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Review of "The Curse of Oak Island" by Randall Sullivan

11/24/2018

89 Comments

 
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The Curse of Oak Island: The Story of the World’s Longest Treasure Hunt
Randall Sullivan | 410 pages | Atlantic Monthly Press | December 2018 | ISBN: 978-0-8021-2693-1 | $27.00

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​Sometime during the course of the twentieth century, Canada’s Oak Island, located off the coast of Nova Scotia, became the locus of an industry of conspiracy theorists, treasure-hunters, and historical speculators who sought to probe its supposed mysteries in the name of a bewildering array of pretended adventurers to the island. These have included pirates, Inca, Romans, Vikings, Israelites, and of course Knights Templar. For more than two centuries men have dug holes in the ground trying to prove that Oak Island conceals some fabulous treasure of myriad faces, everything from Spanish gold to Shakespeare’s lost plays to the Ark of the Covenant. All of these adventurers have had one thing in common: failure. The only real treasure ever recovered from Oak Island was the advertising revenue generated by the History Channel series The Curse of Oak Island (2014-present), which is looking to pad its profits with the volume under consideration here, from the pen of journalist Randall Sullivan, formerly OWN-TV’s “Miracle Detective,” and recently a Curse of Oak Island guest who promoted a mega-conspiracy (originated by David Childress, synthesizing earlier claims), that Sir Francis Bacon was the true author of Shakespeare’s plays and that the proof is hidden on Oak Island along with the Jewish Temple treasure and the secrets of alchemy.
​I have never been a fan of the Curse TV series, or its stars, Rick and Marty Lagina, who have spent millions digging holes in Oak Island with their friends, to no avail. Almost five years ago, I reviewed the pilot, and I presciently observed that the true appeal of the TV series had little to do with Oak Island’s threadbare mysteries and much more to do with the nature of masculine relationships in middle age: 
Everyone on this show is male, and in focusing on the relationship between two brothers and their circle of all-male friends (most of whom have financial investments in the island and its mysteries), there is a sociological undercurrent reflective of the observation that men bond by doing and that this shared activity serves to unite them. […] This isn’t really a show about Oak Island. It’s a show about brotherly love and male bonding.
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​Or, less charitably, it’s golf with even less of a point.
 
The book The Curse of Oak Island: The Story of the World’s Longest Treasure Hunt comes to readers wrapped in the TV show’s logo and with cover art of an island dissolving into a skull drawn from History’s promotions for the series. A History Channel logo graces the cover three times, and one-third of the book is devoted to following the investigations of the Lagina brothers, sometimes episode by episode, in numbing detail. The dust jacket wants you to know that this is a book for fans of The Curse of Oak Island, but that is both the book’s strength and its greatest weakness. At times, it seems that Sullivan mistakes the appeal of Curse as a deep fascination with the “mysteries” of Oak Island rather than the joie de vivre that the hunters experienced in sharing their fruitless explorations. It says something about the book—and about the absolute nothing that is Oak Island—that nearly all of the photographs in the book are the faces of old, white treasure hunters, with virtually no images of objects, constructions, or treasures. The parade of blank stares becomes somewhat uncanny and unnerving.
 
To that end, Sullivan’s book is a strange production. Because it is geared to fans of the show, Sullivan doesn’t do much setup at the beginning of the book, and he quickly plunges the reader into granular details about various people who have traveled to and from the island over the centuries. I will confess that while I have a working knowledge of the outlines of Oak Island’s history, I lack a detailed understanding of the many facts, rumors, and legends about the island that seem a prerequisite to understand Sullivan’s book. There were times, especially early on, that I had no idea what he was talking about, since geographic features of the island and legendary early explorers of them are simply assumed to be household words among the book’s potential readers. A little more setup and explanation would have helped to orient readers who don’t have every episode of the show memorized. Perhaps the disconnect between writer and reader can best be summarized by Sullivan’s claim that early Oak Island researcher Frederick Blair’s legacy was best represented by “any number of enduring quotes from various newspaper interviews he gave.” I had only the vaguest familiarity with any of them, but Sullivan is probably right that publicity was the Platonic ideal of Oak Island research.
 
About ninety percent of the book is a straightforward and bone-dry history of the various expeditions that have dug holes into Oak Island, going into tedious detail on their budgets, their equipment, and the various holes they dug, the water levels in said holes, and the lack of evidence obtained from the digs. I had difficulty reading it, not because it was hard reading but because I could not force myself to care about it. At rare intervals, the story of the various expeditions interested me—the appearance of notorious fringe writer Harold T. Wilkins and his psychically channeled evidence is a highlight—and some of the documentary evidence of cattiness, pettiness, and feuding among the various personalities is somewhat compelling. But Sullivan chooses to play most of this completely straight, as a serious discussion of a very serious effort to uncover treasure.
 
This is exactly the wrong choice. The only real way to turn such dry material into an exciting narrative—short of all-out camp, on the order of Ancient Aliens—is to explore the underlying themes that animated the various actors. In this case, the underlying theme is obsession. The “treasure” of Oak Island was not originally all that mysterious or fascinating. The legend began, after all, as the claim that Captain Kidd had buried his gold on the island. The first stories were not substantively different from other lost treasure narratives of the nineteenth century, and, indeed, Victorians didn’t think any more or less of Oak Island than of other similar narratives. The later versions, about Templars and Inca and Holy Bloodlines, were all added later, mostly in the 1940s-1970s, in an effort to explain away the lack of treasure and justify ever more elaborate fantasies about how such wealth has remained hidden.
 
No, the real issue is why middle-aged men become hopelessly obsessed with Oak Island, even at the cost of their reputations and their dignity. Perhaps the only sympathetic passage in the whole book concerned Mildred Restall, whose husband Robert became obsessed with the Oak Island treasure in his 40s and kept searching for decades. Mildred “became increasingly miserable, exhausted by the continual talk of the search that was the only conversation” her husband offered. Her son told Sullivan that his mother was lonely and the family so poor due to Robert’s single-minded treasure-hunting that Mildred had to make her clothes out of worn scraps of Robert’s work clothes. The middle-aged Sullivan offers no real insight here, though the former Rolling Stone contributing editor has fallen in with the Oak Island obsessives and paints a portrait of himself as a man who can’t handle the fact that the island may hold no great secret. He quotes one elderly researcher as lamenting that the treasure had to exist or “I would have wasted all of these years.” Only at the very end of the book does Sullivan acknowledge that the real curse of Oak Island is “the way it swallowed up people’s lives.”
 
This failure to fully explore the thread of obsession also leads to the second of the book’s wrong choices. Sullivan is firmly on the side of some lost treasure or another, and he therefore uses editorial asides throughout his narrative to attack anyone, living or dead, who has dared to suggest that Oak Island may hold no real mystery and conceal no fabulous treasure. He attacks Henry Bowdoin—of whom I had never previously heard—in obnoxious detail for concluding in 1911, after finding no treasure on the island, that none was likely to be found. Sullivan sees this as a propagandistic lie designed to humiliate Bowdoin’s rivals and justify ignoring the grandeur of Oak Island’s ersatz mythology. He saves his harshest words for Joe Nickell of Skeptical Inquirer magazine, who suggested in 2000 that Oak Island was really related a ceremonial site used by Freemasons to enact the “Hidden Vault” allegory. Sullivan devotes outsized space to attacking Nickell personally and professionally for a claim that was little noticed then or now, even breaking from his chronological account to fit in more attacks on Nickell’s solution to the mystery.
 
But what exactly does Sullivan hope his book to be? These weird attacks mark the book as something less than a straightforward history of the treasure hunt on Oak Island. The authorial voice, breaking randomly into the first person in the first two thirds of the book, comes to dominate the last third, turning what started as a history of Oak Island into the author’s own stab at a solution and then a memoir of the apparent highlight of his life, appearing on The Curse of Oak Island TV series. This hybrid narrative sits somewhere in between history and memoir, at times overloaded with arcane excavation details and at other times detailing the author’s excitement about joining the Lagina brothers in the endless quest for the “truth” and his frisson of joy at witnessing the emotional connections that the cast and crew of the show forged. It’s less The Curse of Oak Island: The Story of the World’s Longest Treasure Hunt and more My Little Oak Island: Friendship Is Magic. You needn’t take my word for it. Sullivan quotes Rick Lagina as saying as much: “Rick had told me himself that he believed the emotional connections being made among the people involved in the production and in the treasure hunt itself ‘might be the real purpose of all this.’”
 
But like any social circle, there is an in-group and an ostracized out-group, and Sullivan repeatedly acts like a social climber looking for approval to sit at lunch with the cool kids. Sullivan gossips about the various backstabbing and undercutting among the show’s cast, guests, and the production team, particularly the wrath of the Lagina brothers at a potential Curse guest who was banned from the show after he was found to have supported Canadian legislation to protect the island’s cultural heritage, which of course would have harmed the show’s furtive digging of endless holes. He talks about how he hides his real thoughts and feelings in order to get in good with the Laginas. In one chapter—surprising for an official History Channel tie-in—he reports that the Lagina brothers suspected Curse producers of planting at least one artifact for them to find in order to increase the drama, and they threatened producer Kevin Burns that they would end the show if they could prove he had faked a find. Sullivan absolves the production team of any wrongdoing and takes it upon himself to act as a go-between to sooth the Lagina brothers’ feelings and reassure them of everyone’s good intentions.
 
So, what of Sullivan’s solution? It’s basically the one he presented on Curse of Oak Island the TV series a few years ago and which I examined at the time: a ridiculous conspiracy in which Francis Bacon wrote Shakespeare’s plays to encode alchemical wisdom and such wisdom was carried to Oak Island for safekeeping by a religious conspiracy of Rosicrucians. It’s all a bit pointless since the alchemical secrets Sullivan suggests he possessed—the wisdom of Hermes Trismegistus, the magic of the Watchers, etc.—are medieval stories grafted on to ancient legends, not original to them. And in the book Sullivan happily admits to not really believing it all the way but going with it for the sake of the show.
 
I will give Sullivan credit for this: He outlines the TV show’s obsession with the Knights Templar and systematically outlines the same failures and weaknesses of Templar conspiracy theories that I have repeatedly discussed over the years, as well as later conspiracies built atop them, down to Zena Halpern’s recent efforts to promote an almost certainly fake map as a medieval Templar record of Oak Island. He correctly observes that the Zeno Narrative—the basis of the TV show’s frequent claim that Henry I Sinclair, Earl of Orkney explored America in 1398—was a hoax, that its advocates were intentional frauds, and that the stories of Templar fleets departing for America were modern tales spun from Victorian cloth. So close, indeed, is his analysis of S02E07 to my own that I can’t help but think he read my review. As far as I know, I was the first person to cite Lescarbot’s 1610 account of Christian symbolism among the Mi’kmaq to refute the Templar flag = Mi’kmaq flag bullshit argument, and Sullivan repeats my analysis. (Sullivan cites no sources in the book and includes no bibliography, so I can only speculate.)
 
He comes dangerously close to (accurately) accusing the show’s producers and guest stars Kathleen McGowan (the widow of Ancient Aliens star Philip Coppens who thinks herself a descendant of Christ and Mary Magdalene), Alan Butler (who once wrote that future Freemasons built the moon when time traveling), and Janet Wolter (wife of America Unearthed host Scott Wolter) of intellectual fraud by pushing discredited claims and outright hoaxes to play to the Da Vinci Code audience. He also offered some unkind words about what he sees as the overdramatic self-presentation of “Treasure Force Commander” J. Hutton Pulitzer, describing his “getup” as that of “a villain in a campy remake of King Solomon’s Mines.” He criticizes Pulitzer again later in the book, for expressing disdain for academics with advanced degrees. As satisfying as it is to see him attack what he calls “agitated crackpots,” there is more than a whiff of Sullivan trashing his rivals for Curse screen time and the glory of receiving the show’s endorsement for his “theory.” He frequently refers to speculative ideas about Oak Island as having the “third most screen time” on the series or however much, as though it were a mark of quality.
 
Sullivan chose not to go all the way and admit that the guests’ stories were phony modern fakelore, and he happily explained that he chose not to because of the money the History Channel and Prometheus Entertainment push through that program. Sullivan spoke of how producer Kevin Burns convinced him to appear on the show for “four or five episodes” by offering a “sweet deal” involving “all expenses paid” for a month-long vacation in the “loveliest” scenery in Canada, which would double as research for the book under review here. “They were also covering all of the costs of my research and personal expenses,” he added. Sullivan plainly states that he chose to find a “middle ground” allowing for some Templar claims to be true as repayment for “a decent room in a resort […] and a brand-new Jeep to drive in.” That’s why, despite knowing that most of the show’s claims were bullshit, he “owed them at least a good faith effort to serve the show.”
 
To serve the show.
 
Truth, it seems, can be bought for the right price, and the search for facts corrupted by corporate cash. What is amazing is to hear Sullivan freely admit that he will tailor his beliefs for cash payments. In general, he is admirably skeptical of all of the crackpot claims made for Oak Island, except, of course, the one he was paid to advocate. The true depth of his belief in the Baconian theory is unclear, since he claims at times to have devoted years to researching it (the idea was proposed and developed by others long before) and at other times to have selected it as a way to distinguish himself from other wannabe Curse guest stars. This is, ultimately, the problem with paid advocacy: It becomes hard to know how much to trust someone who was paid for the “right” opinion.
 
Overall, the book is longwinded and extraordinarily dull unless you are fascinated by the most arcane details of the various efforts to dig holes on Oak Island. If it is facts you want, however, this is certainly the place to find information about treasure hunting on Oak Island. However, not all the facts are accurate, and the lack of citations makes it hard to say where some of his errors arose. For example, he alleges that John Dee invented the alchemical maxim “As above, so below,” but this is the second line of the famous Emerald Tablet, which dates back at least to the ninth century if not earlier. Sullivan is a journalist by trade, and the more he dives into the arcana of medieval and ancient history, the more out of his depth he falls. His facts about Oak Island and its modern history are admirably accurate (so far as I can tell) and detailed, and he should perhaps have avoided delving too far into ancient mysteries of dubious connection to the island.
 
At the end, Sullivan makes an astute observation about the degree to which Prometheus Entertainment and the History Channel are driving the Oak Island “mystery” industry through their Curse of Oak Island, just as their Ancient Aliens series has run roughshod over ancient astronaut theorists like Erich von Däniken, Giorgio Tsoukalos, and David Wilcock, all of whom have expressed concern that the series has made bonkers claims that they do not support. “The treasure hunt,” Sullivan wrote, “and the television show had become not just intertwined, or even symbiotic, but had merged to the point of being completely indistinguishable.” That’s why the real treasure-hunter on Oak Island is Kevin Burns, the executive producer depicted here as a jolly man of slippery promises, who is as obsessed with Knights Templar as he is with monitoring the show’s weekly ratings and spacing out “discoveries” for maximum drama. The real treasure of Oak Island isn’t what—if anything—is buried under the surface, nor hidden wisdom, nor even the camaraderie of the old men who search in vain. The real treasure are the 2.9 million weekly viewers whose vicarious enjoyment of its “mysteries” and emotional investment in the cast translates into untold millions in advertising revenue that handsomely pays everyone involved and keeps the endless quest pushing forward in search of higher ratings and higher ad rates.

89 Comments
EAGLE FEATHER (Son of Big Eagle)
11/24/2018 09:12:08 am

Why is there a debate on L’Anse aux Meadows and Oak Island? It is logical to note that if you discovered America, you would not place your settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows unless it was a bus stop to another destination. Ships landed there, received supplies, rested, went further down the coast. Scholars seem to miss the point, they only express a limited view of reality. If a scholarly civilization annexes a previous society and writes it down. They have (one)… admitted they were not first. They have (two)… admitted the evidence of that fact even though they keep denying the existence of others due to the fact the previous society didn’t have journals that survived or are being kept under wraps. They have (three)… given credence to every conspiracy theory due to the fact that scholars do not explain the purpose of what is reported. Each fact a person is exposed to creates a dot. When a second dot is created, a logical person can create a story that connects the dots. It is always contradicted by the scholars, even though the scholars don’t explain (purpose).

It is a game… it starts by being tutored with stories of insight, it develops into knowledge of greater purpose by those who give direction, it is stymied by those who demand facts already given and are in use by scholars who continue to deny the existence of such facts. Logic training or futility?

Leif Ericcson-people said he discovered America. Read his story and it says his ship was attacked when he arrived here. People already here! They were Skraelingar, meaning they had already met them previously because they were given a name. The Skraelingar had a purpose, the Vikings had a purpose, it goes way beyond L’Anse aux Meadows! Scholars debate step one, when one hundred steps thereafter are already known. There are giant pyramids down below! They didn’t get there by themselves, or put there by a gathering of tee-pee toting Indians. The Indians were created by the people who were running the pyramids for almost 3,000 years before Columbus. Where’s the debate?

L’Anse aux Meadows is Odin’s Den, to accept the incoming and house the outgoing. Oak Island was for the rabble rousers who rowed the ships. A night of partying before moving on. Treasure? They have been digging in latrine. The pit was designed by Archimedes, the first septic system in America.
Washington DC is Odin’s Cobblestone Court, land of the giants. Roanoke Island is bus stop number two. A rest stop at sea to keep the Vikings separated from the Skraelingar tribes settled on land, so not to disturb the superstitions they were bridled with. South America, it is the equivalent to the south of France. Follow the Mississippi River, the Midgaard Serpent, to the exit portal… that which Leif Ericcson entered when the East Coast was cut off in 985 AD. Where’s the debate?

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V
11/24/2018 11:22:47 am

...what the hell did I just attempt four times to read? Does this pile of word vomit make sense to anyone else? I mean, I recognize the individual words, but strung together this way, they are indecipherable...

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Joe Scales
11/24/2018 12:10:34 pm

"...what the hell did I just attempt four times to read?"

Bait.

EV
11/24/2018 01:49:10 pm

"There ain't no sunshine when she's gone..."

Shane Sullivan
11/24/2018 02:25:34 pm

You've got some intestinal fortitude, V. I didn't make it half way through the first paragraph.

American Cool "Disco" Dan
11/24/2018 05:34:10 pm

I found it quite easy reading when I read it on Wolter's site earlier this week. Like our Scott, Eagle Feather is an idiot.

Jim
11/24/2018 05:44:25 pm

" Does this pile of word vomit make sense to anyone else?

Wolter:

"Eagle Feather,

You are quite right L'Anse aux Meadows was a stopping off point after arriving in North America after an arduous trip. The presence of Butternuts there that only grow at lower latitudes proves the point. Of course, scholars see it differently by claiming they are "trade items" or argue floated there carried by northerly currents carefully skirting the obvious.

The reason scholars and trolls continue this ridiculous dance is fear of the truth. Protecting untenable and outdated ideas along with preserving religious and political interests are also still at work. It's shameful and will ultimately be overturned by truth. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"

Doc Rock
11/24/2018 09:24:06 pm

I would humbly submit that Eagle Feather is making a point. I don't want to spoil the fun by saying more than that.

Melanie Puryear
3/15/2019 07:56:55 pm

Millions and Millions of treasure HAS been found on Oak Island.
Each year, with no real finds, brings more millions in ADVERTISING to the History Channel. Want to guess how many more years this will go on?

Will
11/25/2018 10:48:54 pm

So how many comments until you get to the stone holes Eagle Feather?

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EAGLE FEATHER
11/26/2018 10:14:43 am

Well... that is a very deep subject. 33

EAGLE FEATHER
11/26/2018 10:37:22 am

Here's the teaser trailer...

Oak Island mythology. Successor to Holy Grail mythology.

When people stopped looking for the Holy Grail because it was unattainable, it was then found. It was found at Mt. Rushmore. When the individual emerged from the cave 2,000 indians were waiting on horseback just gawking at him. The Holy Grail was found nine times throughout the history of America.

Oak Tree... known in Norse mythology as the tree of Aydrassil, the tree of life. That is how it sounds, not how it is spelled.

Oak Island... the network of rivers moving into the Mississippi form a pattern similar to an oak tree. The island then being the pyramids at its base, the root system. The various levels bringing you down the Andes Mountains to the tunnel system which is Aydrassil. The Midgaard system of travel.

The silver is almost gone, but the gold goes on forever...

EAGLE FEATHER
11/26/2018 11:10:25 am

Imagine this paradigm...

The Eiffel Tower is structurally built to lower a great deal of weight into a well.

Now you just have to find the well... and build an Eiffel Tower over it to retrieve what was buried.

Priceless Defender
11/28/2018 05:06:38 pm

If, I am following the character-driven drama correctly... You're suggesting one should build an Eiffel Tower over the spot the Statue of Liberty was supposed to be???

Barry Smith
11/24/2018 09:16:22 am

Well said. The only thing Jason Colavito has left out is how stupefyingly boring the show is. A typical episode consists of about 1/3 commercials, whether paid, or for other History Channel program. Of what remains, about 1/4 recap of previous episode(s). The next segment is a recap of the first segment, with some shoptalk about the digging apparatus or surveying technique. In the third, some actual new information appears, usually a nail or a button (presumably from the tunic of a Knight Templar, or some such) In the final segment-you guessed it-more recap, and shreds of speculation about what the "new evidence" might reveal-but you'll have to watch next week to find out.

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Groucho Kenobi
11/26/2018 02:55:42 pm

Seems that is the program content of all my "upper cable channels." Boils down to about 15 minutes of content.

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Jim
11/24/2018 10:20:45 am

Does no one like Kreskin Gary Drayton, who wonders aimlessly and with great purpose through the forest directly to a boulder, upon which he lays his magical detector and with a triumphant cry yells, we may have a bobby dazzler !
Seriously, who the hell looses a coin on top of a boulder? what detector user starts his search on top of a boulder ?
I'm not sayin it was a plant, but, it was a plant.

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Joe Scales
11/24/2018 10:50:25 am

For a more in depth review of the fraud and lies that have served this hoax for centuries now, see Richard Joltes' incredibly informative site:

http://www.criticalenquiry.org/oakisland/index.shtml

Much more interesting than the fake history that Curse of Oak Island pollutes the airwaves with each and every week; though light on the white male bashing...

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E.P. Grondine
11/24/2018 11:52:45 am

@Joe

I suppose the whole search just goes to demonstrate that people believe what they want to believe, facts to the contrary usually ignored. A certain kind of desperation usually motivates their beliefs.

Josh Gates regularly does shows on treasure quests, but in his case there is always real history, and real artifacts are recovered. (Gates' shows have gotten a whole lot better recently, probably due to some change in production.)

I suppose that in this case they will ultimately walk away, leaving their pile behind.

Elsewhere in the news:
https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/clues-in-a-copper-band/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/evidence-of-sodom-meteor-blast-cause-of-biblical-destruction-say-scientists/

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American Cool "Disco" Dan
11/24/2018 05:38:22 pm

"I suppose the whole search just goes to demonstrate that people believe what they want to believe, facts to the contrary usually ignored. A certain kind of desperation usually motivates their beliefs."

Sounds like you might be more self-aware than normal mentally healthy people give you credit for.

E.P. Grondine
11/25/2018 10:34:59 am

@Shit for Brains

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been."

"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

EAGLE FEATHER
11/25/2018 03:25:53 pm

E.P.

copy - "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been."

copy - "The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

Out of all of the posts that have been written to mask the truth, drown out the truth in dribble, your post listed is truly one that I can accept and appreciate! Thank you for showing some sign of intelligence. I was beginning to lose hope.

I lost a tooth last week, but the tooth fairy paid me back.

Doc Rock
11/24/2018 12:19:39 pm

It's commercialized obsession. It's one thing to become obsessed with finding something that is known to have actually existed. I believe that has been the case in many instances when people were searching for sunken Spanish galleons known to have carried treasure. I think one man devoted most of his adult life to it, lost friends and families members seeking it, and came close to bankruptcy. But then he found it. A long shot that paid off, but at a stiff price.

On the other hand, Oak Island represents a quest for something that can't really even be proven to exist, but people just don't seem to care. But the series demonstrates that in some instances, obsession can produce a nice paycheck even if the end result is just more holes dug in an island full of holes. The fringe meets Hollywood and folks on both ends get paid, and you can no longer keep track of all the shows capitalizing on this trend with some epically cheesy results. But if you can convince a small fraction of people in a nation of 330 million to tune in, you got a winner.


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American Cool "Disco" Dan
11/24/2018 05:41:13 pm

Keep in mind the KRS Museum which is essentially a one million dollar public restroom.

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Joe Scales
11/25/2018 11:11:43 am

At least with the Kensington Rune Stone hoax they still have the stone. As for the Oak Island treasure hoax? There's really no evidence to sort through at all. The tale of the three young boys finding a tackle block hanging over soft earth from a recent digging. Now putting aside for a moment that if you just buried the world's greatest treasure, you don't leave a tackle block hanging over it... but I digress. So the "young boys" were real people. They just weren't boys at the alleged time of the fabled discovery. They were men, and two of which owned property on the island. So lie number one, right from the get go.

So there has to be some history of the original story dating back to 1795. Now putting aside that it was a common treasure tale for the time, there was no written record of even the notion of treasure on Oak Island until 1849 when a treasure license was sought. That year ring a bell? Gold fever anyone? But there was nothing in print; no news stories, no diary entries. Nothing. Until 1849. Then the story takes off.

Supposedly those boys found wooden planks where the earth appeared to be dug up. That was around 1860 or so when that nugget came out. Then other details were crafted over the years. Strange pick marks at ten feet down, became wooden platforms every ten feet. Then of course a carved stone was added to the tale. With what, forty feet down, millions will be found? Was that the code? Well, allegedly discovered in 1805, no one wrote down what was on it. No one photographed it, though it allegedly didn't disappear until around 1900. No, what was carved on it only shows up in 1949. Yeah, 1949. Anyone feeling stupid yet for believing this tripe?

Then there are all the tales of them finding a treasure vault... literally knocking on the top of it. But it was either really late, or it was Sunday and they had to go to church... whichever lie you'd like to believe... and they come back the next day only to find those dreaded flood tunnels have sunk their dreams. Yeah, as if you find the greatest treasure in the world... but wait till the next day to open it. Like you don't have lanterns. Or church can't wait. Well, considering flood tunnels have been ruled out by geology and the Windsor formation beneath the island, there you have more lies, upon lies, upon lies.

So no verifiable origin story. Just a tall tale. No evidence of anyone being on that island with an actual treasure. And most of all, not a trace of treasure of any kind. Nothing. Nada. Squat. No valid historical basis. No factual basis. Two centuries of lies. That's it. And now the Laginas own it, lies and all.

Marty bought in back over a dozen years ago. What did he buy? Oak Island Tours, Inc.

Ken
11/24/2018 01:37:22 pm

What I would like to know is how much, if anything, Marty spent of his own money over the years, or a this 100% funded by History Channel. At the end of every season, they wonder if they have enough to afford coming back. Apparently they will keep coming back as long as the ratings hold.

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Doc Rock
11/24/2018 02:25:53 pm

Ken,

Poor mouthing is SOP with professional fringers. They are mere feet away from Burrows cave but they just need more time and money to finish the deal. The Bigfoot colony is actually in the next valley over and next expedition we will go there and prove their existence. Aw shucks, we came THAT CLOSE to finding the Egyptian pyramids in the Grand Canyon. But then the next thing you know they are pushing a whole new topic in a whole new place and getting new money to do it.

Amazing how many discoveries that would alter history remain undiscovered because fringe researchers apparently have such short attention spans and just can't seem to ever take that final step.


The Oak Island brain trust will keep coming back until the sponsors for this topic dry up. Then they will show up some place like Chicago claiming that Al Capone's vault isn't where Geraldo said it was and there are hot on its trail...

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Shane Sullivan
11/24/2018 02:13:35 pm

"Or, less charitably, it’s golf with even less of a point."

They're called "strokes" in golf, Jason, and it's better to have fewer of them. =P

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Jason Colavito link
11/24/2018 02:16:14 pm

Hardee har-har. Of course I meant "point" as in "purpose," not "score."

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Shane Sullivan
11/24/2018 02:26:22 pm

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

orang
11/24/2018 06:21:42 pm

Love these comments. I got hooked on Oak Island almost 70 years ago while listening to an AM radio show. I am grateful for a couple of things: One is that somebody is doing something to resolve the mystery there, and the second is that I have a remote to fast forward through all the repetitive bullshit and the Templar nonsense that keep re-occurring every week. I get through about two hours of programming in about 30 to 45 minutes, so that reduces the agony of the Curse. I like the fact that the budget for the show is apparently increasing every year ( the cofferdam and those seismic explosions) so maybe something can be resolved. I have a growing belief after every season that nothing is there now an maybe never was.

Regarding L"Anse aux Meadows, I believe that no one in their right minds would stop at building an outpost at a shithole like L'Anse aux Meadows. It is a confirmed site so there must be more evidence of additional settlements further south somewhere.

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Jim
11/24/2018 07:48:11 pm

"Regarding L"Anse aux Meadows, I believe that no one in their right minds would stop at building an outpost at a shithole like L'Anse aux Meadows. It is a confirmed site so there must be more evidence of additional settlements further south somewhere. "

Why ? They settled Iceland and Greenland plus the harsh northern Atlantic coast of the Norwegian sea. What makes L"Anse aux Meadows so bad compared to these places ?

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EV
11/24/2018 10:09:26 pm

Ah.. umm.. Jim,

Iceland and Greenland were barely settled and by so few it doesn't even register on the scale of time. Yet, both had to be settled to get ships safely to America from Europe. Norway itself had smaller settlements than those in warmer climates. Yet, it too was essential to getting ships to America safely. More people in Europe, less people in America. All kinds of settlements found in South America. The starting point to return north. European colonies with international roots. The Ohio Valley is where you will find the most European settlements. Cape Verde to the Caribbean was dangerous. Northern Africa moved to the Scandinavian realm for safety reasons. Logic reveals knowledge.

Roanoke Island is a proven settlement. Excavations have shown this, it is in the archaeological records. Follow the time loop, and the history of Roanoke and its people will be revealed.

There is an old map of Washington DC, it had a correction on it. People on TV said it was the Roanoke colony. It actually was the location of where the 'Statue of Liberty' was originally slated to be constructed. They didn't want the traffic, and the original settlers came from the north so it was moved to New York.

But I didn't have to tell you this.. you already know.

Doc Rock
11/24/2018 09:49:06 pm

In recent years there has been archaeological work done to seek out additional sites like L'Anse aux Meadow. That includes work in Newfoundland well to the south of L'Anse aux Meadows as well as at a couple points well north of L'Anse aux Meadows. So there isn't any assumption by scholars that LAM is the only place in North America that the Norse tried to settle.

Also, L'Anse aux Meadow may seem pretty inhospitable now, but that likely wasn't the case in the 11th century when there was a warming trend that lasted several centuries. So, given the areas that the Norse were coming from, Newfoundland could have easily been seen as a destination point rather than just an outpost for settlement further south.

If the Norse did make it further south one would think more evidence of this would have turned up by now. Probably wasn't much dirt getting moved in LAM prior to the excavations. On the other hand, a lot of dirt has been moved in terms of archaeology and construction once you get further south in the Canadian Maritimes and especially once you get down into the eastern seaboard of the US.

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Eirik Sinclair
11/24/2018 10:50:00 pm

In short strokes...

1. Oldest large settlements are in South America - these were Norse colonies that were populated with non-Norse people.

2. Norse Sagas tell of police actions in these areas.

3. Midgaard settlements are the Mesoamerican pyramids - these were scholarly colonies to mix with South American Indians.

4. Knight records tell of police actions in this area.

5. Tribal settlements are in North America - these people became the Scandinavian people.

6. Less archeological evidence in coastal regions given they were kept antiquated in small tribes. Larger tribes, like the Cahokia are well known and in the records.

7. Viking records tell of shipping lanes back to Europe.

8. St. Lawrence River - McMac Indians. Those who were a step away from being Norse replicants.

9. The ninth hole - a putt in the green. The luck of the Irish.

E.P. Grondine
11/25/2018 10:55:15 am

@Doc -

This one is easy, If the "Stonish Giants" of the Five Nations were armored Europeans, which is highly likely.

To sum up, Norse got to Saint Lawrence River and were stopped there.

In all of the imaginary European empire building, the simple facts of the Norse ivory trade with Constantinople are usually ignored.

It is strange. Homer is viewed as historically accurate, while it is pretty clear from the archaeological record that if anything the "Mycenaeans" lost the "Trojan War". Throw out Homer, and everything starts to fall into place.

Why the Eastern Native American oral corpus is treated the way it is is beyond me. It can be checked against both the archaeological and geological records.

PS - the Powhattan name for the Shawnee was Massawomeke.

Doc Rock
11/25/2018 11:54:14 am

EP,

In terms of academia's alleged neglect of Native American oral tradition that dead horse horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp here.

I'm not sure about the specific connection to Constantinople but recent scholarship has discussed the Norse whale ivory trade in relation to both European and Asian markets in some detail. The issue has also been discussed as a contributing factor for both the rise and decline of the Norse colony in Greenland.

American Cool "Disco" Dan
11/25/2018 02:09:56 pm

The oral tradition as recorded by Cusick specifically says the Stonish Giants were Indians from the west, the interior of the continent.

So much for sticking to the oral tradition.

E.P. Grondine
11/25/2018 02:35:32 pm

@Doc

"In terms of academia's alleged neglect of Native American oral tradition that dead horse horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp here."

Yeah, well, I'll let you know of any changes for the better.

When I compare work on the Etruscans, "Arthurian" Britain, or the Late Bronze Age Aegean with the work done on Native America, the lack of quality in the later is pronounced. It really makes you wonder about the archaeological educational system here.

"I'm not sure about the specific connection to Constantinople but recent scholarship has discussed the Norse whale ivory trade in relation to both European and Asian markets in some detail. The issue has also been discussed as a contributing factor for both the rise and decline of the Norse colony in Greenland."

Yeah, well, none of that academic work is making it to the "mainstream", or we would see some mention of it - some mention of it in the videos.

I am looking forward to really good work from Canada in may areas, as I expect none in the US.

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Doc Rock
11/25/2018 04:05:01 pm

E.P.,

I don't know what you mean by "mainstream" and I'm not really sure that I want to know.

In terms of published scholarship on the matter, this is one of the newest articles on the topic that would fall within "mainstream" academic work.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/285/1884/20180978

The results of this research, as well as other past research, has been reported on by popular "mainstream" outlets on both sides of the pond with National Geographic being just one of many examples.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/08/norse-greenland-walrus-ivory-news/

If you are interested in video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkAWQL7Kpl0

This recent research has challenged traditional perspectives on why the Greenland settlement disappeared. As such it is a good example of how scholars are not hopelessly locked into rigid paradigms but are in fact willing to entertain new perspectives when they are actually backed by rigorous research conducted by qualified professionals.

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American Cool "Disco" Dan
11/25/2018 04:29:21 pm

"[P]eople believe what they want to believe, facts to the contrary usually ignored. A certain kind of desperation usually motivates their beliefs."

E.P Grondine
11/26/2018 10:14:59 am

@Doc

Take a look at how little work has been done with the Norse trade records with Constantinople.

But that is beside the point. The problem is work with the Native American oral corpus.

Doc Rock
11/26/2018 12:23:22 pm

EP,

I think that one would have to prove that there was extensive direct Ivory trade between Greenland (or other Scand areas) and Constantinople through time to begin with, as opposed to the distribution of Ivory occurring via numerous middlemen.

But since you said that it is beside the point, after you raised it as a point, I think that I will gladly back away from this particular rabbit hole and fix myself a bloody mary instead.

EV
11/26/2018 12:42:02 pm

Where Queen Mary was buried is exactly where you will find the Treasure! The Golden Fleece was buried under the Statue of Liberty, and Oak Island to the Ninth Degree carries the bounty sought. Look for the Eiffel Tower platform.

E.P. Grondine
11/26/2018 02:30:58 pm

@Doc -

"I think that I will gladly back away from this particular rabbit hole and fix myself a bloody mary instead."

I sure wish I could, but my physician and all of medicine say no.

Titus Pullo
11/25/2018 08:26:42 pm

Jason hit the nail on the head...this show really is about "male bonding in the pursuit of an objective and the adventure along the way."

I stopped watching the show years ago to see what they would "find" from the templars or the producers... :)

But I still catch an episode now and then to catch up on the "team."

I'll digress and share that the few time in my corporate career which were really exciting, fun, driven were times when I was part of a small team trying to do things never before done. A completely new product or service the market had never even thought about before....the pleasure of being in a small team and developing a bond and trust with other people who in some cases you would never be friends with outside work. To watch the team self organize, how each person plays to his or her strengths, how really breakthrough ideas come about (never there some large organized "ideation" bullshit you get from "knowledge management" social scientist assholes) from smart people at ease with each other trying to do things never done before. You begin to "love" your fellow team in ways you don't with your family or spouse or what not. You are sharing something special and you know it. And while women have been in some of these teams..they are usually the ones focused on process or procedure not the really innovation..men build..women organize.

Oak Island is about a team of men trying to do the "impossible"..yes it is "art" and not reality but this is what the writers/producers are doing. Each cast member has their own "role" and personality we have become accustomed to and "cheer" for...

Yes Jason is right..it is about bonding and the adventure. To be honest they are doing what we all want to do...be part of a uniquely talented team...accomplishing something that really matters. Is it all that different than Jason and the Argonauts?

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Joe Scales
11/26/2018 10:05:01 am

"Oak Island is about a team of men trying to do the "impossible"..yes it is "art" and not reality but this is what the writers/producers are doing. Each cast member has their own "role" and personality we have become accustomed to and "cheer" for..."

So you fell for the con? And yeah, it's a con. Marty Lagina is an attorney, an engineer and a millionaire. There's no way he bought into Oak Island Tours, Inc. without knowing the geological studies of the past and what was done before on the island. Yet each and every episode reinforces the same lies upon lies upon lies. Now they're down to sending their metal detector guy out all over the island to find whatever he can, wherever he can and rather than judge each find at its mundane best, anything dug up illogically presupposes the notion of treasure; and ties it in accordingly. But it keeps the excitement going for a few episodes as they first make a find, then sit around and talk about it, then send it off somewhere and talk about it again. Never proving anything of course, and getting no closer to any treasure than anyone else ever did before them. And why? Because there is no rational, historical or factual basis to even believe anything is buried there. Because other people fell for it in the past? That's the only reason. And it ain't a good one.

This season they're onto finding finger drains that have already been discovered and ruled out as serving flood tunnels. Yet the Laginas will straight out lie and tell you otherwise. They're also using ground penetrating radar/sonar of some sort... and yeah, they'll find a cavern underground completely natural for the Windsor Formation beneath. But they'll call it a treasure vault and play the same game for yet another season.

Lies upon lies upon lies. And the Laginas, as well as their buddies, own them all. It is a con.

Reply
Jockobadger
11/26/2018 12:08:27 pm

I recall reading about Oak Island when I was a kid - it was covered in a "Ripley's Believe It or Not!" type of publication. I thought the whole story was great e.g. the platforms found every 10', the rock with strange markings (that disappeared, of course), the flood tunnel trap, etc. I thought they had even found a bit of gold chain at some depth? Anyway, I was suspicious then, and still am, that it's all a hoax. I've watched one episode, a couple of years ago - boring. Are they working with a real geologist?


I'm a bit surprised they're trying to use GPR - I'll have to dig in to the geology of the place, but GPR is a tool with pretty limited utility. I believe that the surface of most of Oak Island is heavily disturbed, likely loose, and probably saturated to near the surface? Not ideal conditions for GPR use, at least in my experience. I've had the best results with GPR while looking for voids in a constructed earthen damn i.e. relatively uniform, and quite dense (hopefully.) It's also useful for finding UG tanks, lines, etc. Should be interesting to research a bit.

Anyway, maybe it'll work perfectly, but I have my doubts. I suspect it's more of a magical black-box plot device that has lights, meters and beeps. I've worked all over the western US, BC, Alberta, blah, blah, but never in eastern Canada. This will keep me busy for an hour or two here at work! I'll report back. Thanks!

Joe Scales
11/26/2018 12:20:48 pm

"Are they working with a real geologist?"

No. They don't seem to have one of those within the Prometheus Entertainment rogues gallery. Serious though, if you want to really get into the history involved in the hoax, you have to savor Joltes' site: http://www.criticalenquiry.org/oakisland/index.shtml


Joe Scales
11/29/2018 12:53:37 pm

In the last episode they actually had a geologist on site where they were drilling holes into the ground and bringing up remnants of old cribbing from past digs... which of course the narrator describes as pieces of a treasure vault. I'm sure the show wouldn't let any geologist go rogue with the geological realities that rule out flood tunnels, but he did get to look at what was being dredged up and made such astute observations as "that's really neat".

GEET
11/25/2018 09:00:15 pm

WOW these comments are priceless. I think the real story here is how terrible Randalls book. Thanks for the review Jason. I look forward to your blog ebery week!!

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Lyn
11/25/2018 09:46:47 pm

hmmm, after careful; consideration of Oak Island I have come to a conclusion. My New Zealand farmlet is on a plateau with a very high water table. Therefore - if I dig down any hole will flood, this shows that my farmlet is the site of a mysterious treasure. Would anyone care to pay me a lot of money for digging rights?
Oh, and to my mind the best part of that review was the comment "Or, less charitably, it's golf with even less of a point."

​

Reply
GEET
11/25/2018 10:37:48 pm

@LYN

Maybe, if your 'Farmlet" has some historical value. Don't get it confused, we are talking about history it has nothing to do with flooding.

Reply
Lyn
11/25/2018 11:47:07 pm

I was noting that half of the Oak Island theories seem to fixate on the place flooding any time they dig. I have to beware of that happening on my place and compared it ironically.

GEET
11/26/2018 10:35:14 am

@LYN

There called flood tunnels. They were built purposely... Do you have flood tunnels on your property? I'm done.

Reply
EV
11/26/2018 11:00:04 am

You may find your treasure in beauty.

Mix two chemicals, a treasure to be found.

If one of the chemicals is aware, then there could be a flood. The other to escape down the sewer. Flood tunnel.

When the mine dries up, a means of travel.

If they had a flood tunnel in biblical times, Noah wouldn't of had to build a ship.

Just think of all the tunnels returning to the point of origin, to retrieve what was left behind.

Reply
Joe Scales
11/26/2018 11:49:15 am

Geet… are you an idiot? You think flood tunnels were dug on Oak Island sometime in the 18th century that extended from a beach over 500 yards and 90 feet deep to stop people from digging up an imaginary treasure? What did they use to do this? Wood? Stones? And it still works to this day? I mean... if only our own infrastructure was built so solidly. We'd never have burst pipes or water main breaks. Or clogs, apparently. But you think there are man made flood tunnels on Oak Island to guard a treasure of some sort. Ever heard of the Windsor Formation? Ever heard of Geology? Are you aware that the water source that would flood any deep pit on Oak island comes from far off shore? The depths of the ocean.

No? None of that sways you? Well, for those who might believe that the History Channel features actual history, you might want to take a look here at the hoax as it truly is:

http://www.criticalenquiry.org/oakisland/index.shtml

Spend a day or two there. Read the articles. Then come back and try to convince us of flood tunnels. Idiot.

Reply
Jockobadger
11/26/2018 12:21:36 pm

Thanks for the link, Joe. I'll read up on it. Is the water that has flooded the workings saline? Have they ever mentioned that? I've not watched the show.

When I read about this as a kid, the engineered flood tunnels sounded really cool, but were also the most suspicious part of the whole story. Even then I knew I was going to be a geologist and I had at least some idea of the difficulty/complexity of installing that kind of "trap." I couldn't believe that a bunch of pirates would have the know-how or go to all the trouble. It's too bad because it was a cool story. I'll read up on the Windsor Formation - I've never had the opportunity to work in eastern Canada, but would love to see it.

CORKY
11/26/2018 12:27:59 pm

The most valuable item to ever come from Oak Island was the drill bit. It was more of a cork at the end of a straw.

Rivers are tunnels that are flooded. Funnels.

Joe Scales
11/26/2018 12:38:35 pm

From Joltes' site:

http://www.criticalenquiry.org/oakisland/Dennis_King_Mar_2010.shtml (see appendix A)

Back in the 60's, geologist Robert Dunfield concluded the flood water was from about 3/4 miles away and completely dispelled the flood tunnel myth (as was done back in the past as early as 1867). They buried his report though, for nearly 40 years. It's funny though, whenever the current television show refers to Dunfield, they picture him on a bulldozer smoking a butt and decry his past "destructive activities" on the island. The Laginas only pretend to embrace any science, and I'm sure any skepticism expressed by those they pay to dig and explore gets cut accordingly.

GEET
11/26/2018 12:58:06 pm

@Joe Scales

I do not consider myself an idiot. And you make some great points. No need to show me your hyper-tension. Take your meds dude. I agree with you, but they have dug up the flood tunnels, and will air the discovery this season. After that, I drop the MIC. Because I can.

Joe Scales
11/26/2018 02:12:17 pm

Well Geet, forgive me for calling you an idiot when imbecile would be a better term of art. What they're digging up this season with the cofferdam at Smith's Cove are finger drains which had already been discovered. They did not extend past the beach and they were likely the remnants of an old salt works. But the show will find them and lie to you and tell you that they're proof of flood tunnels. Something geology and geologists have long ruled out.

Don't let that mic hit your foot on the way down...

CORKY
11/26/2018 03:29:10 pm

'Likely' is a precursor to 'maybe' or 'maybe not'
'Qualified Professional' is a precursor to 'Deception is profitable'
'A study by an Expert that is overturned by the next Expert' is a precursor to 'the next Expert who will overturn the next study'
'An imbecile who follows an imbecile' is a mind who follows the same pattern
Too bad the first imbecile was following a Qualified Expert. Everything on this planet was abandoned for a reason, the next paradigm of futility readied and prepared for launch.
The next audience waiting in the wings for what will be missing when they get there. A study of what no longer exists to study.
The only true expert, is the expert who was there when it happened. For people would follow them for centuries.

Jockobadger
11/26/2018 12:44:45 pm

Well, that didn't take long. Looks like quite a number of qualified geologists have looked at this. I was unaware of the limestone Windsor Formation, but it certainly explains the flooding, notwithstanding the fact that the bottom of the "money pit" is at least 70' below the OHWM. Also, sounds like the chain links I mentioned above were salted - not unheard of when someone is promoting a mine (or treasure!)


The geologist named Dunfield apparently used a dragline while exploring the beach and God knows how many shafts have been sunk and then refilled with loose sediment. I suspect that GPR will be useless. I certainly wouldn't propose using it. Anyway, it'd be great if they actually found a real treasure that would shut up all the doubting Thomases like me.


Reply
CORKY
11/26/2018 01:00:38 pm

Processing nuns from the Confederacy of 1255 AD.

I prefer my fries without salt.

Reply
GEET
11/26/2018 03:26:38 pm

@Joe Scales

I have interacted with you many times on Jasons blogs., Not sure why you feel it necessary to name call. I find you to be a despicable human. Maybe you are Huttoony-Loony? Im not going to argue about who knows more, everyone knows more than the next guy.. Just saying. Maybe you should learn how to interact with people you big bully.

Have a nice day.

Joe Scales
11/26/2018 04:05:02 pm

Fair enough Geet. You're a good sport so I'll endeavor to put it more nicely. The idea of centuries old man made flood tunnels to guard an alleged treasure that has no rational, historical or factual basis to begin with... is idiotic. The show is lying to you. At some point when the ratings dry up, they'll all pat themselves on the back, say they gave it one heck of a go, but alas... the "Curse" has beaten them too. Then they open a resort.

EV
11/26/2018 04:24:34 pm

I'm going with GEET on this one. Even though Oak Island is not a treasure pit, it justifiably would be an adventurous out house. I've seen the boring apparatus Archimedes created. The stone base found out in the surf would be good support so it doesn't veer off course. Coconut husks too good to be faked. The need for a septic system at this location drops the scales in favor of a latrine.

Kal
11/26/2018 03:24:14 pm

"The oldest treasure hunt in the world"? or something?

That's false. Atlantis is from the ancient past, thousands of years ago.

The holy grail search, King Arthur and all that, the 1200s.

The ark of the covenant disappeared in the Babylonian period, thousands of years ago.

These are far older stories than this made up island treasure from Oak Island, which really only dates to 1911 or so, not the 1200s or 1600s.

Maybe the show needs someone to do their math as well.

Not bad mystery cover, if not stolen from Treasure Island and Pirates of the Caribbean.

Oak Island is nothing more than a middle age man's Survivor, crossed with some Treasure Hunters from the early 2000s. If they ever found anything, the show would be over, because it's the journey!

Must get pretty boring only finding soggy wet tree roots and old wells and tunnels.

And wasn't Egyptian treasure and Incan treasure, and lost city stuff even older than this? Didn't those old Egyptian tombs predate Plato?

El Dorado is even older than Columbis, 1400s. It iwas probably never in the new world. It too is an older treasure hunt story than this.

Reply
EV
11/26/2018 03:48:43 pm

A treasure hunt is like the reality show Survivor. Each week there are treasure hunters. But the real treasure goes to Probst who gets his payment regardless.

Don't you think El Dorado is the city of gold, like gold skinned beauties, or golden haired replicants who carry the genes of ancient greece? Like Cahokia. Then, men or women of faith, or science, or regal nature, place the equivalent price of reward in that city. When found, a system of purging and fleecing returns the treasure to the keepers for renewal?

I've seen what was left of the Ark of the Covenant. Last blog in the 90's said I liked to pass out my 'Golden Apples'. Sounds like the bloggers were the ones who showed me the Ark, or the remnants which look like a golden basketball hoop. We need a real treasure hunt. Something fun. Something with the governmental obstacles removed and have an all out brawl. Back to Oak Island for a night of partying. Darn, I'm too old. Well, there's always the Fountain of Youth.

Reply
Doc Rock
11/26/2018 03:58:00 pm

I've never managed to make it thru even one episode of the show because the subject became one big bore to me decades ago. But I am curious:

Has it ever been brought up that there wouldn't be much left of a large treasure after it had been divided among a crew of 100 or more men?

Has it ever come up in the show that pirates seemed to have had the reputation of blowing through their ill gotten gains pretty quickly rather than hiding it. I would think that turning a pirate lose with a small fortune in the circa-1700 equivalent of Vegas would quickly result in a broke pirate.


Has it ever occurred to anyone that the cost, time, manpower, and effort involved in constructing such a massive and complex hiding place would exceed the value of the alleged treasure being hidden.

If people in the present can't get to the treasure with all of the technology available then how in the hell were the people who hid it supposed to recover it?

Reply
Jockobadger
11/26/2018 04:53:09 pm

~ "If people in the present can't get to the treasure with all of the technology available then how in the hell were the people who hid it supposed to recover it?"


LOL. I wondered the same thing when I first read about this. Maybe you had to dig only counter-clockwise, find the rock with the engraving, and pull the secret switch made of coconut fiber with a firm yank.

Reply
CORKY
11/26/2018 05:03:18 pm

How? Didn't you watch National Treasure?

Always put in a second shaft. The base of the Statue of Liberty was sealed, but a secondary shaft was created to access it from the church in New York.

Take the MX missile program. A system of land based missiles on a railroad track. Now defunct, because they never were. Reality- sea based system of missiles on submarines, those that went missing, that access tunnels filled with water. Appearing in a lake near you.

If you are there first, you can do whatever is needed. If you get there second, you are only allowed to do that which will accomplish nothing.

Reply
Frank
11/26/2018 05:48:15 pm

"Well Geet, forgive me for calling you an idiot when imbecile would be a better term of art. What they're digging up this season with the cofferdam at Smith's Cove are finger drains which had already been discovered. They did not extend past the beach and they were likely the remnants of an old salt works. But the show will find them and lie to you and tell you that they're proof of flood tunnels. Something geology and geologists have long ruled out."

The longer one argues with an idiot, or an imbecile, if the latter is in any way different, the harder it is to tell the difference. I guess certain idiots are picky about which idiots they engage, or just plain hypocrites, besides.

Are any posters here real?

Just love the insults, although the material is rather dry. What nonsense to discuss logically! Better Atlantis, at least there, there is a slight chance that an hypocrite/imbecile may, by chance, read more than just the author's story of Atlantis, and therefore chance to read that we pay for our "crimes" ten times over, at least.

Joe Scales, you are ten times the idiot you accuse others to be.... no wait, 100 times...no wait,1000 times.... no wait, an idiot to the nth point of infinity.

But how shall we manage, Joe Scales?–At any rate I will set
this "crown" of mine upon your head, as you have given me such excellent advice about arguing with idiots. And to the Gods we will offer crowns and perform the other customary rites
when I see that day approaching: nor will it be long hence, if they so will.

Going to hell to pay 10x your trespasses is much too good for such an "intelligent" and knowledgeable idiot like yourself, my dear Joe. You are an idiot simply because you do not know that the only knowledge worth knowing is the knowledge of good and evil, and the rewards and punishments that we will gather from choosing the one, or the other; both in this life, but more so in that other one to come.

We are all idiots, but some more so than others. Because only the Gods know. And the one that realizes this is the one who is less of an idiot.

Reply
American Cool "Disco" Dan
11/26/2018 06:23:44 pm

"A" for effort, because you've really got to try to be that long-winded. Frankly Frank, not your best work.

Reply
Joe Scales
11/26/2018 08:49:58 pm

That was actually rather brief considering how my new cyber-stalker usually carries on. I used to always respond, "Again. Half as long." Don't think he ever got it though. But then again... he is an idiot.

D. Chapline
11/26/2018 08:59:43 pm

I was looking for a book review and bammmm. Tv show review here we are. So let’s start with I do watch the show weekly it’s simple entertainment to me. I have read and reread many books on the island and am fascinated by how many normal well educated people have devoted there time and money to this endeavor. I am excited to buy the book and see what new ideas even if they are crazy are put out there. I think people are either all in or all out when it comes to Oak Island so few will be swayed by a good or bad review. I hope the book is readable and someone gets to the bottom of the hole soon.

D.C.

Reply
Joe Scales
11/26/2018 09:09:38 pm

D.C.
There is no mystery. Follow the link if you want to actually know the nature of the hoax:

http://www.criticalenquiry.org/oakisland/index.shtml

Start with the top ten myths. Much more interesting than the lies the Laginas spin each and every week.

Reply
Peter de Geus
11/27/2018 07:28:38 pm

Was the alleged planted artifact identified in the book? If so, what was it, or if it has made the rumour mill otherwise, I'm curious to know? (sorry if already noted in comments, which I have not read)

Reply
Corey
11/28/2018 12:56:16 am

My guess it was the Spanish coin which was "found" at the end of the first season right as the rich brother said he needed "evidence" to keep funding the hunt.

Reply
Joe Scales
11/29/2018 12:55:51 pm

That would have been my guess as well, as I was able to find the same exact sort of coin on Ebay at the time for about ten bucks. Even if real, it wasn't so much evidence of any treasure. Maybe somebody's lost penny jar perhaps.

Jason Da Racist
11/28/2018 05:27:33 am

Hey racist removing comment I see. CantC take nobody? Racist twerp everything is racist for you including white men on Oak Island. Twerp nothing to do with racism loser. Get beat up in school I guess loser. Oh yeah I know you were bullied twerp.

Reply
Joe Scales
12/5/2018 11:08:46 am

Well, the Cremona Document showed up on Curse of Oak Island last night. Apparently, Zena Halpern's son needed to clean out his late mother's crap out of the house, and the boys from Oak Island showed up to cart it all away. Hopefully, he got paid for it... and the smile on his face just might have been an indicator of just that.

Reply
SouthCoast
12/16/2018 12:46:04 am

Dig they must. Eventually, they're going to need a bigger island.

Reply
Man this site is funny... None of us matter fellas
12/25/2018 09:47:31 pm

Bunch of nonsense in this place. So many dumb dudes trying to sound intelligent over online arguments.
Guess what fellas, no one cares. Guess what else.. people are dumb and do dumb things. Like watch dumb shows. Or waste time on stupid shit. No matter how you spin it, dress it up or plate it. It is still shit..

We are all just cattle. Bunch of nobody’s talking about nothing. If any of us were of any importance you really think we would be commenting on this site about a stupid show? Get over yourselves....

Reply
Skeptical Geologist
5/7/2019 01:59:29 pm

I defense of the show - their methodologies are actually technically sound (I would approach the problem in a similar manner, such as by coring with sonic equipment, performing seismic surveys, radiocarbon and dendrochronology dating of wood samples) and I see no evidence for anything that I would call fradulent. So unlike a lot of other "reality" and pseudo-history (e.g., S.W.) shows, I give Curse of Oak Island high marks in that they are genuinely trying to find what they think is treasure. Mind you, I don't think for a second they will find the Holy Grail and Templar treasure. But I give them credit for honestly being on a treasure quest. Looks like they are having fun, so no harm.

Reply
Peter Krohn
9/10/2019 07:42:57 pm

I have just come across this program on SBS, a free to air channel in Melbourne, Australia, where I live. I was intrigued and looked for more information. Among all the dross on the internet this review by Randall Sullivan stands out, it not only give the program context but it is beautifully written and stands on its own as a piece of writing. I won't be committing myself to the investment of time required to watch the entire series but I may dip in occasionally. With the endless recaps it shouldn't be too hard to keep up!

Reply
Ronald link
11/12/2019 09:37:20 pm

What a pile of crap this is worst then ancient aliens , mountain monsters (AMS) and searching for BIG FOOT there's already to many brain dead morons who believe this dribble STOP PLEASE (STOP)!!!!!!

Reply
Jon Nixon
2/24/2020 07:28:17 pm

OK, I watch the show. Don't ask me why. Maybe all the cool machines and guy stuff. They spent more on a seawall that we did building our neighborhood. Something fascinating about other people wasting money.
Does anyone else notice that Marty Lagina always wears the same maroon sport shirt, complete with logo of his vineyard? And that Rick has never been quite right since his bout with Lyme disease?
My wife ribs me. "What did they find tonight?" she asks. "A log, some rocks, and an old iron nail" I answer.
"Look, they are huddled in the war room", I say, trying to draw her in. "They dated a tree to 1780!"
"Wow. That's a seriously old tree" she replies.
Now I am waiting for them to uncover the Masonic Pyramid in the swamp. Likely, it will be next season, though.........

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        • Volume 6 Archive
        • Volume 7 Archive
        • Volume 8 Archive
        • Volume 9 Archive
        • Volume 10 Archive
      • Volumes 11-20 Archive >
        • Volume 11 Archive
        • Volume 12 Archive
        • Volume 13 Archive
        • Volume 14 Archive
        • Volume 15 Archive
        • Volume 16 Archive
        • Volume 17 Archive
        • Volume 18 Archive
        • Volume 19 Archive
        • Volume 20 Archive
      • Volumes 21-30 Archive >
        • Volume 21 Archive
        • Volume 22 Archive
    • Television Reviews >
      • Ancient Aliens Reviews
      • In Search of Aliens Reviews
      • America Unearthed
      • Pirate Treasure of the Knights Templar
      • Search for the Lost Giants
      • Forbidden History Reviews
      • Expedition Unknown Reviews
      • Legends of the Lost
      • Unexplained + Unexplored
      • Rob Riggle: Global Investigator
    • Book Reviews
    • Galleries >
      • Bad Archaeology
      • Ancient Civilizations >
        • Ancient Egypt
        • Ancient Greece
        • Ancient Near East
        • Ancient Americas
      • Supernatural History
      • Book Image Galleries
    • Videos
    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
      • Secret History of Ancient Astronauts
      • Of Atlantis and Aliens
      • Aliens and Ancient Texts
      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
        • Robert Temple
        • Giorgio Tsoukalos
        • David Childress
      • Blunders in the Sky
      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
      • Native American Discovery of Europe
      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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