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Review of Ancient Aliens S13E04 "Earth's Black Holes"

5/18/2018

57 Comments

 
Picture
Picture
​As Ancient Aliens has aged, it has grown repetitive, but more importantly, it has moved farther and farther from its original concept. What began as a straightforward adaptation of Erich von Däniken’s Chariots of the Gods and the ancient astronaut theory that spun out of it has evolved into an all-purpose grab-bag of unusual claims, encompassing modern UFOs, cryptid sightings, psychic powers, and everything else that fills the New Age section of what few bookstores still remain. I can’t say I am terribly interested in mysterious disappearances, vortexes, or any of the sundry similar topics in this week’s episode. I didn’t care for them back in Season 3 when they talked about similar material in “Aliens and Evil Places,” or in Season 7 with “Aliens and Star Gates,” and I don’t care much for it now. You will forgive me if I don’t spend too much time on material that is largely unrelated to either ancient history or space aliens.
​Segment 1
The show opens with a 2017 experiment in California where a particle accelerator experiment resulted in the creation of a very tiny black hole, though it was electromagnetic rather than gravitational. It’s a bit funny to watch David Childress trying to explain high end physics, having clearly memorized prewritten texts, and more amusing to hear him and Tsoukalos try to suggest that ancient stories they had previously attributed to vortices and star gates and wormholes are now the work of black holes. These black holes somehow become portals that allowed ancient humans to interact with the gods. Real black holes would crush to death any people that fell into them due to their overwhelming gravity, but somehow Moses going up on Mt. Sinai is now his trip through a black hole. I’m a little fuzzy on the way they have conflated wormholes, star gates, and black holes. To the best of my knowledge, these are not the same thing, though there has been some speculative suggestion that black holes could be connected to other universes. However, the intense crushing gravity of the black hole singularity would kill any living thing that tried to pass through.
​Segment 2
The second segment discusses the failure of a Japanese satellite in 2016. It broke apart and fell out of orbit due to computer glitches caused by the South Atlantic Anomaly, a magnetosphere area of high electromagnetic radiation. David Childress repeats the narrator’s explanation of the effects of this anomaly almost word for word, presumably because the producers coached Childress and did not bother to check their own work to make sure that the talking heads and the narrator aren’t repeating the same prewritten lines. Anyway, the show suggests that this anomaly could generate black holes or vortexes—they really can’t distinguish at this point. Beyond this, the show asserts that spiral carvings from ancient times are depictions of these vortices. To this end, they discuss the Ingá Stone, a carved rock in Brazil that some feel has astronomical carvings. Although difficult to date, it is likely the work of a people who lived in the area down to the 1700s, The show implies it is much older and more mysterious. Tsoukalos promoted it as “evidence” of ancient astronauts when he toured Latin America promoting Ancient Aliens last summer. The stone has been featured in ancient astronaut literature at least since Ancient Skies, the defunct journal of the original Ancient Astronaut Society, wrote about it in 1977. So popular are the ancient astronaut claims in Brazil that the official tourism website for Brazil alleges that the stone is prehistoric and depicts a rocket.
 
After this, the show covers Ivan T. Sanderson’s midcentury speculation about a set of equally spaced “vile vortices” centered on the Bermuda Triangle, Easter Island, and other famous locations. This goes back to the older claim of a “world grid” governing ancient locations, a Victorian idea taken over from pyramidology but made famous in the middle twentieth century. There is no special reason to imagine that these vortices are of any particular note, since statistically speaking they are not anomalous in terms of “mysterious” disappearances.
​Segment 3
The third segment is about the Bermuda Triangle, a subject that has been debunked so many times that there it is astounding that anyone repeats the old chestnuts as though they were fresh. The case of the abandoned derelict ship the Mary Celeste is trotted out as though it were truly a case of an impossible vanishing, even though the key details that made it a mystery were made up by Arthur Conan Doyle and a few other writers. It’s true that no one knows what became of the crew, but the details that suggested they disappeared in the blink of an eye—breakfast set on the table, the sails all set, etc.—are all fakes. Worse, the show claims that the ship’s crew vanished in the Bermuda Triangle, though the ship was on route from New York to Genoa and was actually abandoned near the Azores, far from the Bermuda Triangle. It was never in the Bermuda Triangle. In 2014, Ancient Aliens attributed the Mary Celeste disappearance, by implication, to a vortex at the bottom of the Sargasso Sea. Consistency is not their strong suit, and they do not remember the so-called facts from their own earlier episodes.
Segment 4
The fourth segment sends David Childress on a flight into the Bermuda Triangle with Bruce Gernon, who claims to have experienced a time anomaly while making the same flight in 1970, traveling (he claims) 100 miles in three minutes. Childress mistakes turbulence for a temporal anomaly, or pretends to, until the pilot informs Childress that it was only turbulence. If any of this seems familiar, well, it is. Gernon was on Ancient Aliens in 2010’s “Mysterious Places” (S02E01) episode and told the same story. This was before I began reviewing the show regularly. Our current segment basically recreates the earlier episode’s segment, but on a plane. The rest of the segment alleges that the population of Easter Island were sucked into one of Sanderson’s “vile vortices,” thus explaining why the island’s society collapsed. Tsoukalos tells us that the Birdman of Easter Island mythology must be an alien god, but this is an odd claim since the Birdman cult only begins around 1500 CE, after the majority of the giant stone heads had been built, and when the island’s civilization was already on its way to collapse. The Birdman cult, far from being the cause of Easter Island’s culture, was a reaction to the beginnings of its decline. And in case you care, in addition to the regular references to the subject on Ancient Aliens, Josh Gates discussed the same topic on his The Hunt for Extraterrestrials edition of Expedition Unknown last year.
Segment 5
The fifth segment deals with late twentieth century missing persons, including a skier who disappeared one night and turned up 14 months later with no memory of what happened. The show has covered claims about missing persons cases being related to alien abduction and temporal vortices in past episodes. They offer nothing new here, and no evidence for supernatural intervention except hearsay and speculation. In other episodes, similar cases were attributed to alien abduction. Here it is portals. None of these are black holes, so the connection to our putative topic escapes me. I am just going to guess that the producers do not really understand what black holes are, or do not care.
​Segment 6
The final segment asks whether vortices can be controlled. Conflating any type of vortex with star gates, portal, and black holes, the show alleges that space aliens control black holes and use them to manipulate humanity. Since they have mastered vortex control, the show seems to suggest that any swirling phenomenon, such a hurricane or tornado also falls under their control. The narrator expresses hope that in the future, we too might use black holes to travel through time and space. I’m willing to invest in that proposition, if our ancient astronaut theorists will be the first to jump in.
57 Comments
Hal
5/18/2018 10:10:07 pm

This was a fantastic, highly educational and scientific episode with 5 university physicists on it. This review says “I don’t understand any of this, therefore there is nothing to understand.”

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
5/18/2018 10:38:27 pm

Actually it sounds uncannily like the Ancient Aliens writers saw this movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFv9ZRAqG1s

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
5/19/2018 09:29:24 am

Appeal to authority. If a hot tub at a conference has a dozen physicists in it, that doesn't make the hot tub scientific.

You're REALLY terrible at argument.

Reply
Hal
5/19/2018 10:09:17 am

You wouldn’t know the difference between an oral and rectal thermometer. It’s the smell.

An Anonymous Nerd
5/19/2018 11:03:57 am

Legitimate academics showing up on this show usually do one of two things.

1 - Say fringe-y things outside of their area. (Sadly many academics, outside of their own area, fall for the fringe with uncomfortable ease.)

2 - Set up legitimate background, on which Ancient Aliens will construct a house of bunk.

So, yes, the "Grunt" is correct: The mere appearance of real academics in the show means nothing. I sometimes wonder if they really know what show they're appearing on, or the nature of it.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Doc Rock
5/19/2018 11:40:09 am

Many academics are like many other people in that they like the idea of being on camera and being the center of attention. So, if someone wants to put you on TV talking about something even remotely related to your research interests it can be tempting.

I think that sometimes academics know full well what they are getting into and simply think that they will be able to speak at length and set people straight on misperceptions about a given topic.

BUT, when academics are quoted in print or appear in a show, it is generally just a snippet of the total material that they provided. So pretty easy to do cut and past and make it appear as though they are speaking in support of some fringe position or have an open mind about it even if that is not the case.

That's why academic soundbites used in fringe work just aren't all that impressive.

Stickler
5/19/2018 06:21:58 pm

The canonical and funnier answer is "the taste".

An Over-Educated Grunt
5/20/2018 12:55:46 am

To be fair, Hal here has established that he's pretty tasteless.

SAL
5/21/2018 11:41:34 am

HAL the thermometer smeller. I'm glad you straightened that out for us dude. Never thought of sniffing one to tell where it had been. True colors.

Jwd
5/18/2018 10:33:08 pm

I agree there was a lot of science in this episode. If they keep this up they’ll get canceled.

Reply
STEVE WARDLE
4/15/2021 06:02:38 pm

I'D LIKE TO ASK ONE QUESTION REGARDING THE OFT REPEATED STATEMENT IN THE SHOW THAT "ANCIENT ASTRONAUT THEORISTS SAY YES"....... LIKE THE MAN FROM DELMONTE PRESUMABLY!.... BUT MY QUESTION IS "DO ANCIENT ASTRONAUT THEORISTS EVER SAY NO?"..... HA HA.. 😂😂

Reply
Machala
5/18/2018 10:47:28 pm

"It’s a bit funny to watch David Childress trying to explain high end physics, having clearly memorized prewritten texts..."

Especially since he hasn't "memorized" anything. Both Childress and Tsoukalos rely on teleprompters for all of their studio work - including "interviews" which are scripted - and cue cards on location.

Reply
Hal
5/18/2018 11:01:12 pm

You have a narrow mind and a broad tongue. And a forked one.

Reply
DJ Veteran Child
5/19/2018 06:10:24 am

Are you the one who always banged on about those "mysterious" rocks with the holes in them? I lose track.

Reply
Not the Comte de Saint Germain
5/19/2018 04:07:20 pm

No, Hal's style is pretty different (and even more boring). He's new here as far as I can tell.

Hal
5/19/2018 04:16:38 pm

Thank you NOT THE COUNT...

Clete
5/19/2018 04:21:28 pm

No, Hal has been posting for awhile. But he offers nothing of substance and is always unable to bring anything new to the topics. He has an opinion about everything and real knowledge about nothing. I suspect he is only about fifteen, living in his mothers basement and posting to this blog (and probably others) between episodes of playing with himself.

Hal
5/19/2018 04:58:30 pm

You must be psychic.

Hal
5/19/2018 05:04:26 pm

Clete thinks I’m superficial. Ha! That’s just at the surface level.

The grim
5/19/2018 04:55:36 am

OMG the same channel that debunked flight 19 now trys to use it again. LMAO.
Martin Mariners tended to blow up because of faulty heaters.
The Flight 19 controller was on the show in the 90s and explained why the green pilots did wrong. Truly pathetic.

Reply
SomeDude
5/19/2018 03:13:04 pm

Hey, pseudoskeptics. I haven't posted here, for a while. Mostly, it looks like the same crap - bashing anyone who would dare even semi-seriously consider the possibility that some paranormal phenomena might, actually, be real. I like to come back when there is more information about Tom DeLonge's effort, which has been pretty successful, so far, and Tom is teasing some possibly HUGE news. This probably isn't that huge news, but I just wanted to let you pseudoskeptics know that a previously classified report about the Nimitz, Tic-Tac-shaped UFO was posted. They claimed that it had the ability to become invisible to both radar and the human eye. Not that you guys will believe it, of course, but I enjoy rubbing stuff like this into your faces. Check it out:

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/i-team-exclusive-confidential-report-analyzes-tic-tac-ufo-incidents/1187688105

Keep in mind that Colavito's first response (and the first response of many other pseudoskeptics) was to say that the conspiracy that was studying UFOs (while many pseudoskeptics were arguing that the existence of such a conspiracy was absurd) "found nothing." Supposedly, this conviction that the conspiracy "found nothing" (even as so much of it was, and is, still classified) was based on the idea that if the conspiracy found something then the funding would not have been cut, as if pseudoskeptics have never heard of a good program being cut for reasons that have nothing to do with the program, itself. Oh, well.

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Hal
5/19/2018 03:46:59 pm

Good post. But these people are skeptards so they will deny any possibility that goes against their beliefs. When you post factual information they try to call it an argument. They are gullible in their own way.

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An Over-Educated Grunt
5/20/2018 07:35:41 pm

Oh no, we describe what you are trying to do as argue - to use a combination of facts and rhetorical technique to advance or defend a position.

The problem is that your facts aren't actually true and your rhetoric is poorly structured and full of easily identified logical fallacies - as, here, rather than state specific grievances, you speak in generalities and resort to argumentum ad hominem.

You are, in short, terrible at argument, either formal or informal. I await your inevitable "your mom" joke of a reply with a mix of boredom and contempt.

David Bradbury
5/19/2018 04:46:01 pm

My first response is that the report has significant features in common with this Ancient Aliens episode: lots of very impressive and authoritative verbiage, to convey an ultimate message of "we have not the slightest idea what the truth is".

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An Anonymous Nerd
5/20/2018 09:46:16 am

Of course what's actually going on is that the rational explanations have more and better evidence behind them and require fewer assumptions. The fringe explanations by contrast require massive amounts of faith, in circumstances where faith shouldn't be required, and where evidence and rationality should rule.

Your side is better at coming up with quips and insulting nicknames though ("skeptard" and so forth).

-An Anonymous Nerd

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Billiam Welcher
6/27/2018 04:38:07 am

Rational explanations? You mean like the show on which they wired the tip tank of an aircraft (the fuel tank on the tip of the wing) to explode, after insuring the right fuel air mixture was present? This to prove the only (rational) explanation why not only the Martin Mariners exploded but why every other airplane that's disappeared in the so called Bermuda Triangle in the mean time did so., Bruce Gernon's experience was not the not first such such occurance to happen in this area. His is merely one told in more detail by someone not afraid of ridicule or other repercussions. This same phenomena, (a distance covered by a machine, incapable of covering a certain distance within a given time), was experienced by a crew of a KB-50 (a B-50 bomber converted to a tanker with the coming of the jet age) enroute to the Azores back in the .60's The exact year escapes my memory at the moment but they arrived at their destination a full 2 hours before it was theoretically feasible even if they had been in an aircraft capable of flying a couple of hundred miles per hour faster. There are of course other areas of the world where an unusally high number of unexplained events have taken place. Rational explanations for something no genuinely rational explanation exist is an attempt by those puesdo-intellectuals (intellectuals considered such only because they subscribe to the mainstream BS) to parrot the excepted, archaic explanations because anything else is simply beyond the ability of their tiny minds to grasp. Often it is simply what the hand they have stuck up their puppet ass, (usually at the end of some government minions arm) is moving their mouths to regurgitate in order to keep something classified.. This is often nothing more than something said minion(s) choose to keep secret, in order to preserve their imaginary importance, and their very real GSA paychecks, pensions, insuranc etc. This of course is all very reassuring to people like the "Anonymous Nerd" who's entire belief system, and their imagined superiority is based on their ability to retain and regurgitate on cue those things compatible with the excepted paradigm

Hal
5/19/2018 05:09:31 pm

Hey, pseudoskeptics, pseudoscientists, and skeptards. Jason needs and wants your money. Give it to him NOW.

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Pi pi
5/19/2018 06:24:04 pm

Boring...

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cesar
5/19/2018 07:52:21 pm

It is the second time that this blog dates the Ingá stone "to the 1700s". The phrase in Wikipedia "it was created by natives that lived in the area until the 18th century" does not intend to date it, but to say that it was not built by Phoenicians or Hittites, as the fringe authors say, but by indigenous peoples. There is a book written in 1618 which narrates that in 1598 a group of soldiers discovered in the same area a monument that resembles the stone of Ingá (pp. 36-37 below).

The Ingá stone is hard to date because it is in the middle of a river and the organic vestiges have been drained long ago. It can be hundreds or even thousands of years old. Let's wait for the scientific research.

http://www.educacional.com.br/classicos/obras/dialogos_das_grandezas_do_brasil.pdf

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Jason Colavito link
5/19/2018 08:05:41 pm

Thanks for point out the error. I have amended the text accordingly.

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Cesar
5/20/2018 02:01:23 pm

“So popular are the ancient astronaut claims in Brazil that the official tourism website for Brazil alleges that the stone is prehistoric and depicts a rocket”.

What the page says is:

“Several figures are carved in low relief in it, such as animals, humans, as well as contours and circles that, ACCORDING TO THE MYTH, suggest a rocket image”.

To the left of this very sentence there is a link to the Institute of National Historical and Artistic Heritage (http://portal.iphan.gov.br/pagina/detalhes/824) with the technical analysis of archaeologists.

In the official site https://search.usa.gov/search?affiliate=usagov&query=Minnesota there is a link to this:

“Home of the World Famous Kensington Runestone - making Alexandria, MN the Birthplace of America! Come and see historical artifacts that support the theory that Middle Age Vikings explored this land long before Columbus”.

http://www.exploreminnesota.com/things-to-do/2738/runestone-museum

Machala
5/19/2018 11:54:49 pm

CESAR,
Thanks for the link.
The entire Dialogus is fascinating. Fortunately, my Portuguese is adequate enough not to have to rely on Google or Babel Fish ( too much ).
Those inscriptions certainly aren't the Minnesota Vikings Rune Stones !
Like you, I shall await what REAL scientific research discovers.

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cesar
5/20/2018 01:12:53 pm

Congratulations to you for understanding the somewhat archaic Portuguese of the book. This is the only online link I found with the drawings of what the soldiers saw on the rocks in 1598.

Thanks.

Causticacrostic
5/20/2018 09:07:00 am

It's common knowledge that the Time Lords invented black holes.

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Dunior
5/20/2018 10:28:21 am

Katie bar the door. The flat earthers have descended on Jason's blog. Never have I seen weaker arguments from anyone here. Retreating to safe space now. Hasta.

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Michael J DeRosa link
5/20/2018 04:19:04 pm

Ancient Aliens, in the true tradition of Erich von Däniken has dragged every possible piece of archeological out of the woodwork to support the Ancient Astronaut Theory. I have read everything von Daniken has published and watched every episode of his successor, Giorgio A. Tsoukalos. Although I have never been an advocate of these theories, the shows are all quite informative. I am more inclined to belong to the opposing theory of an unknown previous advanced civilization, (of humans, not aliens.) However, even that theory has been used to support the Ancient Astronaut Theory, visa their advanced knowledge came from aliens. So it comes as no surprise to me that the show would resort to "an all-purpose grab-bag of unusual claims." It is, non the less, very informative.

This particular episode, touches on something near and dear to my heart. That is the little known, and less understood phenomenon of spontaneous teleportation. While I don't believe that this has anything to do with aliens, (be they ancient or contemporary), I do believe it has everything to do with the network of sacred archeological megaliths that span the globe. In fact I have written a fiction based on this very concept, (one that predates Ancient Aliens by almost 20 years.) The concept is one that I regarded as too fantastic to be taken seriously, so I built a fictional adventure story around it. I am delighted to see that this concept is being promoted by Ancient Aliens, because I believe it to be the very reason why the ancients built megaliths all over the world. I don't think it has anything to do with aliens, (though perhaps aliens may make use of the same phenomenon.) It was touched on in “Aliens and Star Gates,” but this latest episode ties an attempt to make scientific sense of it, (however badly it does that.)

I personally believe that an unknown, (or perhaps forgotten), advanced human civilization harnessed the Geo-gravitational, electromagnetic, field of the Earth, by means of realigning the random energy field and focusing them to power points by using the crystalline structure of specific megalithic stone. This was done, not as a power source, as some suggest, but to create a translocation system to instantly travel to other far off points on the planet and off of it.

So although this episode, may have little to do with Ancient Aliens, I personally enjoyed it, because I think it has everything to do with ancient human history, (very ancient history.)
Sincerely, Michael Joseph DeRosa, author of "Gateway of the Sun" A Novel. (which can be found on any book site, btw.)

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An Anonymous Nerd
5/20/2018 04:39:19 pm

Regarding the possible existence of any hyper-diffusionist, highly advanced, super civilization imagined by Hancock and many, many others.

We can say with confidence that this did not exist, for two main reasons: 1 - there is no specific evidence for it, and this is very much the kind of thing you'd expect to find specific evidence for, not vague hints; and 2 - everything folks have trotted out as evidence for it is better-explained some other way.

This blog is but one of many sources for some of the specifics.

-An Anonymous Nerd

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An Over-Educated Grunt
5/20/2018 07:47:08 pm

Not quite. The entire reason that the phrasing "is it possible" is used over and over is that it cannot be absolutely ruled out. The best we can say is that the evidence currently available does not support it.

Having said that, finding an OOPA that truly does beyond reasonable doubt support either ancient contact with extraterrestrial life or an ancient high civilization would be the kind of career-making discovery that no one would ever be able to ignore. It would be like Heinrich Schliemann finding the terracotta army of the druid-king Tutankhamun in Pompeii. It would turn into a professional dogfight to publish first.

Unfortunately that's not what we get. We get blurry newspaper clippings of the time Great-Uncle Goombaw saw a mummy in the Grand Canyon while he was meeting up with his Templar sex ape cousins, car parts from the 1920s, claims that we're seeing things that are invisible to the naked eye and radar (how do we see it then, and how did they know to look for it?), and rune stones that were so badly damaged by the professional geologist who investigated them as to make them impossible to investigate through direct physical methods. Those that can be tested fail, the rest can't even be tested.

An Anonymous Nerd
5/20/2018 07:57:35 pm

I'm willing to say "impossible" or "disproved" when it's within a certain range. There is nothing that is outside the range of literal impossibility. However when all the evidence presented is best-explained elsewhere or is a fraud or misrepresentation or misinterpretation and stuff like that? I for one am willing to stick my intellectual neck out and say "case closed."

-An Anonymous Nerd

Michael J. DeRosa
5/21/2018 12:55:56 pm

There is considerable evidence of previous highly advanced civilization which science and historians choose to lable "oops-parts." If you've read any of David Hatcher Childress's books you may have heard him mention an entire boat load of such objects that we're dumped into the ocean by the Smithsonian. Hancock is a Johnny come lately, compared to the late Charles Berlitz. All hearsay and no hard evidence to the deciples of science. But there IS evidence if you don't turn a blind eye to it. The "zoomorphic gold bug" that Georgio wears around his neck sits in a museum, among nine other similar pre-Columbian" artifacts. These were classified as such long before jet planes were invented. Now which archelogist would be willing to contradict his teachers, teacher, teacher? Ancient Aliens has used every "oops-parts" they could find to promote the Ancient Astronaut theory. Eric used them in all of his books the same end. Berlitz did the same to support his prediluvian super civilization theory. Believe what you want, but given ten thousand years or so there would be nothing left to say we were an advanced civilization either. After a cataclysm like the Great Flood, you would have to dig a lot deeper for the kind of hard evidence you seem to require. Stone is one of the few things that endure over thousands of years. So aren't a wouldwide network of stone megaliths arranged in straight lines spanning continents evidence? Aliens did this? Pardon me if I choose not to believe that advanced aliens traveled billions of light years to teach primitive humans how to pile big stones around the planet. There is evidence, but the interpretation of the data is what is most important and if I am speaking in generalities it is because any real hard evidence is conviently swept under the rug by science, or classified a national security threat by the government.

Joe Scales
5/21/2018 01:45:19 pm

"...and if I am speaking in generalities it is because any real hard evidence is conviently swept under the rug by science, or classified a national security threat by the government. "

How convenient for your industry.

An Over-Educated Grunt
5/22/2018 12:39:44 am

So do you have any evidence to back up these claims of Smithsonian disposal, government cover-up, and "science" sweeping it under the rug, or are we back to "assertion isn't proof?"

And no, Childress, Berlitz, and Hancock aren't proof either, because someone else's assertion is just an assertion.

An Anonymous Nerd
5/22/2018 07:56:58 pm

"There is considerable evidence of previous highly advanced civilization"

No there is not and my post will be just a short introduction to the specifics on why there isn't.

"If you've read any of David Hatcher Childress's books"

Jason and others have demonstrated the fallacies in much of what he's said and written. To pick one he seems to think that "giant stone balls" are evidence of high advancement when, I am told by craftsmen I know, making a sphere isn't technically hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkbLe3oCGMc

Yes this clip is a joke but it does reflect the depth of Mr. Childress's obsession with giant stone balls. Crafted balls are not "evidence of Atlantis" as he claims.

Here's him claiming to be an "archaeologist," when he's nothing of the sort, and him talking about mining operations on the moon and such. The kind of things that I am used to hearing on Alex Jones's show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3FbllbOeco

"an entire boat load of such objects that we're dumped into the ocean by the Smithsonian."

Jason has covered the Smithsonian and this conspiracy about it, or at least a similar one: They had a policy for a long time of not refusing donations, but when those donations proved upon inspections to be worthless (for example, bear bones mistaken for Nephilim bones) they would just quietly toss them away.

"The "zoomorphic gold bug" that Georgio wears around his neck sits in a museum, among nine other similar pre-Columbian" artifacts. These were classified as such long before jet planes were invented."

The phrase "zoomorphic gold bug" shows up in an exact phrase in Google only two times, both times to a site I've never heard of before. And I can't find pictures of Mr. Tsoukalos wearing a necklace like you describe.

Do you perchance, though, mean the Tolema "aircraft" figurine? If so, it is likely a fish. There are two possible fish species it could be depicting, both of which make way more sense than it being an airplane. I note that Ancient Aliens' model of it only flew once they made considerable alterations to the design. For example they added curvature and a propeller. Chris White's skewering of this in "Ancient Aliens Debunked" is quite remarkable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ

(The whole 3 hours is worth watching, and it just flies by.)

"Now which archelogist would be willing to contradict his teachers, teacher, teacher?"

Any one that wanted tenure. Or anyone that had tenure that wanted fame, glory, possibly fortune, and immortality in his or her field.

"After a cataclysm like the Great Flood, you would have to dig a lot deeper for the kind of hard evidence you seem to require."

Here you're using an assumed "Great Flood" as an excuse to say that we would not find traces of a highly advanced civilization. Against this I'll say that there's no evidence that the Great Flood actually happened. The ArchyFantasies podcast had a great broadcast on this.

Among other things, it's a myth that every culture has a flood myth. Some have floods, some have ice, some have fire. Folks wrote about the kinds of disasters they knew.

Here's Bill Nye using the Grand Canyon to skewer the same notion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe0rCrkh_oA

Finally why would this civilization be so advanced but vulnerable to something as pedestrian as a flood? Such that almost all traces were destroyed?

"So aren't a wouldwide network of stone megaliths arranged in straight lines spanning continents evidence?"

There are lots of ancient world monuments. Lining any number of them up to something, or to each other, is a fairly easy matter.

So, to conclude, I still can say that the notion of an ancient super civilization is disproved by the lack of evidence when the notion not only would require lots of evidence simply because of its extraordinary nature, but by its own terms would require there to be a lot of evidence to find.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Machala
5/20/2018 08:19:06 pm

I'm familiar with Gate of the Sun by Elias Khoury but not your novel. And of course the Puma Punka at Tiwanku Tiahuanaco, Bolivia is often called the Gateway of the Sun ( now in Kalasasaya, Bolivia ) but that's easier to find than your novel.
Then there is, of course, 2 other Gateway of the Sun books offered on Amazon. One by author Lori Wagner and another by a Jack Scott Hunt, besides yours.
All three books are geared, apparently, for young readers. In fairness, I haven't read any of them - other than the book blurb and brief synopsis and the reader reviews, so I will withhold any opinion of your book or "theories" until I have downloaded the kindle version and read it.
If I have a chance, I'll do that tonight and will let you know what I think.

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Michael J. DeRosa
5/21/2018 01:07:43 pm

If you get the Kindle version be sure to look at the links listed in the back. There is considerable science to back what I am driving at with a fictional adventure. Be sure to read the official Airforce document listed there. If spontaneous teleportation is just wild unsupported stories from "grandpa" as some here would claim then just ask yourself, why is the military so interested in it?

Americanegro
5/21/2018 01:55:54 pm

While we're on it might as well ask why was notorious lunatic Major Ed Dames invited to participate in Project Star Gate? Why was there even a Project Star Gate, especially one involving known faker/loon/both Ingo Swann?

You've just been killshot!

http://www.thekillshot.com/dames.cfm
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ed_Dames

Michael J. DeRosa
5/22/2018 10:00:18 am

My dear Mr. grunt, if I had any definitive proof of these things I would have either been bought off or rubbed out. Neither do I have definitive proof of aliens visiting our planet, ghosts, or the Location Ness Monster. However that does not mean these things don't exist. Where there is smoke, there is fire. You are missing the point. You make no mention of the "zoomorphic gold bug" I might add. Some evidence sits in museums, as previously unrecognized proof. Those some nine odd items are just the tip of the iceberg of "oops parts" and the list is growing. There is only just so much that can be swept under the carpet before a new theory demands to be addressed. I am speaking of this new theory, not proof of it. I leave that to the experts. I lack the credentials to be taken seriously by the scientific community. This is why I write fiction. Jules Verne had no "proof" either, and yet almost all he wrote about came to pass.

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An Over-Educated Grunt
5/22/2018 11:52:49 am

So you're the anthropological equivalent of "One Weird Trick To Melt Belly Fat" and "Bankers HATE What He Has To Say About Mortgages."

When questioned about the source of your accusations against governments, the Smithsonian specifically, and against "science," you resort to further innuendo. Unless you have some actual evidence, all you are is one more old woman exchanging gossip around the well.

Facta, non verba. So far all you've provided is a ton of verba, interspersed with plenty of foedus tauricus.

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Michael J. DeRosa
5/22/2018 01:32:03 pm

Lol, Mr. Grunt. I detect an Ivy Leaguer here. Profuse over use of Latin phrases does not make you more intelligent. Over educated, perhaps. You are off topic. Still no rebuttal for the "zoomorphic gold bugs" I see. Shall I bring up some more "oops parts" for you? I have a myrid of them to choose from. Rather than the "belly fat" reference, I would have preferred a comparison to the old "World Weekly News" supermarket rag sheet. Some of the best investigative reporting on the planet, as Men In Black quipped. Rebuttals require facts as well as the unsupported gossip of old women, not mere insulting remarks. I eagerly await your critique of the "zoomorphic gold bugs" or aren't you familiar with them? Ancient Aliens has covered them on more than one episode.

Americanegro
5/22/2018 02:59:58 pm

"oops parts"? What are that?
https://www.swgear.com/shop/shooting-accessories/mp-oops-parts-kit-tactical-gunsmithing/

What makes the "zoomorphic gold bug" an "oops parts"? You seem fascinated by it to the point where you refer to it as if it's somehow probative of... something.
https://mavcor.yale.edu/conversations/medium-studies/tears-sun-naturalistic-and-anthropomorphic-inca-metalwork

Fatti maschii, parole femine

Michael J. DeRosa link
5/22/2018 08:27:16 pm

My dear Mr. Grunt, You’ll have to pardon my “slang” pet name for an “OOPArt” or an “Out of Place Artifact.” I don’t always have the time for a proper post from my smart phone, to check my facts and spelling, (as the “dumb” phone’s auto spell correction of Loc to “Location Ness Monster attests to.) I was not referring to tactical gunsmithing. Hence my “punny” reference, as in, “Oops, this artifact doesn’t fit our perceived notions.” So if you are unfamiliar with the term: “An out-of-place artifact (OOPArt) is an artifact of historical, archaeological, or paleontological interest found in an unusual context, that challenges conventional historical chronology by being "too advanced" for the level of civilization that existed at the time, or showing "human presence" before humans were known to exist. Other examples suggest contact between different cultures that are hard to account for with conventional historical understanding.”

Yes, indeed the “zoomorphic gold bug” that is currently on display in the Gold Museum of Bogota (Museo del Oro, Colombia), is indeed what some term Anthropomorphic, as your “Yale.ed” site refers to. I figured you were a Yalie. Anthropology major? Georgio wears a replica around his neck as a pendant, (undoubtedly his favorite OOPArt, as it is also mine.) It was Ian Sanderson’s pet project, long before Erich von Däniken took up the torch. The zoomorphic classification doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. There is nothing in nature that fits its design components. I’ve tried to get permission to see the gold jaguar at the Penn Museum. It is also classified as zoomorphic, but its leg joints are hinged backwards, unlike the animal, but exactly like a bulldozer with a cogwheel on the tail.
If you need to see them, the gold “bugs” are here:

https://moco-choco.com/2017/11/13/ancient-jets-mysterious-3000-year-old-artifacts-can-fly/

And the emerald and gold Jaguar pendant is here:

https://alaintruong2014.wordpress.com/tag/emerald-and-gold-jaguar-pendant/

There are far too many other OOPArts to mention here. Alone they can be disputed, along with the The Piri Reis Map, The iron pillar of Delhi, the Bagdad Batteries, the 40,000 year old uranium mine in Africa, etc. I am well versed in them all, as my book shelves are lined with all the works of Sanderson, Hapgood, Berlitz, Immanuel Velikovsky, von Däniken,and David Hatcher Childress, (whom I corresponded with for ideas for megalithic sites for my novel.)

Individually you can debunk all the OOPRTS, but together they paint a picture. I was taught as a child that all the geological features we see are the product of wind and water erosion, (aka, the Steady State Theory.) Meanwhile every school child took notice that Africa and South America fit together like a jigsaw puzzle. We were told it was mere coincidence. This gave way to Tectonic Plate Theory. Call it all Facta, non verba, interspersed with foedus tauricus if you like. However Fatti maschii, parole femine, it may seem to you, as for the current scientific understanding of human history, I say: Etiam hic conficiet.

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Michael J DeRosa link
5/22/2018 09:00:21 pm

I seem to be confusing Americanegro’s post with one of An Over-Educated Grunt’s. As for “An Anonymous Nerd’s” post, I seem to have missed it, but what I just posted applies to you as well. I’ve read almost all of David’s books, (he’s quite prolific.) I regarded him as Berlitz’s heir apparent, but it seems he’s sold out to Erich von Dänik’s camp, which I regard as the anti-ancient super civilization theory. So am I the dreamer in this land of skeptics? The youtube clip about Mr. Childress's obsession with giant stone balls, is sophomoric at best. The giant Olmec heads are a better example for what he wants to champion. Just the mention of Atlantis must fan the flames of contempt in this blog. I’ll have at it. There was a worldwide civilization, and Atlantis was just part of one of the previous civilizations, (all quite human btw.) I do, however, believe in extraterrestrials that have in the past and still do visit our planet. I just don’t subscribe to The Ancient Astronaut Theory that attributes any and all evidence of a previous high technology to their doing. Have any of you studied the World Grid? Sacred geometry? Rose lines, or Ley Lines? Let’s start there, shall we?

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An Anonymous Nerd
5/23/2018 07:29:05 am

I had a lot more than highlighting Mr. Chldress's obsession, but focus on what you choose to. Either way, you offer nothing to counter the basic point (or indeed any of the specifics points but we'll focus on the essentials this morning): Everything folks cite as evidence of a hyper-diffusionist super-civilization like Atlantis is better-explained with reference to something else. (I offered but a few examples.)

To believe what you believe requires a huge amount of sheer faith. I can't counter faith but when you pretend there's evidence, it's fair game to point out that there is none.

-An Anonymous Nerd

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Billiam Welcher
6/27/2018 06:18:16 am

I don't pretend to be an excessively educated nerd, anonymous, nor otherwise. However, your flagrant disregard for mainstreams failure to not only address, but in fact completely ignore sites such as Puma Puku(sp?); (not only the location but the technology evident in it's creation) would be comical if not for your arrogance in your assertion that everything can be accounted for by accepted timelines of human technological advances. As I said, I dont pretend to be an academic, but I am capable of reading, and have a fairly good grasp of the forces,required to move heavy objects, to cut and shape various materials, and the properties of the materials nescessary to do both. Even if my spelling leaves much to be desired, I've learned these things through personal experience. While you learned about things, that were often nothing more than presumptions, based on ASSumptions, that are accepted as fact,...because, Well,... it has to because everyone knows that we were once cave men that slowly progressed to where we are today. I could site examples for every culture that mainstream academia claims to have an understanding and explanation of what they supposedly left behind, and show you how it fails to square with reality and you would of course assert your superior knowledge and degrees. as the reason why, the evidence to the contrary be damned, I'm wrong and you are right. That said, what I really would like to hear, as I have yet too, how did those blocks, at Puma Puku with those clearly defined angles, duplicated again and again, with holes clearly bored by some form of machinery, as they are smooth and perfectly symmetrical throughout, come to be where they are, and shaped as they are? What purpose did they play, (oh wait, it had to be a temple, it always is) and what catastrophe brought them to their present state?

Michael J DeRosa link
5/22/2018 09:07:47 pm

Please take note that I am not posting under some pseudonym, and my name actually is Michael J. DeRosa, and you can find me quite easily for any private rebuttals of my opinions. I welcome your disbelief. It is only through disagreement that any progress can be reached.

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Joe Scales
5/23/2018 10:07:19 am

David Childress is your hero? The fraudulent falsifier of history for personal financial gain? It's his idiotic speculation that you fancy?

There's no progress for you. Only imbecility.

Reply
Osiris
6/25/2018 05:01:51 am

The problem with Jason's reviews, is that we have now come to expect him to constantly berate and denigrate the show. If he were to ever genuinely like an episode, he would never be able to admit it. This is what happens when you have to stick to a character or role that your audience has come to expect of you.

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