We open America Unearthed S01E05 “A Deadly Sacrifice” with yet another dramatic recreation. This time we see a man in a pit bathed in blood from what sounds like a bull sacrifice above the pit. After this gory interlude, we move forward to the opening credits. A sweeping green vista emerges and the on-screen graphics inform us that “For more than a century, relics with mysterious symbols have been discovered in Oklahoma.”
Among these was a 500-lb. rock carving unearthed in 2010. The graphics tell us that the carving was of a bull, “a cult symbol… but one from a different era.” Different than what? Oh. “Ancient Egypt.” Yeah, um, no. Bulls were cult symbols everywhere bulls could be found, which included almost all the Old World. But this effectively tells us that the show has a preconceived idea of where we’re going with this “investigation” and is not interested in looking any more broadly than needed.
The “bull carving” arrived in forensic geologist and series star Scott Wolter’s lab in 2011, but we are treated to a dramatic reenactment of the event. The carving is shown at first only in shaky, quick shots, making it hard to get a look at it. It appears to depict a bovine of some sort, with a hump on the back, long and curved horns, and four parallel wavy lines separating the head and forequarters from the back and hindquarters. The art style does not immediately suggest any ancient culture but looks very much to me like an archaizing modern forgery. The wavy lines, which puzzle both Wolter and the Egyptologist, recall the jewelry found around the neck of the Apis bull in romantic nineteenth century illustrations like the one below.
Wolter asks us to trust that the bull carving is ancient, but he provides no evidence in the opening segment to prove this. Instead, Wolter talks to an Egyptologist about the cult of the Apis bull, which was pretty much what it sounds like—the worship of a bull. At one point Wolter confesses that the bull carving could either be really old, or recent and aggressively weathered. We skip over that quickly, though, lest we think too hard about it. Instead, after the Egyptologist explains many reasons why this carving is completely atypical for Egyptians, Wolter plans to go in search of proof of the artifact’s ancient origins. The “Egyptian” theory therefore is unceremoniously abandoned.
So we go off to the river near Tulsa, Oklahoma where the rock was found to pull up some more sandstone rocks. Wolter wants to prove that the carving’s rock was or was not carved from native Oklahoma rock. (It was.) This leads to a staged scene where the “discoverers” of the bull carving announce that five miles away sill more inscriptions and carvings can be found. We’re asked to believe that the young men are leading Wolter to an unfamiliar location they had not visited in a long time, even though the camera was already positioned at the site when they get there. They show off some modern graffiti and an alleged carving of a face that I frankly am unable to see.
Wolter dismisses the whole lot of it as modern, but then, sadly, sees a bunch of lines and claims it’s Ogham writing from Ireland—following Barry Fell, who allegedly “translated” the material decades ago. (This, of course, explains why the show came here: They’re cribbing from Fell.) Since Ogham writing is almost nothing but vertical lines, it’s very easy to imagine Ogham in everything from tool marks to natural crevices. “This looks good!” Wolter says, but I need something more than scratches on rocks to establish that this is (a) Ogham writing, (b) ancient, and (c) produced by traveling Irish.
So we learn the truth: This is another bait-and-switch episode! The putative topic was Egyptians in America, and now we’re on to medieval Celts again. It shouldn’t surprise me, though. Wolter has worked closely with Wayne May and other Mormon apologists who see European influence in America as primarily occurring after the Common Era began (as per the Book of Mormon), so his desire to find medieval artifacts is understandable. Ancient Egyptians mess up the Mormon timeline.
Wolter recognizes this, so he jets off to Ireland (well, in the in-show timeline, anyway; in reality, these scenes were almost certainly shot out of sequence, with the shots of “discovery” and “surprise” recreated later on). Wolter talks to an expert in Ogham writing, Damien McManus, who explains a bit about Ogham writing, early medieval Irish peoples, and the way the position of the lines, not just their shape, is needed to confirm their authenticity. McManus tells Wolter the inscriptions are superficially similar to Ogham, but not likely. Wolter then asks a leading question, hypothetically asking, in essence, if proof of Irish people in America would be proof of Irish people in America by asking about the consequences of confirming that Celts really did carve Ogham writing in America.
At this point I realize that Wolter, if he’s clever, could compare the Oklahoma bull carving to the famous seventh century Pictish Burghead Bull at the British Museum. The wavy lines thus representing the Celtic scrollwork in the original:
Of course this unique carving is the from Picts of Scotland, while Ogham was used by the Irish; however, I’m sure Wolter could have found a way around that. Some Ogham inscriptions have been found in Scotland, which did have extensive cross-colonization with Celtic Ireland.
So, as we headed into the second half of the show, I waited to see if I would be proved right. Sadly, I was not, and it meant that I am apparently a better “alternative” historian than Scott Wolter, without even trying! Oh, and this carving will also serve to show that the later claims that the Celts relied on Egyptian models for their bull art are false, as this is obviously a completely Celtic bull.
We “return” to Oklahoma in stagey scene filmed at a low angle to visit the Anubis Caves in Oklahoma to see more “Ogham” carvings from what the cave explorer he meets calls “Celtic” inscriptions, pronouncing the word like the Boston basketball team rather than with a hard “C.”
This cave, incongruously, supposedly has a carving of Anubis and Irish Ogham writing, which conveniently turned up on in the 1970s, at the height of that decade’s “alternative history” craze. The carvings are extremely crude, and the “Ogham” writing bears nearly no resemblance at all to the genuine Ogham inscriptions we just saw. The Anubis might as easily (and logically) be a coyote.
The cave researcher claims this is a “monument to their [the Celts’] god Mithras.” This immediate gets my antennae twitching since Mithras (the Hellenized name for the Persian god Mithra) was an oriental god, not a Celtic one. His cult came from the East and was popular among Roman soldiers before the Christian era. But his cult died out around the fourth century CE. The Celts did not worship Mithras as a rule, though in Britain there were Celts initiated into the Mithraic Mysteries. As a god of oracles, Mithras shared traits with the Celtic god Ogma, and Sir James George Frazer saw a parallel between them; however, the Cambridge Historical Encyclopedia of Great Britain and Ireland makes plain that Mithraism was a very minor cult in Britain, primarily among soldiers, and did not extend to Ireland. Therefore, Ogham and Mithraism should not be found together in any significant way.
From here we get another whopper that ties us back to the opening scene of the hour. We hear from “comparative religions expert” Joe Rose (of whom I can find no information) that the Mithraic mysteries involved throwing the initiate into a pit to cover him in the blood of a bull slain above him, a taurobolium (bull-sacrifice in Latin). This is false and confuses the Roman bull sacrifice (taurobolium) with the Mithraic myth of the god slaying the cosmic bull (called Tauroctony) from whose blood life emerges. The taurobolium was part of the Magna Mater (Cybele) cult after the second century CE, not the Mithras cult. There is no literary or archaeological evidence for a Mithraic baptism in bull’s blood. For most of its history, Mithraism was a secret cult, practiced at night in tight quarters without state sanction. There was no place to fit a giant bull, let alone one per initiate. In fact, the early Christian writer Tertullian (De Baptismo 5.1), who had every reason to play up the salacious aspects of pagan cults, tells us that the Mithras cult used water for their baptisms: “For washing [with water] is the channel through which they are initiated into some sacred rites—of some notorious Isis or Mithras.” Nevertheless, this “fact” is used to explain the bull carving from the episode’s start: the wavy lines are “blood” from a bull sacrifice!
Equally wrong is Rose’s idea that the Mithras cult had anything to do with the Apis bull of Egypt. Mithraism was a Roman imperial cult modeled on (with alterations) Persian or Zoroastrian rites (Mithras, recall, originates in the Persian god Mithra), not Egyptian ones. The Romans had plenty of mythological bulls of their own; they did not need to borrow Egypt’s to plug into a completely unrelated, borrowed, and reformed Persian cult. If they wanted an Egyptian bull, they would have turned to the Isis cult or that of Serapis (the Hellenized version of Osiris). Rose is also wrong that Mithras was a sun god; in Roman iconography, he shared a banquet with the sun (Sol); he was not himself the sun. Don't believe me? Here's the banquet:
Rose reiterates his mistaken beliefs about Mithraism while visiting the Anubis Cave with Wolter, and I realize that everything Rose says about Mithraism is derived from late nineteenth and early twentieth century Christ-myth writers who tried to turn Mithraism into a point-for-point duplicate of Christianity to help deny the claims of the Christian mythos. (They claimed, largely, that Christ copied Mithras, though in truth there is no evidence of Mithraism before Christianity.) Rose appears to be repeating information gleaned from Edward Carpenter’s classic, but wildly inaccurate, Christian and Pagan Creeds: Their Origin and Meaning (1920, pp. 43ff.), which includes all of Rose’s claims about Mithraic cult rites, including his largely imaginary connection with astronomy and the zodiac. If not this book, it must have been one of those Carpenter borrowed from or which borrowed from him.
Rose looks at the crude carvings in the Anubis Cave and declares a silly little stick figure a “clear” representation of a Mithraic sun god—despite there being nothing like it in real Mithraic art, which was Classical, not stylized, because it was a Roman cult. A tiny little carving of a coyote is declared an Egyptian Anubis, despite the obvious problem that Mithraism has no jackal-god and no relationship to Egyptian death cults.
So Wolter and Rose watch the sun shine on the little carvings and they see it as evidence of a precise alignment signifying the sun god and Anubis…do what, exactly? They have a shadow fall on them at sunset on the autumn equinox (and, by definition the spring one, and probably nights for several weeks before and after both: the sun does not change position that much from day to day), but there is nothing in this “alignment” that indicates anything more than a shadow passing over these figures. [Note: As many have pointed out in the comments below, I am wrong about this. The alignment appears only on the equinoxes. However, this provides no evidence of any Celtic or European influence as anyone could have marked the walls with chalk, paint, or coal on the equinox by observing where the shadow fell and then carved the figures from the outline. No advanced astronomy needed.]
And Wolter didn’t even compare the “bull” from the episode’s beginning to the real Celtic bull figure!
Wolter carefully omits that not a single one of these “Celtic” artifacts was actually dated by any secure means to 500 CE, nor could he find a single genuine Celtic artifact to support his claims. All we have are some ambiguous carvings, almost certainly modern, some fake comparative religion from an apparently ignorant “expert,” and a whole lot of wishful thinking backed up with emotionally manipulative music designed to dull reason and allow emotion to overwhelm critical thought.
1/19/2013 06:37:33 am
Excellent review! This show tries though doesn't it? Throughout the program though I kept wondering how a bovine carving itself could have been produced in ancient America. Was it done from memory or are we to believe they brought bovines with them? Also, to me the nervous nature of one of the young 'discoverers' of the bull (the one with the sunglasses) at the sight of the discovery points to a forgery. And the Anubis cave 'bull' sure looked a lot like a Bison.
nervous guy with sunglasses
1/19/2013 06:35:02 pm
hope you tune in next week too.
1/29/2015 12:29:40 pm
It looked more like a brahma bull than a bison.
10/22/2020 06:38:47 am
This review cannot be taken seriously at all, due to its imagined and totally biased approach to the Apis Bull and pre-conceived idea that Celtic people are all different as well as preconceived ideas about Scottish and Irish ancestral origins. I have been doing some research over the years and have evidence that the pre origins of Ireland were from Spain and Turkey and before this from Noah's son Japeth so in otherwords Old Civilization Hebrews or Jews who founded Ireland, and parts of Scotland and the British Isles. In some of my articles, its believed that Gaelic is a form of early Phoenician which most likely lent itself to the "Egyptian" aspect of this cave drawing. If you can get away from thinking red haired Irish etc and view facts you may conclude something completely different to this article.
1/19/2013 07:16:28 am
"At this point I realize that Wolter,if he’s clever". Wishful thinking,Jason. Scott Wolter is a genuine scientist & Ron Jeremy is a real actor. I expect him to join the Royal Shakespeare Company sooner than later. I dont know why, but Wolter reminds me of
1/19/2013 07:19:31 am
I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw a coyote, and who failed to see any sort of meaningful alignment. This show is going to get old pretty fast. Personally, I'm hoping for an Ancient Aliens crossover episode.
12/2/2016 05:17:38 pm
Hear the words of Grace - otherwise known as Grania - and I am a real Celt, from Ireland as ever was. There is no record to show that any Mithraic cult ever gained any influence in Ireland - this was a god of the Roman soldiers and their mercenaries, some of whom came from Ireland, to our sorrow! Our folk plagued the Britons, and in doing so produced Saint Patrick, because our lads nabbed him for a slave while raiding . We plagued them and used them while we could. But they did the same to us.
1/30/2019 02:24:31 pm
I've never heard of any bull sacrifice or mithra in Ireland either. Now it might be he's confusing the Bretons of Brittany ,France with Ireland. Not sure if the Bretons are a renmant of a celtic tribe or not. But being in France they would have maybe had some contact with romans. I'm hungarian -german. I don't what my mother's people worshiped there during the time of Atilla the Hun, but my dad was german and they worship the Sacred Oak of Odin . That was until St.Boniface came over and chopped it down according eyewitness accounts in historical records, and them wacked them upside the head with the cross. I personally believe ancient people could have visited the Americas But whether I believe all these theories is another matter.
1/19/2013 08:53:10 am
Regarding Joe Rose-- He is a bookbinder with ties to Wolter: http://jrrbookworks.com/2012/11/29/a-binder-a-religions-expert-a-tv-show/
1/19/2013 10:10:50 am
Thank you for that information. So my hunch was right: He's another amateur mystery-monger whose secondhand recitation of outdated books is passed off as "expertise."
3/29/2013 06:55:05 pm
Jason,as a kid a friend of mine had a mockup of the enterprise bridge in his basement even better than the kids in Galaxy Quest.Perhaps you,or whoever,could take all the different views of the "LAB" from every episode off your HD,blow em up and pass em around to friends as a game.Find Waldo!!! Ask em to identify everything.Who knows what you would find? Contrails in old westerns? Items from Dumbledores study? THE ACTUAL 3D SET SPOCK PLAYED CHESS ON in the back corner.
1/19/2013 04:40:32 pm
1/19/2013 05:46:25 pm
1/19/2013 05:49:48 pm
This is one of the discoverers of the stone shown on America Unearthed last night. Let me just start by saying that you really don't know what you are talking about in regards to the bull stone. My little brother and I did in fact find this stone while looking for arrowheads and such in the river. I am out in the rivers, creeks, and fields almost every weekend. At no point did either of us claim to know what the stone was and what it meant, we merely found it and are trying to find answers. I have numerous witnesses from the day we found it along with pictures of us on that day. Why on earth would we carve a rock with a picture of a bull that we could not ourselves explain? Why would we place it on a massive stone that, believe me, was not easy to transport and not on a much smaller rock. As for my brother being nervous because it is a forgery, now that is really a stretch man. Don't you realize that a lot of people out there would be nervous being filmed for the first time in their lives or are you not just doing the same thing you have been complaining about and making up your own conclusion based on your preconceived opinions. What you dont' seem to realize is that the show is trying to put these things out there so people can see them and hopefully open their minds to the possibilities, which you prove is probably futile so in a sense you are no better than anyone on the show, any of the academics who refuse to even look at these things, or a religious zealot that thinks the world is six thousand years old despite all the evidence to the contrary. For someone who does not have anything useful to say about them you sure spend a lot of time watching these shows, i would suggest you take up a new hobby that you can actually contribute something to and not simply try to debase others. As for Turkey mt. Neither of us had seen the carvings before, but yes tv crews do like to have the camera in position before they film, that is kind of the whole point of them being there right? I personally did not agree with the assessment of Turkey mountain, the face is there and in my humble opinion is the most important of the carvings. I have a book about the turkey mountain carvings so I knew they were there but had never found them before that day, and might I add that we spent several hours looking for them. I am not in agreement with the Ogham at Turkey Mt or at Anubis caves. I also think that the carving looks more like a coyote than anything but as you saw we were not a part of that portion of the show. I majored in History, have been on six archaeological digs, and have been hunting for and collecting artifacts for over ten years so even though I might have appeared so I am not just some redneck who stumbled across a rock in the river. Do I think the rock proves Egyptians or anyone else for that matter was here several thousands of years ago? No. But it is genuine and a real mystery that has yet to be explained, and that is the point you seem to be missing. A rock can not ever prove anything beyond doubt, but it is another piece of the puzzle. As you stated yourself my brother and I found this three years ago before America Unearthed was even a concept and we had no idea who Scott Wolter was, so to imply that we faked this to be on a show, well you just disproved your own theory there. I myself can not draw more than stick figures let alone carve them in stone. The show did however fail to mention the writing on the stone. There is writing above the bull and has been looked at by several linguists and epigraphers that believe it to be a hebrew version of the Phoenician alphabet from 3 to 4 thousand years ago. I guess what I am getting at is don't assume you know anything about this because you really do not, not for lack of intelligence but simple ignorance. Think what you want about the show and our episode but please don't assume you know what happened from day one of us finding it, you don't. To accuse someone you know nothing about of attempting to trick or deceive is wrong and for someone who writes constantly about how bad this show is because they have no proof and do not approach the subjects scientifically, well you sir have just done the same things. You heard it from the horses mouth. The stone is real, but what it is and means is still a mystery and unfortunately will always be. I have had to think about that every day for the last three years but I am starting to accept it, but I am not a liar and would never knowingly deceive anyone with something like this. I have not made a cent of this find and never will so why would I go through all the trouble if not genuinely interested in the truth. The fact is History is not a set of rules, what we know and understand of it is dynamic and if you do not know that you should probably not get involved, if you know it all why watch the show, why pick up a book and read it, why try to do something about it and come up with your ow
1/19/2013 06:44:02 pm
I suspect your 13 yr old brother of being the author of this obnoxious decoction of insipid rubbishes.If you are willing to take as Gospel the pseudo scientific garbage shown on America Unearthed, I happen to have the corpse of a dead alien in my refrigerator & a bridge to Magonia to sell. Again I am not accusing anyone of forgery, I have the solution to your "mystery", the Ancient Aliens must be responsible....
1/19/2013 06:56:16 pm
Well, you cant even understand what i just wrote so who is the real idiot here?
13 year old brother
1/19/2013 06:58:40 pm
i suspect your evidence is wrong, you're off on the age. there's simply no way to make any explanation to you all on a blog 99.9% of humanity will never read. you more than likely skipped through what Nick wrote and got frustrated with it. if only you were the ones that "forged" the rock and we were the ones online bitching. :)
1/19/2013 06:59:38 pm
And i think you mean concoction.
I don't like the show because I can see its pretty shaky without even fact checking. Its a bit obvious like shooting fish in a barrel, but when I do decide to ask google for grins and I come to this "debunking site" which....lets be honest wouldn't be here without stupid shows like this America Unearthed and Ancient Aliens,
12/21/2013 11:35:17 am
1. you dont speak for everyone here
12/30/2013 09:11:30 am
I know "Pat" isn't ever going to read this, but I had to anyways:
1/19/2013 10:33:05 pm
I appreciate you visiting my blog, and I thank you for your comments. However, please show me where I accused you specifically of faking the rock. (Yes, I put quotation marks around "discoverers" but that is because the show provided no evidence to demonstrate that your story is true. As we have seen with others on the show, we cannot assume this.) This is not an either-or situation that either you faked the rock or the rock is genuinely ancient; the rock could have been carved a century ago (when such fakes were mass produced) or any time, really, prior to your arrival at the site.
1/20/2013 12:20:45 am
Jason,This time I hope I wont only speak for myself but also on behalf of all the readers of your blog.You are such decent and well mannered man. So many times I witnessed readers violently attacking or insulting you, but you never reacted in a rude or non respectful fashion.
2/1/2013 12:33:27 pm
2/2/2013 09:59:48 am
What is it about these conspiracy theorist, mystic, snake-oil types that makes them incapable of writing coherently? Learn to use page breaks. And stop trusting Scott Wolter, he's a fraud.
2/2/2013 10:00:55 am
*line breaks. Now I'm losing my ability to write coherently.
11/2/2013 07:07:09 pm
It's true , Wolter is completely incompetent and the producers should have never allowed this unfounded sensational BS on television . However you should never on your life or love of country direct an insult towards Mr Alex Jones or former Gov Jessie Ventura . Mr Ventura could definitely kick your ass !!!
3/15/2013 05:02:05 pm
The show was very interesting. I'm not sure if the bull or the cult of Mythra can be tied to Celtic Culture, but..I'm sure Celts were familiar with the Roman culture in Britain. Remember, St Patrick was a Roman citizen taken by the Celts to Ireland. So it's possible the Cult WAS accepted by Celts, just not documented in the history books. It's also possible that some of them escaped to North America when the Christian majority began stamping them out. All and all the show was VERY interesting. Thank you for your contribution. I hope there IS a way he can date the bull carving on the rock you found.
3/17/2013 05:49:45 pm
I don't doubt the veracity of your claim of finding this stone with the carving. I just doubt Mr. Wolper's expertise in explaining to you where it came from and why. It isn't any reflection on the finder of the thing at all. I am merely at odds with what he represented as "truth" in his televiision show. I'm so sorry you feel that way, but I have studied these things, in fact I've seen others similar at the British Museum, but the reasons why he gives you just don't pan out with the available research and is so cleverly contrived as to be transperently fake. As I said, I'm sorry you feel as if you are being attacked, but it isn't you at all. Thank you for your article and your stand, it is an interesting one.
1/30/2019 02:34:16 pm
Do any of you watch the Curse of Oak Island on the History Channel with the Lagina brothers?They take finds that they have made to to various canadian universities to be anylized. They even sent some information about the lead cross they discovered to an mining expert in Germany. I'm sure the Smithsonian or some lab attached to a college or university, etc. could test the stone with the bull carved on it.Don't know why they haven't dug any thing up in the Anubis cave.Surely the carvers if ancient, might have left some metal tools or other things behind.
3/17/2013 05:50:09 pm
I don't doubt the veracity of your claim of finding this stone with the carving. I just doubt Mr. Wolper's expertise in explaining to you where it came from and why. It isn't any reflection on the finder of the thing at all. I am merely at odds with what he represented as "truth" in his televiision show. I'm so sorry you feel that way, but I have studied these things, in fact I've seen others similar at the British Museum, but the reasons why he gives you just don't pan out with the available research and is so cleverly contrived as to be transperently fake.
3/17/2013 05:50:56 pm
I don't doubt the veracity of your claim of finding this stone with the carving. I just doubt Mr. Wolper's expertise in explaining to you where it came from and why. It isn't any reflection on the finder of the thing at all. I am merely at odds with what he represented as "truth" in his televiision show. I'm so sorry you feel that way, but I have studied these things, in fact I've seen others similar at the British Museum, but the reasons why he gives you just don't pan out with the available research and is so cleverly contrived as to be transperently fake. This is no way an effort to disprove your find.
3/17/2013 05:54:25 pm
I don't know why three copies of this reply showed up, it's a glitch. There was only supposed to be one. I tried to get it to post but it didn't go until the third try, after repeated attempts at cutting the wordage down. Or, so I thought. Perhaps it did and I just didn't see it. My apologies for anybody having to read it more than once.
6/5/2013 03:32:32 am
I guess we all acccept that your find was genuine, as I am sure your intentions were in the show. Nobody is criticizing you. You were just unfortunate to have been used by a Walter Mitty like character, (maybe Mr. Magoo!) who used your find to make sensationalist hypothectical claims, without scientific proof or backing, to make money and gain notoriety through a TV show. I think the majority of the viewers have dismissed him and his claims as coming from another planet, and I am sure before the series ends he will probably try and prove that the USA was founded by aliens.
1/11/2014 11:25:09 am
I don't know if you are still checking here, but I can tell you what your mystery drawing is. It's not a bull, at least not of the cattle form. It's an antelope. As a biologist that was screamingly obvious from the first moment I saw it. My jaw dropped when I turned the sound on (had it on mute while working) and heard everyone calling it a bull. It looks maybe a few hundred years old at most for something left outside, but it is still a very cool finding. I hope knowing the animals identity helps clear some stuff up for you xD
1/11/2014 12:02:37 pm
Nick, I thought your comments were well constructed and I understand your need for answers. I think any of us would after finding such an interesting discovery. I also understand that mainstream scientists are often close minded. But I think the people here are suggesting that just because your doctor won't listen to you doesn't mean you run out and put your faith in a snake oil salesman.
11/1/2014 11:05:09 pm
I think that the America Unearthed team are close and should be commended for their efforts, they need to extend their team into experts on the myths behind the symbols. It takes a group effort, and they've gotten further than most. But they are misreading some of the clues, and not seeing other clues, but not their fault, as it's not their expertise. The real backstories are years of specialist research, combined with other specialist research. Most of what we've been taught in school is wrong, and it's why we have a lot of problems today. Can't learn from past mistakes if we don't know what the past was.
1/19/2013 05:55:15 pm
Own theory. Just keep regurgitating someone else's information that you pulled from google, we are not impressed.
1/19/2013 07:04:38 pm
Wait are you saying that we made tea out of the rock, or scott, or the film crew? If so, then my fault decoction would be correct.
1/19/2013 08:17:29 pm
12/21/2013 11:39:55 am
You would perhaps be less of an obnoxious pos if you put down the cookies, got off the keyboard and get a life. Im sure most people here would be glad to have you find some other outlet for your venom.
1/19/2013 08:39:56 pm
"suspect your evidence is wrong, you're off on the age. there's simply no way to make any explanation to you all on a blog 99.9% of humanity will never read. you more than likely skipped through what Nick wrote and got frustrated with it. if only you were the ones that "forged" the rock and we were the ones online bitching. :)"
1/22/2013 06:27:29 am
"You are wrong,it is about statistics,99.9% of humanity (especially Americans) is more likely to believe the crap shown on America Unearthed"
1/22/2013 07:22:16 am
The "anti American" argument is a canard but you are more than welcome to stick to it,especially since I am not an American citizen
1/22/2013 09:00:06 am
1/22/2013 04:49:11 pm
9/17/2013 08:06:47 am
“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.”
1/20/2013 06:10:22 am
you have to keep in mind that the rock was NOT available for filming at the river, it was a lapse in time between finding it and filming. would it have made sense to fly a 500 lb rock down to the river just so we could "pretend" to find it? we had already discovered it and Scott already knew about it, so why make it look like we're dramatic discoverers? would that even have made a difference in the episode? the reason Scott was the one to do the investigation on it is because he is the only one that was seriously interested in it. we tried emailing many people, even Universities, around the country and it was ignored. alot of time was spent trying to even hear back from anyone. for the record, we had no idea what this episode was going to be about and we watched it for the first time like each of you all. we were asked to be apart of it and show Scott the areas of interest and that's all. we do not want to spread "misinformation" by being in the episode, but because from here it will get exposure and hopefully other experts will be able to investigate it. we just want to know if anyone in the world can tell us what the damn thing is without going in circles with theory after theory.
1/20/2013 07:41:28 am
Aaron.No one is accusing you of being dishonest (maybe I did) you are probably guilty of being too enthusiastic & naive. Scott Wolter & the production team of America Unearthed are using individuals like yourself to their own advantages. They are running an extremely profitable business.You mentioned " whoever could possibly have forged something like that would have to be pretty good to get it past Scott, everyone else involved in examining it, and the History Channel to get it aired.....".I am afraid you are not paying attention,but I wont debunk each and every episodes of America Unearthed,Jason Colavito did a pretty solid job.Read the previous entries and make your own opinion. As for Scott Wolter credibility and professional integrity, I call it a malicious joke,I watched him doing field works & investigations & there is a word which immediately comes to mind,farcical. Wolter is utterly ignorant of history,ancient cultures & anthropology, & allowing someone like him doing archeological excavations & ethno-anthropological researches is akin to have Lady Gaga performing brain surgery.
3/14/2013 10:55:12 am
Jason has been wrong on other occasions and is himself not an expert so singing his praises may be as misguided as some of you contend the show is.
1/20/2013 11:52:07 am
I appreciatie what you are saying, Aaron, but I fear your trust in Scott Wolter is misplaced. I've spoken with several geologists, and they all agree that Wolter's methodology is flawed and that his conclusions do not follow from the evidence. Wolter did not earn any advanced degree in geology, nor is he trained in examining ancient materials. His work before being a TV star focused on the structural integrity of concrete structures--a completely different field.
9/17/2013 08:20:11 am
That's odd. One would need to be a civil/structural engineer (or at least work for and be under the direct supervision of one) in order to have anything to do with the structural integrity of any kind of man-made structure (concrete included), and not a geologist. In fact, a lot of legislation has been passed forbidding geologists from doing any structural design or inspection work at all. However, they may inspect, test, and consult in regard to the geological substrate(s) BELOW the proposed or failing structure.
1/28/2013 07:30:47 am
I don't think you and your brother did anything wrong other than stumble upon an interesting carving that Wolter used to advance his kooky theories. As for there being no track record with the show, it's only taken a few episodes for a clear pattern to emerge. Anything interesting to Wolter will be repurposed in any way he sees fit to match to whatever his theory of the moment happens to be.
12/7/2013 01:34:45 am
II have yet to watch this episode, but I will shortly. I'm curious - would you agree to be on the show again knowing what you know about it now?
1/22/2013 06:01:11 am
Good review. What is the world is a "comparative religions expert"? The guy takes a five second look at the cave and goes yep that legit and why didn't he do any more detail sample research on the stone slab?
1/22/2013 10:33:14 am
In theory, a comparative religions expert would be someone with deep knowledge and academic training in religious studies, with the ability to compare across religions; however, the "expert" in question is a book binder with no formal training and--judging by this episode--only the most superficial acquaintance with his subject.
1/22/2013 12:25:49 pm
A book binder? Wow, that's ridiculous but expected with History channel's recent track record. You have to ask yourself, Do they any KOINED of intergrity?
1/22/2013 01:54:10 pm
I am witness to several instances where professional archaeologists, cloaked in institutional dogma and utilizing peer review as a weapon of suppression, have thwarted any true scientific investigation of the Anubis Caves. This is not in defense of America Unearthed's host Scott Wolter or the production company Committee Films. It is from extensive videotaping of the Anubis Cave and related petroglyphs, rock art and archaeoastronomical alignments along the Arkansas River and tributaries that unquestionably support the theories, superficially presented in the sensationalized episode, "A Deadly Sacrifice".
1/22/2013 10:27:16 pm
Please understand that there is a difference between reviewing a TV show and whether it presented enough information to prove its claims and actually investigating the ancient sites it depicts. I have never been to the cave and cannot speak to the alignment; I can only speak to whether the claims as discussed on the program made good sense and matched known facts. This is not the same as actually investigating the cave, which, as a non-expert in archaeo-astronomy, I am certainly not qualified to do, nor would I ever claim that I could.
12/24/2013 02:41:51 am
Both my mom & dad's family's have been in that General area in OKLA for several generations-I've climbed around caves & in such during summer vacations & there are many, Many little easliy missed areas with old (old looking) carvings - that much I can tell y'all - IS Fact.
10/29/2013 06:24:46 am
I agree completely.
10/29/2013 06:26:14 am
With Mr. Monahan that is...
1/22/2013 05:47:42 pm
This was refreshing to read. I generally don't expect much from the History Channel these days, and America Unearthed hasn't disappointed in that regard, but this episode seemed offensively negligent.
1/22/2013 06:06:49 pm
Skeptics of the Anubis Cave archaeoastronomy all,
1/22/2013 07:49:39 pm
"Deal with it dogmatic archaeologists and anthropologists, your world is insular, clubby, aristocratic, authoritarian and your views largely obsolete. Continue to ignore new data at your own peril."
1/23/2013 03:11:47 am
1/23/2013 06:13:52 am
Mr Kean Scott Monahan
2/1/2014 05:32:17 pm
Didn't the professor from Trinity College ask Mr. Wolter to send him photographic evidence of the Ohgam in the Anubis Caves. It seems he even pointed Mr. Wolter in that direction.
1/25/2013 07:22:30 am
sadly, I saw the first in this series and started asking myself questions...it seems that each episode has gotten more and more questions of hype and non-connection to reality. I remember when the History channel actually dealt with HISTORY (yes, I am old) but each year the channel falls deeper and deeper into bizzare trash..stuff cheap to produce..just drag a camera to a pawn shop, a boat or a job site. they even have aliens spreading the Justinian plague and the Spanish flu...the "former" Science channels do the same. I may just give up on TV in general. it seems designed for boobs.
7/12/2013 12:12:59 pm
jeanne, I had the same hope and anticipated some interesting alternative archaeology in this series. However, the leaps in logic are too egregious to ignore. The alternative claims ignore and even disrespect ancient cultures, such as mixing up Egyptians, Celts, and Romans. Even for an amateur enthusiast like me, with my keen interest in enigma artifacts, this show was so hard to swallow that I had to spit it out. That said, no disrespect to all the sincere folks seeking answers to their mysteries. That kind of intellectual curiosity I definitely honor!
Phillip M. Leonard
1/25/2013 07:48:07 am
Some of your criticisms of the “America Unearthed” show titled “A Deadly Sacrifice” may have some validity. However, I would like to speak to some I believe do not.
1/25/2013 09:14:14 am
Thank you for your comments. Let's begin by clarifying that I am examing America Unearthed as an episode of television, and my criticisms revolve around the information (or lack thereof) presented in the program. I have not been to the cave and cannot speak to it as an ancient site.
2/4/2013 06:58:04 pm
Hard 'C', derived from the Greek, "Keltoi". You can't get an 'S' sound from a 'K'.
2/4/2013 10:30:35 pm
It's true, but in the nineteenth century, before the "new pronunciation" of Latin, it was traditional to pronounce the "c" in Latin words as an "s" when followed by a vowel, and Celt does have its Latin form. That said, in the case of Celt, it's never been pronounced with an "s," unlike, say, Cerberus.
terry the censor
2/6/2013 05:12:28 am
> William McGlone and I researched hundreds of purported inscriptions in the United States
Phillip M. Leonard
1/25/2013 09:17:19 am
All of my reply was not picked up by your site so I am sending it in sections.
1/25/2013 10:40:55 am
I appreciate your comments, but surely you would agree that you have far exceeded artistic license in reading the two curved lines appearing above the coyote's head as "like the White Crown of Egypt." It could easily be interpreted as any number of things. You can call the hook emerging from the back an Egyptian flail, but why would it be emerging from his back? (I don't have the book in question, but I assume you are referring to the image of a recumbent jackal seated with a flail between his paws at an angle, so that the end rises backward over his back. This is not at all similar to the coyote picture and lacks the important signifyer: the ankh.) And why would "Anubis" have what appears to be an erect penis? You are seeing what you want to see in the image.
1/25/2013 11:09:56 am
1/25/2013 12:03:48 pm
Yeah, that's me: out to humiliate and destroy alternative beliefs out of sheer spite. It couldn't possibly be because the drawings are indistinguishable in style from Native American cave art and bear no resemblance to anything Celtic.
1/25/2013 12:51:13 pm
1/25/2013 01:55:55 pm
My selected authorities? So, "authorities" that say what you want are good, but the vast number that do not are prima facie part of a conspiracy against you?
1/25/2013 05:18:31 pm
That "very interesting debate" stems directly from Dr. Stanford's challenge re: Clovis-first to the establishment. By and large, institutional American archaeologists are being dragged kicking and screaming down the kelp coastal waterways. Otherwise, what dogma has been overturned by peer review since the 1940s, as TIME magazine emphasized in their 3/13/2006 cover story?
1/25/2013 10:35:39 pm
You must have a very different experience with academia than I. The scholars I have known have always been open to new ideas, though rigorous in the demand for evidence. Any one of them would be thrilled to find evidence of an unexplored chapter in American history. As for Clovis-first, I was discussing PACIFIC sea-voyages, along the now-sunken coast, not an ATLANTIC crossing, as proposed by Dennis Stanford. His claims met criticism because the numbers don't work out: The Clovis points are simply too young to have anything to do with Solutrean.
1/26/2013 03:34:36 am
In your original post on this thread, you stated:
1/26/2013 03:59:43 am
Far be it from me to point out that jackals and domestic dogs are different, but they are. Nor is the Mithraic dog a deity.
Phillip M. Leonard
1/25/2013 09:18:41 am
This is the last section.
2/1/2014 05:47:08 pm
Okay, so what did the Ogham writing say? You are the expert, so just tell us what the writing said.
Phillip M. Leonard
1/25/2013 09:19:35 am
This is the last section.
Phillip M. Leonard
1/25/2013 09:20:12 am
This is the last section.
1/25/2013 10:51:07 am
I am much confused. The Celts came from Asia Minor (presumably the Galatians?), but they were using early medieval Irish writing? I don't think you can have it both ways since Irish writing isn't found in Asia Minor.
1/25/2013 05:54:17 pm
I was offended when he went to the museum and saw actual Ogham, which was CLEARLY explained, and then went to the cave and said, "Yup! That looks like Ogham." It made me think they consider their viewers to be crazy stupid, or else he's just crazy stupid. They were both lines but that was the only similarity.
1/28/2013 07:41:36 am
The thing that got me is how no two things that Wolter presented looked anything alike. The various bulls were all totally different and obviously not done by the same people at anywhere close to the same time. The "Ogham" writing was just lines. And stranger still was the fact the one authentic Ogham example we're shown is vertical while all Wolter's supposed examples appear to be horizontal. He never addresses that, maybe because he didn't notice!
1/25/2013 06:44:54 pm
Funny that this so called history show and evidence of knowledge withheld, proves more about our current state of education and de-evolution back to ass scratching monkeys. How else can you explain this, Ancient Aliens and Fox News.
1/26/2013 04:27:10 am
The show is pure entertainment. Keep fearing those pesky things called peer reviewed journals, Wolter! They are out to get you.
We've been watching this show the way we'd watch a car crash - which is pretty much what it is. Dude's qualifications as a forensoc geologist have nothing to do with these shows. Really fascinated by his Indiana Jones persona, but already sick of him wearing shorts everywhere.
1/26/2013 08:56:02 am
The dumbing down of America is complete.....Fox News and these implausible "history" shows have won!
1/30/2013 04:32:00 pm
Jason, you really miss what is important with the silly show - namely, that it gets the average person to think about alternative theories however faulty the evidence and conclusions. It's entertainment, but it also reflects the deep distrust most people have with academia. Few accept what is said in the program at face value. If they are curious, they find your site and compare what they have watched with your criticisms and continue to read further. Yet, your arrogance will turn anyone's stomach. The stone slab found in the Arkansas river was fascinating, and the caves even more so. I think they are quite old and worth serious examination. The point - the show is a starting point for looking at the evidence, not an end in itself and certainly not a reason for refusing to ask questions.
1/30/2013 10:30:50 pm
The problem, of course, is that only a very small percentage of viewers will ever do research to learn more; most will simply accept (or not care to challenge) the program's views as correct because thy're on TV. I also fail to see how I am the one who is being arrogant; arrogance would be claiming that one has identified a worldwide conspiracy to suppress the truth and that one's superficial understanding of history is both true and should overturn the work of thousands of dedicated investigators over hundreds of years on flimsy proofs based on little more than guesswork and "feelings."
1/30/2013 11:34:06 pm
I have come to understand that, yes, you do not feel arrogant in asserting the ordained gatekeepers of "known facts", American archaeology, is pure as the driven snow in its motives. That's the problem, they generally aren't. Biases, as former Colorado Highway archaeologist John Gooding openly expressed on my TV roundtable, without personally investigating the Anubis site rehashing wrong analysis of others similarly hellbent to suppress diffusionism, are endemic in the profession. You don't want to admit to this, preferring to attack the motives of those who oppose you. You have found convenient excuses, but that doesn't make you correct. It makes you arrogant and that you fail to recognize this is wholly consistent with delusions of grandeur.
1/31/2013 09:38:47 am
I started doubting this review as much I doubted the show when I got to the part about the alignment on the equinox. You are far too dismissive of it, and I don't even think I need to mention why since I think others have done it above. As an engineer with both professional and personal interests in astrophysics I can say you are dead wrong when you imply the alignment is just a shadow passing over the carvings, implying it could happen any day any time. That doesn't mean some forger or prankster didn't just sit there and mark up the wall at the right time, because that may well be what happened, but you really made me doubt everything else you had written when I got to the fairly ignorant and incorrect statements made when dismissing the solar alignment.
1/31/2013 10:06:50 am
I'm sorry that this made you doubt; no one is correct 100% of the time, and as you note the alignment does not provide any evidence for Celtic involvement. Anyone could have been there on any given equinox and marked up the wall.
2/12/2013 09:20:53 am
The carvings on the wall looked like they were not eroded by the elements, which if that old should be somewhat harder to see properly. But its hard to tell by watching on TV. There are things that just cannot be explained however because there will always be people who are willing to watch and give it a second thought and those who refuse to believe anything other than what's written in a history book.
2/12/2013 09:26:00 am
Not trying to start anything here but the Guys who found the artifact in the River would have to be pretty Bored to fake something like this as well why pick this particular carving?
2/12/2013 09:27:28 am
No one accused them of faking anything. That carving could have been made at any time before they found it, including during the 19th century wave of hoax carvings.
2/13/2013 06:37:40 pm
I saw this episode tonight and it made me feel sick and sad. I live in western Arkansas and I was interested in the bull carving since it was near home for me. However, I am well read in Roman Mithraism as well as ancient Celtic religions, Egyptology, and Ogham script. I am not a scientist or archaeologist but both fields interest me and I studied some of both fields in college. There is a cave near where I live that has a native american carving of a human figure with a "rayed head" and looks similar to the "Anubis Cave" figure. There are also carvings of bulls and something that looks like the sun. There are also vertical scratches in the rock. All of these elements seem to be common types of figures and designs drawn by Native Americans, some possibly dating back to ice-age and post-ice age periods. Why do people just assume the vertical marks are Ogham, why not just a line drawn on the wall each time a ceremony is performed at the location. Perhaps a line is drawn each time a site is revisited by paleo-americans? Nobody except the people who carved these crude petroglyphs can say what they actually represent. I do agree that the canine looking figure in "Anubis Cave" looks more like a coyote or wolf than the Egyptian God of the Underworld. The reason archaeologists can look at ancient carvings and read them is because they are stylized and exact. Each culture had it's own way of drawing things and very few cultures had any type of writing. Those petroglyphs in "Anubis Cave" are so crude that they can only be speculated about as to what they even represent. Why does it need to be Anubis or Mithras or Ogham script? Why can't it be native american petroglyphs? It sure looks like lots of other petroglyphs I've seen throughout the region. Common sense says, "Look at this carving here in western Oklahoma. It is canine in shape and is very old. I would guess it to be native-american, maybe a coyote or wolf. Both animals are significant to native-americans." Who goes into a cave in Oklahoma and say's, "Look it's Anubis! And there is Mithras, and OMG here is some Ogham script!" It just boggles the mind. None of those three subjects have any connection to each other. Why go through such a convoluted series of mind warping irrational leaps of imagination to connect such far-flung subject matter, when a reasonable hypothesis is at hand? The reason serious academics avoid the subject of "Anubis Cave" is because it is outlandish,(exceeding proper or reasonable limits or standards). That carved bull on the stone is very interesting but to me looks like someones crude attempt to possibly replicate the Apis Bull design, but it totally lacks the skill shown in real Egyptian carvings or any other carving made by a skilled engraver. Also, the bull has a hump on it's back like a Brahma Bull. Oh, I know, it was carved by Indians! (From India) Choke on that one Mr. Wolters!
2/13/2013 07:34:38 pm
I saw the episode at hand, and found it very interesting. When it comes down to it we as people know very little about anything when it pertains to our past.
2/14/2013 02:54:24 am
That's hilarious Rubirosa! You must be a gnarly old troll. If I really believed you were that uneducated about history I would suggest you pick up a book once in a while. I would bet a nickel, though, that you are just trollin' along on the internet. Keep on believing! Have you seen Finding Bigfoot? It's amazing and true.
2/14/2013 07:37:04 am
2/13/2012, I watched the episode last night and very first thought that crossed my mine was "Mithra a Celtic Religion?" The second was this fantastical fascination with Anglo/Celtic or say white Americans trying to prove some basis for being "first" in the Americas before Native Americans and Spanish speaking people. No YDNA has been discovered in any burial, which if it was Celtic would definitely have a high probability of being R1b or similarly in the Vikings in Minnesota episode potentially y haplogroup I1. (I belong to both, I'm R1b L48 direct and my mothers mother father are I1, my mothers are mtdna D and mmf are J2 M92, 40% Nordic/German, 30% Medit. 30% Native Meso American and I'm ethnically Mexican)....
2/14/2013 05:16:42 pm
Hello Mr.Pitts a wise man once said "I know that I know nothing". That wise man was Socrates. Nothing is certain in life but death. What does the human race really know about there past, nothing! We know more about our moon then our oceans. I state all of this because TV programs like America Unearted may not be reliable but they do bring up questions about what really is the history of the United States. In my opinion it is up to the viewer to decide if the facts and opions expressed in the program are true or not.
2/16/2013 01:08:17 am
There are just too many questions Scott does not pursue in the show. I like watching it, but a serious investigative show, it is not.
2/16/2013 03:02:44 pm
Sadly one short television episode can not show the various styles of petroglyphs to be found in the local of the Anubis Caves. There are some of the most fascinating solar alignments marking specific solar days in this area. They are multicultural and if this episode detracts from the nature of the truth to be investigated in the area .....that's sad,because after being at many of these sites to watch what someone created to convey a
2/16/2013 03:11:10 pm
A thought that was important enough to carve into stone ......what have we truly lost?
2/18/2013 11:07:57 am
Wow! Hard to believe I found all this looking for validating or debunking the Piri Reis map. AU, as well as AA, is sensationalism. Some great film visits to sites though. We all are guility at times for hanging on to some beliefs (can we take a poll on Kennedy assisination?) far longer than necessary. There are mysteries in this world and thankfully someone will visit them so I can see. I may disagree with those show's conclusions but damn glad I can visit Nazca or Anubis Cave.
3/2/2013 11:30:37 pm
The solar alignment was interesting. I wonder how many lines or ticks are around that eye. The first I would think is that the lines were counts of the days or whatever calender method they used, defining celestial or cosmological events.
3/13/2013 04:21:23 pm
Why can't i find this anywhere online that doesn't link back to the history channel show?
3/13/2013 05:14:22 pm
Just saw this episode tonight. Im getting more and more infuriated with History channel and their attempts to re-write history.
3/13/2013 06:28:20 pm
Milesius of Spain's son's invaded Ireland and their mother Pharaoh Ectonabus's daughter princes Scotia! she was killed there. also whe in Spain the sons were Schooled in higher learning. her religion seems to have been known in the Celtic ''Kerry'' area.. if this find is true, its a relic of the father of the irish peoples link to Egypt.. ps the Celts sailed the Vandal's over to Morroco around 409 AD Possibly a few ships might have been moved east off africa by storm perhaps finding the texas gulf. were talking here 400 AD it fits hmmm i ''1der'' if they ended up in the metis tribe of canada/oaklahoma area and they were known to have white features
3/13/2013 07:49:36 pm
I am open to alternate theories pertaining to what we think we know as our history, but I think this show fell short in terms of truly supporting the theories presented.
5/23/2013 09:41:37 am
Unfortunately, it is not that easy. Rock cannot be carbon dated. Carbon dating can only be conducted on organic materials - plants and animals that were once living and contain carbon. Thermo luminescent dating can be used to date inorganic material that was once heated to high temperature to the date at which it was last heated -- but I can think of no reason why this object would have experienced such an event. Had the stone been found in relation to organic remains (say, near remains of an ancient camp fire), it may have been possible to determine a relative date for the artifact through those remains. However, as I understand it, the stone was found in/near a river, which would have likely washed away any related organic materials and it was removed from the site by amateur relic hunters, thereby destroying forever any chance of gleaning additional information from the object's context.
3/13/2013 08:35:46 pm
Nick, for a person who claims that, "[they] majored in History, have been on six archaeological digs, and have been hunting for and collecting artifacts for over ten years" Why would you ruin the site by removing the "artifact" therefore destroying the context? I would have thought someone with your "experience" would have known better. Next time contact a professional, don't be a "Digger".
3/17/2013 05:43:42 pm
As I was watching this program it occurred to me from the beginning that this Scott Wolper has designed a series of television "events" in order to confuse the "hell" out of ordinary people. As soon as he tried to bring Ogam and Mithraism together I knew it was under researched and "thrilled up" for a new age religious fanatic. I am an anthropologist who has studied all three of the named religious groups, as well as being versed in Ogam language as it was written from the ancient Irish, and I know that the original Celtic (jpronounced with a hard K) religion originated from India, that a version of the Mithraic cult was brought to Wales and points north by Romans after the 4th and 5th centuries and that the original Egyptian beliefs in their gods and goddesses have nothing much to do with anything that Mr. Wolper represented. I'm inclined to believe any Egyptian carving has more basis in the 1920's with the resulting upsurge in interest of Egyptian history after Tutenkhamun was discovered in 1922. It was interesting that the patina was missing from many of the carvings and therefore were unable to be dated with any accuracy at all.
3/27/2013 04:37:30 pm
I wouldn't lend much credence to the notion that the carving was produced during the Victorian mania for hoaxes - the population of the Tulsa area was virtually nill in the Victorian era, and largely composed of Creeks.
4/17/2013 03:30:54 pm
The bull is not an Apis bull from Ancient Egypt. It may be a fake; however, it may be advantageous to check out the golden bull of lyre of ancient Ur. Perhaps, we could all use a little more adventure and fewer words. With best regards.
6/5/2013 11:58:24 pm
Great leaps of supposition by this shallow programme. Quite relevant that a 'bull' was featured!
7/13/2013 02:40:07 pm
Personally I have come to enjoy the show. I love anything history. Plus anyone with half a brain can tell whether things are placed or fabricated and I don't doubt that the arts department within the walls of the History channel didn't try to enhance based on rumor or legend.
8/2/2013 07:03:08 am
The initial consonant of the English words Celt and Celtic can be realised either as /k/ or /s/ (that is, either hard or soft ⟨c⟩), both variants being recognised as "correct" in prescriptive usage by modern dictionaries.
8/2/2013 07:11:38 am
The first pronunciation /k/ is preferred by most dictionaries; the latter pronunciation is not historical and emerged recently on analogy with the small-c celt, a type of stone tool, which derives from the (mis)use of "celte" in the Vulgate (Job 19:24), in turn gaining its /s/ pronunciation from the nineteenth century Italian-influenced Latin pronunciation used in Britain before the advent of the "New Pronunciation." As the English Celt originates in Latin and Greek, it first had the hard-c. But, then again, so did Caesar.
8/2/2013 08:16:16 am
So the soft 'c' used in Boston Celtics is an American mispronounciation (not being facetious). Obviously they were not referring to stone tools.
8/5/2013 07:56:56 pm
I dont understand why he doesn't do carbon dating on his evidence. It can be done on rocks and bones. They do it in Egypt. It would confirm the dates they are found and would be more factual.
9/24/2013 12:28:34 pm
Now I am not the most intellegent human out there but correct me if I am wrong... But carbon date a rock with inscriptions?? It's safe to say they would come back as millions of years old (give or take).. You can't carbon date the inscriptions, only the rock it has been written into which has been around for like, forever lol. Dating an inscription alone would be tough to get accurate if not impossible. There are a great many good quality fakes out there I am sure.
9/24/2013 12:35:56 pm
That's why we date the organic material in the carvings, not the rock. Radiocarbon dating could supply information about the age of any organic materials in the carvings if the inscriptions on the stone maps were believed to be over 600 and less than 6,000 years old, and that could have only been done immediately after the carvings were found, before they were handled in anything less that sanitary conditions. To sum up, this show ruins artifacts, plain and simple.
9/17/2013 09:08:54 am
9/17/2013 10:55:50 am
The preconceived bias is absolutely true and overwhelmingly obvious in every episode. This is why this show and shows like Ancient Aliens can never be taken seriously. They don't seek to answer any questions, they have their own answers (agenda) already and are just waiting to apply it to all the questions that come up. Not only is science and logic not part of the equation used to support their hypotheses (I'm being nice by giving them a scientific term for their claims), but neither is plain old common sense. Too bad actual scientific endeavors have a hard time gaining the sponsorship and publicity these "pop" shows do.
9/17/2013 10:45:20 am
There's an upside to almost everything; at least the Freemason and the Knights Templar got a break in this episode!
9/17/2013 10:45:29 am
There's an upside to almost everything; at least the Freemason and the Knights Templar got a break in this episode!
9/18/2013 01:56:29 am
Thanks for the info, I saw a coyote and not Anubis. it is after all a TV show interested in ratings. Good story tho.
9/24/2013 12:22:35 pm
It looks like there are plenty examples of early Gaelic and Ogham script in the US which was not mentioned on the show. California, Colorado, Conneticut, Kansas, Maine, a bunch in Nevada, New York, Oaklahoma, Pennsylvania, Texas, Vermont South, Woodstock, Virginia and Wyoming to name a few... There is an excellent site that has catalogued info on the finds:
10/2/2013 08:11:12 am
The thread from top to bottom resembles a microcosm of our within the beltway politics ~ conduct a discourse with civility and leave the spear chucking to the again DC politicos.
2/1/2014 06:06:01 pm
I actually saw 1897 but that just proves that all of these inscriptions are in the eye of the beholder.
11/3/2013 07:57:01 am
I tried to post this directly but it wouldn't connect so take 2. When I first looked at the river carving it looked to me like Brahma Bull from India, not an Apis Bull from Egypt. Two minutes of homework showed that the first Brahma cattle were brought to the USA in 1854 and herds created from interbreeding 4 types of Indian cattle by 1900. There is an American Brahman Breeders Association established 90 years ago that has its HQ in Houston. I'm sure the Johnsom brothers find is legitimate but that the carving is domestic and recent with weathering caused by the river as Scott Wolter cautioned. It's nice art!
11/3/2013 08:00:44 am
PS. I don't claim expertise on any of this. I just try to be observant
11/15/2013 01:17:55 pm
I read these exchanges with some sober disappointment. The real problem with most people both criticizing and promoting diffusionism, is a lack of perspective. I have met many of the old school diffusionists (not Fell, but) members of the Western Epigraphic Society whose research uncovered most of these early esoteric sites in OK and CO. Wayne May and I have talked many times concerning these sites, as I am the first person to actually understand who made them, and why! Wayne is no Mormon apologist" but a serious investigator, and has put his time and energy into original research, some 30 years worth of sweat equity in the field. I doubt that ANY of the critics of modern diffusionism have invested even one summer's vacation time to such in-field archeology. It infuriates me to see how many people's opinions are bereft of any real knowledge, and yet such individuals are so willing to put their baseless assaults on other's ideas out there for the world to see their ignorance. However, as someone mentioned, few read such obscure blogs.
terry the censor
11/15/2013 02:32:07 pm
> here in the Underworld (what the ancients actually called the Americas)
2/1/2014 06:11:23 pm
So is it Ogham in the cave or not? If so, what does it say?
I watched this particular episode for the first time this afternoon (via TiVo) and this is the first episode in the series that I have seen. Let me also state that while I have a masters degree in early childhood education and special education and am a published technical writer (about Linux) I am in no way an expert on the topics presented in the television show. I am smart enough to formulate some questions about what information the show does present and I found that the show answered none of them in any meaningful way. "Unearthed" is like "Star Trek" and "Law and Order" in that it is entertaining, although it's not as well written or produced. But as neither of those shows can be described as "authoritative" on the topics of science or law, neither can this TV show be considered authoritative as to archaeology and science, much as "realty" shows have little to do with reality. It's amusing to see the amount of butthurt "Unearthed" generates on all sides, something I am finding more entertaining that the TV show itself. It is gratifying to see people be so passionate about understanding our world and I am open to changing the way I think about things if actual evidence can be provided due to new discoveries. However, I doubt I'll be watching any more shows from this series unless I "discover" a drinking game associated with it.
12/7/2013 05:49:46 am
I just watched this episode. Holy cow. They show Wolter going to Ireland to meet with an expert on Ogham who tells him in no uncertain terms that what he has is NOT Ogham, then he repeats over and over again his conclusion that he has Ogham script. Why visit an expert at all if you give his opinion no weight? What a joke this show is.
12/30/2013 08:07:09 am
I noticed that on the romantic 19th century illustration of Apis there appears to be several X shapes along the side of the bull. One of them appears to vaguely resemble a poorly drawn runic hooked X. So, following the same line of reasoning as America Unearthed and its host, I believe we have just proven that ancient Egypt was actually a Norse settlement. I'll be typing up my script for History Channel shortly. If they won't give it its own show I'll make a few changes, postulate that the Norse were actually aliens, and sell it to Gio Tsoukalos.
1/11/2014 12:38:57 pm
1/19/2014 05:14:46 am
Just wondering why the History channel would put all the $ they do into a show if EVERYTHING that's on it is supposedly fake!!! Has anyone checked into Mr. Colavitos credentials? We'll I have and he's not 100% who he says he is.. Ok so he set up a blog about a tv show. Problem with everything is says is wrong isn't. Some of the things that have shown on the show in fact is real. For instance the copper from upper peninsula of the Michigan episode.
1/19/2014 05:24:28 am
I'm not who I say I am? Then, pray tell, who am I? And who is the fellow who wrote all the books with my name on them?
8/31/2014 10:25:29 am
Disclaimer: This is no indication of my beliefs or nonbeliefs in the subject, nor whether Ms. Farley is legitimate or nuts. I too just wondered about the alleged oghams and this was the first thing I cam across. No time right now to look further. http://www.gloriafarley.com/chap4.htm Scroll down to "Decipherments by Fell".
11/21/2014 01:54:42 pm
Being a Native Oklahoma farmer, North-west Oklahoma, I can tell you the rock out here in places is so soft you can dig into it with a knife like its dirt. That "ogham" or what ever you want to call it is nothing more thin chicken scratches (hash marks, like what you see on cell was counting down the days a prisoner has been locked up). South of my Homestead property (I left a detailed posting about on another blog post, it we call the Homestead place), is a plot of land I own, we call it the Canyon place, and down in some of these canyons and gullies are markings exactly identical to the ones show in this episode. Ours where left by the U.S. 7th Cavalry in 1870-72 and they mark locations of springs and fresh water along the Fort Dodge to Camp Supply military trail. South of that along the Camp Supply to Fort Reno trail are more of these markings. There all close to the trails but since the trails are no longer in use, they seem to be in the middle of no where, but in the 1870's to 1890's they told Cavalry Troopers, soldiers moving between forts, cowboys driving there beeves north from Texas to Kansas, and pioneers heading out west where fresh potable water was, and how far off the trail to go to find it.
2/5/2015 05:27:05 am
Jason is like Scott. He is making a living with the skills he has. http://www.jasoncolavito.com/merchandise.html
9/12/2015 12:19:25 pm
I haven't read through all of the comments, so this may be duplicated. Besides the whole Mithraism being a Roman cult issue, the part about the equinox shadow dance is just as troubling. If indeed, the carvings are from the 300-500 CE range, then the rock formations at the time of original carving would not be the same as they are today. The shadow movement we see today could not be the same as it was 1500 years ago due to natural erosion processes.
2/7/2016 03:29:35 pm
It is time for a second episode. We need a follow-up. Open it up, or make a park around it (as in the case of the Heavener Runestone) -- the more accessible, the better.
7/27/2020 12:44:02 pm
The depicted bull is clearly a Zebu depicted in Indus Valley style. Compare to bulls depicted in Indus Seals. I have found hundreds of examples of Indus script in North American petroglyphs and pictographs, and even some very obvious depictions of Hindu deities... https://karma-dharma-bhutadaya.blogspot.com/2019/07/so-i-was-drawn-to-article-that-touted.html?m=1
10/13/2020 02:12:55 am
Watching reruns and this episode made me laugh. From a geology standpoint, it is ridiculous. I live in Tulsa, and the sandstone along the Arkansas river is extremely soft and erodes very quickly. The river and Turkey Mountain are covered with loose sand from the eroded sandstone. There is actually a sand company that is on the bank of the river in south Tulsa that bags and sells sand! That bull carving was found on a 500-lb rock out in the middle of the river? Well, than it couldn't have been more that 10 years old. Any older than that, and the face of the rock would have already been eroded smooth. The "markings" on the cliff of Turkey Mountain do hold up to weather better because they are verticle on a cliff face, and not submerged in the river like the bull stone was. However, they are still carved in very soft sandstone. 1,500 years old? Give me a break. More like 100-120 years old at the most. These are all hoax/prank markings. Creative people in modern times having some fun.
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I am an author and researcher focusing on pop culture, science, and history. Bylines: New Republic, Esquire, Slate, etc. There's more about me in the About Jason tab.
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