Last month, researcher Chris Aubeck gave an interview to Danish writer Thomas Brisson Jørgensen of the Vomanomalous blog on the subject of UFOs, particularly on accounts of pre-1947 UFO-style encounters with objects from the sky and their alleged occupants. In the interview he discusses some strange stories from old books, though without specific references and links, there is no way for me to identify the stories. Some are quite bizarre, like an old tale of a rocket-like ship from which emerged a being who got into a horseless carriage. If I find myself interested enough, I’ll ask him for the references, but today I am more concerned to discuss some of the broader themes that he discussed in the interview. While we may differ somewhat on whether there is a “real” layer beneath the story of UFOs past and present, Aubeck is admirably working to trace the influence of culture, particularly mythology and literature, on the stories that witnesses have told about things they imagine falling from the sky. In the interview, he notes that much of pre-1947 ufology is bound up in the experience of trying to understand meteorites and interpret them through the lens of the technology and science fiction of the time: “I can see how it overlapped with stories of meteorites, for example. I can see how literature, culture and the advance of science turned many meteorites sightings into UFO stories, including the ones about passengers, or those with strange writing on them.” Many of the stories of meteorites with “writing” were either outright hoaxes or wishful thinking imposed on cracks and fissures in the rock surface. He mentions, too, a Victorian story about a bust falling from the sky, and this recalls the legend told of Pindar that a statue of the Great Mother goddess fell from the sky in front of him. He was giving a lecture on a mountain when “there was heard a great noise, and a flame of lightning was seen descending, and Pindar saw that a stone image of the Mother had come down at their feet, and the oracle ordained that he should set up a shrine to the Mother” (trans. Jane Ellen Harrison). It sounds for all the world like a meteor that someone fancied resembled the rough icons of the gods used in the time before realistic statues superseded them. But many scholars consider the story to be a dream, and there lies the rub: In the old days, when the nights were dark and our minds weren’t filled with images from TV and movies, the accounts of dreams speak to a depth and realism that our sleep-deprived minds don’t seem to replicate as frequently. (Of course, in 1882, Popular Science attributed crazy dreams to theater visits, reading novels, and hearing music, so take it with a grain of salt.) A doctor of spiritualist inclinations named J. Preston Moore wrote about it in 1890, only to lament that the intensity of dreams and their deeper meaning was being lost in the pressures of capitalism and commerce: Without any effort on our part, living landscapes or mountains, hills, valleys, and plains, with running streams of water, and animal and vegetable life, as realistic and active as anything we see when awake, rise spontaneously in our dreams; and we never for a moment imagine that we are not in their midst and form part of them. No wonder the simple savage finds it easier to believe in the separation of soul and body, than to doubt his active participation in the chase of his dreams. There is ample testimony to the same effect in the Victorian literature. It goes back much farther—Marcus Aurelius, in his Meditations, wrote that the gods gave him medical advice in his dreams (1.17) and spoke, albeit metaphorically, of the difficulty distinguishing between dreams and reality (6.31). In his 1829 book about Sir Thomas More, who died in 1535, the Romantic poet Robert Southey claimed to have met More’s ghost and wrote of how dreams might be mistaken for reality but reality could never be mistaken for dreams: It was no dream, of this I was well assured; realities are never mistaken for dreams, though dreams may be mistaken for realities. Moreover I had long been accustomed in sleep to question my perceptions with a wakeful faculty of reason, and to detect their fallacy. But, as well may be supposed, my thoughts that night, sleeping as well as waking, were filled with this extraordinary interview; and when I arose the next morning it was not till I had called to mind every circumstance of time and place that I was convinced the apparition was real, and that I might again expect it. It's pretty obvious that it was a dream, he knew it was a dream, and convinced himself otherwise. In fact, in a review of his book published shortly after the book, the reviewer wrote exactly that: From all which an ordinary reasoner would infer, that this interview, being a dream, had been mistaken for a reality. The Doctor proceeds in another way. He informs us that he was well assured it was not a dream, because realities are never mistaken for dreams; that is, he first assumes that it was a reality, and then argues most cogently, that, this being the case, it could not possibly be a dream. To make the matter still more clear, and to convince us invincibly that it could not have been a dream mistaken for a reality, he adds that dreams are sometimes mistaken for realities: that is, that what we suspect to have taken place in this instance, does sometimes take place. A peculiar and extraordinary mode of arguing! Yet today we see much less consideration of dreams as being convincing as a counterfeit reality. Whether this is due to our dreams being less grounded in reality due to exposure to media, or whether we are too sleep-deprived to have as many of these intense dreams, or whether we simply deny the intensity of dreams out of a misplaced desire to appear hyper-rational, I cannot say. But I think it’s important to recognize that dreams can be so intense and convincing that people have felt compelled to write of them as though they really happened. And here is the bigger point I think is worth making: Studying UFO sightings in a vacuum will lead you down the primrose path. Studying only the category of UFO sightings is pointless, since it lacks context. Even studying sightings in the context of the art and literature of the time is only a partial solution. Instead, you have to understand the whole culture, as best we are able, to find the possibilities that might otherwise be invisible, like, in this case, the testimony that intense dreams were often mistaken for reality in those days, a concept largely alien to us, for whom any confusion between the two is subject to embarrassment and apologies. That’s why it was interesting to see Aubeck talking about the process he and Jacques Vallée used to try to distinguish between different categories of supernatural encounters when writing Wonders in the Sky: I mean, when I was writing Wonders in The Sky with Jacques, we argued a lot about this. He would say “look, here's a classic close encounter case” and I would say, “but this sounds more like a ghost to me” and then he would present another case, and it would sound to me like a vision of the Virgin Mary. Why try to argue that a virgin is a ufonaut or whatever? I just can’t understand that approach. And in the end we actually agreed to take out a lot of these more ambiguous close encounter stories. In so doing, they accidentally stripped out the broader context and the continuum of experiences that reflect the broader culture that informed the subset of epiphanies that we would today call UFO sightings but in that time were part of a greater supernatural worldview.
45 Comments
William Fitzgerald
12/4/2019 11:54:56 pm
We seek enchantment to find meaning in life and death. Death is inevitable, but also deeply feared. However, might will die willingly if their death has meaning; when enchanted we understand ourselves outside of time, in that the longevity of any life is short compared to what our death will mean. That's why many fight for a causes they truly believe, knowing they could very well die because of it (and often do). That is the power of enhancement.
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meaning in life and death
12/5/2019 08:09:48 am
Life is an accident
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William Fitzgerald
12/5/2019 09:14:34 am
If there is no "before life" nor "after life" then there can be no life. A life is a product of what came before and defined by the legacy it leaves.
meaning in life and death
12/5/2019 09:16:48 am
Parapsychologists have tried to prove the existence of life after death by unlocking padlocks from beyond the grave. LOL.
Meaning in an inevitable death
12/5/2019 09:19:32 am
"When death smiles at you in the face, what else can you do except to smile back"
Unselfish gene
12/5/2019 12:20:19 pm
You dudes ought to read Home With God by Neale Donald Walsch. Of course life is eternal.
Meaning in an inevitable death
12/5/2019 12:55:06 pm
Stupidity is eternal, that can never die
Timothy Newman
12/6/2019 04:18:25 am
"It is not dead that can eternal lie,
Chris Aubeck
12/5/2019 04:44:15 am
Hi Jason. We did not “accidentally” strip out sightings that might have illustrated the wider Fortean landscape of our ancestors. I wanted to avoid them completely because my primary goal was to focus on UFO reports. I originally intended to make a book of around 250 interesting cases with quotes, references and some analysis. However, as a collaborative effort the result was quite different, as you know.
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UFO reports
12/5/2019 08:19:55 am
UFO reports are all lies, lies, lies and what we witness is how sincere and faithful true liars can be.
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WW3
12/15/2019 02:30:07 am
12/5/2019 08:34:09 am
I don't think we're really disagreeing at all, Chris. Every subject has to be defined, or else it quickly encompasses the entire universe. My issue is more that the category we today define as the UFO phenomenon is a modern creation made from slicing and dicing a wide range of experiences (real, imaginary, or whatever) into a new set of boxes to fit modern assumptions. I'm interested in the degree to which "UFOs" as a category are created by the categorization we impose on a broader human experience.
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chris aubeck
12/5/2019 09:37:16 am
I have replied to you by email.
chris aubeck
12/5/2019 10:37:34 am
The term “Unidentified Flying Object” is in itself a problem.
.
12/5/2019 12:18:16 pm
"I have replied to you by email."
chris aubeck
12/5/2019 12:20:53 pm
I don’t know what a Neston UFO is but I’ve offered Jason the chance to see an unpublished book chapter on the subject.
.
12/5/2019 12:41:26 pm
"Date: July 1857
Chris aubeck
12/5/2019 12:56:32 pm
Ah yes, thank you. That’s fake, it’s not in Fort at all. I don’t bother with fake hoaxes, that would be like tutting at Fred and Velma while they’re on a case.
Neston Primary Source
12/5/2019 01:01:08 pm
Second hand quote from Charles Fort - does Fort provide a source for that?
NESTON PRIMARY SOURCE
12/5/2019 01:03:34 pm
Source: Tom Slemen, quoting Charles Fort
chris aubeck
12/5/2019 01:13:56 pm
Nobody has a source for it, as far as I’m aware. It just takes typical post-Arnold motifs and strings them together: circular craft, landing legs, Nordic being, the color green, “radioactive” field. It’s set in 1857 possibly to be considered “way way way” older than the 1897 airship wave. I wouldn’t be shocked to learn Tom Slemens didn’t write it either, or that Neston comes from “UFO nest town” (AKA Warminster).
.
12/5/2019 01:18:15 pm
"I don’t bother with fake hoaxes"
Chris aubeck
12/5/2019 01:33:19 pm
"I don’t bother with fake hoaxes"
.
12/5/2019 08:19:20 pm
You're very selective about what made up unsourced stuff you're willing to pretend is sourced.
chris aubeck
12/5/2019 08:43:55 pm
“You're very selective about what made up unsourced stuff you're willing to pretend is sourced.”
.
12/6/2019 03:24:45 am
"Trolls" are the Jews of the 21st Century Reich.
Hey Anonymous
12/7/2019 06:11:07 am
It will soon be time for "born in a manger"
Machala
12/5/2019 09:00:17 am
Chris, I read and enjoyed your collaborative effort with Juan Jose Sanchez Oro. I can't say the same about Wonders in the Sky with Jacques Vallée but that has more to do with the fact that I'm no Vallée fan, finding his incredulity as tedious as his writing style.
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Skeptics
12/5/2019 09:14:34 am
Even skeptics (so-called) hold irrational beliefs.
Skeptic
12/5/2019 08:23:37 pm
Speak for yourself.
Paul
12/5/2019 12:44:44 pm
Soon there will be no such thing as UFO's. Everyone is glued to their smartphone and no one looks at the sky. Maybe there will be an app for that......
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Iskanander
12/5/2019 09:16:46 pm
Hi, Jason.
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Kent
12/5/2019 09:38:32 pm
I noticed "sleep-deprived" X 2 as well.
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Iskanander
12/5/2019 09:45:14 pm
Yeah, got that too.
Iskander
12/5/2019 10:07:15 pm
Oh wait, KENT:
Kent
12/5/2019 11:14:02 pm
In my experience anyone who says "capitalism" is just trying to get laid. This includes Clark Kissinger and Marc Anderson and everyone involved in the "Fill Urine Jars in Campsites" protests, aka "Occupy Wall Street."
Caveman
12/8/2019 04:44:57 pm
Neston is located in The Wirral, in NW England, near Liverpool. They are still seeing UFOs there - https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/17786998.neston-resident-claims-spotted-ufo-hanging-washing/
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Chris Aubeck
12/8/2019 04:47:47 pm
Thank you. Sadly that story isn't from 1857 at all, or in Fort's books. It’s a modern fake given a spurious old date.
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.
12/8/2019 07:20:48 pm
Yet you accept "Hoaxes, jokes, popular songs, dreams, short stories, parodies, pre-Arnold sketches, diary entries, drunken hallucinations, poetry..."
Chris Aubeck
12/8/2019 07:25:47 pm
Yes, very much so. If you’d bothered to read the interview or if you knew anything about me or about UFO history at all, you’d know my focus is always on pre-1947 stories only. The Neston case is post-1947. It contributes nothing to our understanding of how the UFO mythos developed. The “disconnect” is substantial.
.
12/8/2019 09:16:18 pm
If you can't source it how do you know it's post-1947?
Chris Aubeck
12/8/2019 09:37:35 pm
I started looking into the Neston story some time before 2012. The original source said:
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Chris Aubeck
12/8/2019 07:35:25 pm
Let me save you the trouble of carrying on: You’re trying to catch me in some kind of contradiction, on the basis that I’m interested in hoaxes (as well as other kinds of sources) so I ought to be interested in all hoaxes. This clearly stems from your belief that I accept that there’s a physical reality underlying UFO reports, one to do with paranormal or extraterrestrial intervention. However, that’s not my take at all. I like to keep an open mind but I’m not trying to prove or sell a theory involving aliens or souls or psychic powers or even Jungian archetypes. I’m afraid you’re wasting your time trying to catch me out.
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Iskanander
12/13/2019 12:27:32 am
You're all right. You know that?
Reply
chris aubeck
12/13/2019 03:16:57 am
“You're all right. You know that?” Your comment will be posted after it is approved.
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AuthorI am an author and researcher focusing on pop culture, science, and history. Bylines: New Republic, Esquire, Slate, etc. There's more about me in the About Jason tab. Newsletters
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