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Review of The Unexplained Files' Segment on the So-Called Bosnian Pyramids

9/3/2014

76 Comments

 
Last night Science Channel’s The Unexplained Files did an episode on a Siberian lake serpent and the so-called pyramids of Bosnia, large naturally eroded formations that have roughly conical shape. The claim that these hills are artificial and belong to an exceeding ancient pyramid building culture is primarily that of author Semir Osmanagić (also transliterated as Osmanagich), who also believes in ancient astronauts, that Hitler escaped to a secret Antarctic ice station, that Nazis secretly run America, and that the Freemasons are the secret rulers of the world. The European Association of Archaeologists evaluated his pyramid claim in 2006 and declared it false:
This scheme is a cruel hoax on an unsuspecting public and has no place in the world of genuine science. It is a waste of scarce resources that would be much better used in protecting the genuine archaeological heritage and is diverting attention from the pressing problems that are affecting professional archaeologists in Bosnia-Herzegovina on a daily basis.
I don’t care much about lake serpents, though I was amused that the show carried a warning that it would have disturbing material. (They didn’t find the lake monster, in case you care.) That said, I will omit coverage of the segment on lake serpents and instead focus on the discussion of the Bosnian pyramids as we “rethink everything you think you know,” as per the title sequence. What I think I know is that even fringe figures don’t agree that there are any massive pyramids in Bosnia, as geologist and fringe speculator Robert Schoch (of Sphinx water erosion and global pyramid culture fame) concluded after visiting the site several years ago. (He also accused Osmanagich of faking parts of the site.) It is primarily the least educated and most sensationalist fringe figures, like the late Philip Coppens, who wholeheartedly endorse the claims.

We open at Visoko in Bosnia, where we are introduced to Osmanagich, whom the show describes as an archaeologist. Though he holds a Ph.D. in social sciences, he is not employed in the archaeology field but in manufacturing. His dissertation from the University of Sarajevo claimed that the Maya actually predated the Olmec, were in communication with China, and had inherited crystal skulls from a lost civilization. Needless to say, his dissertation was not done as part of an archaeology program but under the auspices of the Faculty (Department) of Political Science. (Archaeology is taught in the Faculty of Philosophy.) Therefore, claiming him as an archaeologist appears to be unsupportable.

Osmanagich describes his belief that five cone-shaped hills (topping out at 700 feet) near Visoko are artificial and part of a “monumental landscape.” The show compares these to Khufu’s Great Pyramid, which it proceeds to wrongly illustrate with images of Khafre’s pyramid. Osmanagich reviews his excavations of the hills, in which he uncovered rectangular blocks of stone that almost obviously appear to be natural cleavages in the rock, but which he interprets as pieces of rock that were intentionally placed 10,000 to 15,000 years ago, based on the age of the overlaying soil. Even Robert Schoch recognizes that these slabs are natural cleavages and breaks, not artificial constructions.

Dr. Henry Chapman, an actual archaeologist from the University of Birmingham and a former cast member of the Time Team (2002-2011)—from which I remember him—is an expert in prehistoric Europe. He scoffs at Osmanagich’s “random” methodology. Chapman explains that Europeans of 10,000 BCE were hunter-gatherers, and no evidence of large monuments has been discovered. The narrator, however, undercuts Chapman by introducing into evidence Göbekli Tepe, the 11,500-year-old Turkish monumental site composed of ten-foot-tall stone pillars, which the narrator says proves “Stone Age hunter gatherers were capable of creating sophisticated [architecture] thousands of years earlier than had previously been thought.” Frequent use of adjectives like “huge” implies a similarity between the ten-foot stones in Turkey and the allegedly 700-foot-tall pyramids in Bosnia which the orders of magnitude in difference fail to support.

The show admits that excavations around Egypt’s pyramids revealed enormous amounts of organization and support services for hordes of workers, but Chapman explains that nothing similar was found in Bosnia. The narrator, however, will have none of it. “Without excavating any of the surrounding area, the archaeological establishment are quick to label Semir [Osmanagich]’s find ‘a cruel hoax,’ and some geologists question if he’s even found pyramids at all.” The anti-establishment tone of the sentence is in direct contradiction to the show’s professed claim (expressed to me by a producer last year) that the show remains neutral and takes no position on its stories.

Dr. Dougal Jerram, a geologist who is best known as a television presenter, declares that his expert opinion is that the Bosnian pyramids are simply “natural phenomena,” but the show does not let him explain why until after the break, when Jerram describes the way layers of sedimentary rock form what are called “flatirons” due to the triangle shape eroded spikes of uplifted rock form. Osmanagich, however, dismisses this explanation because he does not understand how stones crack and fracture and finds it difficult to believe that they could do so in geometric shapes rather than in random zigzags.

Osmanagich takes the crew underground, to where he is literally mining his way through the alleged pyramid, hauling out cart after cart of rock and soil to reveal what Osmanagich claims are ancient “tunnels” but which Chapman believes are Osmanagich’s own invention, created not by ancient people but by Osmanagich’s own excavations. The “walls” and the “fill,” Chapman said, are indistinguishable; therefore, Osmanagich is seeing what he wants to see. Osmanagich points to large piles of rocks and calls them tunnel walls, but nothing about them appears artificial. The rocks are rounded, for one, and they look for all the world like natural deposits.

The narrator though appears to want us to take Osmanagić’s side. The narration likens the tunnels to the chambers beneath Egyptian pyramids and then repeats a fringe history canard that we cannot know Egyptian pyramids were truly meant to be tombs since only three mummies were ever found within pyramids. These lines have no purpose in the show except to emphasize a spurious similarity between Egypt and Osmanagich’s imaginary pyramids, which contain no tombs—and no cultural material whatsoever, except… well, wait for it.

As we enter the second-to-last segment of the Bosnian pyramid half of the episode, Osmanagich introduces us to the only “evidence” of human culture within these alleged pyramids. They are a series of large, rounded, and eroded stones he calls “megaliths” but which look like completely natural rocks. They were sly that way, those ancient builders. Osmanagić explains that the water which flows under the pyramids releases “negative ions” that “activates the quartz crystal” in the large megaliths, which then begin their “vibration” to “generate electromagnetic fields, which can be measured with our scientific instruments, so it seems that these megaliths are actually technology. And the pyramid is actually a huge energy amplifier.”

For support, the show turns to Robert Lomas, whom the narrator describes as a “physicist” but declines to inform readers is a conspiracy theorist who believes an ancient cult of Freemasons has operated since prehistory, and that Nikola Tesla was a suppressed super-genius. Freemasons have dismissed Lomas’s work as an elaborate hoax, but it is true that he holds a 1972 Ph.D. in solid state physics. Lomas has a potential conflict of interest in evaluating Osmanagich and his work since his claims about Freemasons partially contradict with those of Osmanagich. (Lomas believes Masonry holds spiritual Egyptian and Jesus Bloodline secrets, but Osmanagich connects the group to space aliens and world domination.) More to the point, many of the claims Lomas makes about prehistory seem to contradict those of Osmanagich—let us note that Lomas believes that the ancients that survived the Flood (caused by comet fragments) in underground bunkers due to warnings from precision observatories like Stonehenge— giving him motive for dismissing the claims of Osmanagich. Lomas, when not chronicling Freemason conspiracies, also writes on the Neolithic period, and adding a lost high tech, possibly extraterrestrial, culture prior to that would undermine his work. The show does not address this concern.

Lomas dismisses Osmanagich’s claims about the pyramid as an energy source as ridiculous since, he says, while water always generates an EMF field in the presence of quartz, there is no way to pump water through the alleged pyramid. Osmanagich, though, assumes that the quartz got charged up in the basement and passed its charge along a network of quartz veins running throughout the pyramids. This would seem to contradict his idea that the rocks were artificially arranged from quarried stone, since it implies that the ancients embedded veins of quartz in each block and arranged them so they would connect with no breaks. How might that work?

As we finish up, a Croatian scientist named Slobodan Mizdrak tests the pyramid for electrical anomalies. He is introduced as a physicist, but I can find no confirmation of this, or any reference to him outside of fringe claims about the Bosnian pyramid and fringe websites. He is a consultant for the Association of Nikola Tesla: Genius for the Future. He appears to be a fringe believer in imaginary electrical phenomena based on Tesla’s wireless electricity imaginings, from scattered references online. According to his own website, unreported by Science Channel, Mizdrak believes that we need to saturate our air with silver ions to protect our bodies from disease (silver has some antiseptic properties), that we can collect free energy from radio waves surrounding us, and that you should pay him for his actual primary business—computer backup services.

Mizdrak also credits Erich von Däniken as his inspiration and guide!

He first conducted his pyramid electrical experiment in 2012 and claimed to have found an “energy beam” beneath the pyramid, a claim he repeats here. However, Mizdrak also claims that the “energy beam” grows stronger the farther away from the hill one goes, which would seem to imply that the source—of whatever the magnetic anomaly is, should it really exist—lies not within the hill but somewhere else. Instead, Mizdrak declares that amazing new physics are at work that he cannot explain.

The show finishes with the claim that more than 90% of pyramids worldwide are also energy beam production facilities that vibrate on the same frequency. Despite the show’s claims to neutrality, not a single contrary word is spoken, nor does the show acknowledge that the supposedly independent Mizdrak, introduced as an expert unrelated to Osmanagich, has been working with Osmanagich since 2010 on the pyramids and is an ancient astronaut theorist, like his friend, Osmanagich, who appears from time to time on Ancient Aliens.

Osmanagich claims he’ll get a true construction date for the pyramid by dating the fossil impression of a leaf he found in a rock on the hillside. He claims he radiocarbon dated the fossilized leaf impression to 29,200 years before present. How does one radiocarbon date an impression in a rock? There’s nothing organic about a rock impression. The show quietly admits that no one has verified the claims, but the narration glosses over this quickly to get to the point where Osmanagich tells us that space aliens or inter-dimensional travelers must have built the energy beams because they predate the earliest human civilizations. (No, this does not follow logically—but who uses logic here?) The narrator concludes that “no one can be certain” whether space aliens built energy beams into the pyramids or whether the whole thing is just a big pile of naturally occurring dirt. Since the last skeptic spoke ten minutes earlier, we know which side the producers want you to come down on.

76 Comments
A.D.
9/3/2014 06:13:48 am

Can't believe people still buy into that hoax.All the crazies and delusional racist that attracts it should be a clue.

Reply
666
9/3/2014 08:16:27 am

>>>Can't believe people still buy into that hoax

That's it. "People" is the operative word.
Not hoax.

Reply
Scott Hamilton
9/3/2014 06:45:23 am

I'm actually a little curious which Siberian lake monster they did. The new star on the block, Lake Labynkyr? Or the old standard, Lake Khainyr, which was said to have a monster verified by a "Moscow scientist" even though the lake is less than 20 feet deep? Probably the former, I'm guessing. Modern cryptozoology doesn't have much of a memory.

Reply
Only Me
9/3/2014 08:08:15 am

This was the most painful segment I've ever forced myself to watch. It's abundantly clear Semir "Is Pyramid!" Osmanagich wants Bosnia to become the new cradle of civilization in the eyes of the world.

First, the "pyramids" are from 10,000-15,000 years ago. Oh no! Along comes Göbekli Tepe! Okay, damn it, he found a.... fossilized leaf impression that "dates" to over 29,000 years ago! Naturally, this leaf fell to the ground to leave the impression, at the exact same time the "pyramids" were being built by hunter-gatherers that most likely still sought shelter in caves, if they were available.

Once he started throwing in aliens, interdimensional beings, stone-based technology, unexplainable energy emissions, etc., I knew the turkey was done.

By comparison, I found the segment on the Lake Labynkyr serpent to be replete with credibility. Sad, is it not?

Reply
666
9/3/2014 08:25:30 am

>>>>First, the "pyramids" are from 10,000-15,000 years ago

So where's the reference?
You're not the source

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/3/2014 08:33:48 am

You are aware, aren't you, that Only Me is referring to the claim made on the program, and sarcastically? He was making fun of Osmanagich's frequent efforts to revise the date of the so-called pyramid to keep it older than anything else.

EP
9/3/2014 10:29:11 am

You're spot-on about this being a nationalistic thing (with some hopes for tourism dollars thrown in).

Reply
Thomas Turk
8/2/2018 10:07:22 am

..aliens eh? Nasa. seti, astronomers, ufologist and you have to´told us no such thing. Yet, millions of intelligent, open minded sould have reached theyfly.com, Swiss et contactee Meier's site. Based on that we have The Pleiadian Mission by R Winters that inbrms that the Ciza Pyramids were built in 71,344BC. The Far Site Institute remote viewers 'noted' that the Giza Pyramid granite etc was cut by androids due to the intense heat generated by the 'machines'. used. Am I a nutter off the meds? Nah, just a Rtd. Airline Training Capt. with multiple ufo/ifo sightings.

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Only Me
9/3/2014 10:11:09 am

Here's an interesting finding.

http://beforeitsnews.com/beyond-science/2013/04/30000-year-old-bosnian-pyramids-built-with-man-made-cement-2441772.html

Concerning the underground megaliths, "Megalithic blocks in the underground tunnel network have carved symbols that have been covered by conglomerate material for more than 30,000 years according to the radiocarbon dating."

Also:
"Facts that have been verified by scientific analytic testing include:

· The Sun pyramid stands over 722 feet (220 m) high one third taller than the Great Pyramid of Giza
· Radio carbon dating shows the pyramid to be at least 24,800 years old
· Material Analysis shows that the structure is from man-made concrete
· There is an 8,000 kg ceramic block under the pyramid in the underground labyrinth
· An energy beam, electromagnetic in nature with a radius of 4.5 meters and a frequency of 28 kHz, has been detected and measured coming from the top of the Sun pyramid
· An ultrasound beam with a radius of 10 meters and frequency of 28-33 kHz has been measured on the top of the pyramid, as well
· The pyramids are aligned with the earth’s cardinal points and oriented to stellar North"

How strange Robert Schoch has gone on record saying, "The much-touted “ancient inscriptions” seem not to be ancient at all. I was told by a reliable source that the inscriptions were not there when members of the 'pyramid team' initially entered the tunnels less than two years ago. The 'ancient inscriptions' had been added since, perhaps non-maliciously, or perhaps as a downright hoax." This was in The New Archaeology Review vol. 1.8, pp. 16-17, September 2006.




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EP
9/3/2014 12:07:06 pm

"The Sun pyramid stands over 722 feet (220 m) high"

SCIENCE!!!

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Only Me
9/3/2014 12:17:26 pm

I know science can be blinding (thanks, Thomas Dolby!), but they haven't addressed how megaliths *inside* the alleged pyramid(s) were carved over 5,000 years *before* the pyramid(s) were constructed.

EP
9/3/2014 12:29:05 pm

Wait, the megaliths *inside* the pyramids? I thought they were a separate thing:

http://www.bosnianpyramids.org/index.php?id=38&lang=en

Only Me
9/3/2014 12:36:23 pm

Osmanagich thinks the tunnels beneath the pyramids, where the megaliths are found, is part of the pyramid complex. I should have said beneath, not inside.

EP
9/3/2014 12:47:23 pm

I'm sure the answer to all these questions is "post-Apocalyptic".

They still had the "knowledge", but not the "tools", so they could build a gigantic, ionizing pyramid with a magical energy beam, but they couldn't make the pyramid's shape less crude.

This is arguably the most pathetic argument I've read all year.

Titus pullo
9/3/2014 11:34:10 am

I caught the episode right before on the baby mummified alien in Russia. That was so bad I changed to sports center to hear about what johnny manziel had for dinner.

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MBK
9/10/2014 05:05:23 am

I turned it off during the mummified alien in Russia as well. I don't think I'll be turning it back on.

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EP
9/3/2014 12:10:18 pm

Somehow, The Unexplained Files manages to be the most contemptible of all these shows. Forget the stupid Bosnian pyramids - they are telling people that Morgellons is a real disease (and people who take them seriously are an at-risk group).

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BillUSA
9/3/2014 12:14:13 pm

Bosnian pyramids, eh?

What's next? That ancient people stood idly by as aliens used their own Tunnel Boring Machines to excavate lava tubes around Mount Kilauea in order to hide their cache of gold?

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Only Me
9/3/2014 12:21:26 pm

No one will ever know, because the obsidian spearheads used to mark the way were contracted to Mexico. That fell through when Lord Pacal said, "Screw you guys, I'm going home!"...and left in his version of Rickety Rocket. :)

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Kal
9/3/2014 12:26:16 pm

Are these fringe show 'experts' on crack? No really, ancient pyramids with beams coming out of them, energy beams? Is it like the plot of an L Ron Hubbard book? Yikes.

Yes there could have been ancient civilizations before us, but we're not going to dig up their stuff because it's long gone. Bosnia must be hard up for tourism.

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EP
9/3/2014 12:34:37 pm

I really hope some crazy Bosnians show up in this thread to defend their country's honor.

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JaredMithrandir link
9/3/2014 01:54:35 pm

"that Nazis secretly run America"

I'd remove only the secretly part, it's actually no secret that Hitler would have been nothing without the financial support of Rich and Powerful Americans like Prescott Bush.

So it's not that Nazis took over America, it's that the Nazis were how America took over Germany. They we went to war with the Evil we created to prop up the Military Industrial Complex., after FDR provoked the Japanese and allowed them to attack Pear Harbor.

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EP
9/3/2014 03:01:20 pm

A post by JaredMythrandir containing not a single true statement? It's more likely than you think...

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Only Me
9/3/2014 05:43:27 pm

Or, to put it more bluntly, everything this guy says is bullshit.

Pacal
9/3/2014 03:30:51 pm

The Bosnian Pyramid hoax is so threadbare has to be compulsively funny. Since the show The Unexplained Files seems to be little more than transparent mystery mongering that amounts to systematic lying. I will give the show a miss.

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EP
9/3/2014 04:01:48 pm

Also, their opening theme blatantly rips off The X-Files.

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Jennifer Cox
9/4/2014 04:27:15 pm

Apparent radiocarbon dates in the range of 25,000 to 30,000 years or older are typical of million-year old fossils that have been altered by the diagentic processes that have formed them. Because of this alteration, whatever carbon they not contain is not their original carbon but rather is a mixture of ancient and modern carbon derived from local groundwater that flows through the porous sedimentary rocks that contain fossils like the leaf fossil “dated” by Osmanagich. Young Earth creationists (YECs), like Osmanagich, have made a hobby of dating highly altered dinosaur bones from Texas, Alaska, Colorado, Montana, and elsewhere and getting apparent dates of 22,000 to 39,000 years BP and older. The pseudoscientific nature of such dating by YECs, which is applicable to Osmanagich, is discussed in “Radiocarbon Dates for Dinosaur Bones? A Critical Look at Recent Creationist Claims” by Bradley T. Lepper and “Radiocarbon Dating Dinosaur Bones: More Pseudoscience from Creationists.” by Thomas W. Stafford Jr. in Issue 30, Summer 1992, of “Creation/Evolution” (National Center for Science Education) at either http://ncse.com/files/pub/CEJ/pdfs/CEJ_30.pdf , http://ncse.com/cej/12/1/issue-30-summer-1992 , or http://www.unz.org/Pub/CreationEvolution-1992q1

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Jennifer Cox (correction)
9/4/2014 04:43:57 pm

In the above text of mine need correction, I meant to write:

"Because of this alteration, whatever carbon they contain is not entirely their original carbon but rather is a mixture of ancient and modern carbon derived from local groundwater that flows through the porous sedimentary rocks that contain fossils like the leaf fossil “dated” by Osmanagich." Somehow a "not" was misplaced in that sentence. In reference to Osmanagich's dates, another paper to look at is "Errors in the Pre-Holocene C-14 Scale" by Frank W. Stapor and W. F. Tanner in vol. 23, pp. 351-354 (1973) of "Transactions: Gulf Coast Association of Geological Societies" at http://archives.datapages.com .

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Nenad M. Djurdjevic link
9/5/2014 06:33:11 am

The Concept of the Primordial Pyramid

The archaeological record has shown that in many ancient cultures the construction of sacred mountains incorporated substantial mass from natural hills, a highly efficient building method. Because in pyramid cultures the most important metaphor in human construction was the hill, the primordial pyramid should not be understood as simply a cultural design or mental template imposed upon a natural landscape or existing natural landmark, but rather as the acknowledgment of a necessary relationship between natural and artificial forms.

A polarized debate over natural features versus man-made is both unnecessary and self-defeating.

Sincerely,

Nenad M. Djurdjevic

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EP
9/5/2014 08:47:24 am

How about a "polarized debate" against pseudo-scientific fraud in service of pernicious ideologies and personal enrichment? Is that okay? Because my impression was that it's what we're doing over here.

Also, the substance of your post strikes me as fanciful speculation. Would you care to justify some of the claims you're making? (Or at least to tell us what your sources are?)

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Nenad M. Djurdjevic link
9/6/2014 12:32:56 pm

EP, your statements and allegations are completely out of context.

The pyramid builders of the Visoko valley gave great importance to the natural landscape. Surrounded by earthen hills, stone, natural caves, and water, they must have attributed to the landscape enormous power and deep meaning.

Archaeological records from Mesoamerican sites show many examples of pyramids built by the methods of enlarging and partially terracing natural hills. The El Duende pyramid in Guatemala is one of many pyramids giving the impression of a single massive structure, and in which the close relationship between natural and constructed forms is evident.

Please let me suggest you a good read on pyramid architecture and sacred landscape:

Archaeologies of Landscape: Contemporary Perspectives
Wendy Ashmore (Editor), A. Bernard Knapp (Editor)
ISBN: 978-0-631-21106-8
August 1999, Wiley-Blackwell

Have a good scientific day!

EP
9/6/2014 12:51:12 pm

You may act like a scientist all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that you've teamed up with the likes of Jock Doubleday in order to market a pseudoscientific tourist attraction.

As for your claims, archaeological records from Mesoamerican sites are irrelevant when archaeological records from the BOSNIAN site fail to show any prehistoric construction. (By "archaeological records" I mean what has been found by real archaeologists upon careful examination, not expat busybodies and a veritable panopticon of fringe "researchers". Do you have children? If Jock Doubleday had his way by now they'd probably be dead of once-eradicated diseases.)

Your fantasies about the mental lives of imaginary pyramid builders show that you lack capacity to distinguish fiction, wishful thinking, conjecture, and established fact (I'm assuming you're not just a scam artist). Unfortunately, there are enough people like you who are willing to pay a few hundred dollars to fund your continuing disfigurement of the landscape.

Nenad M. Djurdjevic link
9/6/2014 02:02:53 pm

EP,

I can team-up with whomever I like. If you don't like it that's your problem!

You preconfectioned statemtents won't change the fact that in Old Europe everything is older than in your country.

lol

EP
9/6/2014 02:12:50 pm

Oooh! "Preconfectioned"? What's the word you're trying to translate into English? (And you have no idea which country I'm from.)

Go ahead. Keep associating with anti-vaccination charlatans and faith healers. The more you do, the easier it is to expose your whole affair to public ridicule. (I'm sure Bosnian health care system can handle outbreaks of deadly childhood diseases no one has experience in treating any more.)

Also, keep pissing me off - so I have even more impetus to dig through your dung heap for incriminating evidence.

EP
9/6/2014 03:35:18 pm

Mr. Djurdjevic, you may not realize it yet, but a compliment from Dickey (AKA ".") is a lot more damning than anything I could say.

A Citizen of the World
9/9/2014 10:48:36 am

The last thing anyone who is Bosnian needs is a string
of insults slamming at them for the act of restoring a
set of scholarly standards after the sectarian violence
that went through. His colleges are making legitimate
inquiries and are keeping to the scientific method. The
pyramid in question has only barely been dug into. This
is not like the commercial interests grabbing bucketfuls
of material from an ancient Yucatan pyramid for road fill.
Precisely the oipposite is happening at that site, indeed!

EP
9/9/2014 11:09:56 am

Read the thread and the pages linked in it before making claims about keeping to scientific method.

Last thing Bosnia needs is surrendering its dignity to scammers and ignoramuses for the sake of a few tourism Euros and a quick boost to national pride.

A Reader
9/10/2014 03:21:41 am

Yale as a university was recently ranked just below Harvard
and Princeton on a list with the best colleges and universities
on it. The judgement call by the Yale professor is premature.

Only Me
9/5/2014 11:57:06 am

Mr. Djurdjevic, you just stated the alleged pyramid complex was constructed from natural hills/mountains in that area. Then explain how Osmanagich can make the following claims with such authority:

1) Use of man-made concrete (prior to the Romans).
2) Incorporating quartz veins in the design to transform the "pyramid" into a free-energy transmitter.
3) Alignment to the cardinal points and stellar North
4) The 8K kilogram ceramic block under the "pyramid". What, is naturally formed ceramic THAT abundant in Bosnia?
5) The age discrepancy of the carvings on the underground megaliths, compared to the proposed age of the "pyramid". What was their purpose *before* becoming part of the free-energy production plan? There is a 5,200 year gap between them.
6) How did the people constructing this complex know about electromagnetic and ultrasound energy...enough to build the "pyramids" in such a way they are *still* emitting this energy to this day?

If you can answer these questions, please, do not insult the intelligence of the blog's readership with hypotheses containing aliens, interdimensional beings, rock technology or anything equally preposterous.

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EP
9/5/2014 12:41:07 pm

"How did the people constructing this complex know about electromagnetic and ultrasound energy..."

...yet didn't know how to build a more symmetrical pyramid?

Only Me
9/5/2014 04:04:14 pm

EP, that last comment is especially troublesome for the "man-made concrete" element of Osmanagich's hypothesis.

Consider the Romans, absolute masters of concrete superior to what we use today, built an entire harbor at Caesarea Maritima, using their version of hydraulic cement. Somehow, Osmanagich's prime suspects, the Illyrians, built his "pyramids" with man-made concrete, from sacred hills/mountains (as proposed by Mr. Djurdjevic)...but apparently lacked the engineering skill to make them look like proper pyramids.

Of course, the idea the Illyrians made them, illustrates Osmanagich's tendency to frequently revise the date of said "pyramids". So far, we have:

Illyrians = 12,000-500 BC [the pyramid was therefore most likely constructed between those two dates; Osmanagich interview with Philip Coppens in Nexus (April–May 2006)]

Overlaying soil = 10,000-15,000 years ago
Leaf impression = 29,200 years ago
Megalith radiocarbon date = 30,000 years ago
"Pyramid" of the Sun radiocarbon date = 24,800 years ago

Which is it folks?

EP
9/5/2014 04:44:58 pm

Only Me, we need to be careful here. Legitimate scientists revise their conclusions all the time, and do not always acknolwledge such revisions (especially not in popular expositions). That by itself is not illegitimate. In order to demonstrate inconsistency we need to find statements that are clearly simultaneously endorsed.

On the other hand, actually comparing numbers is already giving too much credit to people who assert the worst things for the worst reasons...

Only Me
9/5/2014 05:14:09 pm

I agree. I'm just trying to demonstrate the lengths Osmanagich is willing to go to keep his "pyramids" as the oldest example of human engineering, in comparison to such well-documented sites as Stonehenge, Giza or even competitors like Göbekli Tepe.

If he actually had something, I'd chalk up the revisions to further progress on available archaeological evidence. As it stands, there are too many red flags for what he's offered thus far.

EP
9/5/2014 06:07:52 pm

Right, but everyone knows that. The areas that could potentially lead to revelations are, in my opinion, testing them for plagiarism and looking into sponsors and beneficiaries of the whole affair.

(Also, I just found this awesome picture of von Daniken at a website they link to: http://www.daniken.com/pics/dendera.gif)

Only Me
9/5/2014 06:27:37 pm

Wait, how is EvD using a lighter in there? Tsoukalos said you couldn't use a lighter, he tried it himself!

EP
9/5/2014 06:41:12 pm

It's from a different place and time. Von Daniken is much younger and in Egypt :)

I'm looking at the people connected to the Bosnian pyramids (beyond the ones mentioned by Jason). They include this woman:
http://www.carcafriculture.org/catherine.htm
and this asshole:
http://skepacabra.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/jock-doubleday-douchebag-hall-of-famer/

Also, they may be ignoring, misplacing and destroying fossils while "excavating":
http://www.bosnian-pyramid.org/antiscience-rmscd/

Nenad N. Djurdjevic link
9/6/2014 01:32:56 pm

Only Me,

Usually I don't reply to rude people. However, here are my answers:

1) Archaeological discoveries related to the production of concrete and particular techniques of modelling stones are known from different places around the world. For example, in Syria, Nabataeans developed waterproof cement centuries before its use became common in ancient Rome. In Old Europe, archaeological evidence for early use of concrete is also found from along the banks of the Danube River in Serbia, where in approximately 5600 B.C.E. it was used to make floors for huts. Similar evidence was found at the archaeological site of Yiftahel near Haifa, in Israel, where a pre-pottery Neolithic culture used rock and mud to construct walls and concrete for the floors almost 10.000 years ago.

2) I never made such a claim. In fact, my opinion on the 24 kHZ ultrasound frequency beam coming out of the top of Bosnia's Sun Pyramid is completely different than that of Dr. Osmanagic.

My opinion is the same as that of the ancient Greeks who rationalized the notion of the Central Fire, also known as "The Fire in the Middle" (from Greek "pyramidos").

You can find the explanation in the last pages of my paper "The Ancestral Origin of Stecaks" (http://www.academia.edu/1494327/The_Ancestral_Origin_of_Stecaks)

3) Yes, the Bosnian pyramid of the sun is aligned to the four cardinal directions (N-S E-W). Please use Google Earth to check the information.

4) Many of the megalithic blocks in Visoko but also elsewhere in Bosnia show typical features of artificial stonework.

The Plasticine-like surface and smooth flanks of the monumental stonework as well as several stone spheres found in Bosnia is often an indication of an artificial origin. One of the main difficulties encountered by geologists in the analysis of these stones is that of reaching a general consensus and mutual understanding. Scenes of geologists animatedly discussing about the possible origins of the stone blocks or stone spheres occurred quiet frequently in Visoko. It appears obvious that for many of them, who don't have a general background knowledge on ancient construction methods, Bosnian monumental stoneworks still represent an unfathomable mystery.

For a person like me, who has a pluriennal professional experience in the field of Geotechnical Engineering, Geotechnics, as well as in the restoration of historic buildings, it was quiet easy to identify the artificial origin of the stone blocks at Sonda 20 on Bosnia's Moon Pyramid as well as those of Sonda 4 on Bosnia's Sun Pyramid. For example, the architectural layout of the stone blocks and plates of the Moon Pyramid at Sonda 20 is IDENTICAL to those found in the historical Italian town where I live.

5) As previously mentioned, I'm not a proponent of the "Free Energy" theory.

You may not know, but the different archaeological sites in Visoko where inhabited by different cultures during different time periods. Underground tunnel building in the Balkans is very old. In fact, in the Balkans (for example in Serbia) are found one the oldest underground structures in the world. In the Balkans, for example, there are mines dating back between 30,000 and 40,000 years.

Old European cultures are one of the oldest and most advanced of the prehistoric era dating back as far as 7000 BCE. In Visoko German archaeologists from the DAI unearthed a votive pyramid dating back to the 5th millenium BCE. Such pyramid votives were also found in Hungary and Northen Greece. These pyramid votives predate Egyptian pyramid votives as well as the oldest Egyptian pyramid for several millennia.

6) The answer is consciousness. People of Old Europe including Bosnia lived in higher states of consciousness, lived with knowledge. They were much more advanced than we are today contrary to our arrogant belief that we at present are the crown of creation. Modern humans have sunk down to the level of worms in knowledge and spirituality, in ethics and morals, in mental and physical health.

Sincerely,

Nenad M. Djurdjevic

EP
9/6/2014 01:43:22 pm

"Modern humans have sunk down to the level of worms in knowledge and spirituality, in ethics and morals, in mental and physical health."

Given that you deal with Osmanagic's cronies and victims, I don't blame you for feeling this way.

Only Me, go get 'em, tiger! :)

Only Me
9/6/2014 03:28:24 pm

Mr. Djurdjevic, claiming someone is rude, when they ask questions highlighting the contradictions of a hypothesis you support, says far more about you than it does me. Try to be mature about this, okay?

1) While your examples are factually true, none of them fall within the timeframe of the Pyramid of the Sun. 6500 BC for the Nabataeans versus 24,800-30,000 years for the "pyramid".

2) I didn't say *you* made the claim. Your attempt at distraction is noted.

3) In an earlier comment that contained an article about your "pyramids", it stated the specific claim [The pyramids are aligned with the earth’s cardinal points and oriented to stellar North.]
Notice the plural? Pyramids. As in, all five of them are aligned, as described above.

4) If so many of the megaliths are of "artificial origin", then it should be easy for someone "who has pluriennal professional experience" to propose the technique(s) used to make them. BTW, you're the one who doesn't want a debate over natural features versus man-made. So why are such man-made objects being used to support the argument the "pyramids" were *constructed*, not naturally formed?

5) Bosnian-pyramid.org is the main site talking about votive pyramids. The few I could find that aren't part of your site are the typical providers of fringe beliefs. The rest of your non-answer is noted.

6) I didn't ask you what you believed. It will remain a belief, a fantasy of ancestral greatness, until there is archaeological evidence to the contrary.

In a nutshell, you did not adequately address the discrepancies that have been revealed and attempted to play the old bait-and-switch a couple of times. You have not made a convincing argument.

You don't have to reply to me again. It grieves me to know you have to suffer the doubt of mean people who require extraordinary evidence for an extraordinary claim.

EP
9/6/2014 03:32:43 pm

And let's not mince words: You're asking us to throw away pretty much the entirety of the contemporary hard-won scientific view of the world and humanity's history within it because some bumps in the ground kinda remind you of pyramids.

J.A Dickey
9/6/2014 04:18:11 pm

Think of all students of Aristotle who had to almost jettison
useless lore when Newton's Principia arrived. Newton in turn
had students of his who were Social Darwinists who were very
upset as the vastly superior ideas of Albert Einstein built on
the ideas of the Pagans, the North African Enlightenment,
the Italian Renaissance & Granada, and finally the 1700s
advances as the turbulent illogical primal impulses of the
Romanticists did restructured a more Utopian social order.
Given that school districts now feud over purchasing textbooks
from Texas or New York State, I must apologize if the very expensive books need to be modified again for all of the
students of tomorrow. I think this is the fate we endure when we agree to the Scientific Method. Otherwise we are complacent.

EP
9/5/2014 06:44:25 pm

Also, Nenad M. Djurdjevic cites THIS FUCKING GUY:

http://registered.greyschool.com/index.php?module=Faculty&func=display&uid=28

Yeah...

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Only Me
9/5/2014 07:04:46 pm

Aside from the article by Doubleday you provided, how did you find out these people were connected?

I'm still amused by the pseudo-JREF challenge and especially the "Professor of Ceremonial Magick".

EP
9/5/2014 07:12:15 pm

Simple: I looked at the authors of various articles on the website Mr. Djurdjevic kindly linked us to. (There is also... this thing: http://www.interferencetheory.com/)

Right now I'm going through the sponsors and donors lists on the main website. (Also, check out how you can sign up to do the dirty work while contributing to the local economy: http://piramidasunca.ba/eng/mrav/item/9052-mrav-2014.html)

Jock Doubleday is a vaccine denialist and as such has contributed to people actually dying and to making the world less safe for us all.

EP
9/5/2014 07:13:20 pm

And Doubleday has a whole blog dedicated to these Bosnian follies:

http://anamericaninbosnia.blogspot.it/

Nenad M. Djurdjevic link
9/6/2014 01:44:39 pm

EP,

You shouldn't judge people based on appearances and your preconceptions.

The sources mentioned by that guy you don't like are usually from historians like British scholar of Presocratic philosophy Peter Kingsley.

Prof. Kingsley graduated with honors from the University of Lancaster, England, in 1975, Peter Kingsley went on to receive the degree of Master of Letters from King's College Cambridge before being awarded a PhD by the University of London. He has worked together with many of the most prominent figures in the fields of classics and anthropology, philosophy and religious studies, ancient civilizations and the history of both healing and science. The recipient of numerous academic awards, he holds honorary positions at universities in England, Canada, the United States.

See: https://www.peterkingsley.org/aboutpeterkingsley.cfm

And you?

EP
9/6/2014 01:51:44 pm

Which "guy I don't like"? I don't like any of you.

I wish to remain anonymous and have no desire to impress the likes of you with my credentials. I'll just say that where I come from Kingsley's credentials don't look impressive at all.

Also, perhaps you'd come across less ridiculous if you'd pick an "authority" with expertise more relevant to what you're actually purporting to investigate. (Because guess what? Magic isn't real.)

Nenad M. Djurdjevic link
9/6/2014 02:05:44 pm

EP,

you don't like me?

OMG, No, I won't sleep tonight.

:-)

EP
9/6/2014 02:15:44 pm

EP (09/03/2014 7:34pm): "I really hope some crazy Bosnians show up in this thread to defend their country's honor."

Called it!

Apollo
9/8/2014 08:39:00 am

Yes and No.
He is polite.
He is not at
all into our
BACCHUS.
Dionysus

EP
9/5/2014 06:11:07 pm

For those who haven't visited Slobodan Mizdrak's website, it does the kind of violence to the English language I've only encountered on tourist signs in Thailand:

"This page is intended to all intelligent visitors.
Data you can find here is nested with good will and we take all responsibility, with our soul on sake. So The Great Divinity helps us!
There is intention of showing the truth – maybe trough our eyes – but sincere and from heart.
Please if you find something you suspect that is untruth or with bad attitude contact us immediately.
We will do all effort to rectify err."

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EP
9/6/2014 09:07:30 am

Anyone interested in more about the Bosnian pyramids should visit this website:

http://irna.lautre.net/-Bosnian-pyramids-.html

Warning: Contents are pretty depressing.

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Peter
9/6/2014 09:52:11 am

Sorry but he's not 'literally mining' they are shovelling loose material into wheelbarrows to clear obvious tunnels. I've volunteered there and I have photos of the front end and spades. Volunteer and see for yourself, it was great fun.

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EP
9/6/2014 10:06:28 am

So you stayed at Piramida Sunca, then? Because "Only volunteers accommodated at the motel Piramida Sunca will have the volonteer’s status."

Did you get a Certificate of Participation as well? Did you frame it?

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Nenad M. Djurdjevic link
9/6/2014 02:09:46 pm

Peter,

You are right, these underground tunnels are just great. And they are among the oldest, if not the oldest in world ;-)

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EP
9/6/2014 02:13:56 pm

If by "oldest in the world" you mean "2006-"...

See what I did there? ;)

Truth
9/11/2014 08:33:23 am

Can we all debate 6002 B.C verses A.D 2006 ???

i like dates older than 6000 B.C for the very ancient
areas in that valley. Mount Etna in 6000 B.C erupted.

EP
9/6/2014 04:07:01 pm

Since we're experiencing a bit of a language barrier, I thought a handy reference could be of use.

"the primordial pyramid should not be understood as simply a cultural design or mental template imposed upon a natural landscape or existing natural landmark, but rather as the acknowledgment of a necessary relationship between natural and artificial forms."

TRANSLATION: I'm too much of a coward to come out and say that I believe in these pyramids in spite of the fact that they don't even really *look* all that artificial.

"A polarized debate over natural features versus man-made is both unnecessary and self-defeating."

TRANSLATION: Please don't question our baseless claim that the so-called Bosnian pyramids were built by impossibly ancient magical people!

"The pyramid builders of the Visoko valley gave great importance to the natural landscape. Surrounded by earthen hills, stone, natural caves, and water, they must have attributed to the landscape enormous power and deep meaning."

TRANSLATION: If I say enough New-Agey things, these Westerners will buy anything! Come on, it works on our "volunteers"! No? Tough crowd!

"Have a good scientific day!"

TRANSLATION: Please pay no attention to the fact that I publish Afrocentrists and anti-vaccination quacks, as well as engage in character assassination of the critics of the pyramids!

"You preconfectioned statemtents won't change the fact that in Old Europe everything is older than in your country."

TRANSLATION: Noz, zica, Srebrenica!... Errr... sorry... wrong crazy nationalists...

"Usually I don't reply to rude people."

TRANSLATION: I'm not used to people actually questioning my fringe views and I don't understand how rational discourse works.

"My opinion is the same as that of the ancient Greeks"

TRANSLATION: I don't believe in progress.

"People of Old Europe including Bosnia lived in higher states of consciousness, lived with knowledge. They were much more advanced than we are today contrary to our arrogant belief that we at present are the crown of creation. Modern humans have sunk down to the level of worms in knowledge and spirituality, in ethics and morals, in mental and physical health."

TRANSLATION: I don't believe in progress.

"For a person like me, who has a pluriennal professional experience in the field of Geotechnical Engineering, Geotechnics, as well as in the restoration of historic buildings, it was quiet easy to identify the artificial origin of the stone blocks at Sonda 20"

TRANSLATION: Maybe if I use fancy Romance words they'll be impressed?!... Also, I have more confidence in my expertise than in the consensus of the scientific community.

"One of the main difficulties encountered by geologists in the analysis of these stones is that of reaching general consensus and mutual understanding."

TRANSLATION: ...because I refuse to admit to myself that there is such consensus and that it is that my pet project is ridiculous.

Reply
Clint Knapp
9/6/2014 06:38:44 pm

You know... I hadn't looked at this article since it was posted until EP brought it up in today's. It didn't seem possible anyone would actually try to argue in favor of these "pyramids". Seems I was wrong.

Only Me mentioned that one of Osmanagich's prime suspects are Illyrians, and I have to say... it has some merit!

I've seen first-hand that Illyrians could indeed build pyramids! They did it just the other day in a game of Civ, so it must be true. Also of note was that the Taino beat me to building the Mausoleum, the Japanese managed to construct the Hanging Gardens in Osaka, and Templars had colonies in North America in the early 2000s BCE!

(Note: I play the open-source Freeciv, with over 400 nations to choose from)

Every time I hear one of these theories pop up, I can't help but consider how much more believable they are as Civ scenarios. It helps to lessen the pain of taking a moment to investigate Illyrian history only to learn about Pan-Illyrianism and its basis in Aryanism.

Reply
EP
9/6/2014 06:44:34 pm

You had me going there for a second. Well played, Sir! :)

Reply
Sn0w
9/8/2014 02:58:04 am

Just want to share some of my observations about the electromagnetic measurements.

1. The equipment is "PERSONAL SCOPE 10MS/s" model "HPS10SE" or "HPS40", http://www.vellemanusa.com/products/view/?country=us&lang=enu&id=351263 .
That's right, this is hand held oscilloscope. It measures only the voltage of the probe.
This is not radio equipment, no tuning to frequencies or anything like that.

2. The probe seems to be wired to simple coil. I suspect that it doesn't have magnetic or ferrite core. In short it should just work like a secondary winding of a transformer.

3. We are never really shown the actual measurements. For a brief moment we are shown a sinusoid. We are told that it reads 2.2V/cm^2 . On freeze frame I can read "5us/divrun = 5mV/div 2,5mV". It is clear that the oscilloscope is set at highest sensitivity (5mV per 1 big division mark) and the reading is 2,5mV amplitude.

The funny thing is that when they show us the zero measurements before the climb (near the cars), for a brief moment we see 3; 6; 5; 4 mV readings. Then they talk about not finding even one anomaly that cannot be explained.

In other words the noise downhill is about 2-3 times stronger than the "signal" at the top!

4. There are a number of ways to fake the readings. Most obvious is having a working transformer around (phone chargers operate with small transformers at frequencies of 20-50 kHz) or even just any kind of electric device (GSM). But it doesn't even have to be that, simply having a faulty wire or touching the probe could induce interesting "noise".

5. We are never shown how the measurement changes with elevation. We are just told about it and we see that the person is almost holding the coil in hand.
We never see the readings during the fly-by with the chopper, because the chopper camera is not pointed at the HPS40 display. We are just told later what the results are. Also never mind all the induction from the chopper electric motors.

The HPS40 model does have RS232 that allows "screenshot" to be send to external computer, however this still requires pressing a button on the HPS40 device itself. I wonder how did they managed that.
The chopper cam have some additional screen in the bottom right corner, but it doesn't look like any of the possible screens of HPS40. It would have made sense if they were shooting the oscilloscope screen, but they never show it to us.

Well, just wanted to have that on record somewhere :)

Reply
EP
9/8/2014 04:33:11 am

Wow, awesome job, man! I heartily shake your internet hand! :)

Reply
Sn0w
9/11/2014 10:01:34 am

Just to add one more detail to point #3 (and maybe #4).

At first I wasn't sure if HPS40 supports automatic frequency calculation. After reading more carefully I'm convinced that it needs manually setting markers at both peaks (or slopes) to measure a period. Then it calculates the reciprocal to get the frequency (f=1/t).

This is important because when we are told that there is "signal" of 26.32kHz, we don't see any buttons been pressed. He just stares at the display and says the number.

When we are shown the sinusoid, we see it is quite compressed. The waves look almost like vertical lines. HPS40 is capable of bigger precision when sampling the input, so it can get a finer readings that would produce wider waves and thus more precise frequency measurements.

Anyway, I managed to count 46 "lines". This makes 45 wave periods (plus maybe one more incomplete).

The graph seems to be 18 division marks wide and we already know each mark is 5us. So the period of single wave is 18*5us/45=2us . The frequency is 45/(18*5us) = 1/2us = 0.5MHz .
(If we have 46 periods then we have period of 18*5us/46=1.95us and frequency of 46/(18*5us) = 1/1.95us = 0.51(1)MHz . )

So in essence the "signal" is around 500kHz (+-11). This is about 20 times higher frequency than the reported 26.32kHz.

I guess this rules out a phone charger/transformer as source of the "signal".

I checked the frequency because I spotted that HPS40 have an internal test signal of 2kHz, accessible near the batteries. I wanted to check if the observed signal is the same as the test signal.
It is not.

Reply
EP
9/11/2014 10:36:38 am

Sn0w, if you don't mind me asking, what is the nature of your technical expertise?

DS
9/21/2014 08:24:31 pm

What a great blog article! Let me summarize: 'the pyramids are not real because Osmanagic wrote this other thing in this other book (It says so in this other blog!) and I cannot find anything on Google about this physicist that at some point worked on this project. As for the tunnels, this other guy says that he believes that they are not real.'

Reply
Joshua
12/10/2014 12:50:39 am

Question to author:
How many times have you been at the actual site of so called pyramid in Bosnia?
Have you been there and have you done any scientific research?

You see, every time something is published in popular science media about those pyramids, their website gets DDOSed and taken down.
Do you find that also natural?

Here's a shocker to you:

Actual archeologists (you know, the people that actually DISCOVERED pyramids around world, including Egypt) claim, and base it on facts, that pyramids on Bosnia are natural hills which have been shaped and dug through by men to resemble a specific geometrical for typical for pyramids.

Egyptians had to build them because, guess what, they didn't have HILLS. Why build a huge rock construction in a middle of a valley surrounded by easily shape-able hills? Logic much?

Another question to author:

How many doctorates in archaeology and pyramid research do you have and how many of pyramids have you discovered so far?

In order for your hoax claims to stay, you need something valuable to prove it with, like backlog of scientific discoveries.

Your "publishings" and editorials in magazines, web portals, you-name-it media publication cannot even be close to actual scientific value of scientists and experts that have proven that these pyramids are in deed act of man.

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