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Nick Redfern: U.S. Government Could Be Working with Ancient Astronaut Theorists on Immortality Elixir

2/28/2015

73 Comments

 
Nick Redfern’s prose is clunky, and he has an infuriating habit of writing articles in a disorganized and roundabout style that serves only to obscure what ought to be clear. Sometimes I think he is simply a bad writer, but more often I think that it is an intentional affectation designed to allow him to hide the thinness of his research and the threadbare nature of the stories he retells. Reading his recent article on an alleged U.S. government immortality research program derived from Mesopotamian technology left an impression that there was more to the story than the facts allow, and I think that was Redfern’s goal.
Redfern begins by telling his readers that he often receives information from tipsters whose stories can’t be verified. Since Redfern has run out of alien claims that pass even his low threshold for verifiability, he wants to share a story he admits is nothing but hearsay. He does not, however, identify the person or persons who shared with him the claim that the U.S. government brought top scientists to Utah to work on ancient astronaut immortality technology. In fact, he goes out of his way to use the passive voice to avoid even hinting at the origin of the story, saying only “it was told to me” in 2012. Without that key piece of information, the only real interest the story holds is how it reflects the prevailing currents of fringe history. And you know what that means: The Nephilim!

According to Redfern, his anonymous informant told him that the story begins with the invasion of Iraq in 2003, but Redfern declines to provide the kind of details that would be necessary to evaluate the claim. After the discovery of unnamed ancient “things” in Baghdad (what, when, and where are unspecified), the U.S. government called together scientists, theologians, historians, and archaeologists in Utah and forced them to sign nondisclosure agreements. Their absence from society apparently went unnoticed, and Redfern never bothered to look to see if there was a period between 2003 and 2010 when so many prominent people went missing for weeks or months at a time. The team of experts allegedly looked into monatomic white powder gold, the fictional substance alleged by ancient astronaut theorists to be the food of the Anunnaki space aliens.

Back in 2013, I explained the ridiculous origins of this fringe history staple:
The claim […] probably derives from alchemy’s alleged aurum potabile, or drinkable gold, promoted by Paracelsus in Treasure of Treasures and other works in the sixteenth century. He claimed to have invented aurum potabile and he believed it to be the elixir of life, a cure for disease, and a path to immortality. The occultist Manly P. Hall adopted aurum potabile into his system via a secondhand summary of alchemy from a Victorian textbook, and from there it entered occult circles, where it sits today.

This substance, in turn, was inspired by the idea of colloidal gold, a suspension of gold nanoparticles used in making colored glass since antiquity, with which it became confused by modern alternative health practitioners who pass off colloidal gold as extraterrestrial monoatomic white gold. The solution can be stirred to form a precipitate of gold atoms, which must be the “monoatomic” gold of occult theory, though technically the nanoparticles aren’t single atoms, as I understand it. One gold atom is 0.135 nanometers wide, while colloidal gold nanoparticles range from 5 to 1,000 nanometers in size.
There is no monoatomic white gold powder and never has been, but its identification in fringe circles with Hermes Trismegistus and the philosopher’s stone allows certain fringe types to fold it in not just to Sitchin’s gold-mining Anunnaki from Nibiru but also to Enoch and the tablets of wisdom, since Enoch and Hermes are often identified with one another in medieval lore. The most extreme version of the white powder myth alleges that Enoch transmitted the gold-making method down his lineage to Solomon, who kept it in the Temple. The Essenes took it to Qumran after the destruction of the Second Temple, eventually using the secret of the gold to counterfeit Jesus into a god by giving him Anunnaki superpowers.

Redfern alleges that his unnamed source told him that the monoatomic gold project utilized the talents of biologists and biblical scholars, who worked together to apply ancient texts to modern science in the hope of duplicating pre-Flood biblical lifespans. “And learned souls in the fields of none other than ‘ancient astronauts,’ and the Bible’s legendary ‘men of renown,’ crossed paths with demonologists.” This is for me the silliest line, if only because it posits that the same people who assert the existence of government conspiracies to suppress the truth are also participating in government conspiracies, adding another layer of conspiracy—and doing so with other conspiracy theorists who believe in different conspiracies! Could you imagine Giorgio Tsoukalos holed up in a secret bunker trying to decode ancient texts for the U.S. government while L. A. Marzulli rants about Nephilim and a demonologist tries to summon the Old Ones?

It’s rather a cornucopia of fringe history claims, though: demons, ancient astronauts, the Nephilim… all names for the same beings, seen through three different lenses. Once again we see the centrality of Genesis 6:1-4 (and its amplification in 1 Enoch) to the fringe history worldview, be it ancient astronaut, alchemical, creationist, etc.

Redfern claims that because his unnamed source asserted that the program failed, it is therefore likely to have actually existed. “Rather ironically, the fact that I was told the project was a 100 percent failure added credibility to the story – for me, at least, it did.” Redfern implies that he “hit a brick wall” in investigating the story, but he declines to share with readers any actual research he did into the allegations, or any information he tried to solicit from his source to help verify the claims. As I mentioned, knowing the identity of some of the “experts” working on the project would, for example, let us cross-reference their public schedules with the times that they allegedly were in Utah translating ancient texts. Redfern declined to take this elementary step, or at least to share with us any attempts that he made to find out the identity of the experts. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would it was because he did not actually do any research.
73 Comments
Mandalore
2/28/2015 02:55:37 am

The Association of Ancient Historians met in Salt Lake City in 2010. This must be his brick wall. By conveniently scheduling conferences these experts can hide their true diabolical intentions to achieve immortality for the government. It seems like it's all true, as I've been told.

Reply
Chewbacca
2/28/2015 03:52:19 am

And Frank B. Salisbury wrote the preface to his book The Utah UFO Display in 2010 in Salt Lake City, Utah

Reply
Only Me
2/28/2015 03:24:33 am

Obviously, the immortality project was shut down in favor of resurrection technology. Gotta protect the multiverse, you know. :)

Reply
Clint Knapp
2/28/2015 03:44:57 am

Nick Redfern; the male Linda Moulton Howe (minus all that former-Miss-Idaho sex appeal)!

Reply
Only Me
2/28/2015 03:55:58 am

*Golf clap*

Nicely done. :)

EP
2/28/2015 05:06:29 am

Plastic surgery has not been kind to Linda... (shudders)

Scott Hamilton
2/28/2015 03:47:30 am

Redfern was told this in 2012 -- funny, that's shortly after he published Final Events, his book that claims there's a secret cabal in the U.S. government that employs Bible experts and demonologists because they believe that aliens are really demons who are stealing our souls to power their ultra-dimensional machines. Complete coincidence, I'm sure. Certainly not someone telling Redfern what he wanted to hear, by combining Final Events with the then hot Ancients Aliens TV series.

In both Final Events and this immortality story I wonder what the heck Redfern thinks a theologian is. He doesn't seem to get that 99% of what theologians do is speculate. It's philosophy. It has nothing to do with getting verifiable physical results.

Reply
Chewbacca
2/28/2015 03:57:58 am

Nick Redfern is a UFO theologian.

Reply
EP
2/28/2015 05:08:06 am

...because he has nothing to do with getting verifiable physical results. ;)

terry the censor
2/28/2015 06:58:15 am

> UFO theologian

If you don't mind, I'm going to use that term -- when applicable.

I was recently arguing with a fellow on Kevin Randle's blog who asserted we know the government possesses a mountain of evidence of alien visitation because we don't have that evidence, ergo, it's hidden (and you can't hide something that <i>doesn't</i> exist, right? Therefore it exists.).

I responded:

"But you cannot infer the existence of a mountainous something by observing nothing. That is not science, it is theology."

Joe S
3/4/2015 02:18:15 pm

He received his UFO Theologian degree at a renowned University cafeteria, just like someone we know did.... :-)

Clint Knapp
2/28/2015 04:14:36 am

I get the impression he likens "Bible expert" to "Occultist" by some strange twist of Theosophical scope; as though to be an expert in the Bible means to have unlocked the secret powers contained therein, or at least have the best possible understanding of how those secret powers work.

Reply
EP
2/28/2015 05:08:57 am

Dude, have you read the Bible? It's basically Necronomicon! :D

Shane Sullivan
2/28/2015 05:28:58 am

My mother's favorite biblical passage is where the stars lead the Magi to baby Cthulhu.

EP
2/28/2015 05:30:31 am

Baby Chulhu: 1D6 Magi per turn :)

Mark link
2/28/2015 04:37:00 am

I really don't get Nick Redfern's popularity. I mean, I know there's a lot of nuts in the Fortean culture, but even a lot of seemingly rational and reasonable fringe types eat up his stuff. Every time he talks about something I actually know something about, I can immediately tell he's not just talking bullshit, but it's *obvious* bullshit.

For example, Body-Snatchers in the Desert, his book about Roswell, alleges it was an experiment by the Nuclear Energy for Propulsion of Aircraft (NEPA) program, using a Horton flying disk with a test reactor suspended from a Skyhook balloon. The "aliens" were actually deformed Japanese PoWs, and they were measuring the effect the radiation would have on them. This is just monumentally stupid in so, *so* many ways, and if he'd bothered to ask *anyone* with a background in nuclear physics - even just a hobbyist - even *Stanton Friedman* - he'd have found out. By that, I mean that even if you believe in a government conspiracy that's mustache-twirlingly evil enough to do that kind of thing, there's still *no point to the experiment* - you could get the same data in much easier ways with much less risk of exposure. But he gets a whole book on this published! I just don't get it.

Reply
EP
2/28/2015 05:22:52 am

"The "aliens" were actually deformed Japanese PoWs"

Funny, that was my mom's hypothesis about Roswell (conditional on the premise that one believes in neither the official story, nor the saucer crash mythology). Deformed heads kinda sorta make sense when we're dealing with high altitudes and Japanese are shorter than Americans...

And no, my mom isn't a fringe theorist. She'd just watched a documentary about Roswell crash and it was her first exposure to the whole phenomenon :)

Reply
Mark link
3/2/2015 06:21:11 am

Japanese PoWs is believable. I mean, I'm not aware of any evidence that that's what happened, and Occam's Razor leads me to think it was probably a balloon. But it's not impossible, and heaven knows our government did plenty of crazy stuff in the Cold War. It's the rest of Redfern's thesis I take issue with. I could write a multi-page essay on all the things wrong with the book, but fortunately Stanton Friedman - who actually worked on the nuclear airplane project back in the day - already has, so I don't have to.

spookyparadigm
2/28/2015 08:43:11 am

There are a lot of reasons (he seems quite personable and has a solid network of friends in the community, he's willing to give tons of interview time to paranormal media in exchange for advertising, despite what one may think of him as a researcher he is clearly a professional when it comes to public speaking and pushing writing jobs out the door, he's English which goes quite a ways in America especially on wooish or geeky topics)

But the main reason I think is that he's one of the few paranormal authors and speakers who successfully emulates the gonzo nature paranormal and I probably should specify UFO writing had in the 1960s and especially the 1970s. If you can successfully tap into that style and evoke John Keel, Jim Brandon, early Loren Coleman, and others who did not claim to know the truth (though they hinted at it), put themselves and their experiences in the forefront, and were willing to bend the self-declared rules of these "fields", there is a niche audience that will support you. By the 1980s American pseudosciences had become much more literalist (mirroring the increasingly conservative culture being driven by politicized religious fundamentalism). Redfern tries to jump back and forth between these worlds.

I don't think I've heard many people praise Redfern's findings (outside of his group of friends). But there seems to be a benevolent tolerance in paranormal subculture for his style. Not his writing style, but the broader personal-professional style he promises to bring to the work.

Regarding the "coincidence" of his book and this topic, I've come to think of there being a Redfern Cycle, the books where he writes about demonic summonings occult government actions, and his other on-spec or isolated books about more mundane government conspiracies, monsters, and the like.

Reply
EP
2/28/2015 11:44:30 am

I came across Loren Coleman's name the other day when I was looking into the Masonic influence on baseball...

Do you know much about the occult roots of baseball? Because it will blow your mind :)

spookyparadigm
2/28/2015 01:04:39 pm

His Twilight Language blog is a thing of ... something.

His earlier books (Mysterious America and others) were fun to read so long as I didn't feel a need to believe them (see Keel). They created a goblin universe around you, but didn't have the crank's insistence that you must believe this important secret of the conspiracy and universe right now or you are a sheeple.

He stopped writing books like that in the 1990s and went materalist sorta, settling on calling himself a cryptozoologist. The weirdness was then condensed in his Twilight Language blog which, well, Tridents.

The Other J.
2/28/2015 07:44:53 pm

EP, I'm currently watching the cricket world cup. Since that's the origins of baseball (apparently the first baseball teams in the U.S. were part of cricket clubs), do those occult origins spread their noodly appendages into cricket? I'm guessing the three stakes of the wicket must represent the trinity, and knocking them down with the ball must represent some kind of satanic sacrifice. And maybe an LBW isn't just a way to get out, but also stands for Lesser Banishing Way, which was of course originally Irish and Hebrew Sumerian.

EP
3/1/2015 02:44:55 am

By the Great Pendragons of Mesopotamia!!!

Mark link
3/2/2015 06:23:25 am

That makes sense. I haven't read Coleman or Brandon yet, but I love John Keel. I don't believe a word of what he wrote, but The Mothman Prophecies is an amazingly well-written novel. Guy could have won awards if he'd published it as fiction.

Salt link
2/28/2015 05:17:03 am

Redfern's "anonymous informant" is probably one of the voices in his head,as are the rest of his "tipsters". That would be the conference to attend. Unfortunately,all the fringe folk with voices in their heads wouldn't be able to find a conference center big enough to hold them.

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Shane Sullivan
2/28/2015 05:20:50 am

If they were searching for white powder, why would they go to Utah, and not Colombia?

Reply
EP
2/28/2015 05:23:42 am

Better yet, Argentina.

Wait, I thought you said "power"... :)

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spookyparadigm
2/28/2015 08:45:23 am

Because the mountains of Utah are covered in pure snow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWkT0g3FrOk

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Shane Sullivan
2/28/2015 02:34:30 pm

I've never seen Better Off Dead. I'm going to keep an eye out on cable, though, 'cause I never don't want to watch a Curtis Armstrong movie.

The Other J.
2/28/2015 07:46:12 pm

You can learn a lot about French culture from Better Off Dead.

Bob Jase
2/28/2015 06:55:41 am

"The claim […] probably derives from alchemy’s alleged aurum potabile, or drinkable gold, promoted by Paracelsus in Treasure of Treasures and other works in the sixteenth century."

Or, as it is known today, orange juice.

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Crash55
2/28/2015 09:19:18 am

As a government employee I can tell you that all these government research and conspiracy theories are crazy. We just aren't that good

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The Other J.
2/28/2015 08:26:10 pm

Jason, question for ya:

Have you heard of Dr. Pat Sutherland of Canada's Museum of Civilization? She was behind much of the Norse settlement research on Baffin Island. I just saw a CBC episode of The Nature of Things about the Baffin Island research, and she was the central figure in the episode. The episode was only about the evidence that's been uncovered to date, and how it suggests a Norse settlement and trade with the native Dorset culture. It didn't suggest any hostilities.

However, at the end of the episode, they posted a disclaimer that Dr. Sutherland was dismissed from her position at the Museum of Civilization after 30 years of work. On the CBC website for the episode, the only extra information is that all of her research has been suspended, and that she's contesting her dismissal to regain access to her research. Not only that, but her Arctic archaeologist husband was stripped of his emeritus status.

And of course this is the first place I searched for any info on her situation, but didn't see any. On the CBC website, the comments aren't much help. No one there says she did anything wrong, but most blame the Harper government. However, some commenters veer into all-too familiar territory, claiming the Norse were everywhere in North America, and Stephen Harper orchestrated Dr. Sutherland's dismissal because he's afraid her research would prove that Norway had a claim on Canadian territory. (Which I guess raises the question -- if that's the case, don't the Norse also have claims on every place they visited around the Mediterranean and the rest of Northern Europe? I don't get it.)

A little more digging revealed that a couple years ago she was interviewed by CBC Radio's As It Happens, where she said her findings weren't consistent with the British-centric narrative of the Canadian Arctic, and she questioned if that had something to do with her dismissal:

"But in her interview with As It Happens, Sutherland argued that government funding was now being directed into those research projects such as the Franklin expedition that 'reflects the current government’s interest in sovereignty, the military and in Canada’s historical ties to Britain. I think that’s front and centre on government’s agenda and not other projects.'" (Ottawa Citizen)

After that aired, the museum contacted As It Happens and said she and her husband were dismissed after an 18-month long investigation into harassment claims, but refused to comment any further. She's still an academic, working as a research fellow with the University of Aberdeen.

Ottawa Citizen story: http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/history-museum-says-famous-arctic-researcher-fired-for-harassment

Globe and Mail story: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/museum-reveals-researcher-was-fired-for-harassment-after-cbc-interview/article21965542/

Anyway, I thought you might have seen all this before, and if not, might be interested in it.

The episode is called "The Norse: An Arctic Mystery," and the CBC site for the episode is at http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/episodes/the-norse-an-arctic-mystery. If you care to watch it and can't see it there, you can see it at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoG5C1rflTs.

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EP
3/1/2015 10:01:42 am

LOL at CBC's lame excuses. "The producer had gone home" my ass.

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Jamie Eckles link
3/1/2015 10:10:30 am

I saw that show, and while a lot of her research is available online I was disturbed about her dismissal, for a very unexplained "harassment". I'd love to see Jason look into this as well. Pretty messed up that after 30 years of hard work they would just try to make her go away. I hope she wins her case.

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EP
3/1/2015 10:33:57 am

If by "just try to make her go away" you mean "dismiss her after an 18-month investigation by an independent third party because she and her husband spent years bullying and harrassing their colleagues", then yeah :)

The Other J.
3/1/2015 06:09:18 pm

She and her husband may be hideous people once you get to know them, we have no idea. But one consequence of so little information coming out is the kind of nationalistic scarifying that we've seen happen in these comments about Scottish Templar Welsh Vikings who have real dominion over Minnesota and New England.

At least with the Baffin Island case, we know the archaeological evidence is real.

Jason Colavito link
3/1/2015 12:37:30 pm

I wasn't aware of the situation before this, but I think it's probably important to note that no one is trying to make her work on the Arctic vanish... The CBC did a documentary about it, after all. It sounds like this was entirely an interpersonal issue.

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Jamie Eckles link
3/1/2015 01:27:13 pm

See, now I tried to find out more about the harassment but I couldn't. Perhaps I didn't search well enough, but I guess we'll know more when she appeals her case.

EP
3/1/2015 01:29:27 pm

Her husband, Robert McGhee, is one of the most renowned Canadian archaeologists. They would have let him keep his Emeritus title unless the case was pretty one-sidedly against him and his wife.

Jamie Eckles link
3/1/2015 03:10:03 pm

Any idea of the nature of the harassment?

EP
3/1/2015 03:24:28 pm

Nothing beyond what's been reported in the media, and they haven't gone into the specifics. Sorry.

Jamie Eckles link
3/1/2015 04:04:51 pm

Thanks!

The Other J.
3/1/2015 05:08:00 pm

Her work isn't vanishing, but she's banished from her research -- which, since it was a government institution, means it probably belongs to them in the first place. The whole thing seems odd.

EP
3/2/2015 03:26:27 am

You're right, the The Other J. Every time a government employee is dismissed for misconduct, the sober minds see signs of government conspiracy at hand :P

EP
3/2/2015 03:42:35 am

Besides, she's not banished from research. She still has her university position. And the government doesn't own the kind of research we're talking about, even when it funds it. They might own the archaeological finds, but that's it.

EP
3/1/2015 09:42:19 am

@ spookyparadigm

Now I recall seeing Loren Coleman's The Copycat Effect in major bookstores... I'd assumed it is just ordinary, harmless pop-psychology stuff, and maybe it is (Simon & Schuster is not the worst publisher out there...). But apparently it has somehow drifted into "synchromysticism" and Tridents. Did he go off his rocker over the last decade, or what? Any idea? Because I'm really not cool with the idea of this guy working on teen suicide prevention...

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spookyparadigm
3/1/2015 11:02:03 am

I have not read his Copycat Effect book, so cannot speak to it, but I assumed it was based on his master's work on suicide clusters.

I was baffled by the turn as well, until last year. Coleman gave an interview with Tim Binnall, and in it Binnall finally got him to explain the whole twilight language thing

http://www.binnallofamerica.com/2014/09/09/loren-coleman-boaaudio/

Basically, it goes something like this

Certain key words or concepts can set off individual acts such as murders. He bases this on his research into suicide clusters, that seeing one suicide or other kinds of imagery or concepts in the media can trigger additional suicides. I think most of us would agree with that, which is why many suicide prevention organizations ask media to downplay suicide reporting. Ok, so far, so good.

He then took that to murders. The history of copycat murders but especially mass shootings in the last 20 years suggests that the model he first developed for suicides applies here as well. One can look at how there was one early school shooting in the 1990s (I want to say in Oregon) that then served as a model for what was to come. Again, most of us would agree on this, and that is why there has been a growing insistence that the media should not constantly cover mass killers as the glorification of them can inspire others. Again, individuals, so far, so good.

Then Coleman leaps to the same approach but for societies. He tries to argue that the same pattern works on terrorist organizations etc.. Here, I think most of us would at best partially agree. Peoplw who share an ideology will likely interpret certain stimuli in similar ways. I can predict with decent accuracy which news stories will be seized upon by wooists based on certain aspects, certain phrases in the reporting etc.. One can do the same thing with political or religious ideologies. Once it gets to actual group actions, I think many of us would generally part ways based on any number of reasons (social dynamics, study of social networks, historical evidence). But while probably not an accurate perspective, it isn't supernatural.

That's where the synchronicity comes in. He then argues, and again I'm paraphrasing from the interview, that since one can see patterns between events and key symbols (or alternatively, apophenia) in the idea of synchronicity, then this suggests the same pattern of symbol inducing effect works at a much grander scale up to and including the universe.

Now interpreting instead of paraphrasing, that sounds to me like attempting to find the face of a god that works in mysterious ways through signs and portents. And before we chastise Coleman too much for it, I'd argue he's just being more explicit and literal in following Fort, or expanding on Vallee's control system. Rather than finding god in ancient scripture, or creating a god through visionary experiences, it is detecting god in mass media. It is a distinctly modern god for a scientific age.

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EP
3/1/2015 11:21:49 am

"And before we chastise Coleman too much for it... It is a distinctly modern god for a scientific age."

You lost me there :)

On a more serious note, that would just make him a Jungian with updated media sensibilities. It doesn't explain Knowles-tier retardedness.

Though I suppose that's always the least interesting thing to explain...

spookyparadigm
3/1/2015 11:31:10 am

Explaining why individual people believe in synchronicity or magically connected world they can only see is pointless. So many people end up this way, it is clearly something that a lot of people just do. Which is plenty interesting, but on the individual level that's like asking why any specific individual middle class man buys a sports car when he hits 50.

The more important thing is understanding why anyone then pays attention to push the material from these individuals. While subjective case-by-case, there has to be at least some base limit for me of successful acceptance of an "alternative researcher," that a press beyond CreateSpace actually publishes them, that someone with an ounce or two of credibility actually promotes their work as good, etc.. Or, as per much of Jason's activity, that some one gives them a tv show.

EP
3/1/2015 11:38:27 am

These guys are WAY sorted, then:

http://thebaffler.com/blog/mouthbreathing-machiavellis

spookyparadigm
3/1/2015 11:50:41 am

Those guys. Yeah, I'm familiar, unfortunately. When people talk about how clean living Hitler was, I think of these guys. I could just assign them as libertarians 2.0, with more money and less attachment to rural white identity. But that bizarre wound-up ubermensch fascist edge of crazy narcissistic shit takes it beyond that.

Of course, reading Jason's reviews, and the responses they provoke, doesn't exactly make one super-confident about democracy and the wisdom of the people.

spookyparadigm
3/1/2015 11:58:21 am

Which I guess is a roundabout way of covering the same territory as the Inebriati

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sSdu3L6PKY

EP
3/1/2015 12:03:56 pm

People like Nick Land are the reason I keep plugging McLuhan as required reading every once in a while.

spookyparadigm
3/1/2015 11:44:05 am

Regarding the scientific god and Coleman not being really to blame

a) One can argue, as you have, he's a more literal jungian. I'd suggest that in addition to that, he's following in the Fortean tradition of elevating anomaly pattern hunting to scholarship.

b) which is what I mean by a god for a scientific age. The synchronicity god reveals itself to its followers/creators through vast amounts of "data" gleaned from mass media and academic publishing, a surplus of information that only emerges after then Enlightenment and is intimately tied to societies that put prestige on inquiry and investigation (rather than just copying old sources). Unlike pretty much every other new religious movement that has the truth revealed to them in a vision, or the Theosophists who claimed to have found ancient truth in texts they "discovered"/invented, the anomaly worshippers of Fort and on creatively produce divine truth. They may believe they are uncovering that truth (be it synchronicity, the origin of visitors in Zeta Reticuli, or the location of R'lyeh) rather than just inventing it, but there is a distinct difference between their framing of that as investigation vs. spiritual or textual revelation. If one were better versed in the history of Christianity than I am, I suspect one could plausibly suggest it has roots in the Scottish Protestant interest in natural history as the revelation of creation, but I'm just stealing what I know about that from Toomey's Conjuring Science.

Reply
EP
3/1/2015 12:01:53 pm

So basically you're saying we shouldn't blame pretentious uneducated half-wits for worshipping their inflamed confirmation bias and its poorly articluated byproducts?

Yes, we should.

What they produce (to say "creatively" leaves the term nealry vacuous) is not "divine truth", but garbage. (Of course, they aren't a priori precluded from producing things of literary value, but it won't be any of the idiots we discuss on this blog.)

I don't quite get your remark about Scottish Protestants. Could you elaborate?

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spookyparadigm
3/1/2015 12:15:26 pm

It's not an issue of blame, but description. They may half-wittedly create bullshit, bullshit that often echoes earlier bullshit in religious traditions. But they create it (if they're honest, and not just plagiarizing), and see that creation through "investigation" as key to what they're doing. What you do with that description of how Forteans work is a different issue.

Re: Protestantism. Like I said, I'm ripping off Christ Toomey's Conjuring Science, which examines three models of science in American culture, the first being a Protestant examination of creation, vs. practical science/engineering as liberating (American ingenuity) vs. a mostly European academic form of theoretical science. His Protestant argument is historically and vaguely sounds like this (descriptive, not explanatory)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merton_Thesis

which in turn is an expansion on Weber.

EP
3/1/2015 12:31:21 pm

It's part cryptomnesia, part... well, consider Tridents. Elementary mathematics tells us that there are only so many ways two curve segments can intersect. There are going to be tridenty things in one's visual field every once in a while. Just like there are going to be round things and yellow things.

As far as the Merton Thesis, the whole point of synchronicity (as understood by Jung, clearing away all the silly bits) is to go beyond the kind of view of nature that it presupposes. And if all you mean is that there is certain isomorphism between the Scottish interest in natural science and pseudo-Jungian morons' interest in coincidences, then that stands or falls with something like the Merton Thesis. The pseudo-Jungian part is trivial.

Also, you mean Toumey, right?

spookyparadigm
3/1/2015 01:00:17 pm

Yes, Toumey, I haven't read it in two years. And no, I don't mean coincidences, but I think I'd just be restating what I wrote earlier to go into it. It's spiritual discovery as informed by a world that values scholarly inquiry. Shitty spiritual discovery and shitty inquiry in the cargo science sense, but still recognizably emulating scholarly inquiry as it was practiced in the 19th century.

Reply
EP
3/1/2015 01:15:30 pm

Ineptly emulating inept impuators ineptly emulating inept emulators... But yeah, fair enough.

Though it should be added that we're not much better than these people if we rest at saying that phenomenon x bears similarity to phenomenon y, without specifying what that similarity is and why it's significant.

In that sense, incidentally, it's certainly true that Jung sincerely aimed to practice scientific inquity (of which he had rather antiquated notions), and that his work on synchronicity has it written all over it. (He really, DESPERATELY wanted to make sure it's scientifically kosher.)

Of course, I doubt many of these people even get the general gist of what Jung was trying to say. We had some particularly special synchromystics attempt to educate us on this blog, as you may recall... MacGregors or something... So they don't get much beyond the fancy terms and the idea that it has something to do with coincidences.

Kinda like everyone who likes to string together almost-coherent sentences purporting to be about "quantum consciousness"...

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The Other J.
3/1/2015 05:55:27 pm

EP said: "Though it should be added that we're not much better than these people if we rest at saying that phenomenon x bears similarity to phenomenon y, without specifying what that similarity is and why it's significant."

I take it you're an academic, and I don't know what your field is. But this description pretty much sums up what it's like teaching undergrads how to analyze and interpret narrative. It's not enough to just notice a pattern; without a clear and identifiable purpose with consequences, those patterns don't mean much. In fact, by the modernist era, you get authors who throw in meaningless patterns just to screw with the reader and the critic (which also happened in the early days of the novel, at least by some like Swift).

That's the thing I find so problematic with the syncromystic stuff -- there's no "so what" being answered, just an apophenic assemblage with a conclusion that's based on exterior material and not warranted by the pattern. The link between the pattern and the conclusion is almost always severed.

One of my favorite such patterns in literature is the way Cormac McCarthy leaves out the apostrophe in all his negative contractions. I haven't (havent) revisited this in a while, but last I checked he's never offered any reason why, and I don't (dont) know if the question's ever been pressed. But it's a good test case to see if students can come up with a decent argument or if they like to jump to conclusions.

EP
3/2/2015 03:35:41 am

Lots of people have experimented with alternative punctuation for all kinds of reasons. In the English literature, the most influential were various modernists (Joyce, Pound, Gertrude Stein, Cummings, etc.). Their reasons may have often been half-baked, but they were usually at least consciously aiming at specific goals. Making written word more faithful to spoken language, visual compactness... that sort of thing.

The same sort of thinking that led many people to falsely believe that the Chinese written langauge is "ideogrammatic"...

Since the 1950s, many (in particular pop) writers have been aping these practices without much critical thought.

Shane Sullivan
3/2/2015 07:34:56 am

Speaking of synchronicity, EP, have you read/are you familiar with Joseph Cambray's Synchronicity: Nature and Psyche in an Interconnected Universe?

I ask because he touches on a lot of the same things you explained to me back when the MacGregors were around. It also helped me to realize that I misunderstood Roderick Main. When Main talks about physics in relation to synchronicity, he's recounting how Jung tried to handle it, not saying that it's actually important to synchronicity as a concept.

EP
3/2/2015 09:34:09 am

What about Cambray? Ask away. Why are you reading all this, anyway?

Shane Sullivan
3/2/2015 02:32:23 pm

I didn't have any particular questions, I just noticed a lot of similarities between the book and your explanation, like Jung's views on the correlation between the mental and the physical.

Why am I reading it? To find out what's so appealing about synchronicity among fringe kooks. I can see the appeal; it allows them to pretend they're being rational, due to Jung's background in science, while still believing in something that feels like magic. Unfortunately, they just wind up confusing it with the latter.

EP
3/2/2015 02:46:49 pm

I looked at Cambray's book a long time ago. It didn't strike me as very good. While it's certanly not kooky, it's kinda flaky.

I don't know what it says about my explanation that it reminded you of it :)

Shane Sullivan
3/2/2015 04:18:54 pm

Oh, whoops, I didn't mean to imply that what reminded me of you was nutty garbage! I was endeavoring to figure out what he likes of David Wilcock saw in synchronicity by actually learning about synchronicity, not by reading the likes of David Wilcock.

But, yeah, I had read some negative reactions to Cambray's book; part of what clued me in to Roderick Main's intentions was that Cambray seemed to be falling into the same trap that Jung had, trying too hard to "show his work," as it were, in the context of other sciences. One of the things that reminded me of you, though, was that Cambray also devoted a fair amount of word-count to Jung's doing so.

Anyhow, don't take it too hard. You fit the guy's entire book into a few blog comments, minus the flake. =P

EP
3/2/2015 04:53:53 pm

Read the chapter on synchronicity in James Astor's book on Michael Fordham. It goes over some of the insider dirt on how the whole thing came about.

Also, Jung totally was part of the US government's flying saucer coverup. I forget, have I shared this with the class? :)

Shane Sullivan
3/2/2015 05:06:26 pm

"Read the chapter on synchronicity in James Astor's book on Michael Fordham. It goes over some of the insider dirt on how the whole thing came about."

Will do.

artbellsguilty
7/23/2016 12:22:11 pm

Nick Redferns popularity can be described easily. He goes on brain dead paranormal shows (c2cam) then he sells his old books whilst teasing at a future book. If it seems to get intrested callers he writes a new book of bullshit based on that

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Kevin Bond
12/13/2017 01:17:21 pm

Relax! - Immortality Elixir is just a legend - I got the Key to Immortality - Staying Absolutely Healthy All The Time - By doing my discovery (just an exercise for a minute a day) - My WVCD - The Weapon of Virus and Cancer Destruction, that cures and prevents any diseases, known on Earth, even Aging and Radiation disease, for every cell of our bodies is shielded 100% from any external/internal (genetic) detrimental impact - I will describe my WVCD to everyone, who sends me an e-check for one million US Dollars - Doing my discovery for just a minute a day, everybody will stay absolutely healthy all the time, living their Endless Lives, for Infinite Health = Immortality - The astronauts intended to be launched into the outer space can rest assured - They will be Infinitely Healthy, Radiation-Proof and Immortal - Like the Gods who created us humans.

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Phillip
12/30/2017 02:35:38 pm

I have been on and off this for years and its become clear that you believe your the only one that is right and everyone else is wrong.

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Kevin Bond
12/30/2017 11:37:39 pm

Look, Phillip, for more than six years now I never got sick even of the Common cold, my blood sugar level is 300 mg/dL (normally a killing level), but I am not sick of Diabetes, for I cannot get sick of it, or of any other diseases - What do you say to that?

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    • Foundations of Atlantis
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    • Television Reviews >
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    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
      • Secret History of Ancient Astronauts
      • Of Atlantis and Aliens
      • Aliens and Ancient Texts
      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
        • Robert Temple
        • Giorgio Tsoukalos
        • David Childress
      • Blunders in the Sky
      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
      • Native American Discovery of Europe
      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
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          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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