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On the Anunnaki and the Nephilim

10/17/2013

40 Comments

 
I am told over and over again that there is no danger to crazy theories being broadcast on television since these ideas are just entertainment. And yet last night as the U.S. House of Representatives voted to reopen the government, a House stenographer had to be forcibly removed from the floor after she became enraged and shouted that the U.S. government was a Freemason conspiracy to mock God, for the Freemasons who wrote the constitution “go against God.” While the stenographer’s ideas are more along the Christian conspiracy track, it is nevertheless unhelpful that we currently have had several cable TV programs, notably Brad Meltzer’s Decoded and America Unearthed, pushing the same Freemason conspiracy line, feeding this paranoia.

Ah well, let’s move on to a different kind of crazy: aliens! Yesterday Scotty Roberts suggested that I had misrepresented his views when I described his appearance on Ancient Aliens Monday night as supporting a connection between the Anunnaki and the Nephilim.

As you know, I am always happy to correct my mistakes, but in this case I wasn’t wrong. Here are Roberts’s exact words in his brief appearance on Ancient Aliens:

The Nephilim are described in some translations as being giants. The relationship between the Anunnaki and the Nephilim is really a story of two cultures but are related. The Anunnaki was the god caste who created primordial man to enslave them, while the Nephilim were the offspring of those who came down and intermingled with humans.

Roberts, as you can see, claimed that the Anunnaki and Nephilim stories are related. As I told Roberts, his comments were obviously edited for television, but as presented on the show, he said what I had described.

But I also want to point out that Roberts’s Sitchin-derived ideas are not correct. First, the Anunnaki did not create human beings. In the sixth tablet of the Enuma Elish, it is Ea who fashions humans from the blood of a god and from clay. In the bilingual version of the creation myth (a variant version), it is Marduk who creates mankind. In the late version preserved by Berossus, it is again Marduk (under the Greek name Belus) who creates humanity from the severed head of another god.

None of these gods is among the Anunnaki. Only Zecharia Sitchin made them so. The warrant for this is that the Anunnaki take their name from the sky god An, and thus can be viewed as offspring of the sky. But in Greek myth, the Titans and the Cyclopes are also the offspring of the sky (Ouranos), yet they did not “descend” from outer space but rather were born of the earth (Gaia). Similarly, the Anunnaki are associated with the earth, and texts from Assyria and Babylon tell us that their mother was Ki, the earth itself.

In the Enuma Elish, Marduk assigns the Anunnaki to their stations, half to the newly-created sky above, and half to the realm under the earth. They could not have come down from the sky, for Marduk had only just made the sky from the chaos monster Tiamat. The bilingual version is more explicit. It states of Marduk in line 15: “The gods the Anunnaki he created at one time.” Thus, not only were the Anunnaki not beings from the sky, they were creations of Marduk, just like people. In “Enki and the World Order” (t.1.1.3), Enki is instead in charge of the Anunnaki, and calls himself their leader, but nevertheless makes plain that they are gods associated with earth, not the sky: “For the Anuna gods, Enki situated dwellings in cities and disposed agricultural land into fields.” While technically space gods might also have had vacation homes on earth, Enki, leader of the Anunnaki, comes from the Abzu under the earth, not from the sky. In “The Debate between Grain and Sheep” (t.5.3.2), the Anunnaki are gods of an earthen mound, not from the sky, for the great god An “spawned” them on “the hill of heaven and earth,” meaning that they were born here, not in outer space. In The Epic of Gilgamesh, the Anunnaki are judges of the underworld dead.

We obviously cannot say there was one official view of the Anunnaki, but the general sense is plain: They were not aliens from the skies but rather deities above, in, and under the earth.

So what do they have to do with the Nephilim?

Not a whole lot. The connection comes from some language used in Genesis 6:2: “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.” The idea is that the sons of God (the Elohim—literally sons of the Gods) are cognate with the Anunnaki, for the name Anunnaki means “princely offspring” and thus are seen as the same. Yet the Sons of God are not synonymous with the Nephilim, the giants of Genesis 6:4, who were the heroes of old, the mighty men of renown. The Elohim are the fathers of the Nephilim. It is much later, with the Book of Enoch, that we see the Sons of God as a race of fallen angels who taught humans such aspects of culture as metallurgy and cosmetology (they were really into making women look sexy: 1 Enoch 8:1). It is only still later that the Nephilim, the giants whom God punishes by killing them off with the Flood (Jubilees 7:21–25), become conflated with the Fallen Angels, whom God punishes with eternal torment beneath the earth. The warrant for this, in turn, is the idea that Nephilim means “fallen ones” in a literal sense and thus must refer back to the Sons of Gods, or Fallen Angels, even though they are also their half-divine children.

(For a separate discussion of the Nephilim, see my previous article here.)

The Anunnaki are not known to have mated with humans, nor did they teach humans how to do makeup, nor did they defy the will of the chief gods. They are therefore not the same as the Elohim or the Watchers. They are not mortal, nor are they punished with the Flood, so they are not the Nephilim.

The only remaining similarity is the notion of a divine court, which is pretty much the definition of polytheism. The Elohim are often suspected of being the faded remains of a pre-Mosaic polytheist Canaanite pantheon, with greater and lesser gods. In the Ugaritic texts, for example, they are called bn ilm, the sons of the gods, and they meet in phr bn ilm, the assembly of the sons of the gods. One text, cited by Simon B. Parker, suggests that these sons of the gods mated with human women to create the semi-divine kings of the world, a motif also found in the Epic of Gilgamesh, where Gilgamesh, a king, is two-thirds divine and one-third man. His mother was the goddess Ninsun, who was, again, not among the Anunnaki. (Her father was An, like the Anunnaki, but her mother was Unas, while the Anunnaki were born to Ki.) The Jews, in adapting polytheist ideas to a new monotheist culture, demonized the old polytheist gods and heroes as fallen angels and sinners, recognizing their power but only in opposition to God.

So, the question of whether the Anunnaki and the Elohim and/or Nephilim are “related” comes down to whether you think that each culture had its own set of gods and semi-divine heroes, or whether you feel they all sprang from a common source. Either way, the Anunnaki and the Nephilim share virtually nothing in common except for a connection to the divine, which figures as diverse as Perseus, Alexander the Great, the Mayan Hero Twins, the Dogon Nommos, and innumerable others either claimed or had ascribed to them.

40 Comments
charlie
10/17/2013 11:16:23 am

Jason, thanks for clearing this up for me.
Sure puts your old "pal" Giorgio in his place, he claims that Anunnaki means "they who from the heavens came" or so such close to that. I have thought that none of the AAT's on "Ancient Aliens" can or ever could read the ancient texts in the original language or even ancient Greek. I do know you can do so and trust your translations as accurate. You also give references when you cite other translations. The AAT's never do so, because, my opinion, they just make it up as they go. So far the three "new" "Ancient Aliens" that have aired on "History" channel have offered next to zero that is new. Even when it returns to H2 in November, I fail to see how they will be able to get more than the current "new" season out of this crap. What else can they add to this "theory" they have? And, to call themselves "theorists" I think is fraud. The do NOT have a theory, they have a supposition. Realize, I may be off here, I was not a scientist, just a machinist/mechanic with just an AS degree in machine tool technology. I do, however enjoy reading about ancient cultures and belief/myths and I always have enjoyed learning things.
Again, thanks to you for this site and all that you do to educate us and tell the truth about myth and history. Yes, I am a loyal reader and check this site every day. I'm hooked on your site.

Reply
CFC
10/17/2013 11:19:39 am

I'm always so impressed with how careful you are to reference your sources.

Reply
StrongStyleFiction link
10/17/2013 11:44:19 am

Most real historians are. One of my little theories of how Ancient Aliens and America Unearthed have any sort of influence, is due to how most Americans are taught history in public school. History or social studies textbooks rarely site sources or offer evidence to back itself. We believe anything we're told because a lot of us were taught to. Better public education would probably turn these shows into harmless entertainment. But since a lot of people who are fans of these shows probably never read history book other than their school textbooks, they probably think this is credible because someone said it on TV.

Reply
Thane
10/17/2013 12:51:00 pm


Let's not forget the dryness of history classes which is enough to turn people off to history very early on in their educational lives. Personally, I was taught early to look up and research anything that interested me. So, when a youngster watching movies about historical events, I would, during commercial breaks, rush to our set of encyclopedias at home and look up the topic at hand. I learned quickly that most that is presented on TV and movies is entertainment and bears little to no resemblance to actual history.

The internet had the potential of bring lots of good information to more people and so it did in the early days of general access when the 'Net was still dominated by .edu's. Today, however, there is more crap out there that only reinforces the crap people see on TV and in the movites. It's hard for the uninitiated to diffferentiated fact from fiction in such an environment especially if they never learned how to research, test assumptions, think critically, and have been taught to devalue the rationalism and the scientific method.

What does the deconstructionists teach? All truth is personal. Someone else' truth has no more value than your truth.

Varika
10/17/2013 07:06:12 pm

Are you KIDDING? These days, "better education" focuses so much on literature, in the school I student taught in, they only got an hour of social studies a WEEK. And at that, it ALTERNATED with science. Mind, the science kits that the state has created for schools to use is all KINDS of awesome, but the classroom teachers have to leave out so much, I'm not sure the kids even absorb the basics. The rest of the day is spent basically on drill and kill in reading and math. And this isn't kindergarten, it's all the way up through fifth. In third grade, they still were barely even exposed to informational texts!

It's definitely NOT what I was taught were "best practices" in college, and frankly, it has discouraged me away from even WANTING to teach.

Shane Sullivan
10/17/2013 12:18:42 pm

I was wondering who was responsible for the idea that the word "Anunnaki" referred to all Mesopotamian deities. Sitchin's material was where I first heard it, but I've read it in non-AAT literature as well, with every god from Anu to Marduk to Ishtar falling under the heading.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
10/17/2013 02:03:52 pm

I do not know, and I'm not familiar with mainstream literature that says that.

Reply
Shane Sullivan
10/17/2013 04:08:50 pm

I dunno if I'd call it "mainstream", but I read it in a piece of White Wolf's Scion fiction. It didn't seem particularly well-researched (it used an alternative transliteration I've never seen before, "Annuna", rather than the more common alternative transliteration, "Anunna") and counted Shamash, Ishtar and Enki among their number.

Maybe it was artistic license, or maybe the authors read something Sitchin-related and confused it for conventional scholarship. Seems like ZS was the first person to say anything like it.

Etienne Domingue link
10/20/2013 03:40:27 am

Fascinating article, though there are some points which I feel are perhaps a bit confusing. Admittedly, it is a rather complex subject.

In Hebrew scholarship, the term "Elohim" is not taken to mean "sons of (the) God(s)" in any sense other than the etymological one -- as a Canaanite "loanword" which originally meant the "sons of El." The expression which English translations of the Bible render as "the sons of God" is "bnai Elohim" (בני האלוהים); it is more likely this expression which should be understood to designate "the faded remains of a [...] Canaanite pantheon," not so much "Elohim" on its own, although an argument can of course be made for both interpretations (to be used concurrently or not). Consequently, the Nephilim of 1 Enoch are either the third or the fourth generation of the proto-Israelite pantheon depending on one's take on the use of Elohim in the context of Genesis 6. The Nephilim (1) descended from the bnai Elohim (2) and the bnai Elohim from Elohim (3); this is where most religionists would end the genealogy. If "Elohim" is taken to mean a group of deities rather than an abstract term for "divinity," they would be descended from (4) El or an equivalent proto-Israelite deus otiosus.

I've always thought that the contemporary confusion of the Nephilim and the Anunnaki stems from Numbers 13:33, where the Nephilim are refered to as Anakim. It seems to me as though "Anunnaki" and "Anakim" are sufficiently close as to be conflated in the popular imagination.

How you get from the Anunnaki or the Nephilim to ancient astronauts, however, is beyond me.

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Hidden
10/20/2013 08:56:47 am

this is a lot of words and looks interesting but like u i don't have the time to read them... but i have time to write this :D

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Ivar Nielsen link
10/20/2013 08:59:36 am

Regarding Gaia

Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_%28mythology%29

“Gaia, from Ancient Greek Γαῖα, a poetical form of Gē Γῆ, "land" or "earth"; was the goddess or personification of Earth in ancient Greek religion, one of the Greek primordial deities. Gaia was the great mother of all: the primal Greek Mother Goddess; creator and giver of birth to the Earth and all the Universe; the heavenly gods, the Titans and the Giants were born from her union with Uranus (the sky), while the sea-gods were born from her union with Pontus (the sea). Her equivalent in the Roman pantheon was Terra”.

AD: I would certainly reconsider this scholarly misinterpretation; Gaia cannot possibly be “the personification of Earth” and be subscribed specifically to the Earth in the first place. The Earth cannot logically be the creator of “all the Universe”. “Land or earth” should be translated as “soil or firm land” in connection to the creation where “soil” means the “firm elements” from where all firm matter arise in the creation. Here Titans and Giants have the very same meaning as with Jaetter in Norse Mythology. These “lives” in the outermost areas from the Earth and were called Giants because they represent the largest observable structure in the Sky, namely the crescent northern and southern contours of the Milky Way. Visit my website for more information and illustrations.

Regards Ivar Nielsen

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Varika
10/20/2013 09:47:40 am

Certainly the Earth can logically be the "creator of all the Universe," if the premise upon which you are basing your logic on is wrong. If the basic premise is, "Earth is the center of creation," then "Earth created the universe" is not only logical but aesthetically pleasing.

It doesn't seem logical to us, with our modern understanding that Earth isn't the center of ANYTHING, but it's merely an application of the GIGO principle--"Garbage in, garbage out."

In order to MAKE a "scholarly interpretation," my friend, one must understand the concept of CONTEXT. Your claim of misinterpretation is, in fact, taking information out of context, as explained above.

Furthermore, were I you, I'd be real careful about assuming that Titans, Giants, or jotnar represented "structures in the sky." Loki, for instance--son of a jotun representing wildfires and a jotun representing tinder--probably represents fire in some way. Skadi, born a jotun and later marrying into the Aesir, very definitely represents winter! Neither fire nor winter are "crescent northern and southern contours of the Milky Way," nor is either figure particularly associated with any feature of the sky. Likewise, in Greek myth, it is HEROES, not titans and giants, who are associated with the stars.

Please try for some real scholarship next time, not something as made up as the ancient aliens crap.

Reply
Ivar Nielsen link
10/20/2013 10:26:11 pm

Varika;

I´m not taking anything out of context. I´m just analyzing the logics.

- For the sake of arguments, let´s say you’re right about Gaia = planet Earth which supposedly should have created everything else in the known Universe? I don´t think modern science would agree in this and I´m sure the ancient stories of creation would neither. When talking of “primordial deities” we are dealing with forces of creation before even our solar system came to existence.

Again:
“Gaia, from Ancient Greek Γαῖα, a poetical form of Gē Γῆ, "land" or "earth"; was the goddess or personification of Earth in ancient Greek religion, one of the Greek primordial deities”.

“Gaia was the great mother of all: the primal Greek Mother Goddess; creator and giver of birth to the Earth and all the Universe; the heavenly gods, the Titans and the Giants were born from her union with Uranus (the sky), while the sea-gods were born from her union with Pontus (the sea)”.

AD: Reading this carefully, you cannot make the statement that “Gaia is the personification of the Earth”. It is clearly stated in the text: that Gaia is the “creator and giver of birth to the Earth”. The author of this text contradicts him/herself both stating that Gaia = Earth and that the Earth gives birth to everything, including itself. which is completely illogical.

Ivar Nielsen link
10/20/2013 10:26:45 pm

Varika;

I´m not taking anything out of context. I´m just analyzing the logics.

- For the sake of arguments, let´s say you’re right about Gaia = planet Earth which supposedly should have created everything else in the known Universe? I don´t think modern science would agree in this and I´m sure the ancient stories of creation would neither. When talking of “primordial deities” we are dealing with forces of creation before even our solar system came to existence.

Again:
“Gaia, from Ancient Greek Γαῖα, a poetical form of Gē Γῆ, "land" or "earth"; was the goddess or personification of Earth in ancient Greek religion, one of the Greek primordial deities”.

“Gaia was the great mother of all: the primal Greek Mother Goddess; creator and giver of birth to the Earth and all the Universe; the heavenly gods, the Titans and the Giants were born from her union with Uranus (the sky), while the sea-gods were born from her union with Pontus (the sea)”.

AD: Reading this carefully, you cannot make the statement that “Gaia is the personification of the Earth”. It is clearly stated in the text: that Gaia is the “creator and giver of birth to the Earth”. The author of this text contradicts him/herself both stating that Gaia = Earth and that the Earth gives birth to everything, including itself. which is completely illogical.

Jason Colavito link
10/20/2013 11:36:48 pm

Seriously? We're arguing over the logic of a Wikipedia entry? Hesiod, in the Theogony, describes Earth as "foundation of all" (116f.) and describes everything that comes out of the earth: sky, stars, mountains, etc. Please come back when you can make an argument based on actual primary sources, not some Wikipedia writer's half-edited ideas.

Varika
10/21/2013 09:55:42 am

Yeah, seriously, Ivar, you ARE taking things OUT OF CONTEXT. The context in this case is the scientific knowledge of the time. No, modern science wouldn't agree with it. You are totally right about that. However, I HAVE, in fact, read at least some of Aristotle's De Physica, if in translation, and the man flat-out SAYS that the Earth is the center and source of creation. You've heard of Aristotle, right? One of the great Greek philosophers and scientists? TRY to imagine, if you can, a world without telescopes. A world without even standard measurements, thanks! They didn't know what a solar system was. They didn't know what stars were. They did not have the kind of knowledge that we, today, think of as "basic" knowledge. Thinking that they did is a logical fallacy common to modern folk--particularly ones who are ignorant in the field of history. Ancient creation stories say all KINDS of things that flatly contradict modern science. Judeochristian mythology says that the universe was created in seven days by way of God doing things like creating the earth BEFORE creating the sun, moon, and stars. Norse myth says that the world was created when Odin and his brothers killed a giant that was licked out of ice by the primordial cow, if you want a tale that's REALLY out there violating all known science!

Your logic is bad because your premises are bad. "I don't believe it, so someone else wouldn't believe it" is not a statement of logic, it is a statement of faith. By saying "modern science says, so ancient man wouldn't," you are creating a false equivalency. Sorry, but FAIL on your part.

Leslie
10/20/2013 07:19:34 pm

"First, the Anunnaki did not create human beings."
No, this false. The Igigis worked, but became fed up and complained. therefore the gods, annunakis created the human, and the humans continued to work. You read Stephen Bertram -Handbook to life in ancient mesopotamia". The writer is not AA theorist, but he's says too this.

Annunaki and Nephilim is similar? Yes. Read this book: Biagio Russo- Schiavi degli Dei. He's writing the relationships, matches, grammatical relations.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
10/20/2013 11:33:22 pm

Actually, you have misread Bertram. He uses the passive voice ("humans were created...") in his entry on the Igigi and does not list the Anunnaki as the creators. As I said, the ACTUAL MESOPOTAMIAN TEXTS list the actual creators of humans, which trumps any secondary opinion.

Reply
Ivar Nielsen link
10/21/2013 03:40:29 am

Jason, you wrote:

“Seriously? We're arguing over the logic of a Wikipedia entry? Hesiod, in the Theogony, describes Earth as "foundation of all" (116f.) and describes everything that comes out of the earth: sky, stars, mountains, etc. Please come back when you can make an argument based on actual primary sources, not some Wikipedia writer's half-edited ideas”.

AD: Do you really mean that “sky and stars” came out of the Earth?

- I was really criticizing the Wikipedia interpretation, didn´t I?

Besides this, lots of other authors also get it wrong, inclusive those who have interpreted Hesiod - or maybe he himself got it wrong interpreting other authors.

THE COSMOGONY
[116] Verily at the first Chaos came to be, but next wide-bosomed Earth, the ever-sure foundations of all the deathless ones who hold the peaks of snowy Olympus, and dim Tartarus in the depth of the wide-pathed Earth, and Eros (Love), fairest among the deathless gods, who unnerves the limbs and overcomes the mind and wise counsels of all gods and all men within them. From Chaos came forth Erebus and black Night; but of Night were born Aether5 and Day, whom she conceived and bare from union in love with Erebus. And Earth first bare starry Heaven, equal to herself, to cover her on every side, and to be an ever-sure abiding-place for the blessed gods.

AD: Can you please tell me what these sentences cosmologically mean:

Was Earth the second to be created in the creation? What is the “wide-bosomed Earth”? What is (the dim Tartarus in the depth of) “the wide-pathed Earth”? Gave Earth first bare to the starry heaven?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
10/21/2013 03:47:19 am

Hesiod states that Chaos gave birth to earth, which is "wide bosomed" because it is broad and fertile. The earth then gave birth to the heavens, which were envisioned (as Homer says) as a large metal dome that emerged from the earth and covered it as a shield. Tartarus is the deepest underworld, the darkest hole beneath the earth.

I take it you aren't much for the Greeks' poetical language. The specific phrases you object to were created to both be poetic and to fit the meter of Greek poetry as standard metrical feet. Thus, for example, is Athena "grey-eyed."

Reply
Ivar Nielsen link
10/21/2013 04:06:39 am

Jason;
I´m having no troubles with poetical language. My problems are more that when I read an ancient or historical cosmogonical explanation I interpret this as cosmological facts that can be logically explained if one connects the right telling to the right cosmological object or phenomenon. And it seems to me that much poetry arise because the original logical meaning have been lost.
Well, never mind.

Jason Colavito link
10/21/2013 04:51:30 am

The trouble seems to be that you want to match ancient poetry to modern scientific understanding of the universe instead of taking what was written on its own merits. Hesiod didn't know anything about outer space. Homer thought a big bronze dome encased the earth. They were not privy to modern cosmology.

Ivar Nielsen link
10/21/2013 08:13:09 am

Jason, you wrote:

"The trouble seems to be that you want to match ancient poetry to modern scientific understanding of the universe instead of taking what was written on its own merits".

AD: On the other hand the trouble could well be that modern humans have big difficulties recognizing the real cosmology in the ancient stories of creation because they have no clues that these stories belongs to the Milky Way Mythology as for instants is the clear case with the telling of the Egyptian Hathor:

“Hathor, along with the goddess Nut, was associated with the Milky Way during the third millennium B.C. when, during the fall and spring equinoxes, it aligned over and touched the earth where the sun rose and fell. The four legs of the celestial cow represented Nut or Hathor could, in one account, be seen as the pillars on which the sky was supported with the stars on their bellies constituting the Milky Way on which the solar barque of Ra, representing the sun, sailed”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hathor#Relationships.2C_associations.2C_images.2C_and_symbols

As you can understand, there is a big difference taking the stories “on its own merits” when they clearly have significant cosmological meanings. And my first post about Gaia tells the very same story as with Hathor. Gaia is NOT the Earth but the Milky Way Great Mother Goddess who gives birth to everything in the ancient known Universe.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
10/21/2013 08:16:53 am

I knew I recognized your name from somewhere. You're the one-issue guy who thinks all world religion comes from the Milky Way, facts be damned. Well, good luck with that.

Reply
Ivar Nielsen link
10/21/2013 08:27:43 am

Jason,
Thanks for your good wishes.
At least I´m totally with you regarding the "Ancient Aliens" rubbish which also is a result of scholars and laymen not recognizing the real cosmological knowledge of the ancient Myths of Creation.

BigMike
10/21/2013 06:30:47 pm

Okay, there are some things that can't be explained with outright logic. Faith, for instance. Gaia being the EARTH and MOTHER is a matter of ancient Greek FAITH. While the Ancient Greeks believed that the gods were real physical beings that walked amongst them and lived atop Mount Olympus, there was always another aspect to them; a supernatural or metaphysical aspect.

Gaia CREATED the Earth and in so doing placed her essence into it to BECOME it. In that way she had the physical body she started with and was, at the same time, the whole planet. Then, being one with the Earth she created (or helped create) the rest of the universe (the dome of the sky, the stars, clouds, mountains, etc.).

This is no different from how Poseidon was a physical being but was also the every sea and ocean. The divine nature of deities defies logic.

Greek Mythology is full of that kind of metaphysical connectivity. I mean Zeus could turn himself into a swan in order to have sex with one chick while at the same time watching the entire world through the eyes of his golden eagle, hurling thuderbolts from storm clouds, and speaking to people through the statues in his temples.

Reply
Ivar Nielsen link
10/22/2013 03:45:33 am

@Varika,
Regarding this:
"Judeochristian mythology says that the universe was created in seven days by way of God doing things like creating the earth BEFORE creating the sun, moon, and stars".
AD: Here we have the exact the same scholarly problem as with Gaia = Earth. This first sentence of the biblical creation should be read as "soil/firm matter" and NOT interpreted as the Earth. Then it of course makes both mythologically and scientifically sence.

Reply
Ivar Nielsen link
10/22/2013 03:48:13 am

@ BigMike, thanks for your reply.

I have to repeat this:

Gaia: “Gaia was the great mother of all: the primal Greek Mother Goddess; creator and giver of birth to the Earth and all the Universe; the heavenly gods, the Titans and the Giants were born from her union with Uranus (the sky), while the sea-gods were born from her union with Pontus (the sea). Her equivalent in the Roman pantheon was Terra”.

AD: Here it is clearly and factually stated that “Gaia is the giver of birth to the Earth”. If Mother Goddess Gaia is interpreted scholarly as being the Earth, then the logics should be that: “The Earth has created the Earth” which of course makes no sense at all.

On the other hand, if Gaia represents the Cosmic Mother “she” of course has created the “firm matter/soil” that makes up the Earth and everything else, as also clearly stated in the text above.

(The very same misunderstanding finds place in the biblical story of creation where some scholars claim that the Earth is created twice, but this first sentence of creation should be interpreted as “soil/firm matter” from where the Earth later on is created).

- As it is the case with the Egyptian Hathor, Gaia also represents the Milky Way contours at the southern hemisphere where the galactic centre correspond to the mytheme of “the Cosmic Womb” on “the Great Goddess” Milky Way figure from where everything is created in the ancient known Universe. Link: http://www.native-science.net/MilkyWay.MotherGoddess.htm

- Of course, in other cultural stories of creation, the Milky Way figures have many other imagined names originated after both humans and animals.

Regarding Zeus:

You wrote: “I mean Zeus could turn himself into a swan in order to have sex with one chick while at the same time watching the entire world through the eyes of his golden eagle, hurling thunderbolts from storm clouds, and speaking to people through the statues in his temples”.

AD: What a strange story, yes? But what if this is a “real” observation? Find the star constellation of Cygnus and see where it is located. Image: The northern Milky Way Contour and the Star Constellation of Cygnus - http://news.cnet.com/2300-11386_3-10016853-10.html - you can also observe a part of the Milky Way where it splits up in 2 and right where it splits up, you´ll find Cygnus. Compare this to: The Greatest God in Heaven - http://www.native-science.net/MilkyWay.GreatestGod.htm - and you´ll most likely have the origin of this story. Here you can see a great man (god) seemingly having sex with a swan and at the same time “he” is revolving around (omnipresent) the northern celestial pole, watching the entire world.

All in all I´m very sure that modern science underestimates especially the many cultural Stories of Creation, simply because “the world” has forgotten to connect the right tellings to the right observations, objects and phenomenon’s.

Regards Ivar

Reply
The Revealing link
10/22/2013 08:51:49 am

Apparently, Annunaki is not a single race, but rather much like those of us residing on planet earth, are a consortium of various race mixes. Many of us, mainly those with a predisposition towards law enforcement and the military mentality have higher than average Nephilim DNA; http://focusonrecovery.net/mattersoffaith/Bigfoot.html

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Ronan Coghlan link
10/25/2013 04:31:51 am

I would like to comment on the idea of "Elohim" being plural. While it is certainly plural in form, the Hebrews used this form as a singular to mean "a very great god". It is used by them not alone to indicate the Hebre God, but also to indicate Chemosh, the god of the Moabites, and Beelzebub. In all these cases only a singular god is meant, the plural form indicating his prominence. In additionn behemoth, the name of the [single] huge animal is a plural noun not to indicate plurality but to indicate size.

Reply
Ivar Nielsen link
10/25/2013 04:56:22 am

@Ronan Coghlan,
Your information’s certainly fits my perception of how 2 primordial, major and supreme "beings" of Creation stems from the largest (gigantic, titanic) observable structure in the Sky, namely the Milky Way contours where a female looking figure (The Great Goddess) can be seen on the southern hemisphere - http://www.native-science.net/MilkyWay.MotherGoddess.htm) - and on the northern hemisphere a male looking Milky Way figure (The Great God) resides - http://www.native-science.net/MilkyWay.GreatestGod.htm - These 2 Milky Way figures represents globally and mythologically the greatest deities which in some cultures also are imagined as the prime creator animals. These prime deities are the common heritage for every culture all over the world, which of course is why many Stories of Creation are so alike all over the world.
So we all have the same common religious origin on Earth, simply because we all live on the same Earth, in the same Solar System and in the same Galaxy in the same Univers and therefore we all have the very same Story of Creation.

Reply
jordan ivanella
10/25/2013 07:15:55 pm

Is anybody wondering what the really bright star that appears at sunset everyday... and sets with the sun as though its following it. Nibiru... the Annanaki returning after 3600 years? Why is everyone taking about everything exept that?

Only Me
10/25/2013 11:17:46 pm

Because planets don't appear as really bright stars, much less during the day. Nibiru is supposedly a planet.

Ivar Nielsen link
10/26/2013 12:20:50 am

@Only Me,
You wrote: "Nibiru is supposedly a planet".

Quote from http://www.saturn-myth-delusion.net/nibiru.htm:
" Conclusion

1. Both Marduk; Tiamat and the subject of Nibiru are all very directly connected to the contours of the
Milky Way River and to the star constellations.

2. Marduk is the northern hemisphere ruler of the Milky Way River contours.

3. Tiamat is the southern hemisphere ruler of the Milky Way River contours.

4. In the enumerations, Nibiru is mentioned at different astronomical locations in conjunction with the positions of stars and planets.

5. Nibiru is connected to "crossing" or "point of transition", especially of rivers (i.e the Milky Way River).

6. “Nibiru is Marduk's star-(marking point) which the gods (Star constellations and Milky Way) in heaven caused to be visible. Nibiru stands as a post at the turning point” (i.e. “as the turning point of the North Pole”), of which all stars – and the Milky Way figure of Marduk – seemingly are revolving.

7. “ . . . because everyone above and below asks Nibiru if they cannot find the passage” i.e. Nibiru as the North Pole area/star are used both as a mytho-cosmological as well as a maritime navigational orientation method.

Nibiru is the celestial north pole point and not a star or a planet.

Reply
Only Me
10/26/2013 01:23:23 pm

My response refers to the claim made by Zecharia Sitchin. Obviously, you are of another opinion as to what Nibiru is. I don't believe it exists, so whether star, planet, or cosmic basketball, until it can be proven real, neither claim means much to me.

Reply
Ivar Nielsen link
10/26/2013 09:01:00 pm

@ Only Me,

- It is very difficult to understand the mythical language if it is taken as just a fairy tale, hearsaying or as a literary truth. One has to put the mythical “persons” and symbols and telling into some kind of context, otherwise it all goes very wrong and astray.

The numerous mythical Stories of Creation all deals with concrete cosmological and astronomical knowledge first about the primordial 4 (5) elements and their creative qualities and how these elements come together and create the luminous light in our Milky Way from where everything else in our galaxy is created. The galactic contours on both hemispheres are the origin of the “supreme primeval deities” in the human mind.

As mentioned above, Marduk represents the northern hemisphere Milky Way contours that seemingly revolve on the night Sky. This revolving centre, the north celestial pole, is given the name “Nibiru” in the Sumerian mythology.

The whole idea of Ancient Aliens stems from taking the myths literary and technologically instead of cosmological and astronomical as real observable facts.

Only Me
10/27/2013 06:05:37 am

Context, Ivar, context.

Jordan asked if the "really bright star" arising with, and following, the sun was Nibiru...and if it meant the Anunnaki were returning after 3,600 years. The only fellow that proclaimed the existence of Nibiru as a planet, traversing our solar system every 3,600 years was Sitchin. He also said that when it returned, the Anunnaki would, also.

I DON'T BELIEVE this BS, as Jason has shown the appropriate texts pertaining to Sitchin's fantasy repeatedly. While I respect your views, I DON'T BELIEVE Sitchin's claims.

I was simply answering Jordan's question within the context it was asked.

jordan
10/28/2013 05:34:52 pm

Ok.. so the 20000 clay tablets that clearly state an epic history of our earth an all the living things on it including descriptions of gods landing their. Ships on earth an what a pain in the ass it was. is not enough evedence for you. The fact that homo erectus took 2 million years to figure out how to attach a stone to a stick an hunt , from that point he magically forms a civilized culture w domesticated animals and crops to landing a shuttle on the moon in 50 thousand years is not enough proof.. all the storys told in the bible are water'ed down versions of the sumarian tablets twisted in a desicrating way to manipulate mankind oved the past 1500 years is not enough proof for you.. its not our falt that we have been compleatly an utterly fucked over, lied to an basically forced to love a god an religion that basically has no comunication directly. The God who never was around.. we have been fooled by them just as much as the corporations have rapped us of our siple rights as to be with our children as they grow from infancy to young atults... because we got to work a bizillion hours just to eat an have shelter.. the same diciet from our suposed government who had the rocks to implode three. Of the trade center buildings with fuckin people in them... yes there is proof .. just scratch at the surface an dig a little.. you will see man, we have been raped as a people..
Yes there is a star that pops out when the sun is setting.. its not even dark its like twilight an you can see it clear as day.. since 2006 is when I started to notice. . Nibiru is not jus a planet it orbits its own sun type star and they both are on their way.. we ow it to our selves to question everything.. an to look at the tru motives of people in authority positions or people who have the so called power.. more like invisible bullies.. its our time to rise to the occasion and act.

Only Me
10/28/2013 07:20:39 pm

To put it simply, Jordan, no, there is not enough evidence. I suggest you check out the Ancient Aliens link listed under Collections and Categories to the right of the page. Jason addresses this particular issue, the influence and methodology of Sitchin, and provides detailed analysis *using the original texts* under multiple headings.

It's perfectly okay to question, but you must realize that there is a limit. If you read and understand the facts presented, but still choose to believe that centuries of cumulative research is wrong, you are free to do so. Just remember, that same freedom to choose belongs to those that disagree with you, too.

the 20,ooo clay tablets predate most versions of Genesis...
3/7/2015 12:59:50 pm

The ending of the Babylonian Captivity
coincides with Cyrus entering Babylon.

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          • W. Scott-Elliot >
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        • The Mutinous Sea
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      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
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        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Remarkable Discoveries Within the Sphinx (Hoax)
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • The Shaver Mystery >
          • Lovecraft and the Deros
          • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
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        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
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        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
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        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • CIA Search for the Ark of the Covenant
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • The Fall of the Sky
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
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      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
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      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
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      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
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      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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