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Odds and Ends about Egyptian Legends

7/12/2015

11 Comments

 
Sunday tends to be a pretty low readership day, and this has been a pretty slow week in the world of fringe history. On the plus side, it’s given me some time to do some additional reading, this time of the History of Egypt by Murtada ibn al-‘Afif (Murtadi ibn Gaphiphus), the first Arabic compilation of folklore about Egypt to have been translated into French, and then English. I have had the French edition for a while, but I recently found the seventeenth century English translation, and I am preparing it for a reprint. In the book, written in the thirteenth century, we find pretty much all of the same stories we find in every other Arabic book on pyramids and the Flood, oftentimes word for word identical to the Akhbar al-zaman. However, Murtada offers an interesting bit of testimony that so far as I know wasn’t addressed in Kevin van Bladel’s Arabic Hermes regarding the work of Abu Ma‘shar in developing the myth of the antediluvian origins of the Egyptian pyramids:
Abu Ma‘shar the astrologer, in his Book of Thousands, says that the reason for the building of the Pyramids was the dream which Surid ibn Shaluq saw. He confirms it in his Book of Miraculous Dreams, where he adds that he sent for the priests and soothsayers of his time, and the astrologers, and related to them what he had seen of the descent of the Moon upon Earth in the form of a woman; of the overturning of the Earth with its inhabitants, and of the total eclipse of the Sun; and the dream he had after that: and that the Priests declared to him the coming of the Deluge, whereof mention is made in the Book of the Annals… (trans. J. Davies, adapted)
This is interesting because it confirms that the story of Surid is as old as the parallel story of Hermes, and it suggests that the similarity between the two versions of how the pyramids came to be (or as Abu Ma‘shar would have it, the temples for Hermes and the pyramids for Surid) perhaps followed a line of convergent evolution rather than wholesale revision. It is perhaps interesting to note that Murtada mentions Hermes only twice, once to identify him as an Egyptian king before the Flood, and again to identify him with Idris and Enoch. The Akhbar al-zaman is similarly silent on Hermes. Murtada says, “He it was who foretold the coming of the Deluge, and the destruction of the world by water, which was to come over the Earth.” He adds that Idris-Hermes also led the Sethites in battle against the Cainites in the first skirmishes of a war that would last down to the Flood. This is a late, euhemerized echo of the Watchers-Giants myth, entirely rewritten to remove the magical and the monstrous. Gone are the fallen angels and the giants, even in name. Only two warring tribes remain. Frankly, it is a bit dull.

Another passage in Murtada is of interest in tracing the changes in legend. In giving folklore about sexual immorality, he make an interesting mistake that stands out when we compare his words (left) with those of the Akhbar al-zaman (right), written perhaps 100-300 years earlier:
Murtada
[S]ome entered into the Pyramid with a child to abuse it; and that having committed that sin, there came out against them a black young man, with a cudgel in his hand, who beat them furiously, so that they fled leaving there their food and their clothes. The same thing happened to others in the Pyramid of Akhmim. There entered also into the pyramid of Akhmim a man and a woman to commit adultery therein; but they were immediately cast along on the ground, and died in a frenzy. 



(trans. Davies, adapted)

Akhbar al-zaman
It is said that some men entered the pyramids with a young boy to use him for sex. They saw [the spirit of] a black slave armed with a cane coming at them, and he began to give them terrible blows. They fled immediately, leaving behind their food, their drinks, and some of their clothes. The same thing happened, it is said, to other men in the temple at Akhmim. A man and a woman entered the pyramid to have sex with each other; they were thrown to the ground and seized with a furious delirium that lasted until their death.




(my trans.)
Somehow, the temple (birba) of Akhmim has become a pyramid, while the second part of the story, told first of the Great Pyramid, was applied to the temple of Akhmim! No wonder it was so easy for stories about Surid and Hermes to move between the two antediluvian figures associated with these two locations.
11 Comments
Scarecrow
7/12/2015 11:15:57 am

The connection between knowledge and the pyramids is interesting because within Freemasonry building (albeit in a symbolical sense) is compared with reason. The story of no profane thing (sex) happening in the pyramid is reminiscent of mental purity. Perhaps Hermes, Surid, Enoch were prototypes of the Freemasonic Supreme Being (Great Architect of the Universe).

Reply
Scarecrow
7/12/2015 11:30:43 am

Thrice-Great Hermes would correspond to the three ruffians who tried to steal the secret from H.A.B. - with the "death" being a prerequisite part of initiation (enlightenment).

Reply
Scarecrow
7/12/2015 11:34:13 am

The Holy Royal Arch degree is really just a variation of the Blue Degrees. ie, Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, Master Mason. But it all originates from sunrise-midday-sunset - a belief system which seems to span back thousands of years.

Clete
7/12/2015 05:20:24 pm

Old McDonald, when he had a farm, got a degree from his cow. It was the holy cow degree. He was the second one to receive it. The first was Scott Wolter over a cup of coffee.

Scarecrow
7/12/2015 07:41:02 pm

I don't doubt that it's all ultimately meaningless;

Scarecrow
7/12/2015 07:48:07 pm

Freemasonry in different countries reflected the political society of those different countries - it was mainly something else - but it was attached to those degrees, rituals and beliefs, shared around the world. For example, the political stances of the Grand Orient of France and United Grand Lodge of England are at total odds with each other, yet they share the identical rituals of Blue Lodge Masonry.

Scarecrow
7/12/2015 07:55:07 pm

Within Freemasonic history it is given that the Rite of Memphis and Rite of Misraim were merged together as the Rite of Memphis and Misraim by Giuseppe Garibaldi (1807-1882) - yet you won't find that information in standard biographies of Garibaldi. In its heyday during the 17th and 18th centuries Freemasonry was big with important world figures being members.

Day Late and Dollar Short
7/13/2015 05:41:23 am

"I have had the French edition for a while, but I recently found the seventeenth century English translation, and I am preparing it for a reprint."

Rad. I appreciate the effort you put into translating texts in order to make them available for modern, English readers. Or modern English readers. Whatever.

Reply
David Bradbury
7/13/2015 06:12:59 am

Ah, now I understand your Murtada reference yesterday. He's quite late, circa 1200, so I presume he'll have had multiple texts available to him, and floundered when trying to resolve the similarities and contradictions between them.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
7/13/2015 07:37:30 am

He admits as much: He says he's copying various books, but that some are missing pages or otherwise have unreadable sections! Murtada is quite similar to the Akhbar al-zaman, often word for word, but where they differ, he usually has the inferior reading. For example, he gives the planet Jupiter as the nonsense word Rawis, while the Akhbar gives it as Zaus (Zeus), showing the underlying Greek. But on the other hand, he seems to have had access to some texts that are now lost (or at least untranslated) since he has some stories that I can't find anywhere else.

Reply
David Bradbury
7/13/2015 09:53:46 am

Sounds like he used the Akhbar itself as a source. The R-Z mistake is easy in Arabic, because the symbols Ra and Zay are the same except that Zay has a dot over it.


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    • Cult of Alien Gods >
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    • Foundations of Atlantis
    • Knowing Fear >
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    • Cthulhu in World Mythology >
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          • Contents
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    • Television Reviews >
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    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
      • Secret History of Ancient Astronauts
      • Of Atlantis and Aliens
      • Aliens and Ancient Texts
      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
        • Robert Temple
        • Giorgio Tsoukalos
        • David Childress
      • Blunders in the Sky
      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
      • Native American Discovery of Europe
      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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