The episode opens with Blue Nelson and Mike Arbuthnot traveling to Minnesota to examine the Kensington Runestone. Nelson calls it “one of the most fascinating” artifacts in America, and they note that “some” believe the artifact to be authentic and others feel it is a hoax. They decline to note that the date on the stone—1362—is after the Viking age (traditionally said to have ended in 1066), so while it would be Norse if genuine, it is not Viking.
At the Runestone Museum in Alexandria, Minn., the two men examine the rune stone and have special permission from the museum to inspect it close-up, outside of its display case. Nelson claims that “a lot of effort” went into the carving of the stone if it were a hoax, apparently suggesting that hoaxers are unwilling to put in effort. The sixty forged volumes of the Hitler diaries suggest otherwise. Using only a magnifying glass, Nelson says that the “cool” stone looks like it has not weathered enough to be genuinely medieval. Arbuthnot scans it with a portable 3-D scanner and says it will be the highest-resolution computer model ever made of the stone. Both men are more interested in the scan than the actual stone, despite the original object being available in front of them. As we might suspect, the show expects the audience to be in awe of technology rather than history. In a sign of the lack of care that went into this show, no one bothers to connect the narrative on the rune stone about finding ten from the Norse party mysteriously and violently dead to the supposed war with Native Americans that the show speculated about last week. Perhaps they are not too interested in depicting their heroes on the losing end of battles. More likely, no one really thought through the master narrative and did not consider continuity. The men then travel to the site where the rune stone was uncovered in 1898, at the park where the expensive Kensington Runestone memorial bathroom—er, Douglas County’s Kensington Rune Stone Park Visitors Center—was erected last year. There, the men plan to test the soil to evaluate how much weathering the stone should have undergone if it had been buried for 500 years. This, I suppose, relies on a number of assumptions, such as the stone having been buried for 500 years rather than, say, falling down a hole after 200 or so, and the soil containing the same chemical composition today as it had in 1362—or the plowed-over top soil from what was a working farm accurately representing medieval soils down below. Arbuthnot concludes that the soil was not acidic enough to have weathered the stone significantly. They suspect, though, that the wetness of the soil—again, assuming this remained constant over 500 years—could have affected the weathering. Examining the depth of the carving on two different rock layers of varying hardness, the two men cannot agree whether the different depths of the carving represented weathering from the 1890s or 1362. Therefore, they decide to use ridiculous evidence to break the tie. They plan to determine whether a Viking ship could make the 1,600-mile trip from the mouth of the St. Lawrence River to Duluth, Minn., thus “proving” that if “we can do it, they can do it.” It turns out they can’t do it because the river they wanted to use to test out their ideas froze over. In fact, they never really tried to go across the continent by ship. They barely even tried to go farther than your average party barge travels on a Saturday night booze cruise. Needless to say, the possibility that Vikings could sail up rivers implies nothing about whether Norse explorers carved a stone in the Minnesota woods three centuries later. Much of the episode is devoted to the buddies commissioning a replica Viking ship (a glorified three-man canoe, really, not a massive long-ship), training to develop “survival skills” to make the journey in the style of the Vikings, and then going into lengthy detail on the manufacture of the various accoutrements needed to conduct a Viking journey. They also attempt to recreate the carving of the Kensington Runestone. The two men suggest that if they can carve a convincing rune, then “even a Minnesota farmer” could have done so. This is a rather insulting way to put it, since Victorian farmers likely had much better artisanal skills than modern TV personalities. Arbuthnot fails miserably, but Nelson managed to carve a convincing rune. Nelson correctly notes that the long period of time it would have taken to carve the rune stone—several days, or a week—doesn’t match the story told on the stone, which speaks of a disaster. He continues to doubt its authenticity. His partner in crime takes the opposite role. “It’s one hell of a hoax, if it’s a hoax,” Arbuthnot insists, still playing the role of believer. Near the end of the hour, we get a long segment showing Nelson and Arubthnot camping in what they say is Viking style while waiting for a guide to find them a place to try sailing their replica Viking ship on a river encrusted with two inches of ice. This is a rather disappointing development since they set up their adventure to be a journey from the St. Lawrence to Duluth, only to have their experiment amount to a few yards on an icy stretch of a rather gentle Minnesota river. I’d have rather liked to see how they intended to have the ship travel across the Great Lakes and between them, across the most dangerous parts of the 1,600-mile route they laid out. What we got was a gentle little Sunday sail, albeit a cold one in “bone-chilling” 21° weather (to which: I laugh at your definition of cold weather), lasting perhaps 30 minutes. The men express their excitement that the boat performed well, though we already knew it would since the Vikings used similar ships to sail around European rivers. Nelson claims to want to believe that the rune stone is authentic, but he remains unconvinced. Arbuthnot claims to believe that the Vikings had the technology to reach Minnesota and therefore might have. Neither proved anything and wasted a great deal of time in what was essentially a shrug of the shoulders and a big “I don’t know.” The relative equality between the two men and their views gives spurious support to the notion that believers in the authenticity of the stone are equal in number and in evidence to those who have concluded it is a hoax, as the scholarly consensus clearly favors. Thus, the show indirectly supports the minority claim that the stone is real if only by presenting this as a serious option of equal standing to the weight of scholarly opinion. Once again, the episode falls into the same pattern as its predecessors: Clearly, the producers and talent wanted to explore Viking sailing techniques on inland waterways and thrashed around for a “mystery” of dubious merit to fool the network and the audience into thinking they were investigating Vikings in the American interior rather than their real focus. The lack of interest in their putative subject is rather amazing, but the cynicism in assuming the American audiences are so xenophobic and America-centric that even a topic as exciting as the Vikings can’t be made interesting to them unless it connects to the United States is depressing.
320 Comments
Joe Scales
3/5/2019 10:10:02 am
I was glad that they at least focused on one of the fatal flaws of the KRS; the runes carved in calcite. I suppose they cherry-picked the spot with the neutral soil, though it would likely be more acidic in a grove of aspen trees. Still, they left out quite a bit of facts leading to concluding it was a hoax. Like Ohman having stone cutting tools, the problematic wording on the stone itself and the fact that the out of the ordinary runes (like that dreaded hooked X) were used as part of a code by 19th century Swedish tradesmen and can't be found prior to that time.
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Jim
3/5/2019 11:04:25 am
Did they give a PH balance for the soil that Wolter claims to be 9-11 (yikes) ?
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Jim
3/5/2019 03:23:26 pm
Watching the show, the pH meter showed about 6.5 or slightly acidic.(7 being neutral) Since the pH meter only goes to 8 tops on the alkaline side Wolters BS 9-11 pH would be completely off the charts.
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Harold Edwards
3/6/2019 08:28:01 pm
Soils with a pH of 9-11 are found in salt lake areas in arid climates. They have no calcite since calcite acts as a pH buffer to keep the pH around 8.4.
Jim
3/7/2019 12:10:31 am
Herald, My comments and responses from Wolter:
Harold Edwards
3/7/2019 01:16:43 am
In Wolter's chapter in Nielsen and Wolter, The Kensington Rune Stone Compelling New Evidence, he noted on page 27 the pH at the find site was 7.5. This is a reasonable number for this soil depending where and how deep he conducted the test. He did not give his testing protocol.
Harold Edwards
3/7/2019 08:51:28 am
Soil pH does not tell us much more than the neutralizing power of the soil relative to calcite. What is important is the pH of the water percolating through the soil. Pure water has a pH of 7. Rainwater is a weak acid with a pH of 5.6. It has become so by absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Air has 400 parts per million carbon dioxide. In soil atmospheres the carbon dioxide levels are between 1000 and 10,000 parts per million. Under aspen trees it becomes as much as 30,000 parts per million. At 10,000 parts per million carbon dioxide, the pH of the water is 4.6, ten times as acidic as rainwater.
Jim
3/7/2019 10:56:36 am
This might be a good place to provide a link to Andy white's blog post where you talk more about this and would be enlightening to anyone who hasn't already read it.
Joe Scales
3/7/2019 11:02:26 am
"Below the surface this would have happened at an even fewer years."
Joe Scales
3/7/2019 11:06:12 am
Check that, before the pedantry sets in. That would be 19th century geology.
Jim
3/7/2019 11:17:01 am
Joe, that's fully on display when Wolter changes his data at will to support his conclusion.
Harold Edwards
3/7/2019 11:19:14 am
Winchell did not base his belief that the Kensington Stone was genuine upon the weathering of the artifact. About that he concluded that the artifact was “either recent or the stone was so placed (or was overturned) as to protect the inscription from the weather.” Minnesota Historical Society's 1910 report, p. 248.
Joe Scales
3/7/2019 11:26:44 am
"Winchell did not base his belief that the Kensington Stone was genuine upon the weathering of the artifact."
Harold Edwards
3/7/2019 11:37:40 am
If you want to see calcite weathering in action, visit the National Cemetery at Ft. Snelling outside Minneapolis. This cemetery opened in 1960. The graves that were previously buried near Ft. Snelling itself were transferred to the new site at that time. There are more than 250,000 graves at this cemetery, over 90% have marble tablets. The policy of the VA is to replace tablets that become too decrepit due to weathering. The "star" of the cemetery is Captain George H. Mallon, a Congressional Medal of Honor winner from WWI who died in 1934. His tablet has been replaced twice since 1934. The new tablets were polished smooth. The first sign of weathering of the marble surface is called granular weathering. Over time--less than 50 years--the surface takes on a sandy appearance on both the face of the tablet and the inscription. This is called granular weathering and is characteristic of calcite rich rocks. The Kensington Stone shows granular weathering on the surface of the calcite layer but NOT on the surface of the runes. They were thus carved about 1898 and not in in 1362.
Harold Edwards
3/7/2019 12:06:07 pm
The Museum Committee of the Minnesota Historical Society which vetted the artifact in 1909-1911 had no linguistic experts on it. None of them spoke Swedish or Norwegian. Winchell, the Society's Archaeologist, did the linguistic analysis in his report himself using various dictionaries. The Committee reached out to experts in both the U.S. and Sweden. There were about half a dozen of them. To a man, they wrote back that the artifact was a fake. It had 19th runes then current in the Dalarna Province of Sweden. The only person opposing them was Hjalmar Holand. He was assisting the Committee and contributed to Winchell's report. At the sane time Holand was trying to sell the artifact to the Minnesota Historical Society for $5000, that is about $100,000 in today's money. Today this would be viewed as a serious conflict of interest, and there would be a scandal with possible legal consequences for both Holand and Winchell. At the very least, Holand would be sent packing and Winchell fired. The only person other than Holand who knew Swedish and Norwegian was Gisle Bothne, Professor of Scandinavian Languages at the University of Minnesota. He objected to the Committee's conclusion. In the summer of 1910 he went to Kensington to interview those involved in the discovery, i.e. Olof Ohman. Bothne wrote the Committee he did not believe their stories. Unfortunately when asked for specifics by Warren Upham, the Secretary of the Society, Bothne did not reply. I have read all of this in the Society's archives in St. Paul and have copies of most of it.
Jim
3/7/2019 01:01:32 pm
Hjalmar Holand was worse than Wolter. Among his many hi-jinks was his translations of the Swedish witnesses to English for reports on the KRS.
Harold Edwards
3/7/2019 01:19:59 pm
In 1899 Olof Ohman was committing a crime by trying to sell his forgery to Northwestern University. He knew it was a fake because he sent them a tracing of the draft used to create the hoax. Then, as now, this would have been a felony. He also involved his two minor sons, 11 and 10 years old. Corrupting minors was a misdemeanor in 1899. The fact that he did not consummate his fraud would not have prevented his prosecution. He would have only received half the prison sentence if convicted. In 1909-1911 he continued his fraud. It is a mistake to assume because at that time he obtained little or nothing of value, that he could not be prosecuted. The element of the crime is not that the criminal gains anything of value, but that his victim loses something of value. Think about all the time, effort, and expense spent by experts worldwide along with the Minnesota Historical Society. Also he actually did receive value for his fraud. In 1911 the Minnesota Historical Society bought his interest in the artifact for $10.00--about $200 in today's money. These acts are rarely prosecuted. Organizations like Northwestern University and the Minnesota Historical Society do not want to be seen as schmucks. They keep silent and move on. That is why he evaded prison.
Machala
3/5/2019 11:24:34 am
Next we'll be watching Blue Nelson and Mike Arbuthnot travel to Cardiff, New York to try to prove that the "petrified giant" found there in 1869 was really a "Viking" warrior, killed by Skrælings, buried by his fellow incursionistas, and pertified due to the unusal acid quality of the soil.
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Jim
3/5/2019 11:44:03 am
Only to have the Welsh, in a burst of nationalistic pride claim that the giant is actually from Cardiff Wales.
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titus pullo
3/5/2019 08:52:02 pm
Ah..the Cardiff Giant is at the Famers museum in Cooperstown NY...
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Machala
3/6/2019 09:29:10 am
They're going to Cardiff, N.Y. to do soil testing on the site of the original discovery.
Jim
3/6/2019 10:25:27 am
We need Roger Spurr to do testing on this petrified giant.
Poodleshooter
3/6/2019 06:42:19 pm
No, he's clearly got a turtleneck.
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Shane Sullivan
3/5/2019 12:01:19 pm
"What we got was a gentle little Sunday sail, albeit a cold one in “bone-chilling” 21° weather (to which: I laugh at your definition of cold weather) ... "
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Haggis MacBagpipe
3/10/2019 05:07:43 pm
21 degrees, oh my, how terrible. Here in Nova Scotia, an Arctic high pressure system has had the temperature in the minus numbers, even in Fahrenheit. Also, the winds have been blowing from north,and northwest, that adds to the cold by varying degrees, none of them pleasant.
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Paul
3/5/2019 12:40:29 pm
Was this show produced by 8th graders? One, would seriously doubt the results of a pH test in frozen soil. Then, who in their right mind would simulate a Viking river trip in the dead of winter in Minnesota? The stone was scanned in Hi Def but nothing was done with the scan. They lug around an iron cauldron and make believe camping, leaving the boat to be stolen or broken up by natives. Probably boil Dinty Moore stew. Carve one half assed letter and say my it must have taken a long time to carve the stone. Nothing about the style, the linguistics the numbering system, the futhark used in the text. This series deserves to rot in hell.
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/5/2019 02:29:36 pm
I have never watched this show. From reading the reviews, I picture Goober and Gomer Pyle running through the woods playing make believe. Happy, I missed them mutilating pork in the woods last week. Never been happier to be cable free.
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Paul
3/5/2019 03:37:49 pm
The deformed X, in the futhark used on the KRS, (not to infringe on Scottie) corresponds to the letter A in our alphabet, Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing to do with Templars, Vikings or any other manner of pseudo history.
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/5/2019 04:43:18 pm
Paul,
I Don't Like Scott Wolter
3/6/2019 09:28:40 pm
The OK gesture can stand for the evil eye, the letter F, the number 9, the rising and setting of the sun, or to signal that a scuba diver is safe.
Kent
3/5/2019 08:17:18 pm
"The Trademarked Symbol is far older than anyone realizes."
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/6/2019 12:06:34 am
Kent, dan, whomever,
Kent
3/6/2019 01:04:38 am
I see decorative X's. The gazebo in my neighbor's yard is made up of nothing but decorative X's. Not really making your case here Bubba. So far the photos you've recommended are all shot with a paraideolia lens. No closeup photography or telephoto lenses for you.
Paul
3/5/2019 05:13:00 pm
So, I will disagree with you on this. Look at the Edward Larsson notes, the rune row that matches the runes used on the KRS, the X is our A. There are no AE diphthongs in the common translations. There are some rune rows that may have the deformed X as the AE but not here. Believe as you will.Btw, there are only two locations where the KRS runes are reported, one in Edward Larsson's notes, where he happened to settle near where the KRS was found and in a small area of Sweden until modern times and coincidentally where Larsson was from. Other interesting tidbit, the numbering system used on the KRS matches Larsson's notes and the system used in that same area of Sweden. There are many rune rows, but this is more than a coincidence. You can make your coin out to be whatever you want it to be. The KRS is a modern carving.There are other issues with the KRS but I am done here.
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/5/2019 06:04:46 pm
Paul,
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Paul
3/5/2019 08:10:02 pm
Think you misunderstood. I am not disagreeing with you. There were a number of Runic alphabets, if you wish to call them that. At different times and different contexts, similar symbols may represent different things. No one size fits all. On th e KRS the hooked x is a in our alphabet, pure and simple. In other contexts it may well represent what you say or even different values. Find out the context of the coin to give it meaning. As for the KRS, do not fall for the Wolter route, he can not analyze himself out of a wet paper bag. The KRS is a modern day carving.
Which is worse?
3/5/2019 05:44:49 pm
Which is worse - the lunatic fringe or the churchgoer
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An Anonymous Nerd
3/5/2019 07:18:17 pm
No one should fall for stuff like the Kensington Rune Stone. Especially not anyone educated. And especially people who claim to be in the field that actively investigates stuff like that.
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Harold Edwards
3/5/2019 08:41:22 pm
I was approached by the researchers for this series last summer--not the two hosts. I never interacted with them. I gave the researchers everything I had, including data on the soils at Runestone Hill and the fact that calcite weathers faster underground than at the surface. That is how sinkholes and caves form in limestone terrains. It is called karst geology. What people fail to appreciate is is that the equilibrium pH of calcite is 8.4 and any pH lower than that will cause calcite to dissolve over time.
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Jim
3/5/2019 09:54:23 pm
"the equilibrium pH of calcite is 8.4 and any pH lower than that will cause calcite to dissolve over time."
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Harold Edwards
3/6/2019 09:44:17 am
Pushing a probe into the ground to measure pH is not the accepted protocol for measuring soil pH. See:
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Jim
3/6/2019 11:33:32 am
It does not matter what pH test you use, they are all useless for dating the stone. 3/6/2019 09:46:02 am
Always great to see you here Harold. Did you get a load of this?
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Harold Edwards
3/6/2019 10:19:02 am
Here is a peer review of Wolter's work on the Kensington Stone:
Harold Edwards
3/6/2019 11:48:42 am
I have you and most people at a disadvantage. I have copies of Wolter's SEM work on the KRS and the Maine slates. These are available from the Minnesota Historical Society. What is important is not what Wolter publishes but what he leaves out. I expect Wolter did not provide these to his peer reviewer!
Dave
3/6/2019 02:36:58 pm
Mr. Edwards is there a way to contact you? I would like to interview you.
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Harold Edwards
3/6/2019 03:34:13 pm
No.
Dave
3/6/2019 04:57:55 pm
That's too bad but I understand. Do you think it is possible that someone else chose Ohman as a dupe? I have long thought it was all b.s. for many years now but always hoped that he wasn't involved directly. Thank you for exposing this information.
Harold Edwards
3/6/2019 07:09:06 pm
If you look at public documents including property records from 1898 and the newspaper accounts in early 1899, you will learn the following:
Dave
3/6/2019 08:44:48 pm
Mr. Edwards, That is all very informative. I read an article the other day that exposed how the numbers on the stone match the PLSS legal description of the property that Mr. Ohman owned. Even the way Mr. Wolter explains these numbers matches the PLSS legal description of Solem Township in section 14. Of course Mr. Wolter attributes these numbers to some sort of Cryptic Freemasonry. So that is also quite a coincidence. The PLSS wasn't applied to Minnesota until about 1860.
Harold Edwards
3/6/2019 09:12:09 pm
https://aardvarchaeology.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/kensington-runestone-fakers-si/
Paul
3/7/2019 03:21:15 pm
Hi Dave, do you have or could you point to the website with the PLSS designation that matches farm to runestone? Just curious how they match section, township and range. Thanks.
Jim
3/7/2019 06:17:45 pm
Paul,
Jim
3/7/2019 06:37:31 pm
Also 1916 map here, rather than 1950 map in above post.
Dave
3/8/2019 01:06:18 pm
The very first Solem Township PLSS map is from 1861. T127N R40 E, (numbers total 14) Meridian 5. The stone was in Section 14 and was found very close to the SE corner of Ohman's property. His property is located in the NW and NE quarter sections of #14. The two land surveyors who collected data on this map are interesting characters in Minnesota and Masonic history as well. Land surveyors often mark property divisions using the PLSS with stone cairns or incised stones.
Kent
3/5/2019 08:45:39 pm
"Arbuthnot scans it with a portable 3-D scanner and says it will be the highest-resolution computer model ever made of the stone."
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Jim
3/8/2019 10:30:22 am
Here is an article about the KRS that I read after using google translate
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Joe Scales
3/8/2019 01:27:18 pm
Here's someone trying to bait Wolter on his blog:
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Jim
3/8/2019 01:52:43 pm
Doug:
Kent
3/8/2019 07:32:52 pm
I saw both of these excellent quotes. And it really does help to click the "Load more..." at the bottom as Jim pointed out. Mr. Wolter to use a buzzword *curates* his idiocy and this may be wishful thinking but it seems to get more idiotic with time.
Harold Edwards
3/8/2019 02:56:40 pm
There is nothing you can say to Wolter and his followers that will change their minds. I present the facts so that people new to the issues can make up their minds.
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Jim
3/8/2019 04:29:42 pm
Without even getting into the really short season that it is ice free in the Hudson Bay.
Jim
3/8/2019 04:49:37 pm
Going from L'Anse aux Meadows to the Hayes River via the Atlantic ocean is about 1900 miles.
William Smith
3/10/2019 02:04:40 pm
Good recap of another TV distortion of the facts. They did not investigate any new information that has been put forth. 1- The distance in one day in seaman terms is 72 miles. This is the average speed of ships of the period. They even standardized their maps so a tool like a cloth measure (spin wheel with 30 points) could be used to estimate the number of days (72 miles) they would need to travel from one point to another. The 900 miles north from Kensington by water (Red and Neilson) would be very close to 1000 miles.
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Harold Edwards
3/10/2019 04:13:14 pm
You need to present your source materials. You were not present in 1362, so how do you know any of this?
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William Smith
3/10/2019 05:45:04 pm
You sure seem to have all the answers, it is a shame the TV crew did not use your information about your education in Geology and the 1898 Newspaper you claim makes the local farmer the carver.
Jim
3/10/2019 06:38:38 pm
William Smiths book.
Harold Edwards
3/10/2019 06:42:01 pm
In 1362 the King of Denmark was Valdemar IV. His mother was Euphemia of Pomerania. Her father was Bogislaw IV, Duke of Pomerania, and her mother was Margarete of Rugen.
Poodleshooter
3/10/2019 09:08:40 pm
@Harold Edwards: William Smith is one of the crazy people who post here. He literally thinks toothpicks and credit cards are legitimate scientific measuring instruments and photographing something from different angles is a 3D photograph.
Jim
3/10/2019 05:28:58 pm
http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2019/03/09/the-kensington-runestone-is-still-not-real-americas-lost-vikings-episode-4/?fbclid=IwAR3kTGKcKWs5V3NyoiWjp5dyM_ZmkwsKnIB2SHbAHTS_S50keMIZIbmGw6A
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William Smith
3/10/2019 07:25:16 pm
Thanks Jim, I am not promoting my book on this site, however it does address many points where Scott Wolter and the History Chanel are wrong. This attachment may get you access faster. The paper is being updated to include 3new sites that link the KRS to 1472. As for the kings being related in 1362, the paper will show how the mothers of the kings in 1472 were related as sisters from the house of Lancaster, England. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ELErx18O14_78FAtyx_V3c48pGfUdUiI
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Jim
3/10/2019 07:54:20 pm
Oh, don't thank me, I only put it up there to help demonstrate the pure nonsense you are pitching.
William Smith
3/10/2019 08:04:47 pm
Jim - It is good that it tickled your fancy.Did you view all 120 slides and open and look at all the 125 citations. It takes about a week to read all and view all the attachments. Tell me what tickles your fancy. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_OqDFCFuQ2rxsslAatzUAZmEm2KbxgMR
Jim
3/10/2019 08:55:01 pm
No, I am not going to point out again, point by point all your nonsense.
Harold Edwards
3/10/2019 08:57:22 pm
In 1472 the King of Denmark was Christian I. His mother was Helvig of Schauenburg. Her father was Gerhard VI of Holstein-Rendsburg, and her mother was Catherine Elisabeth of Brunswick-Lüneburg.
Poodleshooter
3/10/2019 09:22:52 pm
@Wiliam Smith: You're right about one thing, you're NOT promoting your book.
William Smith
3/10/2019 09:33:47 pm
In 1472 the king of Portugal was not Alfonso V, it was Alfonso VI, The king of Denmark was Christian. At least you were half correct. As for the reference to the viking site with bog iron, studied for two years and found to be the works of Mother Nature. You will see my link which explains the mistake made by the academics and how they retracted their support for any man made evidence found at the site.
Harold Edwards
3/10/2019 09:38:36 pm
My source on Alfonso V was Wikipedia:
Harold Edwards
3/10/2019 09:44:13 pm
Alfonso VI of Portugal reigned from 1656 to 1683.
Jim
3/10/2019 10:02:49 pm
"You will see my link which explains the mistake made by the academics and how they retracted their support for any man made evidence found at the site. "
Harold Edwards
3/11/2019 01:01:28 am
Graywacke is a variety of sandstone. The word is from the German for "dirty stone" because of the amount of mud entrained with the sand before these sediments became rock. The front of the Kensington stone has several steps in which layers have been broken off to make the front surface. A similar graywacke is found in New York state. It is called bluestone and was used to construct sidewalks in New York, and Minnesota as well, during the late 19th Century. Here are some bluestone sidewalks in front of the Brooklyn Borough Hall:
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Doc Rock
3/10/2019 08:09:27 pm
Oh for the good old days. Back when the Kensington Stone was either a clever hoax or proof that a small group of Norse managed to work their way into Minnesota as a one shot sort of deal.
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William Smith
3/10/2019 08:22:06 pm
MASTER409
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/10/2019 10:43:04 pm
I had never heard of the Kansas City Slater Stone. After viewing a picture, I was shocked to see a symbol, which is also present on the Newport Tower. There are multiple Pentadic, Runic, and other expressions carved into the tower . INCLUDING the "HOOKED X".
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Jim
3/10/2019 10:58:47 pm
https://www.shsu.edu/~pin_www/T%40S/sliders/2012/frankkirune.html
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/10/2019 11:42:11 pm
The 8s in the alleged 1888 sure do resemble latitude lozenges.
William Smith
3/10/2019 11:42:50 pm
Harold - After checking the records the King of Portugal in 1472 was Alfonso V and the King of Denmark was Christian 1. Their mothers were Eleanor and Helvig.
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/11/2019 12:00:09 am
I have no skin in game but, you're way off on the Newport Tower. WAY OFF!
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William Smith
3/11/2019 10:39:11 am
ACCUMULATED WISDOM - Please explain what is way off on the Newport Tower????
Poodleshooter
3/11/2019 12:03:45 am
I rest my case. What you say is a smokehouse, its OWNER called a "mill".
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Joe Scales
3/11/2019 10:13:46 am
Let me be the third (if I haven't already). William, you are a blithering idiot, and you are absolutely batshit crazy if you feel you have anything of any importance to convey here on this blog. Why you even come here is beyond me. At least in Anthony's case, he peppers this blog with nonsense, but then goes back to Wolter for an "attaboy". So what purpose do you think you're serving here? You spout nonsense. Proof by assertion that on its face is erratic, deficient and asinine. But you don't realize this. Why? Because you are an imbecile. An ignoramus. A blithering idiot. A very stupid, stupid man.
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William Smith
3/11/2019 10:14:24 am
Harold - In that you have a real name I will share some old information with you. In 2015 I posted this information (When researching the KRS be sure to weigh the facts against the theories. James Knirks study of the KRS was one hour compared to the many hours put in by other researchers. Also keep in mind that just going to the museum is not research by itself. You must find something that is academic proof such as a few listed as follows A- Their is tool marks on the stone made by man. B- One side of the stone was cut by man to allow additional carving.C- The man made runes are only on the upper 2/3 s of the front and side of the stone. D- Their is a line just below the runes on the stone that has been recognized by all researchers who layed hands on the stone, It was called a ground line until 2012 when it was measured and renaimed as a mechanical wear line. NOTE: Mr H Williams was made aware of this after his 2012 report and his opinion may lean more toward authinticity than before. E- The porosity holes in non carved areas on the back of the KRS are only present on the upper 2/3 of the stone. F- All the runic letters have been proven to have been in existance in the 1362 date period. G- The 1494 treaty between Spain and Portugal speek of a boundry stone in the KRS location. H- No facts have been put forth that indicate to beyond any dought the KRS is a fake. (WHY< WHEN< WHO< WHERE and WHAT FOR). The following link will allow a download program of the KRS which allows you to rotate, zoom and study the KRS from your computer. Note: This is the only 3D program that has been made public, even though their exist two photo depth scanning programs that focus on the runic letters only and do not address the other features of the stone. http://www.photospherix.com/3d-view/kensington-ruinstone/)
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Joe Scales
3/11/2019 10:26:08 am
"The 1494 treaty between Spain and Portugal speek [sic] of a boundry [sic] stone in the KRS location."
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Harold Edwards
3/11/2019 11:40:58 am
Mr. Smith is wrong about Knirk. Dr. Knirk also had extensive correspondence with the late Dr. Richard Nielsen. Dick and I were personal friends even though we held diametrically opposite views on the authenticity of the Kensington Stone.
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William Smith
3/11/2019 02:35:11 pm
Harold - I also was a good friend of Dick Neilson and I am well aware of some of his disputes between Wolter and himself. Especially the dotted R vs a natural porosity distortion in the stone. Dick shared with me some of the 3D scan he did not release to the museum when H Williams. Dick and other past researchers called the mechanical wear line a ground line. Dick did not have a scan of the wear line because of the placement of the standards used on the stone during the process were not located below the wear line. I am sure you have read Dicks opinion as well as other researchers about the existence of the wear line. Of course folks will find other reasons for this line, like book page fold, shipping strap. After Wolter screwed up the surface by making molds from the stone with no mold release made any additional naked eye hard to find the ground line. I like you also had disagreements with Dick and Williams. Their translation of the 8 runic letters on the Heavener Oklahoma stone was (GNOMESVALLY). The actual translation is (GNOMONDIAL). The words used to identify a mid-day sun dial in 1362. (A gnomon is the hand in a sun dial).
Joe Scales
3/11/2019 04:51:23 pm
"I find this site is full of folks that like to shoot the messenger rather than read the message."
Whiskey Dick
3/11/2019 10:40:30 am
Well pardners one thing is clear from all this. That rune stone must have some kind of weird occult power to drive people bat shit crazy. A body need look no further than this blog for the proof is in the puddin' as they say. They even named a football team the Vikings because of this stone and they ain't about to let any of you varmits go around changin' peoples minds about them Vikings coming to Minnesota in the distant past.....in the days when the giants and nephilim had already passed before the Phoenicians and Hebrews ruled the land teaching the natives everything of value they ever knew. I'm going to mosey down to the saloon for a sasparilla with Ms. Josie.
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Paul
3/11/2019 01:16:47 pm
William Smith, I concur that you are bat shit crazy. There is no debating with folks as yourself since you all live in your own special place.
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Roxana
3/14/2019 04:33:44 pm
the fact that the KRS was discovered by Scandinavian immigrants with a knowledge of runic writing alone is enough to cast considerable doubt on its authenticity. Then there's the fact that the Viking age ended three hundred years before the date on the stone. And finally I am expected to believe somebody took the time to engrave a long account of his expedition's troubles on a large piece of stone as a message to who? Who the heck does that?
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William Smith
3/14/2019 06:00:50 pm
Roxana - The KRS has been tagged as Viking is wrong as you say at least 350 years after the Viking age ended. Yes somebody did take the time to engrave a long account of their expedition on a 200 lb stone. They even squared the stone to allow three additional lines on the left side. They did not carve on the bottom 1/3 of the stone except the clear tool marks to make it concave at the very bottom because they wanted it to stand upright on the hill side to advise future expeditions of the land accusation it was intended. NOTE: Early grave stones or many Scandinavian rune stones were supported by the ground alone by placing a portion of the stone below the surface. The carver did not know who was going to read his message, especially the many voices on this site that have no proof the KRS is modern. They must blame Olof and his six witnesses for the big hoax.
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Harold Edwards
3/14/2019 06:16:21 pm
Runes were used in rural areas of Sweden well into the 20th Century. The Kensington Stone inscription is more consistent with these than 14th Century usage in Greenland or Norway. There are hundreds of examples from Greenland and Norway from the 14th Century. A vast trove of them were found in Bergen, Norway. Here are some:
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Jim
3/14/2019 06:57:40 pm
Google translate does a fair job of translating.
William Smith
3/14/2019 06:58:01 pm
Harold - Thanks for the link and the photos show a hooked x on a board. Now all that needs to be done is prove Olof was doing his same dirty work in Maine on the Spirit pond stones and in Rhode Island on the Naragansant Bay stone. Is it posable that after Olof found the stone and a few years later Holland promoted it in the Kensington area and some of the folks wrote home to show their relatives what has been found and a few scratched these on boards in a building? Has the wood been dated? It sure looks good to the naked eye. Looks like knotty pine that went through a planner.
Harold Edwards
3/14/2019 07:34:46 pm
Wood planers were known in the Middle Ages and before. Here are some from 18th Century Williamsburg:
Kent
3/14/2019 08:09:35 pm
I understand your frustration with William Smith but since finding something is not even a crime jailtime seems a little harsh.
Jim
3/14/2019 08:28:00 pm
William:
Harold Edwards
3/14/2019 08:28:48 pm
If the finder actually made it and then lied about it, it then may be a crime. Here are elements of criminal fraud:
Kent
3/14/2019 09:20:58 pm
If they made it then they didn't find it. But if they found it 1,2,3,4, and 5 go by the wayside.
Harold Edwards
3/14/2019 10:22:42 pm
If you find a dead body, the police start asking questions. I think if you find a runestone or other artifact, the police should start asking questions. I know I am raising the bar here. We are being overwhelmed with bullshit, and something needs to change.
Kent
3/14/2019 11:02:40 pm
Harold, you're all over the map here. You want the police to investigate a non-crime, the finding of a runestone (even the carving of a runestone is not a criime) yet you yourself wrote
Harold Edwards
3/14/2019 11:28:23 pm
I do not want the police to investigate a non-crime. I want the legislature to make it a crime. There is a spectrum of behaviors people engage in: 1. A person mistakenly believes in something that is false. 2. A person knowingly believes in something that is false. 3. A person knowingly manufactures evidence to prove something that he knows is false. Number 3 is a crime in certain circumstances. I think this concept should be extended to the manufacture of archaeological fakes. I am asking people to think about the pros and cons of enacting such a law. Think about a person who screams "fire" in a crowed theater. The people panic and then trample others in their efforts to flee the building. In one case the perpetrator is a practical joker. He merely wants to see how the people react and then laugh at the fools who believe him. In another, he is malicious and actually wants the people to harm themselves. Should these perpetrators be treated differently by the law? In the case of archaeological fakes they are.
Kent
3/14/2019 11:49:10 pm
You want to make carving a runestone illegal? That's a hyoooooge First Amendment problem. You still sound like you want to make the simple finding of a runestone a crime when finding a dead body is not. Sorry, I can't go along with that either.
Harold Edwards
3/15/2019 01:05:27 am
Thanks for the correction. I will put aside the notion of self-delusion and concede the point: People may not knowingly believe in things that are false, but they do certainly pretend that things are true when they know them to be false.
Kent
3/15/2019 01:27:45 am
So many unforeseen consequences. A terrible idea.
Harold Edwards
3/15/2019 01:48:55 am
Nobody should go to jail on this information if B is acting in good faith. A is supposedly a party unknown. In most actual fraud cases A is the finder or is found to conspire with B who of course then is not acting in good faith. The practical problem is that in most cases we know who the fraudster is, but there are no legal consequences unless the object is of great value and the victim complains. The fraudster can lie right and left without any consequences. He is under no duty to tell the truth. Compel him to tell the truth or face legal jeopardy.
Kent
3/15/2019 08:04:18 am
Sorry, I can't join you in that. Making writing illegal, compelling speech...
Jim
3/15/2019 09:53:19 am
Kent
Kent
3/15/2019 10:20:16 am
Kent
Joe Scales
3/15/2019 11:17:43 am
"Now all that needs to be done is prove Olof was doing his same dirty work in Maine on the Spirit pond stones and in Rhode Island on the Naragansant Bay stone."
Jim
3/15/2019 11:21:19 am
"play silly buggers
Harold Edwards
3/15/2019 11:25:49 am
Thanks for the discussion. I am thinking out loud on these issues, no doubt in my frustration with liars. Free speech is not absolute.
Accumulated Wisdom
3/15/2019 12:22:41 pm
Whomever is responsible for the NT, NRS, SPRS, and KRS used knowledge of Ptolemy for their placements. Very complex and time consuming for a hoax.
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William Smith
3/15/2019 12:54:46 pm
Accumulated Wisdom - I like your statement as to facts that end up in the end. I am not sure about knowledge of Ptolemy for placement of the NT, NRS, SPRS and KRS, however I am sure the lodestone compass was used in 2 of the 4. I am also sure a Russian TV station with over 1,000,000 viewers will present some of the facts in April. Unlike the USA History Chanel full of unproven speculation to support a Templar bull shit movement the Russians are using proper certified Archaeologist and other academics to make their presentation. I do not feel they have any University of Minn. Geoligest who act as if they had a law degree in their group. Their work will begin with the Mystery Stone of New Hampshire. It will show how it was used as a lodestone in a compass to measure magnetic declination for longitude, It will explain the function of each of the symbols carved on the stone, it will show how the white crystals in the dark granite stone left a signature where the fault line was located that created the stone before it was produced into its function. It will also help prove at least two of the claimed fakes in your group are 550 years old.
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Harold Edwards
3/15/2019 01:19:08 pm
Here is a review of pH and rainwater:
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William Smith
3/15/2019 01:46:04 pm
Harold - Your laboratory ph and exposure may be good in a lab, however the mechanical evidence states the KRS stood upright for 300 years before the centerline of the stone moved at the top over 1/2 the stone thickness allowing the KRS to start its slow tilting until the face hit the ground. This indicates the KRS face located to the east was shielded somewhat from the rain which comes from the west in Kensington. It also would place the face of the KRS on the ground laying on surface soil that had a slower effect than soil not exposed to rain. It could be the only time your calcite was effected was when the KRS was a barn doorstep. Until you can reproduce the handling of the stone and its placement in different environments over time your calcite information is totally unproven.
Jim
3/15/2019 03:08:34 pm
" from the rain which comes from the west in Kensington."
Harold Edwards
3/15/2019 03:26:12 pm
I do not know where you live, but the cemeteries in most of the cities of the United States have marble tombstones. A walk through any cemetery older than 100 years will quickly demonstrate the weathering of calcite:
William Smith
3/15/2019 05:03:01 pm
Harold and Jim - Jim - The dominant wind in Kensington Minn. is (http://www.usairnet.com/weather/maps/current/minnesota/wind-direction/).
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Harold Edwards
3/15/2019 06:08:55 pm
What town or city in Missouri is Elliot Cemetery? There are several cemeteries with that name. It will take me about 15 minutes to get a soil analysis to check your claim that the soil is the same as in Kensington.
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Jim
3/15/2019 06:51:17 pm
How about this Harold, from your earlier link.
Harold Edwards
3/15/2019 10:52:03 pm
According to William Smith's book advertised on Amazon, he has a mechanical engineering degree from Perdue University and graduated in 1966.
Jim
3/15/2019 06:24:38 pm
Excellent William, you cited a source,,,first time?
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Harold Edwards
3/15/2019 06:40:55 pm
Others have called your "mechanical wear line" a "ground line." Here is a discussion on its nonexistence:
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William Smith
3/15/2019 09:09:56 pm
Harold - I did not realize you were basing your facts on 2008 data. For your information I worked with Dick Neilson and have copies of all his papers and together after I confirmed the mechanical wear line existed and it reached a depth of .022 in. On the right side of the stone you can see the wear line gets wider at the back of the stone. If you understood math you could measure the angle of this taper and compare it to the angle of tilt needed to allow the stone to become top heavy on the down hill side and fall on its face. After Dick was aware that the confirmed measurement was physical evidence that proved Wolter theory wrong in that he stated the carver buried the stone after carving. The measurements you youse to indicate their is no wear line do not cover the area in question as I told you before the laser scan is only good between the zero pads placed on the stone. Their was never any zero pads placed below the wear line in your out of date references. Scott Wolter has stated three times to me their is no wear line. He is in the same boat you are because he did not show any gaging process to show how he measured it. He only stated he has viewed the stone under microscope to support his claim of no line. This also supports his theory that the carver buried the stone after it was cut. What disturbs me is you admit that you were involved with Wolter when he made mold castings of the KRS without using mold release to protect the surface of the stone. If I recall the experts in Europe refused to study the stone due to the surface condition. If you go to Olof cemetery and measure the wear line on his tomb stone (actually their is two) one on the tomb stone where it sits on the base and one at the ground level where it has rocked in the frozen ground for about 60 years now. The ground line is .003 in.
Jim
3/15/2019 09:30:58 pm
William:
William Smith
3/15/2019 09:52:46 pm
Jim - Their is a box to the left in the link which will change the time over the last 24 hours. This link will explain why the KRS site near the 45 degrees has a dominate west to east wind. All areas between the 30 degree north and 60 degree north have a dominate west to east wind. https://www.weather.gov/source/zhu/ZHU_Training_Page/winds/Wx_Terms/Flight_Environment.htm
Kent
3/15/2019 10:02:49 pm
Someone who writes on a rock is engaged in neither commerce nor science.
Kent
3/15/2019 10:11:14 pm
William,
Jim
3/15/2019 11:11:56 pm
William:
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William Smith
3/15/2019 11:35:37 pm
Kent - I will attempt to answer your question without showing the photos of the process. The technology to measure the 1/300 "wear line is a dial indicator that reads .0001 in. It has a I/8 inch diameter plunger with a rounded head. The gage is mounted to a foot plate that is 1/2 in. wide and 1 in long. The plunger tip penetrates the foot plate. The gage assembly is placed on a flat surface with the flat foot and plunger pressed against the surface to allow the dial to be set to zero.
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Harold Edwards
3/16/2019 12:19:56 am
What are "carbon 3 motor" dates? I didn't have any of those dates when I was in high school. Sorry, I can no longer keep a straight face. Let's see now. , , You have changed the date of the KRS from 1362 as presented in its inscription to 1462. It's magic! And the Newport Tower. It was constructed in the 1600's! There is historical and archaeological proof of that. The mortar has been dated to the 1600's using Carbon-14 dating. I am waiting for Conan the Barbarian to show us the real truth. I know it is late Friday night, and you have sucking on too many Jack Daniel's, but give us a break. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Good night, William.
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/16/2019 05:06:02 am
Harold Edwards,
Kent
3/16/2019 01:20:35 am
William,
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William Smith
3/16/2019 09:56:48 am
Kent - When we were making a 3D computer program for the museum the KRS was removed from its table and placed on an indexing table. Mr Dick Neilson ask me to look at the ground line to see if it had any discolor like photos before molding replicas were made in Scott Wolter lab. The first flat edge was a clear plastic protractor, however this did not work for two reasons. 1- the flat was about 6 inches long and the clear plastic did not allow clear vision of light under the edge. Matt Smith a coworker and owner of the 3D photo business indicated a credit card would likely work better than the protractor. The short straight edge of the credit card was about 3 times the width of the wear line band and allowed light from a flash light to show the wear line as the card was moved from one side of the stone to the other. The only accurate measuring tool we had to measure the light shown between the stone face and the credit card edge was a hand held OD micrometer that measures to a .0001 in. scale. This tool would only measure diameters and in order to get a measurement we placed a round tampered toothpick between the stone and the flat edge of the card allowing the toothpick to be inserted to a point where the tooth pick made contact with the card and stone. This point of contact on the toothpick was measured with the micrometer to establish the diameter of the toothpick at that point which is also the distance between the card and stone. This process is fine, however it has variables that must be controlled (1- card flatness, 2- toothpick wear and 3 - using a OD micrometer to measure the tapper point on a toothpick.) These variables can be eliminated by using a standard depth micrometer with a scale of 1/1000 or using a dial indicator depth micrometer with a round plunger.
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William Smith
3/16/2019 10:21:44 am
Harold - Your credibility is judged by the name calling and old resources you state are factual. You refer to the 2 3D scanning process made that did not cover the area of the wear line on the KRS.
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Kent
3/16/2019 10:46:25 am
William,
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Joe Scales
3/16/2019 10:55:28 am
Yeah, this is too painful. Seeing William get his ass handed to him over and over again, yet he still goes on with the same nonsense. He's simply too stupid to realize it. Hence a whole lotta wasted bandwidth here.
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Harold Edwards
3/16/2019 02:29:51 pm
What evidence do you have that I was ever involved in any making of any casts of the KRS in 2003? As best I know that was done before the artifact was delivered to the American Petrographic Service's lab. I have no personal knowledge about how, when, why, or what Mr. Wolter told the Runestone Museum Foundation. Here is a copy of Dr. Weiblen's 2008 report to the Runestone Museum Foundation on what happened:
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William Smith
3/16/2019 03:27:53 pm
Harold - Your statement on 3/15/2019 (I personally inspected the KRS twice in 2003 when it was sent to Scott Wolter's lab in St. Paul, Minnesota. At that time I was employed as a geologist by his company, American Petrographic Services. Also at that time I examined his reports and his thin section under a petrographic microscope. I told him then, as I tell you now, the KRS is a fake. Obviously he did not then, and you do not now, believe me. I still have copies of his reports from 2000 and 2003.)
Harold Edwards
3/16/2019 04:21:46 pm
How would any film change my opinion? I had and have access to color photos of the KRS prior to the staining.
Harold Edwards
3/16/2019 04:36:27 pm
Let me point out to the others that the front surface of the KRS has a fibrous undulating appearance:
Jim
3/16/2019 05:48:17 pm
"What the hell did Mr. Smith measure in 2010?"
Doc Rock
3/16/2019 03:20:07 pm
The claim that the Kensington Stone stood for 300+ years after it was erected sounds fishy. As its narrative seems to indicate there was a violent confrontation with Native Americans at the time. That area was historically the stomping grounds of folks like the Sioux and Chippewa. I think the French were poking around that area by the late 17th century.
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William Smith
3/16/2019 03:52:19 pm
DOC ROCK - I agree with your statement that it does seem odd a stone made to stand on a hill could do this for enough time to establish a wear line that indicates it would take 300 years to form. You would think a deer on Bison would rub against it.
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Billy Smithereens
3/16/2019 04:01:21 pm
" I only say this because when setting wooden fence post it was common to tilt the top into the wind so it would aid in the life of the standing fence. "
Accumulated Wisdom
3/16/2019 04:59:16 pm
I am surprised LaVerendrye party hasn't been accused of urinating on the stone before toppling it over.
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Doc Rock
3/16/2019 05:23:28 pm
If the stone had actually been put up in 1362 I suspect that the Lakota or some such group would have beat La Verendryre to the punch by about 350 years. If you have just kicked the enemy's ass then I doubt you are inclined to let them leave a standing monument on your own home turf. More likely you piss on it, hack on it quite a bit, and then knock it over (although not necessarily in that order) about two minutes after they are out of sight.
William Smith
3/17/2019 07:49:54 am
Harold - For a person that states the KRS is a fake because of your study of the calcite as an expert on the KRS is based on your lunch hour photos is amazing.
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Jim
3/17/2019 10:29:23 am
William:
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Joe Scales
3/17/2019 11:38:00 am
And here it was Jim that I thought William was trying his hand at comedy. I mean... Scott Wolter's "research"??? Scott Wolter lies. Scott Wolter willfully takes source material out of context. Scott Wolter falsifies data. That's his "research", and if you believe him... ya gotta be pretty stupid. Really, really stupid. His very language is non sequitur.
Jim
3/17/2019 01:23:35 pm
Scotty sends forth his imbecilic sycophants to argue his case knowing full well they well they will be completely embarrassed.
Harold Edwards
3/17/2019 10:47:32 am
The KRS was placed on a table with casters. It was photographed with the face up, it was flipped over, and it was then photographed with the back up. I could walk around it and photograph all the sides. I could touch the artifact and use a plastic ruler to make measurements.
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Jim
3/17/2019 11:36:44 am
"The first question ask would be (Was their glass between your camera and the stone when you took your photos?)"
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Harold Edwards
3/17/2019 01:23:33 pm
Here are three papers in English on the the language and runes used in the KRS. They are at different times by academic experts in the language and runes. All declare that the text is a fake.
Harold Edwards
3/17/2019 12:25:28 pm
In late 1898 Olof Ohman visited John Hedberg at Hedberg's office in Kensington. Hedberg was the Chaiirman of the Kensington Village Council, effectively the mayor of Kensington. He was a real estate agent, a money lender and sold hardware and lumber. His office was in the hardware story just north of the Soo Line railroad tracks that cut through the town. Hedberg was also an agent for the Swedish language newspaper, the Svenska Amerikanska Posten, published in Minneapolis. He was a friend of the newspaper's editor Swan Turnblad. Mr. Ohman made much of his living from his construction business, building houses, shops, barns, etc. around the area. He had been trained as a carpenter in Sweden before he immigrated to the U.S. He invested in real estate and he was a subscriber to the Svenska Amerikanska Posten. Therefore there would be several good reasons for him to visit Hedberg.
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Harold Edwards
3/17/2019 01:46:57 pm
Let me mention the Gran tapes: Walter Gran a boyhood friend of Ohman's sons was taped in 1967 by his nephew. His sister Josephine was present. Gran gave an account that his father had helped carve the Kensington Stone. His sister who was 18 years old in 1898. She corroborated Walter's account. Here is a partial transcript:
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William Smith
3/17/2019 03:31:09 pm
Harold - Thanks for the link to the tapes. The tapes are 60 years after the carving and consist of conversation about 27 years after. Of the material used to make statements about something remembered years in the past is way above my ability, however a few points of interest. Any son of a carpenter would turn the grinding wheel to keep wood chisels sharp. A son of a stone cutter would sharpen a pointed rod to make a mark in stone.
Jim
3/17/2019 03:49:36 pm
"A son of a stone cutter would sharpen a pointed rod to make a mark in stone."
Kent
3/17/2019 04:29:46 pm
"The tapes are 60 years after the carving"
Jim
3/17/2019 05:30:13 pm
Birgitta Wallace or Alice Kehoe ? Maybe both,lol.
Kent
3/17/2019 06:24:16 pm
Wallace too. It reflects well on her.
Kent
3/17/2019 07:47:22 pm
"Scott Wolter November 25, 2018 at 6:58 AM
Doc Rock
3/19/2019 01:25:25 pm
Kent,
William Smith
3/17/2019 02:35:32 pm
In that you all seem to post your support for Harold and his expert research showing the KRS is fake and Scott Wolter or anyone else has no information or equal knowledge of the subject. I will leave you with this summary which may show my position on the subject.
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Joe Scales
3/18/2019 03:24:25 pm
William, you are simply too stupid to engage in rational discourse. And now you are defending your nonsense with even more nonsense. Looney Toon Logic.
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Jim
3/18/2019 05:02:24 pm
I don't know how a person can sanely twist his arguments around the way William does.
William Smith
3/17/2019 06:23:37 pm
Jim, Kent and All - A flat chisel has two points, each with a 90 degree angle which would produce a dot in stone with 90 degree angle (45 on each side) The depth of the hole could not exceed the diameter which is not the case on the KRS. In addition the hammer force on the flat chisel would be at a 45 degree angle, thus making the hole very hard to make round like the 3D scanning has shown.
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Jim
3/17/2019 07:52:54 pm
" however I do know Alice Kehoe and her father."
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William Smith
3/17/2019 08:35:10 pm
Jim - I met Alice in 2008 when she gave a talk at the Kensington farm house barn at a conference organized by Steve Hilgren. I was told the older fellow with her was her father. It may have been her boyfriend, All I can remember he had white hair just like Alice. Most of their talk was in reference to the Newport Tower and their research of the site which both were involved.
PoodleShooter
3/17/2019 09:20:02 pm
I met Tony Bennett at one of his gallery showings but I don't go around saying I "know" him. Saying you know her father is icing on the funny cake.
Kent
3/17/2019 09:47:27 pm
"Olof and his carpenter helper who had a son did not say he was cranking a sharpening stone to grind stone cutting tools. He stated they were chisel's."
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Jim
3/17/2019 11:28:34 pm
Harold said:
Jim
3/17/2019 11:40:54 pm
Collaborated by Eric Wahlgren's account:
Roxana
3/18/2019 06:56:40 pm
Who takes the time to write a long account of a raid that killed nearly half their company while the enemy is still lurking out there and might strike again at any time? Who was expected to find and read the stone? NOBODY DOES THIS!
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Harold Edwards
3/18/2019 07:38:00 pm
Here is what the inscription states: "We had a camp by 2 shelters one day's journey north from this stone. We was fishing one day. After we came home we found 10 men red from blood and death." It mentions nothing about any native people. Probably they got into a brawl over whose mother cooked the best lutefisk.
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William Smith
3/18/2019 07:54:51 pm
Two points of interest need to be addressed about who were the 10 dead men.
Joe Scales
3/18/2019 08:09:43 pm
Two more points of interest:
Jim
3/18/2019 08:36:21 pm
William Smith:
Harold Edwards
3/18/2019 09:22:14 pm
Mr. Smith, I have some questions about your 2010 data from the Elliott Cemetery in Missouri. Here is what I found on line:
William Smith
3/18/2019 11:02:58 pm
Harold - I will address your questions on the 2010 tomb stone study theist I can.
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Harold Edwards
3/18/2019 11:40:08 pm
Thank you. I understand you took 60 measurements on 12 tombstones, 5 on each tombstone, and listed the average value of the 5 measurements for each tombstone to get the data in your chart. Let me rearrange your data in decreasing age along with the rock type you gave me:
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Kentr
3/19/2019 12:10:46 am
William, why do you refuse to put space between paragraphs? This approach makes your stuff unreadable.
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Kent
3/19/2019 01:59:00 am
2nd attempt:
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Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 10:15:39 am
Magnetic declination in North America has moved to the WEST over the past few centuries:
Joe Scales
3/19/2019 10:18:57 am
"... as well as the1494 treaty between Spain and Portugal."
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William Smith
3/19/2019 11:39:08 am
Joe - The information in the 1494 treaty is in chapter 3, You must understand magnetic declination to follow and trace and locate the KRS as the stone marker 370 leagues wes on a pole line from the tower on the east coast. I will be on the largest Russian TV station next month addressing their 100 million audience to explain the Mystery Stone of New Hampshire and how it is connected to the KRS. This is their version of the History Chanel. I have heard your shit for years and by your own use of profanity with (Jesus Christ) is enough for me to read your colors. I will not respond to a person that uses gods name in vain. GOODBY
Joe Scales
3/19/2019 03:03:20 pm
Uh... William, you blithering idiot... if you spent any time at all here on this site, you'd have realized that being on television does not make you right. In fact, it is those who appear on television, pose as historians and spout pure nonsense that garners quite a bit of ire 'round these parts. As you've already gotten the pure nonsense part down, as well as attracting quite a bit of ire, going on television seems only natural for you at this point. Congratulations. You are set to become a poisoner of the well of knowledge. Jesus hates that, by the way. Well-poisoner.
Jim
3/19/2019 10:10:59 am
Harold,
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Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 10:26:52 am
Here is a marble tombstone for Simon Benson who died in 1885 at the Solem Lutheran Cemetery in Kensington. Olof Ohman is buried in this cemetery. However his tombstone is of granite.
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William Smith
3/19/2019 11:08:46 am
Harold - I am familiar with the cemetery you are addressing. I and a local in your area got permission to use the new dial indicator tool to measure tomb stones in the area. Olof Ohmans stone sits on a base stone also made of granite. The wear line is at ground level in this case on the base stone. It measured .003 in. when I measured it in 2010. Close to 50 years after his death. Other stones measured in this cemetery were not recorded because the environment is not comparable to the KRS even though you could establish a standard for wear in a flat area where no trees and most of the stones are on a base stone. Did you measure or observe the wear line on any with a red card? Older cemetery which are in forest areas would eliminate weed eaters and provide a better simulation to the subject stone being studied.
Jim
3/19/2019 11:27:57 am
William, in all your time examining tombstones in graveyards did you not notice the degradation of the lettering on the stones ?
Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 11:35:14 am
William, I would really like to focus on your investigations at the Elliott Cemetery so I can understand your method.
William Smith
3/19/2019 11:27:53 am
Jim - I find your responses are directed more at the messenger than at the message. It is a shame you do not have any facts that support the KRS is fake. As for weathering and wear line, you need to start in class 101 using a fence post to explain the three areas of weathering and the one of wear. All wood above the ground is weathering, all wood below the ground is weathering in a different environment than that above ground, if below the ground the post can be detected in some cases for hundreds of years as Jan Barstad proved at the Newport Tower in 2008. The wood at the location where the ground meets the air is where the post gets weathering and additional wear due to freezing and other elements not exposed in the other areas. It is also where the fence post of wood first breaks.
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Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 11:45:25 am
Today the carbon dioxide level in air is about 400 parts per million. From 1362 to 1898, the average carbon dioxide level in air was 281 parts per million. We know that from ice core data from Antarctica and Greenland. At 281 parts per million the average pH of rainwater is 5.625 in the Kensington area. Calcite dissolves at a rate of 15 mm per 1000 years. The calcite layer on the Kensington stone is about 3 mm thick with an inscription of less than 2 mm deep. There is 536 years from 1362 to 1898. Marble tombstones in the Kensington area weather at a rate of about 6 mm per thousand years. This difference is because the surface with the inscription is vertical and thus does not get all of the precipitation.
Jim
3/19/2019 11:59:40 am
William:
William Smith
3/19/2019 12:26:02 pm
Jim - Post holes have been found to date to the time of Stonehenge. The location of the two holes found by qualified archaeologist were located 4 EL (12 feet and 5 inches) from two of the 8 columns in the tower. All other measurements in the tower confirmed by past engineers indicate the Dutch and Portuguese El of 1 yard = 37.25 inches. She also found a charcoal pit at the north east outside the tower which indicates a form of central heating was in place like the Basques fisherman used in Europe. Also in one of these holes was found a highly magnetic round stone that showed surface work by man. This stone will not make sense to you because you do not understand the lodestone compass. Your statement that Jan is full of bull shit and buried all of her reports because she did not pay her helpers is your false opinion and is what makes you in the same category as others on this site that have an alligator mouth and a humming bird ass. Jan's detail report is on the web in public view and I was there when she did the first dig at the tower. Funny they had her back for the second dig.
Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 12:44:25 pm
The mortar in the Old Mill at Newport, Rhode Island, a.k.a. the Newport Tower has been dated to the late 1600's using carbon-14 dating methods:
Jim
3/19/2019 12:48:33 pm
More BS
Jim
3/19/2019 01:43:23 pm
Wasn't Jan Barstad a no-show at her own dig in 2008 ?
Jim
3/19/2019 03:08:03 pm
Yet more BS:
Joe Scales
3/19/2019 03:08:51 pm
"... and is what makes you in the same category as others on this site that have an alligator mouth and a humming bird ass."
William Smith
3/19/2019 12:52:34 pm
Harold - I will attempt to answer your questions in the last two post even though some answers may have been given before.
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Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 01:52:41 pm
1. Even today there is virtually no acid rain in the Kensington area. The pH is about 5.4. Carbon dioxide levels from 1362 to about 1800 are about 280 ppm. From 1800 on they begin to rise. Here is a paper that describes some of the concepts:
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Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 02:01:48 pm
One other point. If a stone were left on the surface of a hill near the top, it would flow downhill a few centimeters a year. This process is called mass wasting. It is a well known phenomenon. Winchell made the observation in 1910 that glacial boulders in the area were found either on the top of a hill or at the bottom. The KRS was found 3/4 of the way from the bottom. It probably could not have been in that place for 536 years. The KRS is a fake.
Doc Rock
3/19/2019 02:08:09 pm
Harold,
Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 02:34:45 pm
I have never met Dr. Kehoe. You have to ask her. Maybe you can run into her at a WFA meeting--a Wolters Fans Anonymous meeting.
Doc Rock
3/19/2019 02:52:44 pm
OK, but thought it was worth a shot since you seem to have a wide range of knowledge about the whole affair and spend a lot of time sharing it.
Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 02:58:10 pm
WFA is a joke. Sorry, the devil made me do it.
Doc Rock
3/19/2019 03:04:48 pm
I was pretty sure that it was a joke. But in a world where a disturbing number of people see Wolter as an inspirational persecuted figure, it's just hard to tell any more.
William Smith
3/19/2019 04:12:38 pm
Harold - Thanks for your answers. I could ask additional questions or challenge your responses, however I will not. I must say I have learned a lot on this pro and con talk about the KRS, however most of it was on how people that sit on their ass and talk like they were in a bar looking for a fight. It is obvious they are not qualified to judge actual work supported by approved processes. I respect your opinion and thank you for it. On the other hand The KRS is not a fake. I will always share info with you as I find it via private email. [email protected]
Joe Scales
3/19/2019 09:00:20 pm
"I must say I have learned a lot..."
William Smith
3/19/2019 01:25:14 pm
Harold - C14 dates of mortar at the Newport tower are a lot newer than your 2003 reference. I will not go into the Tower discussion because of some information I will be sharing with the Newport Historical Society this spring. Are you aware that it is reported that the lime film for making the tower mortar has been found in the construction foundation of one of the basements in a home closer to the ocean? I think it was Gunnar Thompson who made the first report of this, however I am sure Jim Egan of the Newport museum can correct me if needed?
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Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 02:10:42 pm
That gets you nothing. This mill has been well studied and found to date from the late 1600's: "The Archaeology of the Old Stone Mill in Newport, Rhode Island" by William S. Godfrey, Jr.
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William Smith
3/19/2019 02:42:42 pm
Harold - I will try to answer your questions in an earlier post.
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Joe Scales
3/19/2019 03:17:12 pm
Oh great. More nonsense from William, the imbecile. To be continued...
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William Smith
3/19/2019 03:38:25 pm
Harold - As I stated earlier that I would see if their is an explanation for the missing 6 names in the Elliott Cemetery. The link you gave showed a list presented to the Gann H.S. by Marie Dryden. Their is no date on this list, however the list was what was on file with the county register in the mid 1990s. In 2008 all the names except JS was confirmed by the local lady who had traced all names found on stones in the Cemetery. We found the JS stone in the ground in a family plot dating 1870 time of his death and provided it to her.
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Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 04:03:30 pm
Thanks for responding. I thought I answered your questions. Refresh this webpage and they should show up just under your questions. If I left something out, please let me know. I will try to answer them.
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William Smith
3/19/2019 07:07:02 pm
Harold - Your observation of page 38 is correct. The importance of the ground line on the left side is it had to be made after the stone was cut.
Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 07:41:35 pm
Thanks for confirming this. Let me draw your attention to Winchell's 1910 report. Here is a downloadable copy:
Joe Scales
3/19/2019 09:13:10 pm
William has a penchant for seeing things that don't exist. Whether on stones or in treaties.
William Smith
3/19/2019 08:47:52 pm
Harold - Winchell's 1910 report has a lot of information which you can use. I would ask him few questions. Did Ohman have a bush hammer? Would it not be easier to bush hammer the right side of the stone or just add more lines to the face? Why is their punch marks about 1/4 in. deep and 1/4 in. spread on all surfaces around the left side? Is this a common practice to split stone to make one side flat? Why would the left side be completely bush hammered to the lower section of the stone where no runes exist? Why does the 3 lines on the left side stop at the same as the face lines? Is this just to make the stone to bury under the ground or is it because only 1/3 of the stone was to be in the ground to hold the 2/3 rd's of the stone upright so the runes can be read? Why would I spend $500 dollars to remeasure something I have already measured? I have suggested to others to ask Chris Dunn go and gage the wear line if you want a tooling expert to do so. He is the person who measured the flatness in the Great pyramids and reported the flatness of the incline would be hard pressed to replicate today.
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Joe Scales
3/19/2019 09:10:20 pm
"Did Ohman have a bush hammer?"
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Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 09:45:30 pm
Artifacts by definition are man-made objects. In this case a human or humans selected a raw material, stone, and fashioned it into a tabular shape and carved an inscription on two sides. Therefore every feature on this object must be viewed asking the question: Is it natural or man-made?
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Jim
3/19/2019 10:22:07 pm
My best guess for the origin of the stone would be surplus from sidewalk construction or replacing flagstones with cement in a nearby town.
Jim
3/19/2019 09:49:00 pm
OMG !!!! hahahaha,,,,Chris Dunn,,,,hahahahaha,,
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Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 10:00:53 pm
You should read Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. See the frontispiece:
Jim
3/19/2019 10:14:58 pm
Still and all, I would have Mark twain measure the KRS rather than Chris Dunn ! Much more credibility.
Harold Edwards
3/19/2019 10:42:01 pm
On August 25, 1898 the Alexandria Post News reporting on Kensington noted: “They are now putting in new sidewalks here and it is a great improvement to the town. Now you can take a walk with your best girl without stumbling or falling between the cracks.” What the sidewalks were made of is unknown, but they probably replaced the wooden sidewalks that many towns used.
Kent
3/20/2019 03:36:13 am
"[Chris Dunn] is the person who measured the flatness in the Great pyramids and reported the flatness of the incline would be hard pressed to replicate today."
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William Smith
3/19/2019 09:29:25 pm
Harold - Thanks for the photos of the stones in the Kensington area. From the photos my input as to a wear line would be as follows.
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Joe Scales
3/20/2019 10:24:23 am
Wear line, eh William? We're back to that now? You know you really ought to pay attention to Harold. I mean, considering how many obvious strikes go against the notion of authenticity for the KRS, very few knowledgeable folks would even take the time to do more in depth research exposing the hoax for what it was. Enter Harold. Someone who was there when Wolter began his bungling campaign for authenticity and saw first hand the discrepancies and poor methodology in its examination. He also did the research. Searched the archives and cited notable scientific articles pertinent to any discussion in regard to the flaws and mistakes made by its creator(s). He's spent hours now trying to educate you William. Hours wasted in my view; at least in your regard. But for the rest of us, Harold's efforts have not been wasted. His evidence and arguments presented are the most damning ever when taken as a whole. And you know what William? He hasn't even touched upon the language of the runes themselves, which have long been a red flag for every qualified linguist familiar with the advanced study of such runes.
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Harold Edwards
3/20/2019 11:54:18 am
I cannot emphasize this fact too much: Vetting archaeological artifacts like the Kensington Stone is a very difficult problem. The study of lithic artifacts is not the subject of geology. It is the subject of archaeology. Frequently geologists screw it up. Objects like the Kensington Stone have no reliable provenance other than the claims of the finder. These artifacts are one-of-a-kind objects that have no association with any archaeological setting. Usually when found the finder takes no notes, drawings, or photographs, certainly nothing of any scientific precision. Often the finder is a person with an agenda, often fraud of some sort. Geologists frequently make fools of themselves when working on these problems.
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William Smith
3/20/2019 03:38:19 pm
Harold - Your history of peoples opinion on the authenticity of the KRS is great. It is good to hear that Kensington got new sidewalks in late 1800,s and the flat graywack stones had to go. The story that Olof went to town to get his rocks off does make a lot of sense when you look at the quality of skills in research of your buddies on this site that help you with proving your points. What I miss is why the hell did Ohman only get 1 200 lb. sidewalk stone when his wagon would have held many more. OH did he walk and carry it home without any body seeing him. He is likely the first immigrant to carry rocks to his farm when he had all he needed to make a forgery as you claim.
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Joe Scales
3/20/2019 04:10:39 pm
William, you blithering idiot, you do know that in his scrapbook Ohman had cut out an article that predated his find in regard to a carved stone found within tree roots back in the old country.
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Kent
3/20/2019 06:27:22 pm
William,
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Joe Scales
3/20/2019 04:01:23 pm
William, you imbecile, each and every one of your arguments assumes that the KRS is authentic. You begin with that and work backwards only accepting things to keep you believing. You can't see it of course... because you're an imbecile... but it's very, very clear to those here you wish to impress.
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Jim
3/20/2019 04:42:54 pm
William Smith comment in this blog:
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Jim
3/20/2019 05:32:08 pm
Two photos from Ohman's basement foundation snowing rocks and stoneholes.
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Jim
3/20/2019 05:41:15 pm
Harold, Would you say Ohman had a drill bit specifically for drilling rock, judging from the hole in the second photo ?
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Harold Edwards
3/20/2019 06:36:01 pm
A plug drill is basically a steel rod. Usually it has a wedged tip like a chisel. If the rock is softer than steel, say limestone or marble, the tip gradually cuts through the stone. If the rock is harder than steel, say granite, the percussion of the steel against the rock shatters the mineral grains since they are brittle. If you strike a diamond with a hammer the diamond may shatter even though it is much harder than the steel in the hammer. This type of drilling was invented in the early 1600's to place gun powder in rocks for blasting. Later wedges and shims called plugs and feathers were designed to break the rock without blasting. Blasting shatters the rock and may render it useless in masonry. This method was used extensively in the United States throughout the 19th Century. Farmers in Minnesota used it to break up the glacial boulders on their land.
Harold Edwards
3/20/2019 07:36:33 pm
Here is a paper on stone holes in Minnesota by Tom Trow and published by the Minnesota Historical Society. It contains part of an interview with Emil Mattson who grew up on a farm near Olof Ohman's in Kensington. As a boy Mattson sharpened chisels for his father and Ohman. The men were drilling holes in boulders in order to blast them. A more extensive interview with Mattsom is in the Society's archives. In it, he talks about Ohman building the barn for his father's farm.
Harold Edwards
3/20/2019 07:49:56 pm
Triangular holes are a function of tip geometry and not whether the hole was hand drilled or machine drilled. Here is company, Deltagon, that advertises a bit geometry that avoids triangular holes:
Kent
3/20/2019 08:27:47 pm
"Many holes for blasting were abandoned since safe practice is to drill the holes and then do the blasting later. That in part is why they are ubiquitous in rural Minnesota and elsewhere."
Harold Edwards
3/20/2019 08:46:05 pm
What happens is drilling is either done on different days or it is done too late in the day to switch to blasting. When the crew comes back to blast the holes they overlook some of them or for some reason or other do not return to the area. Sorry for the confusion.
William Smith
3/20/2019 07:28:31 pm
Harold - Thanks for your research on rock drilling. The round holes in stones in the basement of Ohmans home are smaller and different than the triangle stone holes. Why would Ohman use different process when NO stone hole on the hill is round or shows evidence of powder explosive.
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Harold Edwards
3/20/2019 08:09:51 pm
Here is another brochure for Deltagon bits that has a better explanation of triangular holes.
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Kent
3/20/2019 08:48:02 pm
"To find declination in a given area at a given time is to use a declination calculator. Most on the web do not show 1362 or 1472, however you can predict the eastward drift over time by using the calculator in 50 year checks."
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Jim
3/20/2019 09:27:56 pm
Kent,
Harold Edwards
3/20/2019 09:57:00 pm
Mr. Smith spent the better part of two decades solving an elaborate "crossword puzzle." You are asking him to give it up with mere facts. He cannot do that and look himself in the mirror in the morning. Read this:
Him
3/20/2019 10:32:39 pm
You have certainly made one heck of a compelling+ case. I for one will be saving a link to this right above the one with all of Richard Nielsen's files.
Harold Edwards
3/20/2019 09:34:58 pm
The name Ohman means "man from the Island." The Island was the name of the farm that Olof Ohman grew up on in Sweden. His birth name was Olof Olsson, i.e., Olof the son of Olof. Most Swedes did not have surnames during the 19th Century. Mats Larsson who wrote a book about the Kensington Stone in Swedish and who researched Ohman's background in Sweden, wrote me that Olof and his father both used the name "Ohman" when they did their military service since there were many men with the name Olsson and they did not want to be confused with them. Olof Olsson came to the U.S. in 1879. We know that from steamship manifests. He left the U.S. in 1883 and returned to Sweden. He returned to the U.S. as Olof Ohman in 1886. Karin Danielsdotter, his fiance, followed him from Sweden and they were married on November 27, 1886 at Alexandria, Minnesota.
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William Smith
3/21/2019 07:34:13 am
HIM - This is only round 1, be sure and stay tuned for round 2. In my opinion it will be a knock out, however people need to get their moneys worth. It will include 3 stone carvings that support the KRS 1472 carving date. When you look at the modern day research you will see the big picture. One of the three stones is (The Ohio Rock)
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I will not post anymore
3/21/2019 08:14:23 am
WILLIAM SMITH
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Joe Scales
3/21/2019 12:05:15 pm
Yes, not only is William an imbecile, somewhat crazed and a tad bit perverted... but now he's shown he's not a man of his word. Surprise, surprise.
Poodle Shooter
3/21/2019 04:04:28 pm
The poster child for "Jesus wept."
Jim
3/21/2019 10:11:55 am
More nutbars coming out of the woodwork,,, or should I say, stonework
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Harold Edwards
3/21/2019 10:25:28 am
Here is a video of a man using a tool called a stone ax to split rock:
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/21/2019 01:30:26 pm
Harold Edwards,
Harold Edwards
3/21/2019 02:50:33 pm
There are no runes at the Old Mill:
Jim
3/21/2019 03:26:01 pm
Heck, maybe Rhode Island is Atlantis, the Greeks covered their windmills in plaster, perhaps they picked this up from the Atlantians.
Accumulated Wisdom
3/21/2019 04:38:21 pm
Harold Edwards,
Kent
3/21/2019 05:00:07 pm
Sorry Anthony, but you see runes where other people see visual noise. You're pulling a Classic Wolter™, thinking you know better than someone who can actually read the language.
Accumulated Wisdom
3/21/2019 05:17:16 pm
Kent,
Accumulated Wisdom
3/21/2019 05:20:35 pm
"you're"
Kent
3/21/2019 05:35:14 pm
Anthony, you're basically saying "I see it! You should see it too!"
Harold Edwards
3/21/2019 05:36:41 pm
ACCUMULATED WISDOM
Accumulated Wisdom
3/21/2019 06:12:25 pm
Like, I stated. This is someone else's work. It does not belong to me. When targeted examinations are done, I am hoping these people show it to the world. Especially, Dr. Williams. I will not cite sources. They are already posted to Facebook. Links to this information have been posted to this blog. If that's secret, so be it.
Kent
3/21/2019 06:23:47 pm
Stop wasting our time.
Jim
3/21/2019 06:49:10 pm
This is all Patrick Shekleton's nonsense, he's running neck to neck with William for most bizarre and ridiculous.
Accumulated Wisdom
3/21/2019 11:52:00 pm
A waste of time was effectively rereading Andy White's blog comments on this blog. If, alerting educated people of talking out their backside's is a waste of time...By all means, carry on. My professional reputation isn't on the line.
Harold Edwards
3/22/2019 12:11:31 am
Andy White posted on this blog? Where? Sorry I missed him. I wanted to say hello.
Doc Rock
3/22/2019 12:17:07 am
AW brings to mind a common theme in the discourse of the fringe. That is, any day now they are going to come up with dead bang proof for whatever it is they are pushing and all the doubters are going to be forced to admit that they are wrong and eat humble pie. But in 40+ years of following topics like bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, UFOs, Egyptians/Minoans/Phoenicians, etc. in ancient America, Templar codes on rocks in North America, tribes of 8 feet tall Indians, etc., etc., etc., it hasn't happened yet. Not in a single case.
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/22/2019 03:58:02 am
Doc Rock,
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William Smith
3/22/2019 12:39:08 am
Keep taking your cheap shots at Ohman. It has been going on for 120 years and will continue, however the information recorded does not include a wear line, magnetic declination, triangle holes. the 1494 treaty, and 3 other stones connected to the KRS. These new research finds will be added to the list in round 2, however it is unlikely round 2 will be in this arena.
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Harold Edwards
3/22/2019 12:50:21 am
http://runeberg.org/beratt/1/0009.html
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/22/2019 04:53:19 am
Harold Edwards,
Kent
3/22/2019 09:51:39 am
"Inscriptions only visible at certain times. EXACTLY as the inscriptions on the Newport Tower."
Jim
3/22/2019 10:27:08 am
" Inscriptions only visible at certain times. EXACTLY as the inscriptions on the Newport Tower."
Joe Scales
3/22/2019 10:33:33 am
Jesus Christ William, you are a pathetic, lying, stupid, stupid man. Thought you were done? Didn't you say you've had enough? Liar. Now with Anthony you two have formed a moronic tag team to spout even more nonsense. Stone holes to go along with your treaty, and the magnetic demarcation... all proving what exactly?
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Harold Edwards
3/22/2019 11:43:46 am
I think it is a mistake to insult these people. What happens is the discussion degenerates into an exchange of ad hominems. It is like mud wrestling a pig. Everyone gets soiled. Don't insult them. Just call them out when they insult others and ask them to stop.
Doc Rock
3/22/2019 12:47:02 pm
Harold,
Harold Edwards
3/22/2019 01:25:18 pm
I started my college career as a history major with an English minor. I also had a geology minor, so I later switched to it for my degrees. However I had enough hours in history to take a degree in it, but never did. Hence my interest in the subject. In 1980's as a graduate student I was managing an electron microscope research facility at the University of Minnesota. At that time I met some archaeologists and became interested in the petrography of pottery from the Laurel and Blackduck cultures in Minnesota. I was also interested in trace element fingerprinting as a method of determining the provenance of artifacts. I wrote some computer programs on this method and then applied them to the provenance of asbestos containing fire proofing and acoustical plasters. I had a consulting business as an expert witness. This is a roundabout way of showing how problem solving in one field can be extended to others. I am not an archaeologist either.
Joe Scales
3/22/2019 02:36:15 pm
"I think it is a mistake to insult these people."
Harold Edwards
3/22/2019 04:02:35 pm
I was not trying to reprimand you or anybody else. I lost it a time or two myself. The illogical argumentation and the lack of facts is taxing to say the least. I am thinking of the best strategy. There are two types of people who come to this blog, those with strong views one way or another and those who come to learn more. I try to address the latter. Also, I understand best practice for dealing with delusional people is to calmly reinforce reality. They live in their heads and have a poor ability to reality test the world. You have to do it for them and keep your fingers crossed.
Doc Rock
3/22/2019 04:31:39 pm
It never hurts to try to keep ones's cool, at least to some extent, and let the other guy go into full meltdown mode. Works quite well on folks outside of the fringe as well at times. That is, if one has a goal of trying educate the people you referenced who are here to learn. They probably aren't giving big points for credibility to those who flip out even worse than the fringe folks they are supposed to be criticizing.
William Smith
3/22/2019 11:35:10 am
Harold - I have a different view of the history of the KRS which I attempted to apply your aging of the calcite on the subject which may bridge some gap between our differences. My research supports the following environment the KRS has been exposed.
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Jim
3/22/2019 11:54:57 am
William,,,,,,Wow !
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Kent
3/23/2019 01:14:51 pm
"1.0 PH" is probably William's funniest fail ever.
Jim
3/23/2019 01:36:08 pm
He probably made this claim after eating some pink microdot.
Harold Edwards
3/22/2019 12:03:52 pm
The point cloud for the 2003 3-D scan is available from the Swedish National Heritage Board. I believe the point cloud for the 2008 scan is now with the Minnesota Historical Society. You will need to contact those organizations if you want to see them for yourself. These are large data files, and you will need get a computer program that can take measurements and generate images from the point clouds.
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/22/2019 01:02:04 pm
Harold Edwards,
Harold Edwards
3/22/2019 02:00:33 pm
There is no known complete runic alphabet for the Kensington Stone inscription since not all the letters are in play. Unlike the Latin alphabet there is no standard runic alphabet. Runic alphabets cluster by age as they morph from one set to another over time. The best information in English on what was used on the KRS is George Flom's 1910 paper referenced above. You can download a copy from the internet archive.
Harold Edwards
3/22/2019 02:05:43 pm
If you are into codes here is an article on the code used by Ohman on the KRS. It is in Swedish.
Kent
3/23/2019 05:37:07 am
Haven't posted in a little while because of constant chuckling over "Attabash". Once you mangle a Hebrew word so as to deprive it of its meaning I suppose it's easy to cite the Book of Daniel as your example.
William Smith
3/23/2019 11:31:05 am
Harold - If your answer for the question (How did you measure the calcite to be .003 in. thick) Was the results of the 3D scanning process which you say you studied.) FACT : The 3D scanning is not an ex-ray of the stone and surface variation showing the topographical surface can not measure calcite thickness. Properly read at the wear line on the left side of the face it will show three levels of surface wear. Above ground, below ground and a small measurable area between the two.
Kent
3/23/2019 12:16:12 pm
Yes Harald, a toothpick and a credit card will get the job done.
Harold Edwards
3/23/2019 04:00:07 pm
The advantage of laser scanning is the virtual artifact can be examined at will any time and any place. I just made some measurements of rune depths using the 2008 scan. The deepest in the calcite layer is the word spacer on line 8. These look like colons. The upper dot is 1.44 mm deep, and the bottom dot is 1.96 mm deep. Since calcite in marble tombstones in the Kensington area weathers at a rate of 6 mm per thousand years, it would take about 333 years or less to weather away these dots. The inscription in the calcite layer should have weathered away by 1898 if it was carved in 1362.
Jim
3/23/2019 12:51:13 pm
William,
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Kent
3/24/2019 02:48:36 am
The fact that William doesn't point out that .003" per 50 years and .005" per hundred years are pretty close is ... interesting. It's like he doesn't know.
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Kent
3/24/2019 05:28:43 am
Of course you could have asked him about it in the context of closeness. Could be a rounding error, no?
Jim
3/24/2019 03:36:46 pm
Well, he didn't answer the question after I asked him twice.
William Smith
3/23/2019 02:11:37 pm
If you read my field notes and post you will see the wear line rate is .003 in. per 50 years. Ohmans grave stone has a .004 wear line the last time measured.
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Jim
3/23/2019 03:15:32 pm
Horse manure, Ohman's gravestone does not rise above the level of the ground, therefore NO WEAR LINE PERIOD....
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William Smith
3/23/2019 03:44:04 pm
Jim - I suggest you take another look at Ohmans grave stone. It is granite and sits on a granite slab which is rough cut at the ground level. When the wear line is exposed and measured it will read a between 0003 in and 004 in.
Jim
3/23/2019 03:50:45 pm
Geez William, did you forget to look at the link I included ??
Jim
3/23/2019 04:02:45 pm
Granite has a hardness of 6 -6.5 on the Mohs scale.
Jim
3/23/2019 03:37:26 pm
You still haven't explained your change from .003 in 50 years to .005 in 100 years. did inches get shorter from 2010 to 2019 ?
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Jim
3/23/2019 03:20:47 pm
" Calcite and dolomite in carbonate rocks, limestone, dolostone and including marble, are soluble in water and tend to quickly erode. In a rainy climate the inscriptions of a gravestone made of of massive carbonate rocks will become unreadable in a geological short time, like 100 years."
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Accumulated Wisdom
3/25/2019 08:05:28 pm
Harold Edwards,
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Kent
3/25/2019 11:01:24 pm
I am going to steal from the esteemed Mr. Scales and say "Anthony, you imbecile."
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