We begin America Unearthed S01E03 “Great Lakes Copper Heist” with a recreation of some woodsmen felling a tree in Michigan in 1896, filmed in dramatic “old-timey” sepia tone. (Actually, I think it was tinted in post-production from full-color digital video.) The men look at a rock covered in symbols, and we smash-cut to the opening credits. We start at Isle Royale, Michigan, where series star Scott Wolter plans to investigate the Old Copper Culture. The area was copper rich, and Wolter asserts that the copper “disappeared.” I’ve talked about this lie before, when I reviewed Gavin Menzies’ identical claims, derived from Ignatius Donnelly, and it’s no more true today. We hear that 1.5 billion pounds of copper were removed from the area around Lake Superior, but this number is a fraudulent exercise in extrapolation. No source is given on the show, nor could they give one because the numbers come only from alternative speculation dating back to the 1960s. As Dr. Susan R. Martin explained years ago, “The mythic calculations involve the numbers and depths of copper extraction pits, the numbers and weights of stone hammers, the percentage volume of copper per mining pit, the numbers of miners, and the years of mining duration.” It is only by combining and recombining all these assumptions (essentially by picking one’s own numbers) that alternative writers, most notably Drier and Du Temple, generated the 1.5 billion pound claim. Actual estimates of the Copper Culture’s mining are much, much less, thus eliminating the “lost” copper. I can’t say it better than Martin (really, just read her whole page), so let’s let her tell us what’s wrong here: The figures are made up out of thin air and can be sneezed away. That's because no one has a means to measure any of these variables accurately or with any precision. All of these figures are built on ill-constructed estimates. Let's examine the variable "percentage of copper in the trap rock" as an example. Clearly, the actual percentage of copper in rock varies from none (plain old rock) to one hundred percent (Ontonagon Boulder). Additionally, while the course of copper in trap rock is somewhat predictable, the amount of copper isn't necessarily constant or even regular. Many failed mining concerns of the nineteenth century found out this fact of geology the hard way! The counts of copper pits, the sizes of pits, and the weight of removed trap are 1) either arbitrarily-chosen numbers, or 2) variable in reality; despite this they are used as constants in the algorithm. Drier and Du Temple used a constant for copper percentage (error) and then multiply it by an estimated number of pits (error inherent) of a constant size (error), counting some and extrapolating to unknown areas (another error). Because we know that pits are not randomly but systematically located, excavated and followed, it makes no sense to extend their probable locations to unknown areas unless one is willing to accomodate [sic] enormous errors. In these algorithms, error compounds error compounds error. The resultant sums are a statement of faith, not fact; the numerologists may as well be counting angels dancing on heads of pins. That said, the Old Copper Culture did mine copper for several thousand years, and they removed quite a bit of ore, which in turn yielded much less actual copper. Without any “missing” copper, the rest of the episode becomes irrelevant. We talk next about an artifact that allegedly has Old World symbols. The tablet is presented as destroyed (obviously following Barry Fell and Wayne May, who claimed it had vanished), but all the better to create fake drama later on, as we shall see. Wolter claims he will test Michigan’s copper for purity and see if Old World copper artifacts are of the same purity to “prove” they are identical. As I discussed in my review of Gavin Menzies’ version of this claim, “According to the academic literature on copper purity ... the consensus is that there is no way to distinguish between native (i.e. unrefined) copper and smelted copper because ancient smelting techniques could produce copper indistinguishable from native copper.” The chemical formulae are tiresome to review in detail, but the books I consulted all agree: smelted copper’s purity cannot be distinguished from naturally pure copper, so Wolter’s purity test is useless. Only a trace element test would have any bearing on the situation, which Wolter, as a geologist, must know since he used that same type of test in S01E01 in looking for the clay used in Mayan blue pigment. We watch Wolter tramp around some old mine shafts, mostly to waste time; and at the halfway point of the show, I am now bored. “Why wouldn’t” Old World people come to Michigan for copper? Wolter asks. Well, that’s because they didn’t know it existed. But we look at a petroglyph that depicts a canoe or ship with a square sail, which Wolter admits is probably less than 1,000 years old, but then tells us might well be a depiction of a Minoan vessel—despite resembling Minoan ships in no discernible way. (The size and shape of the keel are different, for example.) Probably the petroglyph is post-contact, at a time when sails had become known to Native peoples. In a staged conversation, Wolter learns from a grizzled old geezer that the item he calls the Newberry Tablet still exists, and he goes to visit it. He claims the tablet must be legitimate because it contains “Minoan” writing and was found before the Minoan culture was “discovered” in 1900. There is no such thing as “Minoan” script, and Wolter never says what he means by it. The Minoans wrote in Linear A script, which has not been deciphered. As you can see from the pictures of the Newberry tablet and actual Linear A writing, the symbols are very different. The Newberry symbols appear to be a jumble of stylized Greek, Phoenician, and Runes, and other ancient symbols placed willy-nilly on the stone. Ah, but Wolter is fudging here. Alternative writers often claim the tablet reflects “Cypriot Minoan,” a nonsense term for the Cypriot syllabary, a type of writing used on Cyprus from 1000-400 BCE (predominantly, though, in the 500s BCE), when it was replaced by Greek. (Other alternative writers, like David Childress, claim the stone is written in Hittite, though this can't be the case since the Hittites wrote in cuneiform characters or in Anatolian hieroglyphs. The confusion stems from the theory that Cypriot script was a simplified variant of Hittite cuneiform, proposed in the 1880s.) The Cypriot syllabary was deciphered in the nineteenth century by Assyriologist George Smith (who also discovered the Babylonian flood myth)--before the Newberry tablet was “discovered,” making it likely that this was one source used to hoax the tablet. As you can see, the Cypriot syllabary was quite similar to the Newberry symbols (as are the well-known Phoenician letters) as carved by someone who doesn’t understand them very well. We then look at some underwater rock piles supposedly made in the shape of “Minoan” characters, though everyone involved admits with the show they’ve been altered in modern times. Even Wolter notices that the designs appear to be very recent.
The hour concludes with a PIXE analysis of the Michigan copper to try to match it to Old World copper artifacts. The results show germanium, arsenic, and other trace elements, with 99.9% copper purity in the Michigan sample. But Wolter does not compare the trace elements in the “Minoan” copper he refers to (from the same non-Minoan Bronze Age shipwreck Gavin Menzies used as false evidence of Minoans). The purity of the copper is irrelevant to the match; smelted copper can be taken to 99.9% purity, too, and Wolter purposely fails to mention any trace elements in the “Minoan” copper. Why? Because they don’t, won’t, and can’t match. This key omission lets him falsely claim a connection that simply does not exist.
227 Comments
Christopher Randolph
1/5/2013 03:37:27 pm
Yes sir, excellent analysis on all fronts.
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D Webster
1/6/2013 01:04:12 pm
Can you tell me the name of the Father/Son who wrote about the 7000 yr history of the Copper Trade in Michigan as I'd like to read their writings.
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D Webster
1/6/2013 01:11:50 pm
Here is a website I found that sounds like what you were talking about by Dr E W Johnson and his son David.
Christopher Randolph
1/6/2013 03:34:31 pm
That's the one! Sorry for not linking earlier.
Jim Phipps
3/23/2013 03:41:54 pm
The Ancient American Indian cultures that were native to Michigan (Paleo-Indians) have been defined in Michigan history books as the miners responsible for the era. 4700 BCE appears to be a busy era for this world and its resources.
Jake O'Connor
1/13/2013 04:13:24 pm
As another "white" guy, I just don't make the leap to this show, the claims promulgated in it, or the host being "racist" ,let alone "denigrating" the people who emigrated to North America (a continent without "natives, to be completely truthful) before Europeans. This show is bogus enough on itsown demerits; insinuating cultural or ethnic bias is as without integrity as is the show, & tthe network for showing it, itself....
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1/13/2013 10:25:24 pm
By that standard, no continent except Africa has "native" people since everyone emigrated out of Africa at some point in the past. I would say that living in a land for 15,000+ years is good enough to be "native" to it.
Varika
2/15/2013 10:25:35 pm
Well, Jake, an entire series that revolves around the concept that everything significant that ever happened in North America HAD TO BE due to Europeans--without even talking about Asians, Africans, Polynesians, or even the people who were actually in possession of the land at the time, whether you consider them to be "native" or not--certainly comes across as being distinctly racially biased, if not outright racist, and making wildly outlandish claims that the locals couldn't possibly have a use for metal while only Europeans were technologically savvy enough to want it is not precisely flattering to the locals.
Bdoon
11/30/2013 04:07:18 pm
To infer there was a single native race in NAmerica is absurb. There is significant evidence there were migrations ongoing from Polynesia and N Europe juat as from Asia. I totally agree there is no basis to citing racism as a fault of Unearthed. Sounds like a tweed trying to be PC. The theory of massive amounts of missing copper did not originate with Menzies or with Wolfer. These theories originated from the American and Canadian concerns mining copper in the Lake superior area overe 150 years ago. Sounds like the "world is flat" lunatic asylum as learned how to access the internet. I wish these flat world skeptics and PC tweeds would do their research which they claim they do because they talk to a few mettalurgist engineers. My father was botrh mechanical and mellatalurgy engineer and I know how his mined worked. I trust the word of the mining concerns themselves over some engineer 150 years later.
joe
1/4/2014 05:25:12 pm
Jason, you are as usual wrong and intentionally lying.
ShawnO
1/5/2015 01:38:39 pm
Joe, I think you are very confused about some anthropological topics and definitions, and you are obviously hostile toward the owner of this blog, who was not wrong. I cannot find any way in which he could possibly be lying about there not being any continent with natives either, by the standards the OP used to define them (having originated from said continent instead of coming there from some other continent).
Titus Pullo
2/9/2013 08:52:06 am
the "white guy" comment is irrelevant. I realize in the age of marxist diversity and obama..anything smacking of a postive view of Western Culture is anathemic to the "elites"...it really has nothing to do with this episode.
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dudderson
8/24/2013 04:27:14 pm
dudderson
8/24/2013 04:29:29 pm
Did some jackass actually wiggle in Obama in their comment? Amazing.
joe
1/4/2014 05:28:07 pm
Titus,
Maria
7/20/2013 02:44:36 pm
I agree with the degrading of the American Indian culture, somehow people think that genius was only in the here and now. If intellect was perpetrated in just one certain time we would still be trying to figure out the wheel. I feel that every culture and historical time had their men and women who were the inventors and engineers, using the tools and ingenuity to expand and create wonderful things. Genius is not just for the elite. But, I have to say that with this genius comes discovery. Even if the Indians used the copper who is to say that sea faring people did not come and see this wonderful metals and instruments and barter with the natives. We know from history books that many things were taking from the natives, could it be possible that there were native barters and seafaring peoples that could make the summation of Scott Wolter true? Archeology is not an exact science it is all summations and speculation on items found. The proof lies with the excavators not the storytellers. We all know a story tellers myths can get stretched through the ages. I feel until we can investigate and study the area, which is protected, we can't dismiss any beliefs about what happened to all the copper. We may even be surprised to find european presence. Who knows?
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bdoon
11/30/2013 04:20:50 pm
Kudos to you for your open-mind. Some folks thing realty is in a silicon chip or slide rule. The reality is that much has occured that we have no idea about because evidence has disappeared. No one even knew Mioan culture existed until early 1900s. We are momentary flashes in time and space on an infentesimal small spot of temporary matter in the universe and have these arrogant beings like most of our archealogists, scientists, etc. , who from a few ounces of grey matter in their head think they have the truth. All great learned men of all time on this earth have thought they had all the answers and in no time at all were proven wrong. I give Scott Wolfer that...he at least gets people thinking. When I went to 8th grade Columbus was a hero who discovered America. Times change things because people with open minds looked beyond whaat was accepted as truth. At least wolfer is doing that not looking up half truths from engineers who likely forget that engineers have seldom been responsible for new ideas. they just build little paradigms on what someone else already dreamed. They deal in the how but not the why or what.How did Minoans cross the Atlantic? The same way Columbus and the Vikings did. How did they get to Lake Superior? The same way the French did. How did they make such incredible journeys? the same way the Polynesians did when they traveled east to S America.
jmarks
10/11/2016 01:10:48 am
The problem is one of logistics and lack of credible evidence. La Salle the first Frenchman to sail into Lake Ontario, could not navigate past Niagara Falls except by canoe. Likewise no ship of any size that could not be portaged could make it up any river into Lake Superior. Logically, it would require many months of rivers and overland routes to move copper ingots or ore out of the region at best. Assuming, hundreds if not thousands of years of mining this would require established quarters for the miners and way stations for the mariners ferrying the ingots or ore from L. Superior. Supposedly, there is anecdotal evidence of red-haired miners but not of the way stations nor is there any Minoan cultural contamination to surrounding native tribes. The Minoan society was found because of numerous "seal stones" bearing Linear A (it may have been B, I cannot recall which) that were prevalent in Greek archeological collections. Why have none be found around a site that was supposedly occupied for hundreds of years? Create had a countless numbers of the seal stones. The rune stone and a copper snake not shown in the show are the only evidence ever offered. The rune stone has been shown to be unrelated to Linear A or B. The snake could have been produced by a number of American cultures. These questions have never been posed nor answered by the show, yet one would think they would be necessary to establish Minoan occupation and trade route. Thanks for the credit. Native Americans at one time were some of the greatest crafts men when it came to design and creation molten metal. Because of wars, the ingenuity faded as the fading sunset. and many of their writings and weapons were hidden away. They soon be discovered. as a lot of copper/ore elements are being unearthed. Soon the story will be told why and how this was done.
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joe
1/4/2014 04:54:04 pm
You've been properly brainwashed by the jewish elite that control the majority of what you are allowed to read (internet, newspapers and magazines) anbd see (TV and movies).
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Jim Phipps
1/5/2014 05:04:00 am
Oh, please ... try gunpowder and trigonometry, air conditioners, and Joseph Smith's prophecy for SIMPLE examples of inventions not created by whites ... I have white skin with Cherokee and Danish ancestry .. IQ tests are meaningless ... there are no "experts" because "expertise" implies perfection and perfection is un-achievable due to the quark and all that is unpredictable. Brainwashing suggests the majority are of a collective consciousness, it doesn't prove it, but it is obviously not the case. There are obviously no High IQs in the Upper Realms of power, merely sadists obsessed with defecation. Otherwise the Capitalistic, polarizing, "Dog eat Dog" zeitgeist would be easily rejected because "Divided we fall", right. I don't tend to prototype a lot of people I never once met face to face. There are good and bad types everywhere of any race. ... I think overall .. it is the combination of abusive power schemes that we all hate ... to comply is not exactly brainwashing .. it is total awareness to some ... to say, "I can't save the world from this pathos alone .. getting shot by the Secret Service is somewhat primitive, aye?"
jeanne
1/5/2014 08:13:19 am
JOE...I see you seem to suffer mightily from OBD...Obama Derangement syndrome. sad really..I have seen it affect even otherwise intelligent friends. The white man made the world..wow. have you actually studied the evolution of mankind, reasons for the variety of opportunities. Start with looking up the location of draft animals...then look at the variations in high protein foods in development....check .the direct of mountain ranges in the spread of early sharing of collective learning. This old lady is truly sad to see that some of America are still suffering from delusions of their superiority. and what if when you get to the Pearly Gates you see St Peter as the dark black haired near eastern semite ..along with that dark guy Jesus. whining crybaby...grow up 1/5/2014 10:53:36 am
Before you denigrate China you should check your facts, the Chinese invented gunpowder, the compass, paper and printing. The Chinese had a system of civil service exams long before any "white" nation. Would you like more examples of what "non-whites" have invented or shouldn't I confuse you with more facts? 1/5/2014 10:57:03 am
Before you denigrate China you should check your facts, the Chinese invented gunpowder, the compass, paper and printing. The Chinese had a system of civil service exams long before any "white" nation. Would you like more examples of what "non-whites" have invented or shouldn't I confuse you with more facts?
Tom
1/24/2015 11:36:11 am
If your going to troll. At least have the decency to be good at it.
Dave
4/21/2015 10:18:48 am
Joe, it is not surprising that someone with neo Nazi views like yourself would be drawn to pseudo history as your political beliefs obviously trump true history.
steve blakely
1/7/2014 10:41:14 am
i was born in newberry in the sixtys never heard of this tablet is it real
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Julie Davison
2/25/2014 03:47:32 am
I own a site in the North East and I believe that what I have found on my site my help in the eternal quest for attempting to solve where all the copper went.
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Aikaterini Rousaki
4/12/2014 09:42:24 am
By reading the comments below I realised that nobody has any clue about the Minoan civilisation as it is just mentioned as a European civilisation. Let me inform you all that before you say whatever irrelevant that it was the first European civilisation believed by many to be the lost Atlantis civilisation destroyed by a volcanic eruption. A piece of advice to all of you would be to read a bit about it first and then write your comments as I´m sure will contain less untruthful facts. The Minoan civilisation was vast and included all the Mediterranean, the Viking ships were built based on the Minoan ships and without any more clues those facts would be enough to presume that the Minoans could have gone as far as Michigan. In the Heraklion museum exist lots of bronze artefacts, that link the whole of the Mediterranean. To answer the issues about the native Americans and their mining capabilities I want to mentioned that the Minoans at 5000 B.C. they lived in three store buildings and had bathtubs and flushing toilets (on the third floor of their apartments). their ships were the most advanced of the time and to me it seems highly possible that they travelled through the Atlantic ocean... So nothing to do with the 5000 B.C. native Americans...
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Angelos
4/12/2014 10:46:06 am
Very corect katerina
Angelos
4/12/2014 10:46:17 am
Very corect katerina
Joe W.
11/22/2014 12:31:13 pm
You would think that somebody who was trying to get to the truth about these tablets would at least mention that at least 3,000 similar objects were found from 1890 to about 1920 in Michigan, proving variously the early entry into the Americas of ancient Egyptians, Biblical Hebrews, Coptic Christians, and now, it seems, ancient Minoans. Some academics have called it "the largest archaeological hoax in American history." More on the "Michigan relics" here:
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Matthew G Bise
10/19/2022 07:15:21 pm
What about the greatest of
mary K Johnson
1/6/2013 06:00:44 am
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Michael o'Connor
1/8/2013 03:50:20 pm
I noticed in the episode that Cyprus is never mentioned. Cyprus was a very well known source of copper in the Bronze age. Much as I would love to see the Minoans in America, it is much more likely that they got their copper from Cyprus, right next door, than Michigan, thousands of miles by stormy sea and a nasty portage around several falls.
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paul
2/6/2013 03:50:12 am
problem is with purity of copper from local (Greece ) source. By smelting copper you can't remove sulphur and other metals find in cooper mined in region ( Africa, Asia, Europe ). Maybe I'm wrong, but so far copper from Michigan match Minoa copper. Like to see full spectometer and other data.
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Varika
2/15/2013 10:29:06 pm
...yes, paul. Yes you can. That's sort of the definition of smelting: separating the metal you want from the ore and its impurities.
Wendigo
6/15/2013 06:15:31 am
The purity argument is utter nonsense. A chemical and isotopic analysis could resolve the question easily, but obviously Wolter won't do that because it would disprove his preposterous theory.
Lisa
3/10/2013 08:37:50 am
Yes! Thank you Michael. I've just had the misfortune to watch this show and as a Bronze Age archaeologist currently living in Cyprus I've been screaming 'CYPRUS' at the top of my voice.
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Joe
1/16/2013 06:32:50 am
Ah, Jason, I was sorry to see you skip what was my favorite part of the show: The preposterous claim by Wolter that the island's native wolf population was endangered because they were all dying from falls into the countless open mine shafts!
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1/16/2013 09:04:11 am
Yes, that was a howler, but it's not something I know how to confirm or deny. Sadly, environmental studies isn't my area!
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H E R
6/5/2018 03:08:13 pm
It happens.
Ninja Gaijin
1/27/2013 08:36:15 pm
Yep, that bit had me cracking up pretty bad. I'd ostracised it from my mind until you just reminded me.
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CHV
2/22/2014 12:16:27 pm
I visited Isle Royale for several days in 1989. Even then, the wolf population was on the decline due to in-breeding and without a fresh influx of new DNA from Canada, was expected to continue falling.
Valaya Gaudet
10/3/2014 12:41:48 pm
Thanks for bringing that up, Joe. I thought that the claims about the missing copper were preposterous enough but the one about the wolves... sorry, I'm laughing so hard I can't type anymore. A "howler" indeed, Jason.
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1/17/2013 12:59:39 pm
I am a Michigan native; I just do not understand how the Minoans could move 1 to 1.5 Billion tons of raw copper via Great Lakes, overland America, plus across oceans back to the Mediterranean.
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I am thoroughly enjoying your analysis and deconstruction of these episodes. The Ancient Aliens stuff I can't watch. The dude with the big hair and the spray on tan is just too weird to be taken realistically in the first place.
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1/22/2013 12:37:29 pm
Scott Wolter is a professional geologist who holds a bachelor's degree in geology. The professional organization to which he belongs requires only a bachelor's degree and several years' work experience to be titled a professional geologist. His background is in testing concrete for structural faults.
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titus pullo
2/9/2013 08:58:00 am
thanks Jason.
Bdoon
11/30/2013 04:34:42 pm
the problem with the physics ans chemistry and the other so called "real sciences" is that in another century much of what is claimed as truth and fact to day will no longer be so or matter. scientists from every age since who knows when have claimed they had the facts only to be proven wrong in no time at all. Already all our concepts of what constitutes reality are on the chopping block with quamtum physics and string theory . It is really comical to listen to engineers and silicon tweeds try to explain away occurences that were testified to by people on location 150 years ago. Cyprus was a source of copper but any person with an elementary background in early history of the Levant knows that the amount of copper mined from Cyprus according to traditional , conservative scientist , could barely account for a fraction of the bronze produced in the so-called Bronze Age.
joe
1/4/2014 05:37:31 pm
Jason,
Mary K Johnson
1/23/2013 08:34:41 am
Was sneezing (Flu) & inadvertently clicked unsubscribe :(
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Dave Borgioli
1/27/2013 10:05:13 am
First, thanks to your reviews and all of the comments with their additional information.
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Ninja Gaijin
1/27/2013 08:38:16 pm
I'm sure illegal hunting takes its toll too. The wolves have a real bad rap over there from what I hear.
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Dave Borgioli
1/28/2013 08:10:16 am
Isle Royale is a government park with limited access. The annual report and other sites made no mention of illegal hunting on the island. Given that the population of wolves is so small it seems unlikely that any illegal hunting would go unnoticed especially since the organization monitoring this is more involved than just about anywhere else. I know that in other areas of the country hunting and trapping does occasionally claim a wolf as does the inevitable encounter with a car, truck, etc.
Ryan
2/5/2013 03:37:39 pm
Great review. I just finished watching 20 minutes of the re-run and I had to turn the channel. I looked forward to watching the episode (I have not seen others in the series) because from the description, I thought they were going to say there was little/no copper in Lake Superior and explain what geological forces did that. I know the UP is known for copper so the idea of no copper in the lake was intriguing..
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Matt jazz
2/5/2013 03:42:31 pm
Thanks for publishing this. I only caught the first few minutes of this show and was dumbfounded by the claims. I finally had time to google 'newberry tablet'. The third link was this site, much more believable than that drivel on TV.
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Nigel Brooks
2/5/2013 04:01:43 pm
Just caught this on 2-5-2013 and decided to google the Newberry Tablet, and came across this site. I was becoming somewhat pessimistic when he began talking about a theory of ancient Minoans mining in North America. Wondering how or why they would navigate the East Coast thru the great lakes to superior, smelt the ore and then get it back to Crete. Wondering how large their vessels were, and how many trips it would take to get a billion or so pounds of copper back to the Mediterranean.
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Earl Yetman
2/5/2013 04:07:22 pm
As a MS candidate in the geosciences at Western Michigan University, home of the Michigan Geological Survey, I have some opinions on this program. If Mr. Wolters would have asked the M.G.S. we would have gladly given him a sample of Michigan copper and assisted in the analysis of such copper in our research facilities.
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Earl Yetman
2/5/2013 04:09:35 pm
I apologize for the misspelling of Mr. Wolter's name.
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Valaya Gaudet
10/3/2014 12:49:19 pm
Thanks for a most informative post.
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Valaya Gaudet
10/3/2014 12:49:39 pm
Thanks for a most informative post, Earl.
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james morgan
2/5/2013 04:19:51 pm
Having just seen the "show", I had to google this up. I certainly concur with all above comments but I do have to say the most dumbfounding thing I got was that he was not able to take "anything from the site", uh, a rock? from a place that had been mined for years and years!
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Laura
2/5/2013 08:24:02 pm
How do these people sleep at night? Are they the product of the Americal education system, the cause, or both? So I was up with the flu tonight, and even through a Robotussin-induced haze found myself getting angrier and angrier. I knew I'd came across the 'Newberry tablet' in its obvious hoax context before, and a quick Google led me here. Thank the Minoan Mother Goddess that I'm not the only one fuming from this show. I'm completely sober now, lol. Just slap "forensic" before your profession and you're good as hired for this low-brow "channel". Better than being a cement mixer I guess.
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John Libert
2/6/2013 06:45:19 am
This analysis is right on the mark!! I tuned into this program near the end and watched only a small part of it. I did not know the guy is a geologist, and am quite surprised at that. As a geologist myself, I am appalled that he ignored the trace element composition of the ore - the only information relevant in forming a "signature' against which to match another sample. I flipped to another channel in disgust.
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Joe goods
2/6/2013 01:58:15 pm
Let's lose the racist diatribe please. Mock the hosts shadowy techniques, loose logic and borderline talks how semantics but lets not make him and his show into a racist "nazi??" Regime film. Laura and the other race card players, you really put yourselves in the same category as the host when you make such libelous and defamatory remarks. Disagree with the host and his arguments: fine, try and brand him a racist; not fine.
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Rudy Luck
2/7/2013 02:43:37 am
In spite of this review, there was more evidence presented in this TV show for people mining copper 6,000 years ago than there is proof that God exists. One has to wonder at the ability of this forensic geologist to get funds for this dribble. It must rank as one of the worse theories ever put forth by man. The collection of stones at the end under the lake made for wonderful television.
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Bettylene W. Franzus
2/9/2013 12:32:59 pm
American History is often not accurately reported in our text books so the accusation that this "data" has been left out is troubling for those of us who teach. We have to remind our students to always check the reference accuracy of such productions and thankfully your site did so using language that was sufficiently non-technical that it could be understood easily. Good Work! BWF
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Steve Hughes
2/9/2013 08:15:11 pm
I love this show and I can't believe that all of this is fake. Discovery, TLC, History should all be ashamed of themselves. The only way this show could be better is if a large Mexican girl and a bald white trash guy showed up at the end of the show to repo the production crews vehicles. Next month they are going to have a show studying how a woman's body rejects the sperm of a male whom rapes them, should make for interesting show swag. I'm thinking either Kobe Bryant autographed balls or raincoats with the shows logo.
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Dale Triplett
2/13/2013 12:55:20 pm
The vast majority of surviving cuneiform fragments are primarily droll inventory listings, with some noting significant leaders or contributors. Strange how the Cypriots and Minoans failed to document "copper obtained from thousands of leagues to the east.", or the heroes who would have ventured for months to retrieve it.
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NicoleG
2/13/2013 05:13:48 pm
I just watched America Unearthed for the first time and figured that I was completely naive, as a molecular biologist, to all this new information on copper in 'Merica. Then, I noticed some big holes in the 'scientific method' going on in the show and found your informative website. Thank you!
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Ben Shaw
2/14/2013 08:58:41 pm
I have no training in geology whatsoever, know nothing about copper, have never been to Michigan, and watched this program assuming it was not an intentional deception. Nonetheless, I was left with a number of questions as the show progressed. They kind of went as follows from the beginning of the show:
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Michael O'Connor
4/14/2013 12:35:06 pm
Regarding Minoan script; they wrote in what we now call Linear A, not cuneiform. It is currently undecifered. we do not even know what language the Minoans spoke.
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Angelo
8/1/2013 03:45:42 am
The Minoas spoke Greek. Michael Ventris has decifered Linear B in 1952. 8/1/2013 03:56:12 am
Linear B was the language of the Mycenaeans, a Greek-speaking people. We do not know what language the Minoans represented with Linear A.
steve schlah
9/15/2013 04:29:46 am
For a seemingly pedestrian comment, you hit the 'nail on the head' on (pardon the pun) all points. Where were the copper molds? Why can't the Michigan copper be analyzed to show whether the trace elements correspond to Minoan? How did the "Minoans" find this source in the first place? How did they ship it? Who did all this "supposed" mining? Why are there no human remains of the "Minoan" or "native" workers?
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Dan DeCesare
2/18/2013 07:10:12 am
I just viewed this show and agree with the majority of your premises, which refute the major claims made by the show. The lake ship petroglyph is estimated to be only 1,000 yrs or less. That brings into play many different ships that the local people might have seen and drawn; including the Vikings! The local tribes definitely have been underestimated in their abilities to create and improvise, and our history books need to be updated in order to include the incredible cultures seemingly forgotten by American historians; such as the great mound cultures of Ohio and Mississippi areas. However, we must admit that the Asian and Euro-cultures of those sane ancient times were superior in their technological advancements, if only because of a more favorable geography, more advantageous to the sharing of new inventions, etc. because of that fact, I don't concur with some of the comments on this blog that suggest this show is somehow racially biased.
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Jim
3/2/2013 06:01:36 pm
Maybe the indians used the copper to make their pennys
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Jam
2/18/2013 03:20:32 pm
NEWBERRY TABLET markings look more like JAVA ? or BAYBAYIN ? or ARABIC?
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Ben Deere
3/10/2013 04:51:43 am
While I agree the general overview of "America Unearthed", allow me to point out some ADDITIONAL facts that other self-aggrandizing and back-patting 'academics' here posted.
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3/10/2013 05:09:54 am
I'm not sure you understand what the word "theory" means or else you'd recognize that gravitation is a scientific "theory" as well.
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Nikola T.
9/20/2013 07:19:49 pm
The mathematical formula for gravity ?
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Earl Yetman
7/28/2014 10:26:40 am
Wow, the person "that knows that will be the worlds' first trillionaire". Really, are you serious?
Brian
3/11/2013 05:42:13 am
"Nice debunking work Jason, thanks! I was getting online to find a place to complain about the terrible crap being passed off as “science” by this, and many other History Channel productions.
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3/11/2013 02:01:59 pm
I'm glad you liked the review. That's a very interesting point about the Neanderthals that I'll admit I hadn't thought much about. That's the problem with these kinds of biases--they're subtle enough that they can simply escape conscious notice.
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Valaya Gaudet
10/3/2014 01:16:58 pm
You make a really good point, Brian: that the Neanderthals were most likely the ones who were fair-skinned, not Homo Sapiens. As far as their brain size, the Neanderthal's cranial capacity was 1450 cc; that of H. Sapiens was 1400 cc. therefore less, as you pointed out (I'm taking a class in Archaeology so I looked it up!) The belief that the Neanderthals brutish, clumsy and bestial is a myth that has been perpetrated since 1913 "when the French physical anthropologist Marcellin Boule published a study of an arthritic Neanderthatl skeleton from the site of La Chapelle-aux-Saints." (Images of the Past, 7th ed., p.111) Boule mistakenly concluded that the deformed bones were typical for Neanderthals.
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Thomas
10/22/2016 07:51:07 pm
I found the show devoid of genuine scientific discovery. I believe that Europeans did journey to North America before Columbus and one instance of that are the Vikings. There is a little evidence of Egyptians making the voyage but nothing certain. The leaps and bounds that this show makes on little evidence is just a bunch of BS. And, the show should have considered the technology of the Native Americans in this episode. The Native American people were not savages devoid of any thought. They did and do have culture and technology. I agree other comments on the observation that Native American culture is always dismissed as primitive - which it wasn't/isn't.
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Neil McDevitt
3/15/2013 09:10:13 am
It's funny because I was just watching that episode and that last point re: purity really bugged the heck out of me because he never said what the supposed reference points for the European copper sources were either. I found this post because I went online to search for the information inferred. Thanks!
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Karl Kretschmar
3/15/2013 10:16:27 am
Wow, as a Geologist specializing in Geochemistry I was initially intrigued by the title of this program, however I was quickly disappointed with the complete lack of any real science going on here.
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3/15/2013 07:32:59 pm
Mr. Colavito: Thank you for your review. I finally gave in and watched this episode this morning. It is distressing to me how The History Channels, National Geographic and others have been airing this kind of programming which are largely nothing but fantasy. Surely they must know that many people believe that if they are showing it, then it must be true. I can only conclude that they do it simply to keep up with their "ratings"! Over the last few years I have had to inform people more than once that what they were watching was only one person's or a few people's wild imaginings about some historical piece. Aliens involved with the Nazcar Lines, the pyramids of Egypt being built with kites, and now the Minoans coming to Michigan to mine copper...all presented with tissue thin evidence, but with plenty of exciting background music, editing, and claims of how history will "have to be rewritten". I always tell people the same thing. If such discoveries are actually made, you will be hearing it on the National News every night for weeks! It will be in every magazine with National Geographic leading the way, and it will be the ONLY thing on the internet! That always manages to snap them out of it. I only wish that these channels were required to issue just such a disclaimer. Of course, that's not about to happen.
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mike kenney
3/19/2013 03:28:36 am
Like many, i decry pseudo-history done for profit. The use of filler being the most telling indicator. Ore transportation, trace elements, and correlation were just a handful of the flaws.Still i would applaud the spotlight on little known facts and artifacts even if they misinterpret them. Any current version of history has holes, and the place to tweak it is in the anomalies. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Smugness is a bigger arch enemy than commercialism.:
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3/23/2013 03:58:23 pm
The Ancient American Indian cultures that were native to Michigan (Paleo-Indians) have been defined in Michigan history books as the miners responsible for the era. With that in mind, the show does make a bit of sense. It is also the same era for Jordanian (Khirbat Hamra Ifidam) copper refineries. It is not unrealistic to think that Crete not only played role as initiate to Jordanian or Michigan copper industries
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3/23/2013 03:58:29 pm
The Ancient American Indian cultures that were native to Michigan (Paleo-Indians) have been defined in Michigan history books as the miners responsible for the era. With that in mind, the show does make a bit of sense. It is also the same era for Jordanian (Khirbat Hamra Ifidam) copper refineries. It is not unrealistic to think that Crete not only played role as initiate to Jordanian or Michigan copper industries
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3/23/2013 03:59:31 pm
The Ancient American Indian cultures that were native to Michigan (Paleo-Indians) have been defined in Michigan history books as the miners responsible for the era. With that in mind, the show does make a bit of sense. It is also the same era for Jordanian (Khirbat Hamra Ifidam) copper refineries. It is not unrealistic to think that Crete not only played role as initiate to Jordanian or Michigan copper industries
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3/23/2013 04:00:07 pm
The Ancient American Indian cultures that were native to Michigan (Paleo-Indians) have been defined in Michigan history books as the miners responsible for the era. With that in mind, the show does make a bit of sense. It is also the same era for Jordanian (Khirbat Hamra Ifidam) copper refineries.
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3/23/2013 04:00:59 pm
Part 1
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Danny
4/14/2013 11:36:44 am
To paraphase, I think the author doth protest to much and no I will not donate think you very much.
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danny
4/14/2013 11:32:18 am
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4/14/2013 03:23:16 pm
Copper Mines still run at full production in the U.P.. Tilden and Empire http://hunts-upguide.com/ishpeming_tilden_empire_iron_mine_tour.html#.UWtjaLWG1AI
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4/14/2013 03:23:22 pm
Copper Mines still run at full production in the U.P.. Tilden and Empire http://hunts-upguide.com/ishpeming_tilden_empire_iron_mine_tour.html#.UWtjaLWG1AI
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clay
4/25/2013 12:53:19 pm
Tilden and Empire are iron ore mines.
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4/26/2013 02:49:25 pm
Oh, yeah .. my mistake. What was I thinking. I was up there. I guess the big tumblers were too distracting. You are right, clay, the Tilden and Empire are Iron Ore mines. The size of the machinery is mammoth, worth a tour.
J Fleck
5/1/2013 07:34:36 am
Good job on your review of this program. I agree with the earlier comments that a lot of these networks (History Channel, National Geographic, Discovery, etc) now broadcast pseudo-history and science for profit. Sadly its another step towards the dumbing down of American society. I remember back when The LEARNING Channel had serious shows and now we have to contend with Honey Boo Boo. Good Grief!
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5/1/2013 07:40:46 am
Well, "America Unearthed" is the complete opposite of history, so it figures. Thanks for catching that.
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kitchener
5/3/2013 05:09:57 pm
It seems I find myself tuning in to this show to see how far fetched each new episode will be. The copper mining by Minoans was just bizarre! Trying to imagine them shooting Niagara Falls with a couple tons of copper in the hold of their ship! The one part left out of Wolter's story were the hazy glyphs of what some believe to be Sasquatchs being held in chain gangs and forced by the Minoans to mine the ore in horrid conditions. Once the Minoans left, the remaining Sasquatch population died by falling into the mine shafts, thereby setting a precedent for the wolves thousands of years later.
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5/24/2013 01:58:07 am
Yes, like many found this episode very dubious. If Minoans were mining copper, or just buying it, show me the homes, the graves, the pottery, the wrecked ships. Why was no Minoan expert interviewed about the tablet - I assume because it's not Minoan. This show should come with a viewer beware warning.
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Daniel
6/3/2013 10:47:17 am
Wow, another instance of nonsense...of the same kind that those who do not believe on mankind capacity to build pyramids...truly, only because one does not have the guts or resources to do something does not mean aliens or minoans did it instead. But who cares? The show's been broadcasted an paid for, that's all they need
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Paul Schellenberg
6/19/2013 06:36:34 pm
I must say that reading the analysis, comments, and replies on this blog has been much more informative and interesting than this episode which I just watched on H2, History's new "hip" channel. Tried not to laugh out loud at so many jumps in "logic" where according to Scott, if A appears to = B then B must be Minoan. He regularly seems to employ this technique whenever it fits his general predilection to believe in anything that supposedly predates Columbus's 1492 voyage. For added effect, I notice he likes to show skeletons (in this episode, I guess he couldn't find one from a fallen moose).
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Paul D.
7/31/2013 07:24:26 pm
Why does History Channel put this crap on TV? I personally love alternate theories and pushing the envelope in an effort to enrich our knowledge, this show s an offense to intelligence and quite frankly just sad, thanks History Channel.
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Paul D.
8/1/2013 04:08:36 am
Maybe they should rename the episode: Ancient Alien Minoan Miners
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William L
8/23/2013 02:23:43 pm
You know all you guys are arguing from the easy side of the street. You sound like a bunch of armchair quarterbacks the day after the game. How about spending some real time in the field on the other side of the equation!!!
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8/23/2013 03:01:24 pm
You'd need to start by proving there is actually "missing" copper. This is only an assumption made by bad guesswork in the 1960s and not supported by modern research.
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William L
8/23/2013 05:29:03 pm
Jason, what do think the Packers did wrong today.
Jim Phipps
12/31/2013 12:05:05 am
We need to prove it? Why? Why not just take it for granted that the basis of this forum is worth consideration? True or false, history books, science books does reinforce the mining actions. It is, if nothing less, an incredible act of manpower. My guess is they just look at the caverns and their wall and measure the gaps and say approximately this or that amount has been removed and carbon dating or something close to that can reveal the "ballpark" date and time. What they did advanced culture on one hand by supplying the copper age technologies, and it cursed the culture on the other hand establishing practices as you see exploitation develop. 9/15/2013 09:43:15 am
I am not the "armchair warrior" you reference, I have done the field work, it is my website that you reference. I find that you have many false assumptions in your statements.
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Valaya Gaudet
10/3/2014 01:55:19 pm
You say that " the area around Oconto is full of copper artifacts DATING TO THIS TIME PERIOD." How do you know that? Are you and your dad experienced archaeologists? It seems to me that a site that is not properly excavated could easily give the results that you want it to give.
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William L
8/23/2013 05:54:40 pm
OK I was just having some fun on your account.
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9/15/2013 09:51:01 am
Yes, they were "native nomadic Native American's. They did not acquire their copper tool making and mining skills out of thin air. These people searched glacial till for material from which to fashion their lithic tools and weapons. This glacial till contained native copper torn from exposed copper deposits by the glaciers. If someone were to find an object that was heavier than stone isn't it reasonable to believe that they would have struck it and when they found it to be malleable attempted to fashion or modify it in some manner?
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Dave Borgioli
8/26/2013 07:14:10 am
William L made some interesting comments that reminded me of a book I read many years after it was published (if you can find it, I suggest you purchase it. It is worth reading and comparing it to what has been discovered in the past fifty years). The book was called They All Discovered America by Charles Michael Boland. It was written in 1961 and back then he argued that many peoples discovered America long before Columbus and made this argument long before it was accepted. He wasn't a crackpot and provided compelling evidence. (N.B. I still think the T.V. program being discussed was rubbish and that scientifically it was worse than bad form; it was intellectually dishonest, much like the phrase BCE in lieu of BC.)
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8/26/2013 07:16:36 am
Copper was in fact traded all over North America by Native Americans. You can read about it in the literature on the Old Copper Culture. It's no secret.
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Eric
8/31/2013 02:34:45 pm
I am neither an archaeologist or "forensic geologist" but one needs not specialized training to debunk Wolters outragous theories. Simply look at this missing copper discussion from a purely logistical standpoint. If you accept the premise that the minoans knew there was copper in lake Superior, that they knew where it was and that they had the ships/knowledge to navigate the north Atlantic. Lake superior is far from the ocean, it lies upstream from several major water falls in niagara and montreal. We take for granted that ocean vessels navigate the upper great lakes now, but there were hundreds of miles of canals dug in the 19th and 20th centuries to allow for this. Bronze age europeans lacked these facilities. Maybe they moved the copper by land? Prior to accepted european contact, the upper great lakes were isolated from the atlantic by thousands of miles of unbroaken wilderness, no hiways, no rail links.
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William L
9/12/2013 11:23:39 am
Yes is would be near impossible to move the copper down the Great Lakes, but it would have been relatively easy to float it down the Mississippi. Sailing form Europe to the America's is just a matter of following the currents and trade winds and magically you can find yourself a the mount of the Mississippi.
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William L
9/12/2013 12:23:01 pm
No known civilization existed anywhere in the America's during this time period, only copper trinkets have ever been excavated anywhere in the America's. So what happened to all this copper, I'm going with Europe no matter how unlikely. 9/15/2013 10:02:50 am
Your statement "It wasn't so much mined but dislodged from cracks where the glaciers placed it." is way off the mark. They had two sources for the copper - from glacial till and by mining it.
Javale
11/28/2013 02:03:31 pm
We have a smartass over here!
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Ron
11/28/2013 03:16:07 pm
Wow, talk about over thinking. This show, silly as it may seem, is entertainment people, its not an episode of NOVA.
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James
11/21/2014 03:51:57 pm
As Ron stated, Hoolie is a living legend of Yooperland and not just some "grizzled old geezer". Instead of debating where the "missing" copper went, we need to locate where Jason's "missing" brain ended up. I bet Giorgio Tsoukalos would have the answer, ALIENS!!
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Hedda
11/30/2013 11:24:40 am
At least Mr. Wolter, as out to lunch as hs theories are, credits human beings as the perpetrators, not ancient aliens. Thanks for the entertaining discourse.
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Gary
11/30/2013 01:19:15 pm
Like most TV programs, its there for entertainment. As well as websites such as this. Mr. Wolter with whatever degree he has or one that everyone seems to challenge, wasn't the first to talk/write about the "missing copper." Its been going on for decades. I enjoyed the program and I enjoyed the many other sites that point out interesting details about the history of copper in the Bronze Age. One thing I do know about history of man, it constantly changes. This program to me simply asked, what if. Less than 100 years ago we thought only a handful of ships reached the "new world." Historians are now saying handfuls of cultures could of reached here before Columbus. And with that, thank you all for YOUR entertainment.
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12/1/2013 03:49:05 pm
Very excellent analysis of the cement mixer on the basis of curing process specially rearrange by the Curing Compound Manufacture that can literally provide the different properties and long lasting benefits.
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Andy
12/6/2013 01:38:19 pm
Is it just me, or did Wolter say several times that the Newberry Tablet was made of stone? Someone else in the show (I think it was the guy in the rock gift shop) said that it was unfired clay, which would explain why it was in such "tough shape" at the museum at St. Ignace. The museum indicates it is clay, also.
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Geoff
12/30/2013 04:44:07 am
I just recently came across this series. I actually had the vain hope that it would consist of a skeptic investigating many of the claims regarding evidence of pre-columbian contact with the new world.
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george.russert
1/5/2014 08:31:05 am
Just goes to prove, that contrary to popular opinion, the oldest profession is that of critic.
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Jim Phipps
1/7/2014 10:58:04 am
lol - Enoch - "Why doth though sayeth, 'Cursed are thee'?"
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David
2/7/2014 03:48:18 am
I have to agree with Eric, though we are all arguing out of ignorance. If the Minoans (ancient Greece) were able to find North America which is rich with resources and has very fertile land. Would they not have settled the land and built their huge structures which would still be standing to this day? I'm sure they would have found nice big stones around the lake to use for their structures. Why would Europeans settle and not the Minoans? The thought of an ancient civilization crossing the Mediterranean and the North Atlantic with limited technology is silly.
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Dave
3/5/2014 01:45:46 am
I commend the History Channel for having the audacity to expose the hidden evidence that mainstream 'science' has been sweeping under the rug. Ancient Aliens and America Unearthed are the most profound documentaries ever produced, in my not-so-humble opinion. Mainstream science AND mainstream religion are BOTH confounded by these revelations. In some cases 'scientists' were caught attempting to deface or remove evidence that offended their sensibilities. Other evidence is tucked away in back rooms at museums, safely secluded out of the view of an inquisitive public. Pour it on, History Channel!!! The Louder they complain, the closer you are to the Truth!!!
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Dave B
3/7/2014 03:09:25 am
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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Julie Davison
3/6/2014 05:33:55 am
I truly and respectfully understand all skepticism in what we have not yet had the opportunity to see first hand or personally experience as hard reality directly in front of us. Many times even when we are provided the opportunity to see and experience the truth first hand we are just not provided the physical tools to see until we can truly accept and be open to a world that may extend far beyond modern man's technology and ability to see.
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J. Davison
3/7/2014 06:47:47 am
Dave,
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J. Davison
4/23/2014 10:56:53 am
I am thrilled that I generated such a passionate dialog among men, however since there are so many varied opinions regarding the missing copper with unfortunately no real solid answers there will always be a passionate debate among men without hard facts. What I can tell you is that the first artificial pigments made by man were the blue derivatives in search of recreating colors of the sky, the ocean, and the heavens. Turquoise, Malachite, and Lapis Lazuli were two minerals that came from the earth but they were very hard to come by. There must have been a small select group of men that devoted their lives to searching, collecting, and experimenting with minerals because of their varied unique nature. The reds, browns, oranges, and yellow ochre pigments became important to early cultures not just for their beauty that was created as they bled from the mountains sides, but also for their protective healing properties. The blue and green minerals were considered more sacred because of their likeness to represent water and air, which was vital to all life. Copper was the replacement to Lapis Lazuli, Turquoise, and Malachite because the copper veins bled oxidized greens and blues, which was their replacement to these sacred stones. For instance, if you have a site with approximately 100,000 stones that were collected from every possible source by this distant culture within their transit region and they had a generous availability to copper; this culture could devote their days to experimenting and recreating the perfect blue pigment; all you really needed was a source for copper, sand, and the ability to harness energy to create extreme heat for refining the copper derivatives. There is plenty of evidence in ancient cultures that showed signs of higher technologies within small isolated pockets across the globe, the problem is that there has been little success in tying them all together.
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J. Davison
4/23/2014 10:57:10 am
I am thrilled that I generated such a passionate dialog among men, however since there are so many varied opinions regarding the missing copper with unfortunately no real solid answers there will always be a passionate debate among men without hard facts. What I can tell you is that the first artificial pigments made by man were the blue derivatives in search of recreating colors of the sky, the ocean, and the heavens. Turquoise, Malachite, and Lapis Lazuli were two minerals that came from the earth but they were very hard to come by. There must have been a small select group of men that devoted their lives to searching, collecting, and experimenting with minerals because of their varied unique nature. The reds, browns, oranges, and yellow ochre pigments became important to early cultures not just for their beauty that was created as they bled from the mountains sides, but also for their protective healing properties. The blue and green minerals were considered more sacred because of their likeness to represent water and air, which was vital to all life. Copper was the replacement to Lapis Lazuli, Turquoise, and Malachite because the copper veins bled oxidized greens and blues, which was their replacement to these sacred stones. For instance, if you have a site with approximately 100,000 stones that were collected from every possible source by this distant culture within their transit region and they had a generous availability to copper; this culture could devote their days to experimenting and recreating the perfect blue pigment; all you really needed was a source for copper, sand, and the ability to harness energy to create extreme heat for refining the copper derivatives. There is plenty of evidence in ancient cultures that showed signs of higher technologies within small isolated pockets across the globe, the problem is that there has been little success in tying them all together.
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J. Davison
4/23/2014 10:57:17 am
I am thrilled that I generated such a passionate dialog among men, however since there are so many varied opinions regarding the missing copper with unfortunately no real solid answers there will always be a passionate debate among men without hard facts. What I can tell you is that the first artificial pigments made by man were the blue derivatives in search of recreating colors of the sky, the ocean, and the heavens. Turquoise, Malachite, and Lapis Lazuli were two minerals that came from the earth but they were very hard to come by. There must have been a small select group of men that devoted their lives to searching, collecting, and experimenting with minerals because of their varied unique nature. The reds, browns, oranges, and yellow ochre pigments became important to early cultures not just for their beauty that was created as they bled from the mountains sides, but also for their protective healing properties. The blue and green minerals were considered more sacred because of their likeness to represent water and air, which was vital to all life. Copper was the replacement to Lapis Lazuli, Turquoise, and Malachite because the copper veins bled oxidized greens and blues, which was their replacement to these sacred stones. For instance, if you have a site with approximately 100,000 stones that were collected from every possible source by this distant culture within their transit region and they had a generous availability to copper; this culture could devote their days to experimenting and recreating the perfect blue pigment; all you really needed was a source for copper, sand, and the ability to harness energy to create extreme heat for refining the copper derivatives. There is plenty of evidence in ancient cultures that showed signs of higher technologies within small isolated pockets across the globe, the problem is that there has been little success in tying them all together.
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Mark P
3/18/2014 10:56:58 am
Do I think the Minoans/Greeks/Phoenicians or whom ever mined the UP and Isle Royal for copper? No, I do not. Do I think that some copper from the UP could of ended up in Europe or the Near East? It's possible I suppose but the only way I could see it happening is as part of a trade network. People in the interior were trading for shells from the coast. Perhaps the people on the coast were trading for items the voyagers had. What that is is anybody's guess. As to the amount of copper removed by these early miners. Let's say it was 1 million pounds. That's 500 tons. At about 560 pounds per cubic foot that's 1800 cubic feet. Or a block 12 feet on a side. Over a 1000 or 1500 years that doable. Did it happen? Most likely not IMO. But then I admit to being willing to accept that its possible the egyptians didn't get everything done with copper chisels and hammer stones.
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Angelos Kotzambasis
4/12/2014 10:41:59 am
Plutarch has documented the conection between Crete and North America.
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4/12/2014 10:51:37 am
Oh, do tell. Please provide the passage from Plutarch, who never mentioned North America,
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Angelos
4/12/2014 01:03:15 pm
http://canada.greekreporter.com/2012/04/21/researcher-claims-ancient-greeks-made-it-to-america-before-columbus/ 4/12/2014 01:11:14 pm
That isn't really a reference to Plutarch. I know the passage well, however. It's actually two sections of the Moralia and refers to Celtic legends of the Sleeping King on three islands; there is nothing that connects them to Canada except imagination:
It isn't even a full moon and the loonies are coming out.
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PS
7/5/2014 05:08:05 am
Most of you are overlooking the obvious. Obviously aliens took the missing copper. Just ask Tsoukalos he has the facts. LOL
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Joshua Sameulson
7/13/2014 10:13:51 am
Spent about a month playing around up that way earlier this year. Man, the locals are really bought into this whole thing and the show obviously is good for tourism! Took the time to check out the sites that where on the show, including the "Minoan" ship glyph which a guy in Copper Harbor gladly drew me a map to get to. I'd come to the conclusion that it's worth checking out this area by some REAL scientists, there's so much left open to mis-interpretation. As to any European ships being there, think of it this way: If you come into the Lake Superior basin from the east, you need to get past Niagara Falls and the rapids at Sault Ste Marie to get there. That would require building two ships minimum. Sure, if you're going to build a ship it's gonna look like one you already know how to build. If you came to the area via the Mississippi river, then you'd build a ship right on Lake Superior. As to the natives, this seems like the most logical choice. Just as any other culture, kingdoms rise and fall. There is no reason the folks living in the area couldn't have been the ones who did all the work, in fact it makes the most sense. Why would you come all the way from Europe to mine? I'm sure the Europeans had trade items and could very well have met the locals along the St Lawrence seaway somewhere to the east. the conclusion from my trip: The folks up that way had a small empire that lasted awhile and something happened to where it disintegrated. Look at world history, there's no reason they couldn't have suffered the same fate all others ultimately do.
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j. davison
7/14/2014 04:31:14 am
Thank-you for your reply. I have thought about what you said and I have thought of a possible alternative to their "Minoan Ship Theory". The Niagra falls region and the St. Lawrence Seaway theory seems like too arduous of a trip to have repeatedly been traveled by this ancient copper culture. Contemplate this alternative theory. Perhaps this ancient copper culture existed into a much deeper period of time than just the Pst Ice Age 5,000 -7,000 year mark. The pieces on my site are in such high volume and the extraordinary technology that these pieces contain is clear evidence that they can not be attributed to the Post Ice Age Migration of Native American Cultures of the Northeast. What if this distinctly extraordinary ancient culture lived quietly practicing their skills first in the Northeast North American seaboard region having the technology and expertise for global networking by first exhausting the copper mines of this region and other similar sites and regions, but as the needs of this distinctly separate culture required more copper for the continuation of their technology they slowly migrated from the ancient copper mines of the Northeast and similar global sites onto the mines of the Upper Michigan region. The technology and use of pigments requiring copper on my Northeastern site indicate that there still remains a huge piece of ancient North American and global history that is yet to be completed. From the evidence on this North Eastern site and the blue pigments found on this site, as well as the other quartz based pigment variations, there is an indication of a sharing of technology that could have been selectively isolated to specific regions on a more global scale and even from perhaps a much earlier timeframe, mirroring similar sites found in North west North Africa and even South Eastern African coastal sites indicating advanced technology for global travel and even perhaps indicating that this was an extremely closed culture that chose to share their technology only with chosen isolated regions of more advanced ancient empires like the Mayan, the Sumerian, and earliest Egyptian Sites. The geologic variation of stones found on this site indicate a culture with a highly developed technology that was careful and protective of their culture to create pigments using ancient blues in a way that was methodically and protectively subtle enough to only have been shared with select pockets of ancient cultures who were developed enough to have the capacity for understanding the importance of what they were being taught, in addition to the necessity for protecting this technology from the less civilized more destructive masses of ancient cultures. The Niagra and St. Lawrence regions were and are certainly an option, but that passage-way seems like only a one time travel passage even in our more advanced modern cultures. I certainly wouldn't want to go that route more than once and it would certainly be only an option when someone is young and more agile against the hardships of seaward travel. Perhaps this small and select ancient culture knew the importance of protecting their technology and they went to great lengths and care to mask the evidence of their technology by choosing only to share their knowledge with cultures ready to accept the responsibility of protecting this knowledge on a global and universal scale. It seems that humans are capable of being extremely self-destructive if left to their own demise. Just a thought. Take Care
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Here we go again talking about pigments rather than metallic copper and who mined and used it. We don't need to be looking at someone's fanciful idea about what might be, could be, or how they'd like it to be. We need to look at what is real and what is substantiated by empirical evidence.
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Here we go again talking about pigments rather than metallic copper and who mined and used it. We don't need to be looking at someone's fanciful idea about what might be, could be, or how they'd like it to be. We need to look at what is real and what is substantiated by empirical evidence.
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Here we go again talking about pigments rather than metallic copper and who mined and used it. We don't need to be looking at someone's fanciful idea about what might be, could be, or how they'd like it to be. We need to look at what is real and what is substantiated by empirical evidence.
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Joshua Sameulson
7/14/2014 08:15:36 am
There are folks who believe in the idea of the copper culture going back to before the last ice age. Granted, it is possible but all we really have is the evidence that is left to go on. Seems to me that an ice age that by most accounts would have had the area under a mile or more of ice would have wiped out any surface evidence of that culture being here. Not to say it couldn't have happened, but substantiating it would be a practical impossibility. My background is as a Land Surveyor and my love of natural philosophy. When something makes sense it makes sense, when it doesn't then we are in a completely different realm. There are parts of science which are counter-intuitive thereby making them difficult to understand, lets not cloud the fact we don't know everything with stories that make for good sci-fi episodes or junk science in the process.
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Actually the term "Copper Culture" is a misnomer, a more apt designation would be "copper Complex". It wasn't a singular culture that was responsible for the multitude of native copper implements and ornaments found today. Rather it was a number of groups responsible for the use of copper over many thousands of years in the Great lakes Region. Copper never replaced lithic implements when copper was used, the copper was merely another tool in their toolbox of implement making materials.
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J Davison
7/15/2014 03:34:58 am
Thank-you for your reply. I believe you have made an excellent point regarding the Ice Age with areas of ice mounting to a mile and above with ice accumulation. I believe that you need to take into consideration a few different points when utilizing an applying the "Mile of Ice" Theory during vast periods of global glaciations. First it is assumed that ice had accumulated during the Ice Ages in the format of a mile of ice like a consistent blanket covering the polar regions. We need to consider where the glaciation line was that extended southward or northward extending from the poles as the Ice was advancing or receding. The annual glaciation line shifted and changed along with the shifting annual temperature variations that took place within the each period we now call the "Ice Ages". The accumulation of the glacial ice was not consistent like a blanket, but the ice responded to diminishing seasonal fluctuations in temperature, the glacial margin line responded to the seasonal fluctuations of temperature. The ice accumulation was also effected by the different elevations of the terrain and the ice flow and accumulation tended to accumulate more in the valleys and lower areas of elevation, and during the seasonal meltdowns the higher elevations would have been the safer place for all life to exist because the higher elevations responded less violent to seasonal meltdowns. The areas that were effected by the fluctuating seasonal glacial meltdowns were also prone to severe seasonal flash floods, as well as violent storms caused by the differences of temperature between the land mass areas that were exposed to seasonal sunlight and the other regions still covered by accumulating or seasonal ice. The Ice Ages were very complicated time periods that experienced many different stages of ice accumulation fluctuations and violent water flows due to seasonal flash meltdowns. The actual thickness of ice varied depending on the fluctuating global temperatures as well as the fluctuating magnetic north and south poles. Each subsequent Ice Age experienced different regions of ice accumulation based on the fluctuating magnetic poles. I believe one of the Ice Ages the magnetic pole was centered around Greenland and then there was an earlier Ice Age that was centered far northwest of that point. The global ice accumulation directly responded to the shifting and fluctuating magnetic poles. I wonder what happened during the periods when the poles violently shifted from the north to the south and the south to the north? I wonder what happened to the weather patterns during that period? I also wonder what happened to the mass weight of all living animals during these violent polar shifts? I also wonder what man could do during to polar shifts, if he lived through them without sickness? Could he jump ten feet high or could he lift a large boulder that was normally immovable, or did he just become sickened like sea sickness? Man could have existed during any one of these Ice Ages by just adjusting his living patterns based on elevation to avoid the fluctuating Ice Flows and extreme flash floods that were experienced in the low lying Northern Valleys effected by the seasonal meltwaters.
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Joshua Sameulson
7/15/2014 06:15:09 am
I'm quite sure there was a time where the glaciers where doing as you described, and I'll also admit that it could be that there have several sets of epochs where the land was uncovered and then re-froze again. If you really want to sink your teeth into something cool, check out the latest research from the Alpena, Mi area. Seems there are large rocks placed along the bottom of the lake in a line that stretches a good way across Lake Huron toward the Georgian Bay. The latest thinking is it was used to get Caribou into a smaller area thereby making them easier to hunt.
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8/8/2014 09:47:07 pm
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Adonis Valamontes
8/10/2014 08:49:27 am
I think you need to educate yourself more on Minoan civilization before you can analyze anyone's video. Your efforts to debunk this video without any real facts from your end. The copper that the Minoans and the Cyprian's processed locally does have a distinct footprint from the Michigan copper. Many studies have been done with todays technology...
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Michigan Relic
8/7/2020 11:09:12 am
You say: "The copper that the Minoans and the Cyprian's processed locally does have a distinct footprint from the Michigan copper. Many studies have been done with todays technology..."
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9/2/2014 10:01:29 pm
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9/17/2014 07:21:34 pm
I am have been studying this topic for a long time. You have provided great information in you post and some things I have not seen in other content I have read by others.
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kevin howard
11/4/2014 04:28:44 am
One question i havent seen here is how the minoans, or anyone, could have sailed that far inland. As far as i know, the only way around niagara falls is welland canal, which was completed in the early 1800's. I am aware that the falls move due to erosion, and they were further downstream 3,000 years ago, but was there even a way to sail around them back then?
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kevin howard
11/4/2014 04:46:21 am
Btw, the only thing i like about wolters show is that it encouages me to research things, i have learned a lot about the minoans and other topics while doung the necessary five minutes of research required to debunk the nonsence aired by the "history" channel.
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Dana
11/4/2014 06:24:21 am
Amen to that Kevin! I'm not impressed with the history channel at all. However it does give folks five minutes of fun researching things we would probably not persue otherwise I guess.
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Dana
11/4/2014 06:15:07 am
Coper was mined there, probably a lot of native coper simply picked up or dug up... But what was it used for, local native cultures probably used some of it for spear or arrow tips I suppose, if traded to others what was it traded for? It was very heavy too... Must have taken numerous trips over thousands of years to empty out the holes early explorers found? Lots of unanswered questions, for such a large deposit of presious materiel not much left in the way of who done it. You would expect this area to be the center of a rather large encampment if not a small city? Maybe just pilfered over several thousand years? Beats me!
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Joshua Sameulson
11/4/2014 08:34:41 pm
Kevin, I'm of the belief the Minoan thing is a hoax at best although I do have an idea on your question. If you couldn't go any further inland but wanted to you'd build another ship, chances are that ship would look like one you already know how to build. Think of the French and British that first came to the Great Lakes, I doubt the ships that sailed Lake Erie and beyond back then looked a heck of a lot different than thier ocean going boats.
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Graham
12/18/2014 01:40:50 am
Someone else has looked into the 'Newberry Tablet' and concluded that America Unearthed may have indulged in a spot of 'bait & switch'.
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kevin
1/31/2015 06:37:46 pm
The crazy thing about this episode.. he never mentions anything about any tribe from the area. You can go in any museum and find copper artifacts from every tribe.
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steve
2/19/2015 01:45:48 pm
I didn't see any evidence analysis of the the minoan Fleet and it's capabilities concerning the transportation of 1.5 billion tons of copper. The resources to accomplish this without a trace is and the lack of impact on native culture is laughable someone needs to watch avatar.
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3/10/2015 01:31:42 am
Awesome article. I'm waiting for your next article
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In 1988 the photos of the Newberry Stone resurfaced, and were found in the Michigan Archives. Dr. Barry Fell President of the Epigraphic society deciphered the tablet he said the tablet was written in ancient Hittite-Minoan. He immediately compared it with the Phaistos Disk from Crete.
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9/7/2015 02:59:37 pm
Curious:
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SailingNewYorkCity
9/7/2015 05:28:02 pm
This is very interesting. I would like to hear what a metals expert can add to this. What areas do contain these elements?
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4/9/2016 03:00:27 pm
Purity of copper doesn't prove anything. Testing for trace elements in native copper, smelted copper or even copper allied with other metals, does. To date not one of the trace element tests have finger printed Old World artifacts to New World mines. When this occurs with Old World artifacts which have clear archaeological histories, we will have empirical evidence, but not until.
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