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Review of "Denisovan Origins" by Andrew Collins and Gregory L. Little

9/10/2019

59 Comments

 
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Denisovan Origins: Hybrid Humans, Göbekli Tepe, and the Genesis of the Giants of Ancient America
Andrew Collins and Gregory L. Little | 432 pages | Bear & Company | ISBN: ​1591432634 | $21.60
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​Denisovan Origins is a team-up between Andrew Collins and Greg Little, two authors whose combined oeuvre includes wild and extreme claims about history ranging from Atlantis and space aliens to giants and Nephilim. Their new book carries an endorsement from no less than Graham Hancock, who claims that the book uncovers a “missing chapter” of American history that supplements “my own book, America Before.” Normally, a publisher will give me a copy of a book and I will write a detailed review that—and this should surprise no one—also serves the publisher’s purpose of promoting the book. I didn’t get an advance copy of Denisovan Origins, in large measure because Andrew Collins reportedly was upset that the publisher had sent out copies of his last book several months ahead of publication, and I am not terribly interested in giving too much space over to promoting a book that the author and publisher wanted to hide from me. But in the interest of the public good, I will look at it anyway, even though it contains very little new material that isn’t repeating claims from the authors’ earlier books
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​Like many of the Bear & Company / Inner Traditions volumes that carry multiple authors’ names, this is not a true collaboration between two writers to produce a single book. Instead, as with other half-assed books from the same publisher, each author wrote half of the book, and the two parts don’t really go together so much as serve as an excuse to fold two long-form articles into a book. We’ll look briefly at each author’s contribution in turn.
 
Part One: “Old World Cosmogenesis”
Andrew Collins leads off the volume with the longer of the two sections, and the one that is the most repetitive of his earlier work. Having reviewed his last volume on the Cygnus Key, there was little added here that he had not previously (mis-)stated in that book or his earlier volume on Göbekli Tepe. The second half of the book is largely concerned with material that Collins and Little published in 2014’s Path of Souls, which posited that the Denisovans were the Bible giants and the builders of the ancient mounds of North America. Here, he calls them “the undisputed founders not only of a universal cosmology but also of a unique form of shamanic-based civilization.” I will leave it to others to go into greater detail about his many misstatements, generalizations, and mistakes and instead focus on the main through-line of his argument, but let me state here that the “undisputed” adjective is eminently disputable.
 
Collins attempts to argue that Göbekli Tepe preserves memories of the alleged Younger Dryas Impact Event and that this is tied to the constellation of Cygnus the Swan, both claims appearing in his earlier books, which I have critiqued in reviewing his Cygnus Key (my review: Part 1 and Part 2). Nothing changes in the retelling. Here he expands the discussion to imagine Göbekli Tepe as the font of Neolithic culture, and he folds in his earlier idea (as refined in a revised edition of yet another book) that the comet impacted the Caribbean basin, which had formerly been Atlantis before the end of the Ice Age flooded it. He purports to create an entire fictitious history of the earth centered around a quasi-mystical society of Denisovan astronomer-priests who were also Bible giants. These people migrated across Europe where they became the Solutreans and then transferred their fluted points to North America, where they became the founding population of Native Americans when they met their own cousins, the Denisovan-Neanderthal hybrids, coming the other way, from Asia. They also transferred their genius and some DNA to the Swiderians (a Paleolithic/Mesolithic people of modern Poland) who became, he thinks, the founders of Göbekli Tepe and through it the patrons of all Western civilization. At some point, they apparently fucked some Neanderthals. I may have a few details out of order. Collins tends to be so boring a writer that it becomes easy to gloss over his repetitive, tiring text.
 
Collins provides as evidence the same old chestnuts about haplogroup X (which he declares, sans proof, the Denisovan haplogroup) and the ideas of Dennis Stanford that have been debunked time and again, and he relies on nineteenth century discussions of skull size and shape to try to connect groups across time and space. Actually, there is a lot of nineteenth century material in the book, and this should surprise no one. It’s a calling-card of pseudohistory.
 
It’s difficult to find much in his argument that hasn’t appeared in his earlier books, and it seems a waste of time to repeat earlier criticisms about his rank speculation, tendency to extrapolate far beyond the evidence, and slipshod methodology. For him, everything is a star, so every mythological reference to a bird is proof of a Cygnus cult and every shamanic ritual was inspired by the zodiac. It’s all rather tedious, not to mention at odds with the historical record, where the modern constellations can’t be confidently traced much further back that Babylon.
 
That at least some of his evidence comes from the same Arabic-language Hermetic lore about star worship and the pyramids that I have interrogated at length for most of the last decade, and which I am writing a book about, does not inspire confidence. Collins imagines that Arabic accounts of the Sabaean Hermeticists of Harran in the early Middle Ages reflect Denisovan lore from Göbekli Tepe eight or ten thousand years earlier. Here’s some news for you: The Arabic stories barely reflect Late Antique lore accurately, let alone Neolithic events, or earlier. (Also: Collins conflates Hermes and Hermes Trismegistus in ways that suggest he doesn’t know there is a difference.)
 
Much of his analysis surrounds Göbekli Tepe’s Pillar 43, which contains some animal figures that, coincidentally or not, are also animals used in the modern zodiac, or in older zodiacs, or not at all, and therefore must be a star map to the comet impact at the Younger Dryas boundary. Somehow the many other pillars at Göbekli Tepe pale in comparison before this one, and I have spoken more than once about Collins’s (and others’) overly imaginative interpretation of some very common animals. Birds and scorpions and such are pretty obvious motifs to use, and no evidence suggests that they were intended as constellations. Indeed, using the same methodology, a skeptic found the same “meaning” in promotional images from the Looney Tunes movie Space Jam. Here, Collins spins an elaborate cosmology spanning millennia of time and thousands of miles of geography from a bird and a scorpion carved on a single pillar.
 
A very weird section seems to embrace a century-old bit of nonsense that Neanderthals were sexually liberated, left-handed, red-haired, matriarchal (!) celebrants of the menstrual cycle (!!) and that this feminist paradise had been hybridized into the aggressive, repressed, masculine Homo sapiens. According to Collins, the masculine/feminine human/Neanderthal hybridization produced a unique “hybrid mindset” coding for a love of both beauty and function. What utter bullshit. There is not a shred of evidence for ethereal Neanderthals or any “hybrid mindset.” This was an invention of Stan Gooch, a psychologist with a penchant for discredited Freudian views of the mind, and it has received no support from experts who actually specialize in anthropology and evolutionary biology.
 
Although the Inuit are a relatively late arrival in North America (descended from the Thule around 1000 CE, in turn splitting from the Aleuts and Siberians around 4,000 years ago), Collins believes that they are Solutrean descendants of Denisovan extraction, having come from Europe 15,000 years ago. Collins repeats a bunch of DNA material that Graham Hancock covered in America Before, and he adds nothing to it except to be even more extreme in proposing trans-Pacific migrations of Denisovan hybrids to serve as the founding population of America. His, however, are not Atlanteans, as Hancock’s are.

I do have to give Collins credit for this: By proposing that both the Solutreans and the populations that crossed into North America from northeast Asia were Denisovan hybrids, he covers his bases, so he can be right no matter what future science determines about the actual history of Native Americans.
 
Everything you need to know about Collins’s final chapters on Denisovans as Nephilim giants building American mounds can be found in this horrible conspiracy theory cum apologia for a lack of evidence:

Since then [2014] the theory that the ancient American giants were Denisovan hybrids has been adopted and promoted by a number of ancient mysteries writers and researchers in articles, books, and even on popular TV shows. Yet even if this startling surmise is correct, it is unlikely to be confirmed anytime soon.
 
Why? Because all skeletal remains of First Peoples held in national institutions and museums within the United States have been repatriated as part of the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, which came into effect in 1990. So until giant remains found in an authenticated Native American context are properly excavated and DNA tested to determine their ancestry, little more can be said on the subject.
Repeat carefully: There are no “giant” skeletons larger than those known from humans in historic times. There is no conspiracy to hide them. Also: There is no evidence that Denisovans were “giants” in the mythical sense. The largest bone fragment found of a Denisovan, a jaw bone, indicates that they probably stood around six feet tall. “Giants” gets defined downward with each generation. Yes, it’s taller by a head than the average Homo sapiens of the era, but nothing like the heights of the supposed giants of legend, or even of Victorian newspaper hoaxes.
 
I’ll also mention in passing, just because it angered me, that Collins attributes autism spectrum disorders to “Denisovan introgression”—too much daydreaming about shamanic voyages to the inner world. He considers this an “advanced” feature that helped the Denisovans evolve to be able to calculate star positions just by looking at the sky and determining the math involved. Uh-huh. The precession of the equinoxes wasn’t discovered until Greek times, and it wasn’t calculated correctly until more than a millennium after that. The Denisovans weren’t doing it. Collins also adopts a bunch of crappy precessional numerology from Hamlet’s Mill, not knowing that he was actually falling prey to a mistake: that numerological system was invented by Abu Ma’shar in 850 CE and then retroactively applied to all the ancient myths and legends that preceded him. I know this because I did the damn homework.
 
Part Two: “American Genesis”
Greg Little takes over in the second half, or, rather, the last few chapters. I won’t belabor the point: It’s a bunch of paranoid bullshit. It starts with a lament that it is “racist” to look for non-Native founding populations in America and proceeds to rail against the “standard” view of American prehistory, which he quotes from a book written in 1956. Yes, 1956. He then cites a more recent account—from the 1970s. I swear to God these old men all have issues with their midcentury schooling and can’t imagine that the world has moved on since then. In a hilarious passage, he expresses wonderment that archaeological journal articles published in the 2000s contain different interpretations from those published in the 1990s, as though new data shouldn’t produce better conclusions.
 
Here, by the way, is Little’s assessment of the importance of archaeology, which reinforces the anti-academic theme of the book:
To a lot of people, the ancient history of the Americas is important only in an academic sense. To other people, it is completely irrelevant and unimportant. The eventual outcome to the controversy of who first entered the Americas will not matter to the vast majority of people. One explanation of why archaeology has become irrelevant to a lot of people relates to the field’s unending internal disagreements and disputes. Some of the quibbles and most hotly debated issues in archaeology are utterly trivial and unimportant to the general public. I’ve heard two archaeologists strenuously argue about whether a certain stone point is a Pickwick or Ashtabutla type. Both of them wanted to win the argument, but no one else cared. When I listened to their argument, what came to mind was something I was told when I was in graduate school: “Never argue over a turd.”
 
One idea in psychology proposes that there can be an inverse relationship between the importance of an issue and the emotional depths to which a debate about that issue can go. That means that when the stakes are small and there isn’t much to win, people go to very great lengths to win what little there is. It is counterintuitive, but it happens. That’s precisely what has happened in American archaeology. It’s a field that now has very limited career opportunities. There is huge competition for the few jobs that do exist, low pay compared with other professional fields, and minuscule amounts of grant money. There is little governmental support for archaeological research when the need for essential services is paramount in the minds of the public and government officials. In addition, one devastating result of hundreds of years of American archaeologists digging into the graves of ancient Native Americans and then putting the skeletal remains on public display is that laws were passed that restrict what archaeologists could do in America. The laws not only prohibit the displays of skeletal remains and burial artifacts, they also required that all the previously excavated remains and artifacts be returned to tribes for reburial and that future excavations will be tightly controlled by tribes and others. One unintended byproduct of the changed law was the removal and disposal of supposed “giant” skeletons that had been excavated from American mounds. Skeptics continue to argue that since the abnormally large skeletal remains cannot now be inspected, it proves that they never existed. 
​I’m a little confused as to how the skeletons were excavated and put on display but somehow the 1990 NAGPRA law completely devastated the entire field of gigantology. Did no one see them between the 1800s and 1990? What about those textbook authors Little quoted in order to disparage?
 
The giant skeletons never existed; they were incorrectly measured regular skeletons, misidentified Ice Age megafauna (and we have proof of that many times over), or hoaxes. In one case from 1896, a “giant” skeleton was just a rock.

Little’s section is a litany of complaints and grievance against everyone he considers to be a member of the intellectual or social elites. He complains about the Clovis-First hypothesis, though evidence disproved it decades ago, referring to it as “holy writ” that could not be challenged before 1997. His rage at theories he mistakes for dogmas makes Collins seem quaint in his old-fashioned piles of pseudo-scholarly nonsense.
 
Little presents a pile of old reports of “giants” from European explorers and early antiquarians and archaeologists, none very convincing, and then claims that skeptics refuse to acknowledge the reality of giants for the same reason that they clung to Clovis-First, a fear of breaking some unwritten dogma about the human past. Not wanting to cite me by name, Little quotes me on the origin of “giant” reports and describes my website in impersonal terms as “a well-known skeptical website [that] repeated the same verbiage that it has spewed at virtually all of the giant accounts.” He then accuses me of “the same eugenics-driven motive that began in the early 1900s. It is to keep the ancient Native Americans in their place as nothing special and racially inferior.” He did, generously, allow that I might be a “dupe” rather than an active racist. Remember, he is writing this in a book that claims that Native Americans are actually non-human hybrids who were ruled over by a European interspecies elite preserving secret star lore from Atlantis. I said that Native Americans are, well, Native Americans who ruled themselves, thank you very much. I can’t quite see where eugenics fits into this. In fact, I wrote an entire book—to be published in the spring by an academic press—about how ideas like Little’s derive from a long history of racism against Native Americans. He might want to read it.
 
In fact, he should probably read it if only because my book covers much of the same material as his section of the current text, and it does so in a way that explores the origins of the claims, their faulty foundations, and how they have historically served imperialist and colonialist ends. Little recycles old chestnuts from the Victorian era about the “moundbuilding cultures” being somehow connected to a lost race of giant elites, that Native Americans have no knowledge of the real origins of the mounds, and that Victorian newspapers and journals are a reliable source of scientific data. Because he has an essentially Victorian view, he doesn’t really consider modern ideas and evidence. For example, the reason that there are few Native oral histories of mound building is due to the massive disruptions of the Contact period, which saw tribes relocate, populations collapse, and historical memories sever. It’s not exactly the baffling mystery he presents it as. In other places, he cites Victorian accounts of skulls unearthed in America that early scientists claimed had Neanderthal features. He does not consider the fact that Neanderthals had only been discovered a few years earlier and the scientists of day didn’t have a full understanding of the subject, so their comparisons were superficial, not authoritative. To his credit, he doesn’t claim these to be Neanderthals—though he says they could be—only that Neanderthal-like humans (whom he says are actually Denisovan hybrid giants) had “special status” among Native Americans, a claim that has no support that I can find in the extant literature.
 
Little, though, is apparently overly concerned with my old blog posts, which he masks under a generic dislike of “skeptics.” “They typically point to a single novel and a few internet articles to support their racism accusation, but as far as this writer is aware, no archaeologists supporting the Solutrean hypothesis have made claims of white Europeans being the first Americans or the Clovis People.” The “novel” is a reference to a blog post I did  many years ago about White Apocalypse, one of many white nationalist works that took the Solutrean hypothesis as support for Aryan nationalist narratives. “Skeptics” don’t point to the novel. I did. Little intentionally flattens my argument and mistakes the use of the Solutrean hypothesis by white nationalists for a blanket accusation that the very idea is inherently racist. It isn’t racist per se, but the use of it for white nationalism is.
 
After this, Little repeats much of what Graham Hancock wrote about ancient mound sites being aligned to the stars, and he tries to force this into Collins’s cockeyed cosmology based on vultures, swans, and Cygnus, a constellation not known in its Greco-Babylonian form in the Pre-Columbian New World. The book ends in the only way it could, with Little screaming into the darkness that skeptics are the real racists because they “demean” Native Americans by refusing to believe that they were superhumans ruled over by a giant Denisovan-Neanderthal-Homo sapiens elite. Like Hancock in America Before, Collins and Little reverse the traditional racist approach to the Mound Builder myth, making Native Americans themselves into the heroic lost race. The attempt at progressive mystery-mongering may soothe the souls of those who understand the racist origins of the old myths, but it does nothing to provide any evidence that those bonkers old claims have any relationship to reality.
59 Comments
E.P. Grondine
9/10/2019 09:21:04 am

"I do have to give Collins credit for this: By proposing that both the Solutreans and the populations that crossed into North America from northeast Asia were Denisovan hybrids, he covers his bases, so he can be right no matter what future science determines about the actual history of Native Americans."

Well, Jason. the problem that you have is that Native American history has been treated as little more than trash for a long time.

Two of the reasons for this is that they remembered both "giants" and "shit from space" hitting the Earth.

And they remembered being here "forever", which really upset the colonists who were stealing their land.

Thanks for the review. So much confusion! It is clear that I can look forward to two future book sales, one copy for Collins, and one copy for Lewis.

I do wish you would review Jarrell and Farmer's The Age of Giants. My own "Man and Impact n the Americas" can always be read for free via inter-library loan.

Reply
The rage of giants
9/10/2019 11:54:13 am

Some of the “shit from space” must have landed on top of your head and caused brain damage.

Reply
The Bible is Crap
9/10/2019 09:33:34 pm

The Bible is a load of crap as well
Biblical Belief underpins the purpose and existence of the Blog
As well as Anti-Semitism in America in 2019

I.P. Grondineley
9/10/2019 10:45:03 pm

Look Asshole,

Are you saying E. P. Grondine is a shit for brains?

Kent
9/10/2019 05:48:15 pm

It can also be read by not reading it. The result is the same.

This is an interesting review because Jason takes a swing at ideas championed by some of this site's more demented, deranged, and deluded posters:

"the Denisovans were the Bible giants and the builders of the ancient mounds of North America"

"the alleged Younger Dryas Impact Event"

"haplogroup X" or mtDNA Haplogroup X, a definitive sign that someone is wrong.

"everything is a star, so every mythological reference to a bird is proof of a Cygnus cult and every shamanic ritual was inspired by the zodiac"

That's a favorite theme of Anthony "Day Ward" Warren a.k.a. "The Defendant" and as Jason says, "tedious".

"There are no “giant” skeletons larger than those known from humans in historic times."

"something I was told when I was in graduate school" Ahh. The unnamed college professor. I've seen this card played before.

But sadly Jason writes: "For example, the reason that there are few Native oral histories of mound building is due to the massive disruptions of the Contact period"

No. It's due to the mounds were built a long time ago. Indians can mess up on their own, they don't need white people to do it for them.

Jason, you say stuff but you don't recognize that THINGS WERE USED BY NAVIGATORS according to a compendium of nonsense written in the 1880s by a Masonic mental patient. Used by NAVIGATORS! The power of my Caps Lock compels you.

This review is brilliant for its damning of E.P. "Death's Door" Grondine and Anthony "Mental Patient" Warren and their crazy ideas. Perhaps but much appreciated.

Reply
Doc Rock
9/10/2019 07:06:39 pm

Some folks like the Natchez might disagree with you on that. My understanding is that they were the only society still building mounds at the time of European contact. That didn't last long after the French arrived to stay though.

I think that when the De Soto expedition passed thru the southeast they encountered a number of large societies (perhaps paramount chiefdoms) that were anywhere from a couple generations to a couple centuries removed from "moundbuilders." It didn't take too long after extensive European contact for them to become very small or non-existent societies. Not to say that everything was peaches and cream before then. But there are disruptions and then there are DISRUPTIONS. Ann Ramenofsky's book Vectors of Death: The Archaeology of European Contact has a lot of good information and a great bibliography (somewhat dated now) relevant to the lower Mississippi Valley.

Kent
9/10/2019 07:37:02 pm

I don't care what the Natchez say, although I do like some Nachos from time to time. I don't trust anyone's memories bitch! (Directed at the generic reader not you specifically because JHVH forbid you go on one of your Kiddie Table rants.)

I don't care what Indians say they think they remember. We've seen that white people WITH WRITING can't remember things from 500 years ago with the recent 1619 nonsense. No one remembers the discovery of the 1362 Newport Tower. (Spoiler: It was not discovered, but built by English colonists and/or their slaves).

Doc Rock
9/10/2019 09:04:57 pm

Well Ann Ramenofsky is not an Indian. She tended to go with archaeological and ethnohistorians data that demonstrates demographic disruptions on a rather different scale than pre-contact. Jibes nicely with what the Natchez might say about things. my point was more directed toward the issue of disruptions and its impact than the issue of of the extent to which oral narratives may or may not be trusted. Hard to have oral traditions to condider when all the tradition bearers are dead.

Shut Up Doc Rock
9/10/2019 09:36:21 pm

What are you doing on a Blog that is populated by believers in the Bible Doc Rock - or haven't you noticed that?

A lot of the posters are religious chums of Jason Colavito

Doc Rock
9/10/2019 09:49:20 pm

So it doesn't sound like you would be interested in hearing me bear witness to how Jesus my Lord and Savior has enriched my life? Maybe if you could attend one if the tri-weekly bible studies that Jason and I co-host it might change your way of thinking.

The bald truth
9/10/2019 10:06:06 pm

Why didn’t Jason mention in his review the highly relevant fact that Andrew Collins is bald?

Kent
9/10/2019 10:34:14 pm

I don't care a tinker's damn who's an Indian and who's not and it's certainly not up to you to say. I'm saying the oral tradition wasn't lost because people died, it was already lost. And before it was lost, it was WRONG. If not, it's the only oral tradition in the world that wasn't. How do you like them apples?

Doc Rock
9/10/2019 10:48:36 pm


The mask is slipping, relax LOL.

Sometimes oral tradition is lost or transformed via the old telephone game and sometimes it is lost because everybody died of smallpox or ended up as slaves that then intermarried in with the African slave population. Sometimes it survives to varying degrees. See, for example, the direct historical approach when it works well. Gotta take it on a case by case basis.

You seem to be conflating two different things; there are people ranging from EP to Wolter who uncritically accept the story that they heard from an "Old Indian" that is taken for gospel for exactly what is supposed to have happened 800 to 8000 years ago. Then there is the professional systematic collection and analysis of oral traditions from multiple sources that is then used along with archaeological and historical data and may or may not be useful. Not just used for Native Americans. Very different processes and one needs to be very cautious about oral tradition while also trying to avoid throwing the baby out with the bath water by rejecting it wholesale.. I will give you a pass on it since you are obviously quite frustrated by the former and are lacking background with the latter. But yet again, a bit of a shift away from what I was originally discussing. So best to leave it at that.

Kent
9/11/2019 02:39:45 am

Smallparks from Europeans right?

I'm saying oral tradition was wrong before Europeans arrived. To save trouble let's say before 1362. You can carefully do stuff with it all day long but the Indians already done messed it up. Anything that starts with turtles? Didn't happen, so discard that and keep whittlin'.

Jr. Time Lord
9/11/2019 04:47:05 am

kent,

I've always taken you for a colossal douche but not a doofus. I now stand corrected.

[KENT
9/5/2019 04:24:42 pm
It bears noticing that Anthony Warren/Accumulated Wisdom/John Doe/The Defendant seems to think Mexico is in Central America. Kinda racist, don't ya think?

KENT
9/10/2019 05:48:15 pm

"everything is a star, so every mythological reference to a bird is proof of a Cygnus cult and every shamanic ritual was inspired by the zodiac"

That's a favorite theme of Anthony "Day Ward" Warren a.k.a. "The Defendant" and as Jason says, "tedious".]

I am not your Boogeyman. I first posted as "Priceless Defender" which are the meanings of my first and middle names. Then, keeping my initials, I switched to "Accumulated Wisdom". This was soon taken over by your stalker, and lead to several extremely long and painful reads. The blog owner didn't seem to care that someone was impersonating me. So, I laid low for a minute and switched to "Jr. Time Lord" which is a shout out to a deceased family member.

I am not the other people you accuse me of. You have likely pissed off thousands of people long before, I came along. When I did post, at least 100 people complained about your American Cool Disco dan character. This proves to me, I am not alone in thinking you are a colossal douche.

E.P. Grondine
9/11/2019 08:56:36 am

"Then there is the professional systematic collection and analysis of oral traditions from multiple sources that is then used along with archaeological and historical data and may or may not be useful."

Excuse me, Doc,but I have a very rigourous apparat for working with oral materials, refined through many years of practice working with European materials.

I deeply resent being grouped with Scott Wolters. He makes far more money. One reason why he makes more money is because he is part of the Theosophist Cult Archaeology industry. I'm not.

I am on pretty good terms both with the Natchez and several regional archaeologists working around there. And then there are the geologists. My book is used as graduate level reading by some of their students.

Ever seen Hi-Lo points from Indiana and Michigan? Lots of fun.

Doc Rock
9/11/2019 10:28:52 am

E.P.,

Sorry if you consider that a low blow but this is one of those if the show fits...scenarios.

But look on the bright side, in this instance you actually come across as reasonable, articulate, and informed compared to some others here. So there's that. Think of your glass as half full today.

Kent
9/11/2019 12:56:02 pm

"I am not the other people you accuse me of."

What the fvck are you talking about?

"You have likely pissed off thousands of people long before, I came along."

What the fvck are you talking about? And what the fvck is your problem with commas?

"When I did post, at least 100 people complained about your American Cool Disco dan character."

What the fvck are you talking about? And to quote Jerry Seingeld, "Who are these people?" Did you also set a state record for "most alters talking inside a patien't head at once" Mr. Two to Five Books a Day Every Day For Forty-two Years Except Days When I Make Up An Excuse?

Doc Rock
9/11/2019 01:36:33 pm

E.P.,

I forgot to ask. In your rubbing elbows with Indians have you heard anything about the controversy surrounding Yvette Collin's dissertation. She used a cherry-picking of native American oral tradition, fringe literature, and seemingly aggressive ignorance involving the use of academic historical and archaeological literature to make the case that horses didn't not go extinct in North America. Rather domesticated horses have always been around and have been an integral part of native America social life. But this story has been suppressed by whites for various reasons.


She has gotten some backlash from other Native Americans who have plenty of fairly accurate oral traditions involving the horse as a fairly late introduction to their particular tribe. Some linguistic evidence is cited by NAs as well which indicates that words indicating horse is a relatively recent introduction to their vocabulary. Quite obviously, anthropologists of the past made heavy use of Native American oral traditions to help explore how various aspects of their societies were transformed by the adoption of the horse. I'm just not sure how many Indians fall in one camp or the other. What do your pow wow buddies say?

Larry storch
9/11/2019 02:28:18 pm

Doc, I’m not sure how EP Groin-pull feels about it, but my impression is that there is a large group of kooky post-hippy, New Age types (almost exclusively made up of miserable middle aged and older asexual hags) who idealize the wild horse to an absurd degree. In fact, they have formed an aggressive movement to protect wild horses in the western areas of the country where the BLM periodically culls the herds to prevent them from quickly exhausting the remaining grasslands. This insane group of crones is so monomaniacally obsessed with the spiritual grandeur of wild horses that they don’t care that if they were left unchecked, the horses would reek environmental destruction. The crazy argument that the wild horses did not die out before reintroduction my Europeans is just a small part of this lunatic agenda.

Larry storch
9/11/2019 02:36:12 pm

Sorry, that should have been “wreak.”

Doc Rock
9/13/2019 09:35:02 am

Larry,

My understanding is that the people advocating for the protection of wild horses are a mixed bag: new age types, native Americans, old guard environmentalist, and just plain old folks that love horses. I've sometimes heard the argument that the BLM doesn't like the threat of overgrazing by wild horses because it gets in the way of leasing the land to ranchers so that their cattle can overgraze on it. Either way, the pseudoscience is being used to some extent to justify protecting wild horses.

Jim
9/10/2019 07:52:36 pm

I though the shit from space story originated with the Pollo Poco tribe.

Reply
REVIEW OF THE BIBLE
9/10/2019 09:31:36 pm

THE BIBLE IS A LOAD OF CRAP
THIS BLOG HAS UNDERCURRENTS OF CHURCHGOING AND ANTISEMITISM

MORE CRAP
ANTISEMITISM EXISTING IN AMERICA IN 2019

Reply
Shane Sullivan
9/10/2019 11:40:35 am

Thanks for the review!

Reply
Graham
9/10/2019 08:55:32 pm

Here is another review by Carl Feagans over at the Archeaological Review, he points out that in some areas they are relying on 50 year old sources to back up their pseudoscience.

https://ahotcupofjoe.net/2019/09/denisovan-origins-a-book-review/

Reply
Doc Rock
9/10/2019 11:51:16 am

Did he really say that Clovis First couldn't be challenged before 1997? I believe that both Dillehay were regularly publishing in the topic at least 15 years before that.

Reply
Doc Rock
9/10/2019 11:55:14 am

And Adovasio.

Reply
Donna
9/10/2019 12:21:41 pm

This Colavito dude chooses weak books to review. Much more interesting would be a review of for example Dolores Cannon’s The Legend of Starcrash.

Reply
Delicious cannon
9/10/2019 12:27:47 pm

Hey sweetie, you can come over to my place and review the “Legend of Starcrash” that’s inside my trousers!

Reply
Stormy Daniels
9/10/2019 12:41:36 pm

They say it was a microscopic impact.

John bolton
9/10/2019 03:11:14 pm

His brain has a similar microscopic impact.

Jim Davis
9/10/2019 05:18:19 pm

Send him a copy. Maybe he will.

Reply
Denise
9/10/2019 09:12:03 pm

I'm sorry but not "all" native remains have been repatriated. Only ones that have been actually claimed by active tribes. My last park has many remains of Timucuan and prehistoric mound builders in southeast Georgia. Which is sad the remains like the skull bundles really need to be placed to rest.

Reply
Ep groan-worthy
9/10/2019 10:16:22 pm

I suppose all of the massive skulls in that bundle were destroyed as part of the cover up.

Reply
Kent
9/10/2019 10:19:58 pm

Why?

Reply
Doc Rock
9/10/2019 10:28:06 pm

I was largely out of archaeology by the time that the NAGPRA stuff really took off. I also tried to avoid working with burials unless it was a salvage type operation. My last understanding of the business was that there was some degree of willingness to work with any tribe in the general area who could make any sort of claim to the remains or were willing to do so. In that case it could be a matter of outreach.

Reply
LARRY storch
9/10/2019 11:20:01 pm


Kent, if you’re asking why the bones need to be “laid to rest,” then the answer has to do with the strange and changing viewpoint white people have historically had toward Native peoples. Until fairly recently — and with a few notable exceptions — whites have considered Native culture barbaric and something to be eradicated and that Native peoples should attempt to become assimilated with white “civilized” society. Look at the policies behind the Dawes Act for example. But since the 1960’s, there has been a turnaround and now white people worship Native culture (or at least their simplified F Troop level conception of it) and go out of their way to “honor” Natives in a cartoonish fashion that in its own way is almost as offensive as prior generations. It’s gotten to the point where you’ll be hard pressed to find a white American who doesn’t proudly claim to be part Native. According to the modern view, the remains (even though they have no remote connection to any existing Natives), have to be treated as sacred to an extant tribe and given a proper burial — and if they’re not, it’s somehow “sad.”

Doc Rock
9/10/2019 11:29:08 pm

Larry,

I don't know that white people claiming Native American ancestry is entirely a post-60s phenomenon. Historically it was a way for people of partial African ancestry to explain why their family members tended to be a bit darker than usual for white people. There also seems to have been a popular trend for whites to claim some Indian ancestry as long as it sounded exotic and did not threaten their whiteness. Hence, generations of southerners who claimed that great-great great grandma was a Cherokee princess.

Kal
9/10/2019 10:47:56 pm

Although I could really care less about Bible giants, as they're barely mentioned in my Bible, I also looked up some of these Denisovans, and that jawbone, and noted that this book seems based on improper wording, not giants. Articles said it was 'the biggest fossil found', not that it was any larger than a modern human, or even their close kin, Neandrethals, at about a 5 foot 5 male. The arm bone did not yield DNA.

Reply
Kent
9/11/2019 02:43:58 am

And who among us hasn't fucked a Neanderthal? It's part of my morning shower ritual!

Reply
Jr. Time Lord
9/11/2019 04:53:11 am

Sounds like you're punching one out in a vain attempt to inseminate your shower drain.

I have never had relations with Neanderthals but, I did get accused of bedding a Leprechaun. She was actually from the Philippines.

Kent
9/11/2019 10:06:18 pm

I meant with an actual human partner, but I understand your masturbatory world view. God forbid you ever have to jack up a car.

LARRY STORCH
9/10/2019 11:45:07 pm

Well, Doctor Rock, that may all be true, but what I'm talkin' bout is what happened after the 60s, with the crying litter-Indian and all that hullabaloo and circumstance.

Like the fiasco that UCLA creates out of Carlos Castaneda.

Now, I'm going to catch the jitney and retire home to my personal papers and diaries.

Good night to you, Sir.

Reply
Doc Rock
9/10/2019 11:58:12 pm

Just call me Doc. I don't disagree with you on much of that. Just pointing out that there have been historical trends beyond what came out of the 60s when it comes to how people perceive Native Americans and configure their own family histories and identities in positive ways in relation to this.

Reply
LARRY STORCH
9/11/2019 12:06:44 am

Well then, I could just ❤️ your post.

You tuck in good now, and remember not to be too hard on KENT.

Reply
Doc Rock
9/11/2019 10:42:03 am

Larry,

Well, As the song says sometimes you got to be cruel to be kind. But in the right measure. Kind of like working with a very highly strung but low performing bird dog.

Kent
9/11/2019 02:52:46 am

Similarly to the abortion UCLA awarded to Castaneda for his lies, the University of Chicago awarded Kurt Vonnishgut an Master's Degree in Anthropology for the novel Cat's Cradle.

Am I a bad person for not respecting degrees?

Reply
Jr. Time Lord
9/11/2019 05:20:40 am

I wouldn't disrespect honorary doctorate recipient Mike Tyson to his face. I would pay money to watch you do so.

Kent
9/11/2019 12:49:00 pm

What the fvck is wrong with you?

Kent
9/11/2019 05:03:30 pm

Given his documented history as a rapist, is this some rape fantasy of yours? Do you want to crank it while you watch Mike Tyson rape me? Or think about it?

You need to focus all your energies on your own offending agenda rather than your celebrity fantasy rapes. This is not the way, Tonto.

Jr. Time Lord
9/12/2019 05:24:25 pm

You really need to quit projecting your own fantasies onto my statements. I was referring to the billionth of a second fight, or more likely a one-punch homicide. He's also known for biting off ears.

What did Mike Tyson say to Van Gogh?

Are you going to eat that?

Kent
9/12/2019 09:41:04 pm

You need to stop getting boners thinking about convicted rapists like Mike Tyson.

Razor ruddock
9/12/2019 11:01:17 pm

Could an argument be made that granting him an outlet to fantasize about violently raping people might make it less likely that actual violent rapes to occur?

Kent
9/13/2019 01:26:04 am

No. He's typically moved around on a handcart like Hannibal Lecter.
And just between you me and the barberpole I have my suspicions on what his schedule is like on Halloween.

No doubt he will soon get his edge in.

Paul
9/11/2019 11:17:05 am

And this book, kiddies, is an excellent example of why controlled substances should remain controlled substances.

Reply
Jr. Time Lord
9/12/2019 05:25:59 pm

You have reminded me of a slogan that was on many bumper stickers and t-shirts when I was a small child.

"Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs." . Author unknown to me.

Reply
East London Skin
9/13/2019 07:09:25 am

Thank you for this review. I'm looking forward to getting your books as a psuedoscience corrective.

Reply
Joe
9/15/2019 11:20:18 am

Here in the Levant we've examined and measured tens of thousands of skeletons, how many giants well 0. People making it to 120 same big zero. Time to get 'woke :-)

Reply

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          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
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        • Phoenicians in America
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        • Prince Henry Sinclair
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        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
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    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
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      • The Novel of the Black Seal
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      • H. P. Lovecraft >
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        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
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      • A Martian Odyssey
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    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
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      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
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      • Position of Viking Women
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      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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