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Review of America Unearthed S03E10 "Egyptian Secrets of NYC"

1/10/2015

148 Comments

 
This week, the new head of the Discovery Channel, Rich Ross, announced that he was ending that network’s practice of showing fake documentaries, like the one about the prehistoric shark falsely claimed to still be alive, or the one about man pretending to get eaten by a snake. According to Ross, the network with make “true” information “mandatory” on its shows. Unfortunately, H2 is owned by a different conglomerate, and we’re stuck with hour after hour of flights of fancy passing for science. 

Due to some preexisting commitments, I have a little less time this evening than usual, so my review may be a bit spottier than usual.

Background

Picture
Cleopatra's Needle in the process of being moved out of Egypt.
The obelisk known as Cleopatra’s Needle came to New York’s Central Park in 1881 because Americans were jealous that Paris and London each had recently acquired one of their own, as did Rome—though its several obelisks arrived in the Roman era. The obelisk dates to about 1450 BCE and was erected at Luxor by Thutmose III.

Wanting to be seen as coequal with the great European power, the powerful New York newspapers began agitating for an American obelisk as soon as news broke that one would leave for London in 1877. Through a serious of blunders, the papers mistakenly claimed that the Khedive of Egypt (the Ottoman viceroy) had planned to give an obelisk to America, and in March 1877 various officials decided to start a fundraising effort to bring the obelisk to America. William H. Vanderbilt contributed $100,000 and selected the site in Central Park where the monument would stand. His reasons for picking the site were obscure, but typically it is attributed to the limited locations available in Central Park, its proximity to the Metropolitan Museum, and the ease with which the obelisk could be anchored to bedrock to secure it safely.

An American official in Cairo, Judge Farman, received two letters from the State Department “accepting” the “gift” of an obelisk that had never been made. Farman, however, took the opportunity to simply ask the Khedive to give America an obelisk. In May 1877, the Khedive donated the matching obelisk that once formed a pair with the one in London, to the United States, for its friendly neutrality in the struggle between France and Britain for control of Egyptian affairs.

However, the Egyptians were not happy about the Khedive exporting their heritage, and protests and legal challenges prevented the monument from leaving the country until 1880. In July, it arrived in New York, and a team of 32 horses and a steam engine took 112 days to drag it to Central Park. The obelisk finally went up in 1881.

When Freemasons found on the obelisk some symbols that are similar to those of the Freemasons (largely due to the Freemasons recycling older symbols and then reading them backward into history) the Masons decided that the piece deserved full Masonic honors. It was difficult to find a date for the ceremony since it was hard work just getting city officials to agree to allow a Masonic ceremony, for they weren’t big on Masonic parades. The Masons had wanted October 2 as a date, but city officials had already booked that day for the unveiling of a bust of Scottish poet Robert Burns, so it had to move. (So much for a government conspiracy!)

On October 9, 1880, the Grand Master of the Masons of New York, Jesse B. Anthony, laid the cornerstone for the obelisk, just as the Masons were asked to do at most major constructions, including the Statue of Liberty. He spoke about architecture, antiquity, and the (myth of) Masonic history dating back to Egypt. He also placed a box in the cornerstone, as per tradition. Fifty thousand people watched as nine thousand Masons marched to the Park for the ceremony. A hymn was composed and sung, praising God for sending the obelisk, which it called the “ancient Sign / Of Thine own Light Divine,” prompting conspiracy theorists to suggest a hidden meaning. There is one, of course, and it goes back to the Masonic view, derived from medieval texts, that obelisks symbolized the pillars of Solomon’s Temple, and in turn two Pillars of Wisdom Enoch erected to preserve knowledge before the Flood—the last remnant of the old myth of the Watchers.

Anti-Masonic conspiracy theorists saw something sinister and pagan in the Egyptian symbolism and themes in Masonic ceremonies. But rather than attribute this to archaizing tendencies (as, for example the Grange adopted what it believed to be the trappings of the Eleusinian Mysteries), conspiracy theorists instead argued that the Masons actually retained genuine Egyptian traditions across thousands of years, and that they secretly were devil-worshipers who used obelisks to symbolize the lost phallus of Osiris. The Masons didn’t exactly dispute most of this. In The Master Mason in 1921, the Mason and Christian writer John Jabez Lanier described the Egyptian belief in resurrection and added that “that first faith is our faith today.”  However, due to the influence of the solar theory of the mythology popular in the 1800s, Masons of that era mistakenly believed that Osiris was the sun, or a fertility god. To that end, some conspiracy writers have purposely misrepresented a contemporary article from the Freemasons Repository as confirming that the Masons raised the obelisks “to praise and adore the divinity of the sun,” though the original article says that Thutmose III, not Masons, had that purpose in mind.

For Scott Wolter, though, obelisks have a slightly different meaning. Rather than being demonic solar symbols, for him they are instead giant penises fertilizing the divine goddess he seems to think that the Freemasons and the Knights Templar worshiped. Last season he discussed this in terms of the Washington Monument, which he argued was a penis impregnating what he imagined to be a vulva inscribed on the National Mall (S02E07). Although this was a figment of his imagination (the “vulva” was added only a few years ago to a monument started in 1848), Wolter continues to believe that the Masons are involved in secret goddess worship that involves phallic symbolism. Otto Augustus Wall, who famously described the Golden Fleece as a blonde Aryan woman’s public hair, described the Central Park obelisk as one of the “phallic pillars” in his classic bit of pseudo-history Sex and Sex Worship (1919), so this is nothing new.

The Episode

Segment 1
We open with the opening of a briefcase within which is a model of the Chrysler Building, the Statue of Liberty, the Empire State Building and other New York City monuments. These Scott Wolter solemnly places on a street map of New York City as dry ice swirls around the structures. The last of these is Cleopatra’s Needle, in Central Park. Then we cut to the opening credits before jetting off for Central Park.

“That was a long, pointless opening,” my brother said, seeing the show for the first time tonight. It is the first time I’ve watched the show with other people in the room. I usually don’t because it makes it hard to concentrate on my writing.

Wolter gives a potted history of the English takeover of New Amsterdam as Wolter arrives in Central Park to meet his tipster, Dorothy McCarthy, to whom he mansplains her Egyptian-themed jewelry. Dorothy is wearing the cartouche of Thutmose III, the pharaoh who built the obelisk now known as Cleopatra’s Needle. McCarthy was the advocate who got the Egyptian government to protest to the New York mayor’s office, who in turn covered the monument in scaffolding as part of a restoration effort. McCarthy tells Wolter that the obelisk was erected in honor of Amon-Ra, the sun god, whom Wolter considered Egypt’s most important god. Wolter notes that there is a similar obelisk in Paris, and McCarthy notes that one is in London.

Wolter states that the obelisks came from Heliopolis where it once guarded an academy of wisdom, and he confuses the Mysteries with the Seven Liberal Arts. He seems to say that the obelisks are all that remains of this Mystery school, but that isn’t true.

McCarthy spins a Masonic conspiracy theory in which she alleges that when the obelisk was moved from Egypt, Masonic artifacts were found in its foundation, leading to the Masons becoming obsessed with this obelisk and erecting it in New York. In early reports, some of the hieroglyphs resembled Masonic symbols, but much later sources started to speak of Masonic “artifacts.” Such artifacts could not have been found in the obelisk’s foundation stone because the obelisk had been moved from Luxor to Alexandria in the Roman era. Its foundation stone was long gone. 
Segment 2
After a verbal recap, Wolter again asserts that Masonic artifacts were found under Cleopatra’s Needle, and based on this assertion he builds a fictitious hypothesis that the pyramid builders were ancient Freemasons deeply connected to the Founding Fathers of America. To that end, he calls his wife Janet to ask her what she can find about the obelisk’s location. She connects Wolter to Brendon Green, a Freemason based in New York, whom he “contacts” via staged text messages for an afternoon meeting in Brooklyn, illustrated with a block-by-block map of Wolter’s amazing adventure across the urban jungle.

Green gives a potted history of how Henry H. Gorringe, a Freemason, arranged for the obelisk to be transported from Alexandria to New York (he cut a hole in the side of a boat to get it on board), and Wolter ties William Vanderbilt’s funding of the obelisk’s journey to the last of the Vanderbilts still in the public eye, Anderson Cooper. Rather than ask Cooper whether William Vanderbilt was a Freemason, the two men speculate that he must have been even though there is no evidence to support the claim.

After the men gape in awe at the engineering involved in transporting the obelisk, we go to commercial with nothing more than some gaseous speculation about Freemasons masquerading for an investigation.
Segment 3
After an on-screen recap—which now corrects the “artifacts” found beneath the obelisk to “symbols”—Wolter recaps the show verbally, during which he asserts that the Freemasons were responsible for founding America. Wolter is still speaking to Green, and he tells Green that “artifacts” were found beneath the obelisk, and Green agrees. The Freemasons make mention of this, but they didn’t seem to consider it anything extraordinary. (In fact, the Masons cautioned that this “does not mean that Masonic Lodges existed in ancient China or Egypt.”) Nor does it make much sense since the obelisk had been moved to Alexandria in Roman times; therefore, the tools are more likely those of the Roman engineers than the ancient Egyptians.

Wolter babbles about solar and astronomical symbolism before asking about Masonic symbolism on the Great Seal of the United States. He wants to know about the unfinished capstone on the pyramid, and he suggests that the Eye of Providence is actually the Eye of Horus, from Egyptian faith. The two men agree that the pyramid “takes us back to Egypt.” But Green took a “vow of secrecy” that prevents him from sharing Masonic secrets with Wolter, so Wolter returns to the Washington Monument investigation from Season Two to repeat his false claims about the secret symbolism of Washington, D.C.’s street grid. Wolter believes that Cleopatra’s Needle has the same connection, and his wife dutifully informs him by telephone that the monument’s position was selected by William Vanderbilt. Wolter’s wife “discovers” that the Vanderbilts built Grand Central Station and commissioned its famous astronomical ceiling.
Segment 4
After a recap, Wolter takes us to Grand Central Terminal and notes that the constellations were painted in reverse (for the most part), except for the constellation of Orion. Wolter uses his branded tablet computer to read emails from Janet about further obelisks in New York, the Thomas Addis Emmet Obelisk and the Worth Obelisk, which form a line roughly similar to the belt stars of Orion. I just know he wants to say they are aligned that way. Unfortunately, Janet Wolter is cherry-picking: there are several more obelisks in New York City, which would ruin the alignment. Wolter connects the Emmet Obelisk in front of St. Paul’s Chapel to the Freemasons, and we go to commercial.
Segment 5
After an on-screen recap, Wolter travels to Worth Square to look at the 1857 Worth Monument, which was designed by James Goodwin Batterson, the designer of Washington’s Masonic Temple, to stand above Mexican-American war hero Gen. Worth’s grave when his body was returned to New York from Texas, where he died in 1849. Wolter now makes the three obelisks into a map of Orion’s Belt, because the three obelisks are not in alignment, but the distances are off. They don’t form a perfect correlation to Orion’s belt. I don’t have a handy map, though, to pull this together.

But he’s saving this for the grand revelation at the end of the show.

Instead, we waste time looking at the accidental alignment of Manhattan streets with the setting sun. Even Scott Wolter recognizes that this alignment is a coincidence.
Segment 6
After another recap, Wolter is back at his lab talking with Cari Marryman, a designer who has laid out various Manhattan monuments (“not to scale”) on a map of New York City. These she removes and replaces with models of the obelisks. Wolter declares these obelisks Orion’s belt, and he then asserts that the Giza pyramids are also aligned with Orion’s Belt, which was Robert Bauval’s Orion Correlation Theory, which even its great supporters—like Graham Hancock—now concede do not form a mathematically perfect correlation but a “symbolic” one. Wolter asserts that the obelisk alignment “points” to the Statue of Liberty, which he asserts (as per season 1) that the statue is the goddess Isis and therefore the star Sirius. No support is offered for any of this, and no effort is made to show that the “alignment” has a close mathematical relationship to the Orion belt stars. Nevertheless, Wolter is convinced that the alignment “proves” an Egyptian connection to Freemasonry.

As you can see form the map below, the alignment isn’t really close. (North is up.)
Picture
Picture
It's also not very good when I ignore scale and directions altogether and just try to fit them. I would have expected more precision.
Picture
Now how did they know that the Statue of Liberty would go on Liberty Island when the first obelisk went up a century before? IT'S ALL A PLOT!

Oh, and the real reason the obelisks are in a rough line? Each was most likely independently placed as close as was practical to Manhattan's central axis. 
148 Comments
lurkster
1/10/2015 02:27:30 pm

The fake text messages was corny, I thought I was watching some CW post-pubescent soap opera.

That said, I am disappoint the best part of the show didn't get a mention: coming next week, Wolter does bigfoot!

Alas, it was only a matter of time.

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Zach
1/10/2015 03:00:37 pm

Your joking, right? This isn't ancient aliens, where even then it's stupid when they talk about Bigfoot.

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lurkster
1/10/2015 03:03:44 pm

I wish. The trailer for next week was about Bogfoot. And DNA was mentioned. I did a double take because of Jason's last post.

lurkster
1/10/2015 03:04:59 pm

I meant "Bigfoot" ...damn fingers.

Adam
1/10/2015 02:49:29 pm

Springfield, Illinois; Indianpolis, Indiana; and Columbus, Ohio all form a similar line just like the pyramids and Orion's belt. Did ancient extraschmekels build these three midwest capitals as a beacon for others? Why are they all boring? More, after this break.

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EP
1/10/2015 02:54:07 pm

Scott Wolter: Just a Midwestern boy, taking a bite of of the Big Apple!

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Only Me
1/10/2015 03:14:42 pm

And to think this crapfest will be followed by an episode investigating Bigfoot.

There was no mystery to "investigate" and they couldn't string together enough half-baked ideas to fabricate one.

Wolter is hoping the show will be picked up for a fourth season. Why?

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Zach
1/10/2015 03:48:34 pm

Oh come on Only me...only a forensic geologist as credible as Scott Wolter can find out that Bigfoot existed. After all...Bigfoot DID make it to America before Columbus. Just ask the Ancient Alien theorists. I'm sure there's a rune stone he left behind as a land marker before he went back to the mothership as a means of claiming America for the greys.

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Only Me
1/10/2015 04:13:43 pm

Hopefully, Scott won't need his loupe or camera adapter to identify the stone Bigfoot throws at his head!

EP
1/11/2015 02:34:13 am

Loupe... heh... what a funny word :)

John Dunham
1/11/2015 04:34:40 am

I actually felt sorry for ol' Scott when I saw that promo. Talk about jumping the shark.

I really can't see any way that this kind of show is promoting his agenda any more at all. I guess looking at old rocks simply did not get the same ratings as Bigfoot and pirates.

Jackie
1/13/2015 03:36:09 pm

Oh, and don't forget the Knights Templar and the Freemasons, also stopped by to say hi to big foot

Matt Mc
1/10/2015 03:49:56 pm

What I learned this week:

When Wolter investigate his obelisks they are always surrounded by scaffolding. Is this a conspiracy to prevent Wolter to properly see them? Or perhaps some kind of masonic sacred condom?

When Wolter tries to see solar alignments the weather does not agree.

and Bigfoot, I cannot believe he is going to hunt for Bigfoot.

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Zach
1/10/2015 03:55:59 pm

Look on the plus side Matt...at least Tsoukalos won't be there with him. I hope.

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Matt Mc
1/10/2015 03:59:39 pm

I wonder if he will look for Nessie next. He could claim the Templar used Nessie's distant relative to pull a water chariot across the Atlantic and left it behind in Lake Champlain were it became Champ.

John Dunham
1/11/2015 12:36:55 am

Nessie is in Scotland is she not - she must be a Templar

Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 01:17:09 am

John Dunham, Your tongue in check comment adds No Value to the discussion. Try using some facts.

EP
1/11/2015 02:36:32 am

YOU SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOUTH JOHN DURHAM!!! :P

jp
1/10/2015 04:50:20 pm

Folks, FYI Grand Central Station is a Post Office! Grand Central Terminal is where the Vanderbilt's built the constellation in reverse accidently, then hired a PR firm to put a good face on it. The firm came up with the explanation that the ceiling was done, "as God would see it." Even the most basic research would turn up this story, and, oh my goodness, to not even know the difference between a station and a terminus.

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Only Me
1/10/2015 05:34:09 pm

"After a recap, Wolter takes us to Grand Central Terminal and notes that the constellations were painted in reverse (for the most part), except for the constellation of Orion."

Notice "Grand Central Terminal" in that sentence. Obviously, the earlier reference to Grand Central Station was an error. Mistakes happen, and oh my goodness, even the most basic reading comprehension would make this clear.

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Only Me
1/10/2015 05:39:11 pm

Actually, both names are acceptable:

[Although the terminal has been properly called “Grand Central Terminal” since 1913, it has "always been more colloquially and affectionately known as Grand Central Station", the name of the previous rail station on the same site, and of the U.S. Post Office station next door, which is not part of the terminal.[6] It is also sometimes used to refer to the Grand Central – 42nd Street subway station, which serves the terminal.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_Terminal

jp
1/12/2015 06:56:27 am

Ok now my reply button is working. Please see my response at the end of this list. I can't leave this alone. A "Terminal" is a terminus. The end of the line. Trains can't go any further once they reach this terminus. A " Station" is a stop along the way on a route, where trains can proceed to stops in either direction. So actually. Both names are not acceptable, and neither is sourcing Wikipedia, unless of course you are a researcher for Scott Wolter or Giorgio Tsoukolos.

Dan
1/10/2015 05:52:08 pm

Wait, is this just an hour to discover that there are many obelisks in NYC and three of them happen to sort of line up in a NNE direction?

I don't think that he's even asserting that this was planned by anyone in particular and for any particular purpose. I mean, yeah, Freemasons, but else? This is a very bizarrely pointless episode.

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Tom Dietrich
1/10/2015 10:50:21 pm

Jason does great work! We all want to get to the real truth of the matter. What concerns this Skeptic is that some Skeptics don't believe in ANY CONSPIRACIES. Anyone who does not believe the government is termed a "Tin Foil Hat" person. Why would you trust a Government that lies to the people?

Here are some False Flag Operations and real Conspiracies that did happen.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/falseflag

http://www.riseearth.com/2012/09/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out.html

Are there any Skeptics out there who can debunk any of these as not true?

We are no longer a Government of the people, by the people and for the people. We have become a Government of the special interests, by the special interests and for the special interests. It's all about the money and what money buys. Money will buy you any politicians who is for sale. It's just a matter of settling on a price.



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Rick
1/11/2015 01:33:41 am

I missed SW mention any of this in the show.

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Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 03:10:13 am

There were several reference in the post to "conspiracy theorists" and "government conspiracy" with a tongue in check attitude suggesting anyone who believes this is a "tin foil hat person".

EP
1/11/2015 02:43:48 am

Tom, I don't think anyone here would claim that conspiracies never happen. When we speak of "cospiracy theories" dismissively, we mean conspiracy theories that are developed post hoc to prop up otherwise unsupportable views because the person isn't willing to do the rational thing and set them aside.

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Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 03:15:50 am

I'm a Skeptic by nature and member of several Skeptic Societies. But I have met a lot of Skeptics who don't believe in any "Government Conspiracies". Politicians lie to get elected and lie once they are in office. They sell out to the highest bidders in the Special Interest Lobbies for campaign contributions. Why would you believe any of them? Governments lie to the people and cover up crimes of government officials. Yet some Skeptics don't believe in any government conspiracies. They accept what the government says at face value. Why?

EP
1/11/2015 03:23:25 am

This sounds like a pointless political discussion I don't feel like having.

Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 04:09:44 am

EP, Exactly what the Politicians want you to do. Withdraw from the political arena. "Just because you do not take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you!" Pericles 495-430 BC Greek General and Statesman.

Matt Mc
1/11/2015 04:19:03 am

I did not read EP's statement as him withdrawing from politics. Instead I read it as he is not interested in this specific discussion, there is a big difference.

John Dunham
1/11/2015 04:28:51 am

Tom Dietrich since the Nazi Templar Jesus blood people that AU promotes are not in politics, your political comment adds No Value to the discussion.

EP
1/11/2015 09:31:39 am

It's good to know that some people are capable of making crucial distinctions in evaluating what I say. It's even better to know that they got my back :D

Mandalore
1/11/2015 01:10:45 pm

Pericles never said that; it is falsely attributed to him to give it added weight. It's certainly not in Thucydides and I'm not sure where else it may be. Not much else has survived about him.

A more useful bit of Athenian politics: the Greek word for a private person, someone who did not take an active part in the political system, was idiota from which we get the word idiot.

Harry
1/11/2015 06:09:44 am

Tom,

There certainly have been government conspiracies, such as the covering up of the Watergate burglary on President Nixon's orders. I also aware of how some politicians are corrupt.

However, there have also been a number of alleged government conspiracies that rely on speculation to support at least some of their essential elements and therefore remain unproven, such as government involvement in the assassination of President Kennedy, and others that not only share those faults but are highly doubtful if one thinks about it logically, such as that the US government staged the 9-11 terror attacks.

Have you met any skeptics who deny President Nixon's involvement in covering up the Watergate break-in? If so, then they are either uninformed or too skeptical.

If, on the other hand, they doubt that elements of the US government were involved in the assassination of Kennedy, then I think that their doubts are reasonable (keep in mind that, assuming you don't believe that Oswald acted alone, there are more credible conspirators, such as the Mafia, to consider).

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Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 08:08:38 am

Harry, Apparently you did not see my earlier post. Here are some real False Flag operations and real Conspiracies involving governments..

http://www.wanttoknow.info/falseflag

http://www.riseearth.com/2012/09/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out.html

I have researched the JFK Assassination for 25 years. I won't bore you with the over 200 books and films I have viewed. My mind is made up on that issue. Conclusion: Government Cover Up and Inside Job.

Same for 9/11. 12 years and over 100 books and films viewed. Conclusion: Government Cover Up and Inside Job.

Please note I'm not saying Who did it. I'm saying there was a Government Cover Up and people inside the government were involved.

Here are 15 real conspiracies that have been documented with facts.

MK-Ultra
Operation Mockingbird
Watergate
The Tuskegee Syphilis Study
Operation Northwoods
COINTELPRO Program
The Iran-Contra Affair
The BCCI Scandal
CIA Drug Running
Gulf of Tonkin Incident
Operation Ajax
Operation Snow White
Operation Gladio
Church Committee Documentation of CIA Assassinations
Operation Paperclip


Harry
1/11/2015 10:00:50 am

Tom,

I never said that Watergate was the only government conspiracy I believed in. But it is apparent that we disagree about some of the conspiracies you believe in.

Just don't say that I don't believe in government conspiracies at all.

Marius
1/12/2015 05:49:00 am

Snow White wasn't by the government. Nor are most of those conspiracies.

Bill Morgan
1/12/2015 07:47:31 am

Marius, You have no idea what you are talking about. Your comments are a cheap shot that I would expect from a 12 year old. So how many of those False Flag Operations and Government Conspiracies have you researched and know something about? Let me guess. Very little if nothing. If you prefer to keep your head in the sand, go ahead, but be careful of what you expose when you do.

CFC
1/11/2015 03:26:26 am

Good for the Discovery Channel. Let's hope some of these other channels follow their lead.

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Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 05:27:31 am

John Dunham, I don't believe in the "Nazi Templar Jesus blood people", that is all myth. Jesus did not exist as a real person. He was a myth created by the Catholic Church in the 1st and 2nd Century. The Author of the article brought up the subject of "Conspiracy Theories" and "Government Conspiracies". So it was appropriate to comment on those political issues.

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Mandalore
1/11/2015 01:16:47 pm

What? There are better sources and reasons to believe that Jesus was a real person than Alexander the Great. Or was Alexander a conspiracy of Roman emperors?

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Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 10:18:33 pm

I have spent 15 years researching the Christ Myth and have read hundreds of books on the myth of Jesus Christ. One of the best is Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill.

http://www.caesarsmessiah.com/

All religions are based on Myths. If you want to believe Jesus was real and performed all the miracles and rose from the dead go right ahead. I don't.

Mandalore
1/11/2015 11:40:04 pm

There is a difference between believing that a person named Jesus lived in first century Palestine and that He performed the miracles described in the Gospels. Pyrrhus was said to have been able to cure the sick by touching them with his sacred foot (which survived his cremation). Should I disregard his very existence because that seems unlikely? Should I assume that Muhammed, the Buddha, and Joseph Smith were all fictitious creations of their respective followers as well? Obviously all religions are based on myth, just as all cultures are based on prior traditions and practices. But you are throwing out the baby with the bath water.

John
1/12/2015 05:41:07 am

Nonsense. Jesus never minted coins in his far flung empire the way Alexander did in his. The claim that Jesus is better documented than Alexander is ridiculous.

Lurker Uncloaking
1/12/2015 10:45:24 am

Someone has seriously commended 'Caeser's Messiah"?

That is some serious woo and nonsense.

Here is a link to a professional destruction of it:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/4664

"Atwill is best known as the author of Caesar’s Messiah (subtitle: “The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus,” Roman meaning the Roman imperial family…yeah). In this Atwill argues “Jesus [is] the invention of a Roman emperor” and that the entire (?) New Testament was written by “the first-century historian Flavius Josephus” who left clues to his scheme by littering secret hidden coded “parallels” in his book The Jewish War. Atwill claims to prove “the Romans directed the writing of both” the JW and the NT, in order “to offer a vision of a ‘peaceful Messiah’ who would serve as an alternative to the revolutionary leaders who were rocking first-century Israel and threatening Rome,” and also (apparently) as a laughing joke on the Jews (Atwill variously admits or denies he argues the latter, but it became clear in our correspondence, which I will reproduce below…it’s weird because making fun of the Jews kind of contradicts the supposedly serious aim of persuading the Jews, yet Atwill seems to want the imperial goal to have simultaneously been both).

Notice his theory entails a massive and weirdly erudite conspiracy of truly bizarre scope and pedigree, to achieve a truly Quixotic aim that hardly makes sense coming from any half-intelligent elite of the era (even after adjusting for the Flynn effect), all to posit that the entire Christian religion was created by the Romans (and then immediately opposed by it?), who somehow got hundreds of Jews (?) to abandon their religion and join a cult that simply appeared suddenly without explanation on the Palestinian (?) book market without endorsement."

It would be nice to see what Mr. heiser of Paleobabble would do to this....

RC
4/28/2015 05:06:29 am

Not possible, the catholic church didn't exist until the 3rd century AD under the emperor Constantine.

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Seeing Eye
4/28/2015 11:01:57 am

Please check your history! There were 5 Popes in the 1st Century. 10 Popes in the 2nd Century. 14 Popes in the 3rd Century.

Clete
1/11/2015 06:13:49 am

My wife (who didn't watch the history channel even before it turned into crap) came into the room while I was watching this episode. After watching for a few minutes, she asked "Why is he running all over New York City looking at phallic symbols?"

I had no answer, except to say "That's his thing. Next week he goes on a search for Big Foot."

"Well, you know what they say about men with big feet." she said as she left.

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Digger
1/11/2015 07:18:44 am

What was up with all the dry ice / smoke effects on his map? Is he trying to make his monopoly pieces seem mysterious?

At one point he claims the white freemasons are basically descendants from the builders of Egypt, laying claim to both NYC and the Great Pyramids.

Thats some real white supremacist doctrine.

If you include the welsh indians, the american aztecs, greeks on the missippippi, marco polo discovering california, and some of his more questionable guests, you can pretty much assume SW is a closet white supremacist.

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Shane Sullivan
1/11/2015 10:38:12 am

In Wolter's defence, I don't think he's ever said the Aztecs were white, just that they may have migrated from Wisconson (they didn't, of course).

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Digger
1/22/2015 01:26:54 am

True, but this is how I see it evolving:

They take the Aztec roots away from Mexico and give it to the US.

Under these flimsy and false premises, someone then claims the Phoenicians (who are now the REAL pyramid builder freemasons) came along and taught the indigenous North Americans to build pyramids / civilization. This spreads to Central and South America via some more BS. BAM!!, all things great came from classical antiquity.

These WS nutters do this all the time. While they were talking about the "evidence" in SW's locker, they pulled out an egyptian statue. Ignoring that its probably fake.. Instead of attributing it to a egyptian owner, the guest jumps right to that it belonged to a phoenician, to somehow make it 'western'.

Perhaps he had some reasoning, I don't recall, but these "only the west can do greatness" maniacs will draw the shortest path, despite any logic, evidence, or reason. and SW loves em for it.

Kal
1/11/2015 09:16:45 am

"That said, I am disappoint the best part of the show didn't get a mention: coming next week, Wolter does bigfoot!"
Lurkster

Now if the show was about that it would be ten times more interesting and hilarious, with the fog machine and the funny lights, and his obelisk rising! Then this fur suited bigfoot sashes into frame, sayig she got his email love letters, and they romantically embrace! Hah! Furries and Fringe, together at last.

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Jason D.
1/11/2015 09:18:30 am

Is it me or has this show become a version of Seinfeld, basically about nothing. I really feel this season is incredibly weak and boring. I used to watch to enjoy the quixotic adventure and then enjoy reading Jason C.'s deconstruction, but now instead of an adventure which ends in nothing, it's not even and adventure anymore, it's just a half-hearted talk about nothing, with drama filled treks across a few city blocks in Chicago and NYC. I do not foresee a fourth season.

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EP
1/11/2015 09:30:02 am

OMG you guys! Some conspiracies are real! Laughing at stupid fringe conspiracy theories is hurting the feelings of Internet Social Justice Warriors everywhere! :)

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Rick
1/11/2015 09:41:32 am

Why is it each blog post has its own troll to try to stir up stuff but they never seem to show up at the same time. A few episodes ago it was the Rev., then it was SStC, now it's Tom.

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Matt Mc
1/11/2015 09:49:08 am

Because its a Conspiracy

Only Me
1/11/2015 09:53:40 am

Professional courtesy?

EP
1/11/2015 11:05:11 am

Such is the price of Jason's fame :)

Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 10:37:40 am

I never post "stupid fringe conspiracy theories". Everyone I posted can be proven to be true like:

MK-Ultra
Operation Mockingbird
Watergate
The Tuskegee Syphilis Study
Operation Northwoods
COINTELPRO Program
The Iran-Contra Affair
The BCCI Scandal
CIA Drug Running
Gulf of Tonkin Incident
Operation Ajax
Operation Snow White
Operation Gladio
Church Committee Documentation of CIA Assassinations
Operation Paperclip

Government False Flag Operations, Government Cover Ups, Government Lies are REAL. Sadly some Skeptics are in denial about this.

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EP
1/11/2015 10:57:47 am

Your political opinions are very important to this blog's readers. Everyone here finds your insights fascinating.

Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 11:01:35 am

EP, Thank you for your kind words. But they are not political opinions. They are proven facts.

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EP
1/11/2015 11:04:29 am

Actually, I was being sarcastic. I think you're being ridiculous and your posts are both off-topic and a lot more questionable than you seem willing to admit.

Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 11:19:37 am

The Author of the article brought up the topic of "government conspiracies", so it is not off topic. There is nothing questionable about these real government conspiracies I have listed. They have been proven to be true. If you choose not to believe them, then you are a skeptic in denial.

MK-Ultra
Operation Mockingbird
Watergate
The Tuskegee Syphilis Study
Operation Northwoods
COINTELPRO Program
The Iran-Contra Affair
The BCCI Scandal
CIA Drug Running
Gulf of Tonkin Incident
Operation Ajax
Operation Snow White
Operation Gladio
Church Committee Documentation of CIA Assassinations
Operation Paperclip

Reply
EP
1/11/2015 11:25:13 am

You're walking the fine line between being an annoying shitposter and a spamming troll. Good job!

Only Me
1/11/2015 11:30:22 am

Can you repost that list, oh say, five or six more times? I don't think three times is enough; we've grown numb to repetition thanks to Phil Gotsch.

pat
6/13/2015 07:27:13 am

between your virulent anger at religons, your raw hatred of of everything, and your comical willingness to believe any ugly nonsense while calling everything nonsense, you certainly keep busy. probably for the best, we dont need and tom offspring running around the unibomber style shack

Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 11:31:32 am

You are making derogatory personal comments that add no value to the conversation. I have made none towards you that are personal. How about you prove to me anything I have posted is untrue? Let's here your facts and evidence.

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EP
1/11/2015 11:44:49 am

How about you stop acting like a child who just discovered the Internet. No one here is interested in having this conversation with you any further. All the responses to what you're saying are now some combination of amusement and annoyance.

Jerky
1/11/2015 11:56:26 am


I don't see what this crap has to do with Scott or the show America Unearthed. take it to Alex Jones if you want to talk about this junk.

Curiousity enlightened the cat
1/11/2015 11:37:29 pm

Tom..Just wanna let you know that i like/appreciate yr posts very much.Don't mind the "ad hom" trolling.Most people,with half a brain,know the intentions behind such crap.Ain't it funny how the so called critical thinking skeptics go instant braindead when it's abouit gov etc?! Never stop sir :)

Tom Dietrich
1/12/2015 12:15:56 am

Curiosity enlightened the cat, Thank you for your comments! It is nice to know there are some other Critical Thinking Skeptics out there who have an open mind about any potentially real government conspiracies. I'm a member of a National Skeptic Society and a Local Skeptic Society. I have met many Skeptics who will challenge just about anything with the exclusion of government conspiracies. Once you mention a government conspiracy, they go into a knee jerk reaction and start accusing you of wearing a "Tin Foil Hat". They won't even look at the evidence supporting a conspiracy, but will instead start a personal attack against the person, not the evidence. I could name a few, but won't, on the National level who I believe have ties to some of the Intelligence Agencies. It is well documented that the CIA has deep cover assets in the national news media. This is covered in Operation Mockingbird. Thanks.

Jerky
1/12/2015 12:56:28 am

Again, what dose this fear mongering conspiracy bs have to do with Scott Wolter, America Unearthed, and this episode? Go peddle your fear mongering BS to youtube. or Alex Jones, im sure he would love to talk to you about it.

Bill Morgan
1/12/2015 02:15:22 am

Jerky, Author of article brought up the issue of 'government conspiracies", so it was fair game to make comments. What part of Tom's posts do you find untrue or not accurate? Suggest you respond with facts and evidence and not get into personal attacks which prove nothing. When someone has no facts or evidence to offer, they hide behind personal attacks as EP has done.

EP
1/12/2015 02:24:18 am

Hey, I resent that! I am at my most open in my personal attacks! :)

Bill Morgan
1/12/2015 05:23:21 am

This Forum is not about making personal attacks which are Juvenile as EP does. Posters should stick to facts and evidence. I fail to see where EP has posted anything that follows scientific methodology. He simply posts obscene material which one would expect from a 12 year old. I worked for the government for 38 years (now retired) and a lot of the things Tom has posted I know to be true.

EP
1/12/2015 05:30:09 am

Please share with us more of your deep understanding of the nature of scientific methodology, Mr. Government Insider. I'm sure everyone here is eager to bask in the glow of your wisdom.

Bill Morgan
1/12/2015 05:55:54 am

You can start by reading Final Judgment: The Missing Link in the JFK Assassination Conspiracy by Michael Collins Piper to learn Who was Who in the JFK assassination. It was an inside job and MCP is on target as he names names.

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Judgment-Missing-Assassination-Conspiracy/dp/0974548405/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1421088719&sr=1-1&keywords=final+judgement+by+michael+collins+piper

After you read that book, get back to me and I will tell you more.

EP
1/12/2015 09:20:35 am

How about "No"?

Here's my conspiracy: Tom Dietrich and Bill Morgan are the same person, engaged in retarded trolling.

Prove me wrong.

Jerky
1/12/2015 10:22:06 am

no, Jason did not bring up government conspiracy, or rather that it was a Freemason conspiracy, so tom is, way off subject here.

Secondly, conspiracy theories have never been proven, feme death camps, area 51, 9/11, jfk. all have been disprove, all are based on real events, but not the way the conspiracy mongers would have you think. again go peddle your conspiracy bull shit to Alex Jones.

Bill Morgan
1/12/2015 10:33:14 am

ET, Son, since you are unwilling to expand your mind with new knowledge and peel back the layers of the onion 4 or 5 levels to get to dark secrets in the Intelligence Agencies, I can't help you, even though I have 38 years of government experience to share. If you want to keep your head in the sand and believe we have a democratic government of the people, by the people and for the people, go ahead. The reality is we have a government of plutocrat special interests, for the special interests and by the special interests. Money buys you Congressmen, Senators, Judges, Governors and Presidents. The people who are Billionaires operate in a shadow government behind the scenes as puppet masters. What you see on the stage of government are puppets. The real golden rule is this. He who has the Gold gets to make the rules. The Plutocrats are above the law and will do anything to keep their power and money, even have politicians assassinated if they don't play ball with the puppet masters. JFK was his own man making his own decisions and would not play ball with the plutocrats. So they took care of that problem on Nov. 22, 1963 in Dallas. LBJ was more than happy to play ball.

EP
1/12/2015 10:41:18 am

As a troll, 7.5/10. Would possibly read again if there was nothing else to do.

Jerky
1/12/2015 10:56:28 am

hey EP, i guess some ones tin foil hat is on to tight. dont get whats so hard to understand about not being intrested in buying there bs.

Tom Dietrich
1/11/2015 12:14:36 pm

No facts or evidence provided by you. You are unable to prove anything I have said was false. Your only make personal insults. There is no scientific process revealed in your comments. You are allowing your ego to over ride your rational mind. Typical Skeptic response. You attack the person not the issues.

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EP
1/11/2015 03:20:59 pm

Hey Tom, I drew a picture of you:

http://memeabuse.wordans.com/wvc-1294327343/wordansfiles/images/2011/1/6/61639/61639_popup.jpg

CHV
1/11/2015 10:21:47 am

I do appreciate Scott having noted that Gen. Worth (of Fort Worth-fame) was a New Yorker. I honestly had no idea.

However, the episode was just typical Wolterisms - loosely strung conjectures with no proof to act as glue. Or in other words, a Dan Brown job.

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will
1/11/2015 10:28:44 am

Wolter put a picture of that foggy map setup as a whole on his blog...the rig actually looked cool, but was kind of ridic considering what it showed content wise.

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Uncle Ron
1/11/2015 12:13:09 pm

Well, the blog is kind of the Chronicles of Ridic...

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FrankenNewYork
1/11/2015 12:12:34 pm

The Grand Lodge of Free & Accepted Masons of the State of New York is located on 23rd St and 6th Av in Manhattan. They have extensive historical materials, they give tours and they are happy to provide information, that isn't protected by their oath, to the public as outreach to help demystify the organization and help increase membership.Why someone investigating a Masonic/Egyptian/New York connection would consult with some random Mason (who I'm sure is a nice guy) in Brooklyn instead of using such a resource is puzzling. Unless Wolter suspects a conspiracy of Masonic historians and academics to suppress publicly available Masonic knowledge from the public.

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Shane Sullivan
1/11/2015 01:36:02 pm

...of course, that raises the question of what makes said random nice Mason guy any more trustworthy.

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not Scott Wolter
1/11/2015 03:03:37 pm

Next on America Unearthed, Scott goes interplanetary only to learn his head is up Uranus.

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scot
1/12/2015 06:32:25 am

Wow Mr. Morgan. Michael Collins Piper? a holocaust denying anti semite ? that's who you get your info from. So yeah, I guess you're right, Ben-Gurion and Mossad were behind JFK' assassination with Meyer Lansky organizing it and LBJ acting as the inside man. It's about a realistic scenario as MLK's assassination being arranged by the anti-defamation league and the Mossad and FBI carrying it out. I guess that works for you since that leaves your buddy James Earl Ray off the hook.

I really don't think that to many people out side of brown shirted people like you and your ilk would believe a whole lot printed by America First Books seeing as they admit that they are promoting a white nationalistic view. Of course Mr. Piper's being endorsed by such luminaries as David Duke , Willis Carto and Ahmedinejad ( who incidently not only invited but hosted Mr. Piper in Iran to speak at a Holocaust denial conference) doesn't really inspire that much confidence in his or your veracity. Although , I'm sure your good buddies at Stormfront( who are big supporters of Piper's) would disagree.

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Bill Morgan
1/12/2015 08:20:27 am

Scot, You have attacked the author of the book without evaluating the content. I'm sure you have not read the 760 pages as I have two times. When you get off your "shoot the messenger kick" and want to discuss the details of his book and its conclusions, I will listen to your criticism. And for the record, I do not deny the holocaust, I'm not an anti-semite, I'm not a brown shirted Nazi, I'm not a White Nationalist, I'm not a member of Stormfront, etc. I'm a Jewish Afro American who spent 38 years working for the government.

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EP
1/12/2015 10:42:26 am

"I'm a Jewish Afro American"

Holy shit, are you a Nuwaubian?!

Scot
1/12/2015 02:09:45 pm

When did telling the truth about someone constitute an attack? Piper is an anti semite and a holocaust denier . Further he spends his time blaming the jews for everything from starting WWII to 9/11. He is also a good buddy of David Duke ( you know, the ex head of the KKK who hates everyone but inbreds like him) and is a devotee of Willis Carto , you might want to start doing a little bit of research on Carto since that is who has honed Piper's agenda. So no bill,no attack, just truth. And yes I did plow my way through his BS, and if you can't see it for the unmitigated dreck that it is I really couldn't care less , nor could I care less about your 38 years of supposed govt service. Even if true big deal. My uncle did 47 years, my father did 35 , counting my time in the reserves I did 23, again big deal. Just what did you do in the govt? did you have security clearance and if so what was it? And what the hell does what you I or anyone else do or did have to do with a crap book?

Matt Mc
1/12/2015 02:21:06 pm

I was born and raised in Washington DC and still live here. I can say without question that over half the people I have known in my life have work for the Govt for over 30 years. There is nothing special about working for the Govt. I have 8 years as an employee of the State Dept. working in international media relations with security clearance myself. If there is one thing I have learned about living in this city surrounded by the Govt. and its employees and contractors is that nobody can keep their mouth shut. Go to any bar on Capitol HIll, Adams Morgan, U Street, Shaw, or any other neighborhood or suburb of the city and start complaining about work and you can find out about almost anything.

Scot
1/12/2015 02:33:52 pm

Yeah I know Matt, I was in the military and even amongst officers, unless it was SF, you can find out a lot. Human nature. Actually besides being a troll I'm just wondering why he thinks working for the govt for 38 years makes a difference about anything, especially in reference to a joke of a book with nothing but conjecture in it.

Shane Sullivan
1/12/2015 03:42:33 pm

"If there is one thing I have learned about living in this city surrounded by the Govt. and its employees and contractors is that nobody can keep their mouth shut."

I dunno about that, Matt. I mean, it's not like we have a guy who claims to have worked for the government for 38 years blabbing about all the conspiracies the government has successfully executed. That would be rather self-defeating.

Oh wait, we do have that.

Carry on.

Jp
1/12/2015 06:45:39 am

Only Me, this post is out of sequence. For some reason the reply buttons are not working on my tablet. Hopefully you will see this. First, I was not referring to Jason's misuse of "Grand Cental Station", I was referring to AU's misuse, which they (SW & his writers) did on every occasion. Second, "Grand Central Station" is NOT a commonly accepted use. Look at every single subway sign in the city. Look at every single printed piece of material on NYC. Look at the definitive source on NYC tourism, Blue Guide New York. I can't believe you used wiki as a source. I'm a New Yorker and a licensed NYC tour guide. How much time do you spend in NYC?

I don't have a problem with a lay person from Kansas or wherever not knowing the difference. I'm kind of ok with Jason making the mistake; it is a tangential issue off the main body, and as he indicated, he had limited time to craft is week's review.

What I am not ok with is a show not doing their homework. It is like calling "Temple Mount" "Temple Hill" or "Temple Mound". What I am also not ok with is someone correcting me, quite incorrectly, and sourcing frigging Wikipedia, and not knowing jack about NYC.

I know, next Sunday, let's root for the New England Militia, the Green Bay Bratwurst Makers, the Indianapolis Appaloosas and the Seattle Albatross.

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John Dunham
1/12/2015 06:54:46 am

It is a legitimate difference. Penn Station is a station and Grand Central Terminal is a Terminal. A terminal is the "terminus" of a rail like, and Vanderbilt's railroad ended at Grand Central - it only goes to the north of GCT. The Pennsylvania Railroad goes Through Penn Station

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Only Me
1/12/2015 07:17:47 am

Okay, jp, here's the skinny. Your comment wasn't exactly clear as to who you were referring to, so, if you meant to chastise Wolter and his writers, I can accept that.

Your complaint about Wikipedia is invalid, as you said yourself:

" Even the most basic research would turn up this story".

Whether you like it or not, Wikipedia is basic research. That excerpt came from BBC's David Cannadine, who wrote "A Point of View: Grand Central, the world's loveliest station". If he got it wrong, okay, but it *is* a story related to GCT. Apparently, misuse of the terms is more widespread than I knew.

If you've been offended, that wasn't my intent, because I wasn't trying to correct you. For what it's worth, his episode on the rock wall in Rockwall, Tx rubbed me wrong, too.

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Kal
1/12/2015 06:54:19 am

I like how random people here pretend to be the host of AU and come here to rant and then SW actually blogs about them offending him somewhere else, as though he didn't send his trolls here. Like he wouldn't. It must be a conspiracy. Ha.

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EP
1/12/2015 09:22:12 am

Your comment consists of Juvenile personal attacks and adds No Value to the discussion ;)

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kelly
1/12/2015 12:16:40 pm

This is my 1st post to Jason's blog. Although I cannot stand shows like AU and AA, I began following this blog because to remain updated on various fringe theories. I do this to be able to provide counter arguments when discussing these subjects.

I have to admit that certain conspiracies get me a little ruffled. It is especially annoying when the advocates of these conspiracies refer to them as being 'proven' (which they are not) with 'evidence' (there is none). This is why I am going to respond to a couple of comments by Tom and Bill. Please be aware that I will not be trying to prove wrong anything, there is not enough space to tear down all of the things listed. Therefore, i will do as you gentlemen have done and provide avenues for you to do some research.

And Bill, 'government service' is a broad term. Without specific details of what you did, simply stating you were a civil servant does not qualify as holding special knowledge.

Ok, 1st let's talk about JFK. Start by reading books NOT written by Jim Marrs, Anthony Summers, Robert Groden, etc. These authors have been shown time and again to endorse falsehoods, fabrication, and outright lies. The background of these authors is relevant. To say they are simply messengers is incorrect. They claim to have researched the subjects and they draw conclusions.
I have researched and studied the JFK assassination for years. I even believed in a conspiracy at one time. However, after years of studying source material on the subject it became very clear that LHO shot JFK and acted alone.

The Manhatten Project is not a conspiracy. Neither was Operation Paperclip. By that logic, the U2, the Oxcart program, stealth fighter, etc. Would all be conspiracies. It is included in the list to pad the numbers.

And now for 911. On this one I'm afraid you have jumped the shark and are firmly planted in the tin foil hat club. There is no evidence of government involvement or it being an inside job. NONE. ZERO. NADA. As with JFK, try reading something NOT written by Dylan Avery, Alex Jones, Richard Gage, Steven E. Jones, etc.

Finally, I believe you forgot a few items in your list. I will add them for you.
- faked moon landings
- foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor
- Stabbed-in-the-back theory from interwar Germany
- Project Blue Book and NASA UFO cover up

And my sincere apologies to Jason and the regulars here for getting drawn into this. To quote Popeye, "I've had all I can stand and I can't stands no more."

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Jerky
1/12/2015 01:17:30 pm

Thank you Kelly for saying what needed to be said.

If it was not for my messed up keyboard that was just replaced an hour ago, I would have said all that. How any one can buy into this bs, they expect us to buy into a large number of people actively covering up, conspiring, and manipulating folks. The more people involved in a conspiracy, the harder it is to keep it hidden. People talk, people get drunk and brag, people cant keep there mouths shut. That alone makes any conspiracy doomed to fail.

Think about it like this, Watergate, how long did that conspiracy last before being made public? now look at 9/11, you expect me to buy that thousands of people starting from the construction of the WTC went in and planted explosive based paint on the walls inside? or that the military strapped missiles and bombs to the bottoms of the plains yet not one member of the ground crew, or of the air ports from with the plains took off that day saw these bombs and missiles but didn't sound the alarm to the media?

Roswell, my great uncle was in the air force when that "crash" happened, he told us a different story, the crash was a weather balloon, part of a secret project for spying on Russian nuke tests, called Project Mogul. It was an over sized weather balloon that carried equipment for measuring atomic radiation way up there in the sky. It got off its tethering line and drifted around before crashing in that farmers field.

Again, I will not "read a book" on subjects like this when the source material is better.



To Tom and Bill, Again, go peddle your conspiracy fear mongering to Alex Jones or Jessie V. Alex has his own YouTube channel, go there if you want to talk about these crazy conspiracy theories. This blog post is about the show America Unearthed, in particular, a review of an episode that hints at a Freemason Conspiracy. Just because Jason C. talked about that particular claim for what it was, does not open the door for you to spam this fear mongering "the government is out to get you" conspiracy bs. Most of these readers and commenters have come here to discuss the claims of the show made by it's host Scott F. Wolter., and not to talk about political based fear inducing conspiracies.

Again, neither Tom nor Bill have answered my question about "what this crap has to do with Scott or the show America Unearthed." Instead they have tried to justify why they should be allowed to say it. So again I ask, What does any of that have to do with Scott F. Wolter, America Unearthed, and this episode of America Unearthed in general?

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Rick
1/12/2015 01:57:47 pm

Yup, that list of conspiracies from earlier is a well organized type of trolling. Most of the trolls try to argue with other posters and play off them. It takes one seriously sad troll to bring their own list and frame an argument, and off topic at that. I'm pretty sure SW mentioned scaffolding in that episode too but you don't hear me spouting off about how I think OSHA is in cahoots with some companies. (I don't, by the way). If I wanted to discuss that I would go to an OSHA blog somewhere, unless I wanted to troll then I would seek out an off topic site and loosely tie it in then bust into the comments and fire off at everyone.

It's pretty sad. And an attempt to divert attention from the contents of the show. Like I said each blog post has one guy that appears and trolls. And they are always one at a time and never argue amongst themselves.

Matt Mc
1/12/2015 02:06:07 pm

Unless they are his (not so) royal StClair's relatives, they argued a lot.

Jerky
1/12/2015 02:20:05 pm

Well, To be fair, I just hate conspiracy nuts. Even if they are just trolls. But I do wish people would try to keep things on topic.

EP
1/12/2015 03:03:18 pm

This thread and the one preceding it are terrible for diametrically opposite reasons.

SknideCommander link
1/12/2015 05:25:21 pm

While I have enjoyed Jason's deconstruction of previous episodes, reading the dismissive review of the ones does as much disservice to the subject as SW's shenanigans.

The Egyptian Builders demonstrated absolute command of mathematics and astronomy. Why do you believe it impossible for our Forefathers to want to express their appreciation of these Builders, these Masters?

How condescending to suppose that our Forefathers went to such great lengths to enshrine Symbols in the very architecture of our Nation's capitol and then just packed up their books and went away! That they reckoned their effacement of time complete!

Which is a long way of saying that them boys may not've made a plum line to our 7-11 Goddess, but they sho nuff did a pretty good job!


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EP
1/12/2015 05:34:40 pm

cool story bro

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Frank
1/12/2015 10:52:57 pm

After reading through this entire blog, it appears a number of people have no real understanding of how the dark side of deep politics really works and how the Intelligence Agencies execute covert black operations. All of the major IA around the world have their assassination teams at play. To deny that political assassinations are carried out by the IA is to deny the reality of how the real world works. The people are always given a Cover Story by the controlled national news media and the real truth of who was behind a Black Ops. is always covered up. And a lot of people can keep a secret if they are told if they talk, they will be killed or their family members may be killed. It appears that a number of people on this blog have no clue how Black Ops really works.

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Matt Mc
1/13/2015 12:09:29 am

A statement like that shows that you have no real understanding of how the Intelligence world works and an even less understanding of how the media is used to forward and protect said intelligence.



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Frank
1/13/2015 03:18:05 am

Matt Mc, Are you saying the CIA, Mossad, MI6, etc. do not engage in political assassinations?? That they do not create a Cover Story to feed to the national news media to broadcast?

Matt Mc
1/13/2015 03:30:32 am

I am saying you are full of it. Believe whatever hype you want but that does not make it true.

As a person whose job was to create and distribute propaganda from the US govt world wide I can say you are way off base in what you think is done and how it is done.

Frank
1/13/2015 05:26:57 am

So you are not going to answer the questions. So your are saying there are no political assassinations by Intelligence Agencies and there are no Cover Up stories given to the news media. That is a strange world you are describing. Since you say your job was to distribute government propaganda, how can anyone believe what you say? You have a credibility gap by your own admission.

Frank
1/13/2015 05:33:52 am

Let’s see, by definition Propaganda is information of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

Only Me
1/13/2015 05:34:47 am

When it comes to credibility, I'll Matt Mc over you any day, Frank.

Only Me
1/13/2015 05:42:21 am

That should say, " I'll choose Matt Mc over you any day, Frank."

Especially since you haven't established your own credibility.

Matt Mc
1/13/2015 05:50:51 am

Frank, again your question is irrelevant since it shows you have no understanding what you are talking about.

Like comparing actual forensics to the TV show CSI you cannot compare a Hollywood/best seller interpretation of how intelligence and propaganda is obtained and utilized by given organizations against dramatic renditions. It is a lot more boring and uninteresting than you make it out to be.

But by all means keep believing what you believe in, it makes the people who currently work in the position I had job a lot easier.

I think people forget the intelligence community is a large bureaucracy full of ambitious people who would love to sell someone out to the press or the higher ups in order to advance. If you believe otherwise your lack of understanding truly shows.

Matt Mc
1/13/2015 06:01:12 am

Also Frank about propaganda, we are subjected to it everyday, constantly, every single print, radio, or TV ad is nothing but propaganda. A show like AU is a great example of blatant propaganda.

Trust me when I say that the hundreds of years or institutions using materials as propaganda and the hundred or so years of physiological studies and evaluation in how to most effectively used propaganda that cover ups are a great waste of time and almost always prove ineffective. Why worry about a specific incident or agency when over time you can directly influence a population, kind of like Mc Donalds or Nike, or Kleenex has.

EP
1/13/2015 06:05:26 am

I'LL MATT MC YOU ALL!!!

Frank
1/13/2015 07:27:36 am

Matt Mc, I asked two simple questions that could be answered in a simply way. They did not require the obtuse rambling of an answer you have given. I'm not learning anything new from you. You resort to negative character references which I did not do to you. I would expect your behavior from a teenager, but not from a mature adult with all of your government experience. I wish you the best. Have a nice retirement. I know I'm enjoying mine.

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Matt Mc
1/13/2015 07:50:38 am

All I am saying is your questions are silly and I will not be baiting into answering them.

Would I enter a larger debate with you, no I would not, simply you show a lack of understanding and a bias that says to me there is no point as to continue.

Also I never once said anything about your character. I did say that you thinking and beliefs about conspiracy theories are naive (which they are) but not a single thing about you as a person, simple because I do not know you as a person.



titus pullo
1/13/2015 01:00:47 am

First an interesting chain of opinions. Glad Jason allows these to sometimes go into larger subjects than the original post.

I've spent most of my life in large organizations including DOD and working for a govt funded research lab and then three large US corporations including where I work now (one of the two large private shipping firms in the US). My experience is once more than three people know anything, content will leak out. And the idea that there are vast multi-generational conspiracies is so ridiculous. That said from post view, it can appear like there were organized actions or yes conspiracies at work. Humans look to connect the dots and if you look at enough info you can start to believe there are causal relationships between people, events and so on and come to some conclusion of a vast "network" of some kind working against the "people".

That said, people organize and act all the time based on their perceived interests. One that seems appropriate given the thread of some of the responses is the alleged actions of some "world" zionist group to bring communism to the world. This was a favorite of the Nazis (their twisted logic had Bolsheviks being run by Jews). And over the years even folks like Churchill issued statements saying the Jewish race needed to choice between zionism and communism. Yes it did get that ridiculous in the 30s.

What was the evidence of this? The nut cases always point out to funding of anti Tsarist movements by wealthy Jews (usually bankers like Jacob Schiff a NY investment banker). But so what? The Tsars went on an anti -semitic program starting in the 1870s forcing millions of jews to leave Russia. Now if my parents were driven from their land by a racist govt and now in America I could help movements overthrow them...maybe I would. No Priory of Zion working here, just normal human reactions. Other facts like most of the Bolsheviks were jews was incorrect and even those that were had long since dropped any religion or cultural attachment to Judaism. Yet this idea permeated for decades.

A second example would be the Council of Foreign Relations. Most new world order types point out the CFR as the nexus of the world govt movement in the US. Truth is a little more murky. The CFR was originally formed to sell the US entry into WWI (not much different than Bush's using various conservative orgs to sell the Iraq war) by anglopiles and the British govt. Over time this org continued to support interventionist and trans national organizations as well as other institutions which support their views which do tend to be on the fabian side, then again did you ever meet a poli sci major who didn't like the idea of central control of anything? Do they work the media to promote their views? Sure they do but so does almost ever other "think tank." But in the end they really don't have any real power other than providing rationalizations to govt leaders to do what they already decided to do (Bush for example).

On the other side you see the same hysteria around the "tea party" and libertarians. Not a day goes by when I don't read on how say the Reason foundation is the scourge of the poor or minorities or they only care about the rich. I went to some tea party events a few years ago and was surprised to see most of the folks were by any definition classical liberals..they just wanted sound money, free markets, no bailouts, and stopping all this foreign interventions...and most had technical degrees ..they weren't stupid..just not liberal art majors in college.

As for JKF..I've leave my comments with this..years ago when I lived in Dallas I had to take everyone who visited to the Texas School Depository museum...one time I was on the 6th floor next to the window Oswald took the shots (the area is windowed off with a few book crates and a rifle/spent cartridges to make it look like the event just occurred). A German man was looking out the window next to the cubed off said to me in good english.."easy shot" and for anyone who ever fired a 22 and looked out that window..it was a very easy shot. Sorry it was Oswald..a very troubled young man.

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Byron DeLear
1/13/2015 02:50:48 am

It has to be a conspiracy Titus! Everybody knows "JKF" represents the largest multi-national conglomerates, not to mention its reference to "Morningstar" --- clearly a nod out in the open to Goddess worship being that the Morningstar is Venus.

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Shane Sullivan
1/13/2015 06:38:59 am

I've also heard rumors that JFK was really the Canadian Devil, Beelzeboot.

Tony
1/13/2015 07:13:50 am

"Otto Augustus Wall, who famously described the Golden Fleece as a blonde Aryan woman’s public hair, described the Central Park obelisk as one of the “phallic pillars” in his classic bit of pseudo-history Sex and Sex Worship (1919)"

Yikes, the Edwardian Age was a bit randier than I thought.

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Bill
1/16/2015 05:52:53 am

Has Scott Wolter read Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum?

"The lunatic on the other hand, doesn’t concern himself at all with logic; he works by short circuits. For him, everything proves everything else. The lunatic is all idée fixe, and whatever he comes across confirms his lunacy. You can tell him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars…There are lunatics who don’t bring up the Templars, but those who do are the most insidious. At first they seem normal, then all of a sudden…”

I'm not quoting this to call Wolter a lunatic. I'd much rather learn that his entertainment career has been a massive work of performance art to get people to think more critically about what's being put on the History Channel. If that came out as truth, I'd fly to Minnesota and buy him a beer.

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SknideCommander link
1/18/2015 02:56:46 am

Despite your denial, the implication is that accepting any premise other than Jason's - namely that all the grand Freemasonic architecture is nothing but happenstance - makes one a lunatic. While SW's conclusion may be questioned, Jason's conclusion is that these painstaking attempts at projecting Freemason do not exist at all.

Equating referential, grand designs by our Forefathers to random nothingness is another form of lunacy altogether. A plus B may not equal C, but to say they mean nothing at all is an astonishing conclusion in itself!

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Roger
1/18/2015 04:29:15 am

Many of the high ranking American and French Masons were instrumental in the Revolutions. George Washington was the highest ranking Mason in the Americas. One must remember that the Masons at the top of the Masonic pyramid are a secret society which holds secret meetings. Because of all the secrecy, that in itself creates a lot of conspiracy theories. I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but I do believe governments put out propaganda, disinformation, lies and engage in cover ups. If someone you know tells you propaganda, disinformation, lies and engages in cover ups, then you don't trust them. And the majority of Americans don't trust the government. Check the polls.

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ET
1/19/2015 12:57:43 am

Roger, Saying that governments put out propaganda, disinformation, lies and engage in cover ups is just plain stupid. Skeptics don't believe that. There is no evidence for that. You are not a real Skeptic. Get off this Forum.

Mark
1/20/2015 10:54:04 am

ET is right. Roger should be banned by Jason for his stupid post. Skeptics trust the government. Our government does not lie and engage in cover ups. Perhaps people should be required to say the Pledge of Allegiance before making a post to the Forum.

EP
1/20/2015 05:05:38 pm

@ Mark

LOL you're an idiot.

Eric Bishard link
1/18/2015 11:39:46 pm

#1 The Emmet obelisk at St. Paul’s (1831-33?)

#2 Worth Monument dedicated on November 25, 1857 (he died of cholera after the war in Texas in 1849)

#3 Cleopatras Needle in Central Park February, 22 1881 a gift from the Khedive (it's sister needle was erected on the Victoria Embankment in london on September 12, 1878) It's location was contested and changed several times.

#4 The statue, designed by Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi, a French sculptor and dedicated on October 28, 1886, was a gift to the United States from the people of France.

As Bartholdi had been planning a trip to the United States, he and Édouard Laboulaye decided the time was right to discuss the idea with influential Americans. In June 1871, Bartholdi crossed the Atlantic, with letters of introduction .

Arriving at New York Harbor, Bartholdi focused on Bedloe's Island as a site for the statue, struck by the fact that vessels arriving in New York had to sail past it, He learned that the island was owned by the United States government—it had been ceded by the New York State Legislature in 1800 for harbor defense. It was thus "land common to all the states." As well as meeting many influential New Yorkers,Bartholdi visited President Ulysses S. Grant, who assured him that it would not be difficult to obtain the site for the statue.

*Ulysses S. Grant sometime in or after 1871 assured that the island would be obtainable.
*In September 1875, the project was announced
*The arm was constructed and transported to Philly (fair), then New York (Madison Square Park) and back to France to join the building of the statue between 1875-1877
*On March 3, 1877 Grant signed a joint resolution authorizing acceptance and selection of the site.
*The head was completed by the 1878's Paris World's Fair
*By 1882 the rest of the statue was completed up to the waist
*The pedestal foundation began in 1883, and the pedestal's cornerstone was laid in 1884.
*The rest of the statue and construction finished in 1884(ish) and shipped to New York in 1885.
*The Statue of Liberty Arrived in New York Harbor in 200 boxes aboard the French steamer Isère 1885.
*The pedestal was completed April 1886. Immediately reassembly began (no one died during the construction). A ceremony of dedication was held on the afternoon of October 28, 1886.

Conclusion. There is no way that the poistions of the oblisks because of the placement of the egyptian oblisk which was changed several times and being all placed well before the statue of liberty location was ever known of are purposely setup in alignment to show the Orian Belt pointing towards ISIS. Not only do the oblisks not align perfectly, but the Status of Liberty is nowhere near where Isis would be located in that star alignment and the location of the statue of liberty would not have been known when those monuments were being placed.

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Eric Bishard link
1/19/2015 12:03:16 am

What I try to point out here is a timeline and some facts about these objects. I don't have all day to do it, but I believe that there was never any intentional significance to the idea that Scott Wolter tries to describe. I do think it's a coincidental alignment that may make one who likes to draw conclusions without all of the facts and present those ideas in a television show which he benefits from monetarily. At the end, the show makes me cringe as it always does with it's fake setup. It feels like the so called experts or people he meets with are instructed as to what to think to make the story of the show appear as they are finding these things out for the first time when you can research this shit going back years and years. Scott always claims that "HE THINKS" or HE HAS DISCOVERED" or "HIS WIFE HAS COME TO THE CONCLUSION". I find this all to be very fake and purposefully crafted to make idiots think this shit is really just being discovered. And the discoveries are usually half ass at best. I'm not here to debate anything, just give my opinion. I do watch every single show for the same reason Jason does, I constantly tell those watching with me. Ooh did you see that, what BS, like he doesn't know the guy he is about to meet up with's name. Like this shit wasn't all planned out by his production company, they really put on a show huh. You gotta take this type of TV as entertainment only. Do some real research if you want find out the real meanings. Make your own conclusions just as he does and hey, it doesn't have to be fact, just make some shit up!

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Sknide Commander link
1/24/2015 02:55:56 am

Is some scatological arguments may be stretching credibility, equally frustrating is the tendency for some so called rational skeptics to obscure inconvenient details. The Statue of Liberty was designed to be place at a significant spot at the Suez Canal by Freemasons. The after mentioned Robert Burns was in fact a high ranking Scott is Freemason. In both cases Jason and the commenter abiove both neglected to tell readers that this was the fact.

Jason is under the impression that just because he said something like Scott, it makes it so. He says that it was Sarah's is not a goddess of fertility, while the Encyclopaedia Britannica says that it is. Jason says that there are no sacred patterns bill into the street pattern of Washington DC when it is crystal clear that such pattern do exist and do appear intentional.

Jason says that supporters of the Obelisk theoryi are picking and choosing which obelisks to assign significance, while it should be very clear that the only obelisks of any significance are those that are associated with the so called sacred geometry.

One aspect of the statues design has gone without screwed tonight. And that is the 711 connection, seven points on top and 11 points on bottom; that is to say that the base of the statue has 11 points. Answer me this can you tell me any other significant landmark or or feature or symbolism that requires an 11 point star? No you cannot because the 7-Eleven is alluding to the great pyramid, which uses the sacred proportion of 7-Up 11 wide.

Conflating ancient astronaut theorists (lol) with those who can see secrets in plain sight is as dubious a proposition as those who insist on scatological references for everything.



Only Me
1/24/2015 10:38:03 am

@ Sknide Commander

Cool story, bro.

EP
1/19/2015 12:42:47 pm

Status of Liberty: "It's Complicated" :P

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Tony Marino
1/21/2015 04:55:50 pm

I'm no conspiracy theorist. I think this stuff is just plain nuts. People like this stretch kernels of truth into something bizarre,fantastic,and unbelievable. You should be careful about this stuff. The majority of conspiracy theories turn out to be just hearsay and myth more than anything.

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Mark
1/21/2015 10:06:44 pm

Tony, You are right. Skeptics trust the government. Our government does not put out propaganda, disinformation or lies and does not engage in cover ups. I have always believed Bush, Clinton and Obama. These are honorable men who we can trust to tell us the truth. If they lied to us, they would have been impeached. We have the best Congress on earth who puts the people first. Government officials do not pander to the Special Interest Groups and Money does not buy influence. We have a great Democracy and people who criticize the government should be tried for treason.

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Only Me
1/22/2015 05:51:41 am

RIP, sanity.

EP
1/22/2015 07:41:54 am

Mark, you sound mad. Why are you mad? Is it because you got put in your place by this blog's regulars? Is your ego wounded?

Tony Marino
1/23/2015 06:53:59 pm

Let me clear up what I'm saying. I go by the evidence. The only crime the government committed was on 9/11 was they didn't connect the dots to stop what happened that day. There was no provable conspiracy. Just that the FBI and the CIA messed up big time and lives were lost. It's like the Kennedy Assassination. There's no factual evidence to prove a conspiracy. It was just a lone,angry,nutjob who failed at everything else in his life,unfortunately succeeded at killing the President of the United States.
The problem is that the conspiracy theorists stretch what little facts ARE known into something unbelievable. They go into these wild flights of fancy which have nothing to do with what really happened. They have little evidence to back up what they claim and everyone else is so confused that no one knows what the real truth IS!

If we look at stuff like 9/11 rationally,you'll discover that instead of a massive government conspiracy,you have two government agencies that didn't communicate what they knew to each other and other agencies so that the real tragedy of 9/11 wasn't that there was this big conspiracy but that the government didn't have it's act together and people died. But,for some,it's easier to believe in a nefarious conspiracy rather than accept the fact of a massive intelligence failure in the agencies that are supposed to protect us.

THAT is the real truth behind 9/11. This and the research that "Popular Mechanics" did into the tragedy are based on real,proven science,not the paranoid ravings of people who believe in crazy,nutty stuff rather sane,rational,down-to-earth science that most sane people would accept.

Reply
Bob
1/24/2015 03:19:54 pm

Scott (actually his wife) "discovered" Cleopatra's Needle in Central Park??? I guess they never looked at a travel guide to NYC. The obelisk is mentioned in many tour guides and appears on maps of the park. It has been seen by tens of thousands of "geologically untrained" tourists.

Scoot, here's a secret. There are loads of obelisks in Brooklyn too.

Reply
RC
4/28/2015 04:54:46 am

I’ve read this entire blog, and the one thing I take away from all this incessant back and forth is, you’re all full of it.
It’s a show, get over your selves. Take five minutes, look in the mirror in an honest way, and you’ll see the asses you truly are. If the only propose you have in this world is tear down others, you need a serious attitude change. But you can’t do that because you’re too perfect and all religions are myths, so we can’t go there.
What a bunch of highly educated losers; I’ll bet your all real proud of yourselves right now.

Reply
Jerky
5/6/2015 02:32:30 pm

Tell that to the ass holes who tress passed on my land, damaged my crops, and tore out my fences in North West Oklahoma looking for proof of Celts in Oklahoma (that where never here), Free Mason documents (that never where real) that prove some crazy Templar claim. You say it's just a show, Then you are full of your self. There are to many idiots of buy this show as real and go off looking for proof and don't care whose property they damage. So if tearing down some ones bullshit claims keeps idiots from tress passing on my farm land, thin I am all for it. Maybe you should take a look at the damage these numb nuts are inflecting with there idiotic claims before you start berating others for trying to run some much needed damage control.

Reply
Julio M. Barriere link
7/12/2016 10:03:48 am

Back on August 3, 2012 I Julio M. Barriere did a CLOSE ENCOUNTER-5 (CE-5) with Nick Curto's disclosure group. We did it at night and the skies were cloudy at first for an hour. I was playing on my boom boxes sync from my apple products Dr. Steven Greer ET contact tools that has his meditations and UFO tones. The skies became clear after an hour and this Francisco jumps up off that Central Park bench in front of this cleopatra needle obelisk. He says theirs one while pointing to the sky looking west and a UFO was flying northerly. Another member to this disclosure group also screams out theirs another. I was truthly stun to see this happen. Another member said theirs another UFO flying across the sky. We all look and notice that three UFOs form a triangle in the sky just northeast over this cleopatra needle obelisk. To my thinking an obelisk to me was a antenna. That triangle in the sky that those three UFOs form represented a pyramid and a pyramid to me was also a antenna. So I though that those starships were relating to me of a connection of communicating of a site where I was. Three weekends back I was in Brandtford, Ontario Canada. On June 24, 2016 the experiencers had the opportunity to tell their stories at this alien cosmic expo 2016 ufo conference. I told my story to this audience and said to go outside tonight and see hovering UFOs that follow me around the world. That Friday night June 24, 2016 after I pointed out UFOs to this UFO conference crowd. I walk among this crowd and ask everyone if their saw hovering UFOs. They all stare at me with a serious look in their eyes and said yes we saw hovering UFOs. At that alien cosmic expo 2016 ufo conference I came across a Jason Quitt. He had pharaoh cylinders with a pharaoh postures book to sell. I bought them and also the book he wrote Forbidden Knowledge which is phenomenon to read. Anyway I purchase the pharaoh cylinders with the pharaoh postures book that it's call Egyptian Postures of Power. I did a CLOSE ENCOUNTER-5 at the cleopatra needle obelisk last Saturday, July 2nd, 2016. I did the pharaohs postures while holding the pharaohs cylinders in my hands. I was playing integratron music. After I finish doing these pharaoh postures I went and sat down on the Central Park bench facing west with the obelisk directly in front of me. I look up that it was about fourty five minutes that evening before complete darkness. I saw this star ship just southwest of this obelisk that it's there all year round. Nick Curto with his disclosure group can verify of seeing this star ship there all year round because we do CLOSE ENCOUNTER-5 (CE-5) all year round and see this starship all year round in that same stationary position. It's part of the star fleet that follow me around the world. Nick Curto web site DNNY.info just press the square box on the upper left hand corner and his page will come up. Anyway while I was looking up at that star ship. A giant bird caught my eye that was flying with its outstretched long wings without it flapping its wings. It was going from north to south over this cleopatra needle obelisk than it made a ninety degree turn towards the west where that starship was. I couldn't see the rest of the flight of that bird because the sky was too cloudy just west of that starship. Nick Curto will have his next meeting this coming Sunday, July 17th on my birthday. I might go to the obelisk and do a pharaoh posture there. I notify Jason Quitt of this experience and he said that I had a very rare sighting of the hawk of Horus. Stay tune. Julio

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