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Review of Forbidden History S06E05: "Search for Noah's Ark"

5/19/2020

23 Comments

 
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Since I was able to obtain episodes of the current season of Forbidden History, which airs on a channel not included in my cable package, I am going to devote some of this week to picking up on reviews of episodes I haven’t seen yet. Today I plan to review the May 3 episode investigating Noah’s Ark. The search for the Ark that saved life from the Flood is older than the Abrahamic faiths. According to the most ancient authorities, the peoples of Mesopotamia believed that the Ark used by the Mesopotamian flood-hero (variously Atrahasis, Ziusudra, Xisuthros, Utnapishtim, etc.) had come to rest on a mountain and could still be seen in historic times. They wrote that there had been an active trade in wood from the Ark, which was collected to be used in magical amulets. This belief carried over into Jewish and Christian practice, and it inspired the hunt for Noah’s Ark. Forbidden History sees it a bit differently.
The show opens with a natural geological formation that they fudge the facts and heavily imply is on Mt. Ararat in Turkey that believers think is the petrified remains of Noah’s Ark. It is not really boat-shaped, more of an irregular oval, but people tend to see what they want to see. The site, however, is the infamous Durupınar site, located on Mount Tendürek, 18 miles from the more famous Mt. Ararat. It sits near to a peak known locally as Cudi Dağı, sometimes linked to Mt. Judi, which the ancients considered the mountain where the Ark came to a rest. Nurse-anesthetist Ron Wyatt popularized the site as Noah’s Ark in the 1970s when he remade himself as an “amateur archaeologist,” though evangelical Christians had started already speculating about a connection when Life magazine ran a picture of it in 1960.
 
Lynn Picknett pops up to offer some ignorance. She correctly claims that people in the past thought they saw Noah’s Ark, but she wrongly identifies the first of them as Marco Polo. Polo believed Ararat—not Judi—was the mountain where the Ark rested, but he did not claim to see the Ark. (She is probably conflating his geographical passage with Sir John Mandeville’s, which does allege that the Ark was still there.) Theophilus of Antioch was, to the best of my knowledge, the first Christian to unambiguously claim Noah’s Ark could be seen on a mountain, though he did not specify the mountain. Nicholas of Damascus, a Hellenized Jewish historian of the first century BCE, claimed that the Ark had formerly been seen on a mountain but was no longer preserved. For your convenience, I’ve collected the ancient and medieval accounts here.
 
Most of the episode is devoted to Andrew Jones, an amateur “archaeological investigator” and longtime Christian Ark enthusiast. He believes that the rocks on Ararat are Noah’s Ark, and we watch as he visits the site to try to prove that the rocky formation is Noah’s boat. Archaeologist Klint Janulis explains the geology of the “Ark” site and how it formed naturally. Medieval historian Dominic Selwood explains that efforts to find that Ark are a “weapon” to assert the primacy of Christianity over science and materialism. As you might imagine, Jones has no interest in the Mesopotamian stories, which place the Ark closer to Mesopotamia, nor does the show bother to explain that the mountain today called Ararat was renamed after the Noachian story. Up until about the eighteenth century, the “mountains of Ararat” covered a broader range, and the Ark was believed to have rested on Mt. Judi, where earlier visitors “found” it over and over for more than a thousand years. Mt. Judi was the preferred choice down to the eleventh century, and maintained a coequal billing with Ararat until the eighteenth century, when Ararat became the Christians’ choice while Judi maintained its following in Islam. The show elides all of this and purposely confuses Mt. Ararat, the “mountains of Ararat,” and most of the geography of eastern Turkey so it all becomes the same thing.
 
We watch Jones use ground-penetrating radar to hunt for the Ark, and then we visit Kentucky’s Ark Encounter theme part to look at a replica of the Ark while Janulis tells us that it “boggles the mind” that Noah could have built the Ark to the specifications provided. He is clearly taken out of context, since he seems to be explaining why the story is implausible, though the producers have used his sound bites to reframe the quotation as proof Noah was a “superman” with advanced technology. A geologist is interviewed to explain that the formation is made of actual naturally formed sedimentary rocks, not petrified wood, and therefore isn’t the Ark of gopher wood unless Noah built a boat out of rocks. Jones rejects this by asserting that mainstream geology is a conspiracy, and the show—to my surprise—actually delivers an accurate geology lesson about the failures of Flood geology and the evidence for deep time. Sadly, though, the narrator minimizes this as “perceived” problems with the Flood narrative.
 
Another segment contrasts Jones’s belief in Noah’s animal husbandry with the various talking heads’ skepticism that Noah could have packed the Ark with two (or seven) of every species.
 
After another break, some large Christian megalithic tombstones are alleged to be anchors for Noah’s Ark. The show explains that Noah’s Flood could not have happened as given in the Bible, since there is no geological evidence for a global flood. Instead, they offer the popular argument that the original Flood myth referred to catastrophic flooding in Mesopotamia five thousand years ago. It’s possible, but not necessary to explain the story. The Mesopotamian peoples also spoke of a global Conflagration, but there is no reason to suspect that the whole world, or even a whole country, caught fire to explain it. Fire and water are common, and imagination can invent events that never happened.
 
In the next segment, Tony McMahon and Andrew Jones allege that Noah was a 12-foot-tall giant. The narrator claims that the Bible tell us this, but that’s not at all true. The Bible does not claim Noah was twelve feet tall. It reflects, sort of, a Jewish legend derived from a longstanding tradition that ancient peoples were all giants, shrinking over time from the massive Adam to the normal-sized us. (This theory of degeneration was famously promoted in the 1700s by a kooky French scholar, who estimated ancient heights at 100+ feet!) Moses, according to the rabbis, was a massive giant, for example. The specific claim, however, comes from creationist Ron Wyatt, who based it not on anything in the Bible but an 18-foot-long crypt allegedly found in Turkey and apparent megafauna bones being passed off as the bones of 12-foot-tall antediluvians. McMahon and Jones have drawn the conclusion that because the antediluvians were giants (Nephilim), therefore Noah was, too. Jones hopes that large tomb found near Ararat is a grave occupied by the “giant” Noah. The show quietly omits that Wyatt believed that he had found Jesus’s blood under the crucifixion site, with only 24 chromosomes (23 from Mary and 1 from God), the Ark of the Covenant, other biblical wonders, and he claimed that the Turkish government sold off Noah’s wife’s “bodice” for $75 million!
 
Then, finally, the show introduces Mesopotamian records, which they present as if the “dramatic evidence” contained in them were new, though they accidentally admit that tablets were first discovered in the 1860s. But even that doesn’t capture the full truth: Babylonian stories about the Flood were always known. The story was told by the Babylonian priest Berosus and was frequently cited in Jewish and Christian literature, demonstrating that our perception that the cuneiform tablets changed the world is an artifact of prejudice. The nineteenth century discovery of the tablets shows that the accumulating evidence forced Christians to reckon with what they pretended not to know by removing any doubt that Berosus reported a pre-Jewish tradition and did not copy from the Jews.
 
Anyway, the show suggests that the Jews copied their flood myth from Babylon during the Babylonian Captivity, though this is debatable. The biblical versions—there are two—may have been refashioned after the Babylonian story, but many believe that it originated from the broader Near Eastern flood stories shared across the Near East before 1000 BCE rather than taken over wholesale in the 500s. Either way, it doesn’t matter much for our topic—Noah’s Ark isn’t on Ararat if the story was made up.
 
Jones, of course, rejects all of this. Jones’s team falsely believes that right angles don’t typically exist in nature, so when their radar finds an angle under the ground, they excitedly believe they found proof that the Ark formation is artificial.
 
I was surprised that the show comes down on the side of science and agrees with the skeptics that the Flood never happened and the Ark story is a myth. The show leans too hard into claiming that the story of Noah’s Ark derives from a real flood around 2900 BCE and that it involved a real farmer who rescued his farm animals. “Skeptics” don’t argue for that—rationalizers do. Given the lack of evidence, the default position ought to be that the story is fictitious until evidence indicates otherwise.
 
Overall, however, this was a relatively balanced hour that made clear that its subject—Jones—is a kook. What made this episode relatively sane is that, aside from Jones, all of the talking heads were actual scientists and scholars, with the exception of very brief clips from their usual rogue’s gallery. The minimization of Andrew Gough, who appeared just once, and Lynn Picknett did much to reduce the crazy quotient down closer to zero.
23 Comments
E.P. Grondine
5/19/2020 09:56:59 am

Jason, have you thought about setting up a Patreon account?

A general principal is that many religious people want to prove that the Bible is "correct", rather than looking at the real events which inspired the tales collected in the Bible.

Herein the States, some people who haven't read their Bibles try to turn Andtste into Nephilim.

Reply
Kent
5/19/2020 12:28:55 pm

I find that herein the States there is no shortage of people who want to position themselves in the role of Tom Brown's non-existent New Jersey-based Apache "Grandfather" and that one non-existent giant is as good as another.

I beg you "Grandfather", let Jason steer the ship! Publishers publish his books.

So this doesn't seem totally personal, it occurred to me earlier that the Flood narrative is in my own world view similar to the Paul Bunyan tales.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
5/20/2020 11:04:47 am

Kent, you need to understand that asteroid and comet impacts have occurred far more often than was earlier thought. See my note to Doc below. But it is still not all that often.

European history of the Americas goes back 500 years, and the rest is Native American history, so if you are looking for impact memories you deal with Native history, the same way that if you are looking at the geological history of Australia then you look at Aboriginal "myths".

As a\far as "giants" go, I will point out to you again that "giant" is an English word used to translate many different Native words. As far as Native memories of the Holocene Start Impact Events go, many of them are quite specific in their details.

Many of your fellow citizens are Christian, and as I have to deal with Nephilim and Noah's flood all of the time, I do not need s*** from you.

Corey
5/19/2020 03:24:57 pm

He does have a Patreon account. I've been a member since the first of the year. He normally only promotes it in his end of the year posts.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
5/20/2020 10:50:11 am

Thanks for that bit of information, Corey. It looks like Jason is going to get some more of my money, to join my purchase of his book.

Kent
5/19/2020 10:32:12 am

"Lynn Picknett pops up to offer some ignorance." So simple and so excellent! I had to stop reading and bask in it for a couple minutes.

"The biblical versions—there are two" As is the case with many of the stories in God's storybook. Almost as if the perpetrators can't get their stories straight. The Gospels are basically fanfic but without the Kirk-Spock romance.

If the annual wildfires are not an artifact of civilization, one might wonder if California Indians or Indians who migrated away from California have any Conflagration legends in their quivers.

Reply
Rock Knocker
5/19/2020 01:26:28 pm

When did Andy Gough get promoted to “explorer” in his name box? AFAIK he had been called a “writer” in the past, but it seems that within the past year or so the “explorer” moniker has crept in. Not that it matters, for enough money he’d probably allow History to call him a psychiatrist or even a librarian...


.

Reply
Doc Rock
5/19/2020 03:08:54 pm

10,000 BCE: The (insert name) River rises in a 100 year flood covering a five mile wide floodplain. 10 year old Og sees it and 40 years later as the last remaining person living from that era tells a group of wide band members of the flood that covered the world as far as the eye could see and people only survived by clustering on a hillock. 500 years of the telephone game and it is now a flood that covered the entire world and people only survived by climbing on a huge pile of floating brush and logs. 1000 years of the telephone game and the people survived by building a huge raft. And so on and so forth. Lot's of rivers, lots of floods thru time, and thousands of years of the telephone game. Global flood myths all over the world but with different points of origin. The end.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
5/20/2020 10:47:31 am

Hi Doc -

"lots of floods thru time, and thousands of years of the telephone game."

Yes, there have been many floods through time. And sometimes the telephone games involve texts.

My work has involved sorting out those flood myths that are myths of impact mega tsunami, and then looking for geological evidence.

Another flood myth is that of the Natchez, which appears to have come from the Holocene Impact Event Floods down the Mississippi River.

Clearly, some floods were so massive that a people's survival was threatened, and those floods were worth remembering.

By the way, Man and Impact in the Americas is sold out, and it has now entered its collectable phase. Prices seem to be holding well.

Reply
Kent
5/20/2020 12:46:36 pm

There was one such flood in New England in the 20th century. Old timers still talk about it but it will probably not move into legend. Ironically the effect of the Game of Telephone become attenuated after the invention of the telephone.

Clete
5/20/2020 03:41:07 pm

I always wondered about several things about a universal flood. First off, after the flood ended and dry land re-appeared, where did all the water go?

Second, how did the meat eating animals not eat all of the plant eating animals?

Third, if Noah's ark saved all of the animals on earth did that include all of the fish and other aquatic species?

And last, who was tasked with the job of throwing all of the animal shit over the side of the ark?

Reply
wakko
5/20/2020 06:18:04 pm

The practical details of this story have long vexed people trying to figure out exactly how, where, and when it happened as a historical event. One explanation of the obvious difficulties with the husbandry in the Ark, for instance, is that the animals didn't have to be fed or mucked out, because they hibernated through the whole event. :/ And another thing: how pairs of kangaroos, armadillos, or polar bears made the journey is something that the writers of the story didn't have to deal with, but modern literalists do.

What impresses me most is how the story as presented is remarkably shy on details. Noah started building the Ark miles from the ocean, and everyone laughed at him for it, until it started raining? People were clamoring at the doors of the Ark as the flood waters swept them away? Sunday school stuff! It actually says that the Lord God told Noah to build a big box, out of these materials and according to these dimensions, and put this and that into it. "Thus Noah did according to all the Lord God commanded him to do...", and that's it. Then the Noah family moved in, the flood came, and "all flesh died that moved on the earth". The rest, as they say, is history. ;) The final resting place of the ark is by no means to only vague aspect of the story.

Reply
Tony D
5/20/2020 09:18:51 pm

Did anyone notice that the woman with the replica tablet may have been reading it upside down.
The one in the museum had the flat end on top in the display.
She was reading it with a magnifying lenses with the flat part on the bottom.

Reply
Paul H. link
5/23/2020 11:32:21 am

Below are an abstract, article, and paper about the geology of what is known by some creationists as the "Durupinar ark."

Bayraktutan, S. M., 2007, Geoarcheological Survey of the
Noah’s Ark, Dogubayazit, eastern Turkey. INQUA 2007
Abstracts. Quaternary International, 167(168), pp.28.

PDF of INQUA 2007 abstracts available at:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/287196060_Chunga_K_Livio_F_Egred_J_Centenaro_I_2007_The_5_March_1987_Ecuador_Earthquakes_a_review_to_the_macroseismic_intensity_applying_the_INQUA_Scale_Poster_Session_3_Wednesday_1_August_2007_1315_-1415_Hall_

Collins, L.G., 2011. A supposed cast of Noah's ark
in eastern Turkey.
http://scholarworks.csun.edu//bitstream/handle/10211.2/3038/CollinsL_creationscience_23.pdf?sequence=1
http://scholarworks.csun.edu/handle/10211.2/3038
http://scholarworks.csun.edu/handle/10211.2/3038

Collins, L.G. and Fasold, D.F., 1996. Bogus “Noah's Ark”
from Turkey Exposed as a Common Geologic Structure.
Journal of Geoscience Education, 44(4), pp.439-444.
http://dspace.calstate.edu/bitstream/handle/10211.2/3026/CollinsL_creationscience_01.pdf?sequence=1
http://scholarworks.csun.edu/handle/10211.2/3026

Yours,

Paul H.

Reply
Joe
5/24/2020 09:30:33 am

Theres a lot more to this story, American fundamentalist, Evangelical 'university invested tens of thousands of dollars in this story, man who got the money disappeared. This Ark shtick is like a ATM for the grifters out there knowing how easy it is to get 'believers' to part with their hard earned cash, looking for 'signs and wonders. What is interesting is to check the names going back years, things quiet down for a few yrs and lo and behold its 'found again. If one compares the names before and after, same con artists.

Reply
Lamont Cranston
5/24/2020 09:45:43 pm

If there was a world wide Noachian flood that wiped out all land plants and air breathing animals, what would you expect to find?

Billions of dead things in rock layers - laid down by water, all over the Earth.

And what do we find when we look at the Earth?
Billions of dead things in rock layers - laid down by water, all over the Earth.

Amazing, maybe if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

Where did the water go? It's funny that our planet's surface is mostly water and if you leveled the land surface to equal height, the land would be approx 1 mile below sea level.

Reply
T. Franke link
5/25/2020 12:27:08 pm

The collection of ancient and medieval accounts starts only after the Bible. I suggest to include the Bible and pre-biblical Mesopotamian flood myths, too, in this collection.

The strangest idea about Noah's flood I ever heard is this:

Allegedly there were settlements / houses built on stilts at the northern coast of the Black Sea, i.e. lake dwellings, pile dwellings. When the dam at the Bosporus broke and the Black Sea basin started to fill (5500 BC?), the settlers allegedly cut-off the stilts and used their houses as ships (in reality not possible of course, they have no stability). The currents moved them torwards Armenia, where they went on land. And that is allegedly the core of the Ark myth.

This had been proposed by the German researchers Schoppe sr. & jr. on the Atlantis conference 2005 in Milos / Greece, based on the ideas of Pitman & Ryan. http://milos.conferences.gr/?atlantis2005

Reply
Jim
5/25/2020 06:28:15 pm

The houses on stilts later to be ships is pretty far fetched all right.
Although perhaps, it seems to me at least, that it is possible that the flood story comes from the flooding of the Black sea through the Bosporus.
The cool thing about the Black sea is due to a lack of oxygen stifling any life forms that may cause organic decay in the deeper parts, ancient shipwrecks etc. are amazingly well preserved. Perhaps some answers will come to light through more explorations of these waters.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2018/10/black-sea-shipwreck-archaeology-map/

Reply
T. Franke link
5/27/2020 08:19:10 am

I agree. The event is a good candidate to leave a stamp in the memories of later generations, formed to legends, and then to myths. But the actual connection to the Black Sea got lost. This shows us how major events with impact to everybody in a generation can get lost in the course of oral tradition.

And there is a big difference to the traditional flood myths: The water did not recede after some time. So, flood events from Mesopotamia are more likely the historical core of traditional flood myths.

Jim
5/27/2020 12:10:34 pm

Haven't you heard ? The recession is fake news. lol. Your right I hadn't considered the waters receding, although a qualified pseudo historian might claim Noah sailed from the Black sea on down to Mt. Arafat before the waters receded.

Jr. Time Lord
5/30/2020 03:25:07 pm

"They wrote that there had been an active trade in wood from the Ark, which was collected to be used in magical amulets."

The remains of a boat or more likely the remains of a temple in the form of a wooden cube. This one just hadn't been carefully covered in carpet, rebuilt and preserved.


The story presented to us relates to the zodiac. There are many layers to the story. Numerical, geometrical, astrological, and astronomical. It also provides the building plans for an obelisk transport. Just like the one used to transport an obelisk from Egypt to England.


I recently discovered the following author and her blog.

https://circumsolatious.blogspot.com/2011/03/noahs-ark-zodiac-09-number-system.html


Would like to know if what she says about Sanskrit is true or not. With the exception of her spiritual leanings, I agree with her astrology interpretations.

Reply
chris
7/8/2020 07:24:36 am

Its seems everyone is missing the obvious , salt destroys vegetation . Armies would salt fields to stop nutrients from allowing growth . So if the whole world flooded on that scale the salinity at the bottom near the earths vegetation even for a week let alone 40 days would be so great including the pressure of that volume of water no vegetation would or could grow for a long long time. So when every animal 2 x 2 was let free what did they eat.

Reply
ahmad link
10/21/2020 04:09:23 pm

God says in Bible and Quran that he created earth 6000 years ago.
Archeologically, this is not possible as science prooved that the earth is about 4 or so billion years old.
However, God says in Quran that one day to him equates to 1000 years of what we count (in another verse, he mentions 1 day to him equates to 50000 years of what we count!!
Dos that not match what Einstein says about his relativity theory and that time bends?
I will leave this to you to discuss. thank you

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