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Rightwing Podcaster Attacks My Mound Builder Book as "Vile," "Bolshevist"

4/26/2021

110 Comments

 
Speaking at the Young America’s Foundation on Monday, former senator and current CNN pundit Rick Santorum raised eyebrows when he appeared to denigrate Native Americans by suggesting the United States had been terra nullius when white English colonists established the country as a Judeo-Christian religious republic. “We birthed a nation from nothing,” he said. “I mean, there was nothing here. I mean, yes we have Native Americans but candidly there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture. It was born of the people that came here.” As, should be obvious, there were Native cultures from one end of the Americas to the other prior to the colonial era. The myth of an empty continent peopled only with savages was always a bit of European propaganda used to justify colonization and conquest.
While I don’t fully endorse the claim (supported by a 1988 Senate resolution) that the U.S. Constitution was inspired by the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) Confederacy—its specifics were more directly the Roman Republic and various European systems—it is nevertheless true that the colonial generation did look to Native groups as examples of alternatives to European-style monarchy in actual living practice.
 
Santorum’s remarks are on the surface obviously wrong, but also the same myth that white Americans have bought into since the colonial era. As I documented in my book The Mound Builder Myth (University of Oklahoma, 2020), the myth of savage, uncultured Native Americans served to justify white Americans’ oppression of Native peoples and the destruction of their cultures, eventually leading to the Trail of Tears and the Indian Wars. Andrew Jackson made it quite plain when he told Congress in 1830 that he dreamed of filling the land with “a dense and civilized population in large tracts of country now occupied by a few savage hunters.” Santorum continues a very old myth, almost entirely ignorant of its origins or consequences.
 
Jackson’s description of America as a largely unoccupied wilderness came with a corollary. He believed that a lost white race has once lived on the continent, before Native Americans killed them all in a white genocide thus justifying their own extinction: “In the monuments and fortresses of an unknown people, spread over the extensive regions of the west, we behold the memorials of a once powerful race, which was exterminated, or has disappeared, to make room for the existing savage tribes.” Like Santorum, he extolled white civilization’s dominance over primitive Natives:
Philanthropy could not wish to see this continent restored to the condition in which it was found by our forefathers. What good man would prefer a country covered with forests and ranged by a few thousand savages, to our extensive republic, studded with cities, towns, and prosperous farms; embellished with all the improvements which art can devise, or industry execute; occupied by more than twelve millions of happy people, and filled with all the blessings of liberty, civilization, and religion!
The hunt for the lost white race would seemingly be confined to myth after archaeologists proved that the monuments of ancient America were the work of Native peoples. But no such lucky break prevents fake history from repeating.
 
In The Mound Builder Myth I describe how a New York talk radio personality, now podcaster, called Frank from Queens, who was once described as “racist” in New York Magazine, has embraced the myth that America had been populated by a lost white race of ancient Iberians, the Solutreans, who were massacred by Native Americans, whom he derisively calls “Beringians.” (The scientific hypothesis of Solutrean contract with ancient America is not supported by most scientists and does not involve white people since the real Solutreans lived before white skin evolved.)
 
Well, Frank discovered The Mound Builder Myth and discussed it in the April 23 episode of his rightwing podcast, TRP Show, which labeled my book a “piece of Neo-Bolsheviki trash.” Frank called my book a “vicious attack” on him (he was in a paragraph of a 300-page book) and claimed that as a member of the “radical Left” I am somehow attacking his “God-given right” to speak his mind. “Don’t attack me because I posit the Solutrean hypothesis,” he said. “I guess that’s a crime with the Left,” he added, citing Immanuel Velikovsky, the catastrophist speculator of the 1950s, as his model. He used words like “vile” to describe me before railing against the “Bolshevist scumbags” who taught him when he was in college half a century ago and going on a McCarthyite rant about communism, and it was all rather much, especially since the podcast went on for four hours. You’ll forgive me if I didn’t listen to all four hours.
 
Frank developed his own white nationalist holiday, World Solutrean Day, to coincide with Hitler’s birthday. This episode was timed to the holiday. Frank previously awarded the History Channel’s Scott Wolter the “Solutrean Man of the Year” award, which Wolter accepted on a previous World Solutrean Day broadcast. “Scott Wolter… real nice guy!” Frank said this week. “He’s stuck on the Templars. Everything comes back to the Templars with him.”
110 Comments
Rock Knocker
4/26/2021 11:35:52 pm

Note to Rick and Frank: “Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....”

Reply
Anthony G.
4/27/2021 01:17:42 am

European Explorers have been in America since at least 1025AD. Very likely before this time but, this is where the earliest cartographic evidence starts. One thing is universally true about all sailors. They have sex. Whether their children or descendants survived to be genetically tested or not is another matter. Then there are the citizens of Vinland. Their fate has yet to be determined. Leif Erikson was a Christian missionary so the place likely existed before he showed up. The earliest evidence is still the 1025-1050 Anglo-Saxon Mappa Mundi Cotton World Map owned by the British Library. This is not the only medieval map in their possession showing North America. Funny. Have offered evidence for the authenticity of the Vinland map only for it to be irrelevant by at least 415 years.

https://www.academia.edu/45162789/c_1440_Vinland_Map_Cartographic_Evidence_of_the_Pre_Columbian_Newport_Tower

I have already provided a link to the Cotton Map evidence so I don't want to be redundant. It's not the only map to show North America long before 1440.

https://www.academia.edu/47743247/1325_Angelino_Dalorto_Principe_Corsini_Cartographic_Evidence_of_the_Pre_Columbian_Newport_Tower

https://www.academia.edu/44552862/1275_Mappamondo_di_Saint_Denis_Vinland_Boundaries


https://www.academia.edu/44494087/c_1100_1199_Sawley_Mappa_Mundi_Corpus_Christi_College_Cambridge_EN_MS_66_Icon_Analysis

This one is in the process of being redone. My skills with my cell phone have come a long way since this was first done.

We have made some really cool discoveries. Thank you for allowing me to share.


"You’ll forgive me if I didn’t listen to all four hours."

I don't know how you listened to this idiot for longer than 3 to 4 seconds seconds. Idiots like this muddy the waters of legitimate research. There is no lost white race. There were explorers putting into port. Unless they were celibate monks, they were sneaking and creeping.



Reply
Paul
4/28/2021 09:24:48 am

Anthony, someone might pay attention to what you have to say if you understood the definition of legitimate. Otherwise, you ramblings are those of a clown.

Reply
Anthony G.
4/29/2021 06:12:36 pm

Thousands of very intelligent people around the world are paying attention, Paul. What is it you don't get? Did I lose you at sex? Have you ever published anything on academia.edu which achieved anything in the top 5%.? How about 2%? Surely not Top 1%?

WE HAVE!

Come back when you have something to contribute.

An Over-Educated Grunt
4/30/2021 10:23:42 am

As Abraham Lincoln said in his seminal philology text, "No Diggity in G Minor," you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. Search engine optimization games on Academia aren't exactly proof of anything, and the fact that thousands of people on a planet of billions is statistically meaningless, irrelevant to the veracity of your idea, and reminiscent of the fact that Piltdown Man was once accepted as a legitimate find.

Anthony G.
4/30/2021 12:35:38 pm

OEG,

It's not an idea. It's a Historical Fact attested to on maps going back 1,000 years. Maybe I've given you too much credit over the last 13+ years. Have published over 130+ examples with more to come!

What about Orange Peter and Canadian Mary? Don't they have anything to say? Are they, like Paul and OEG sticking to the Newport Tower being built as a windmill by the descendant of the 9th Grandmaster of the Knights Templar, Arnold of Torroja? You Scott Wolter supporters, you!

Jim
4/30/2021 01:29:54 pm

An Over-Educated Grunt, if you want a real laugh check out what Anthony and Patrick proclaim to be the Newport Tower in various (hundreds ?) old maps, it's like pareidolia on steroids.

https://www.facebook.com/Phippsburg-History-Center-114338978642314/

Paul
4/30/2021 07:00:46 pm

My god, Anthony. Cell phone pictures of old maps with coffee, tea, wine, ink and who knows what other stains don’t prove whatever it you think you’re saying. Just because you put something on the internet doesn’t make it so. Your Newport tower claims are crap, that is crap, C-R-A-P. There is no reasonable way to attack the message so I will just reiterate, you’re an idiot.

An Over-Educated Grunt
5/1/2021 11:01:07 am

Anthony, have you considered the possibility that your claims simply fail to persuade? The state of navigation and ship building in the mid eleventh century doesn't support reliable transatlantic travel. It barely supported reliable travel from Norway to Iceland. Your maps don't look anything like other tenth century maps. The amount of special pleading required isn't supported by the evidence and your response to poor evidence quality is to get more shrill and effort to varieties of appeal to popularity. You need better evidence, like artifacts found in an undisturbed context, but none of the sites you're looking at are going to provide that.

Paul
5/1/2021 03:50:18 pm

Also, Anthony, the highest number of views on Shekleton’s Academia nonsense seems to be 380 something on Academia. A great many have 0 or 1 view. Not widely read by any stretch of the imagination so suggestion for you, go stretch yours again.

Anthony G.
5/1/2021 08:33:03 pm

"My god, Anthony. Cell phone pictures of old maps with coffee, tea, wine, ink and who knows what other stains don’t prove whatever it you think you’re saying."


First. Those are NOT cellphone pics. Well...A few of them are. When the map was in the curator's immediate possession and they graciously snapped some cell phone pictures. Everything has been documented and everyone involved has been credited. Most importantly of all, it is ALL REPEATABLE.

Second! Those are NOT stains in any way shape or form. You are underestimating the abilities of the medieval artists creating these works of cartography. The skill level shown by the Miniaturists is astounding. Many of these works are anonymous.


"Just because you put something on the internet doesn’t make it so. Your Newport tower claims are crap, that is crap, C-R-A-P. There is no reasonable way to attack the message so I will just reiterate, you’re an idiot."

Wow. Thank you for the compliment!!! I have now been called an idiot by someone with less intellect than an Ancient Aliens talking head, a Stone Hole Preacher, or a credit card and toothpick wizard.

No. I don't want fries with that. I will take my business elsewhere.

Have a blessed day!

Anthony G.
5/3/2021 06:46:53 pm

https://www.academia.edu/47943494/1510_Pedro_Reinel_Chart_Cartographic_Evidence_of_the_Pre_Colonial_Newport_Tower

This should settle it.

kent says, "KPO"...Keep Publishing Obviousness??? We will. We've published over 130 papers. Evidence of pre-Columbian contact has been in the public record for about a thousand years. Technology has finally caught up with the astounding skill level of the Miniaturists, and allowed us to bust the assumptions of scholars. Those are not stains! Only a complete imbecile would think so after studying the evidence presented. This means, I have hope for everyone except, Paul.

More to come.

Reply
T. Franke link
4/27/2021 10:41:40 am

Hmm, Rick Santorum is right. "There was nothing here" in the sense he immediately explains: "there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture." It is only true. He does not talk of an "empty continent". That is not what he said. He is talking of culture, and the culture of the evolving America did indeed take over almost nothing from the Indians' culture.

And I don't think that "the colonial generation did look to Native groups as examples of alternatives to European-style monarchy in actual living practice." Or, if they looked, they only looked, but did not take over much.

The Federalist Papers always cite ancient Greek and Roman historians to give examples why the constitution should be written this way or that way. Can't remember of any Indian example.

And even if there were one or two examples, it is not enough to debunk Rick Santorum. Rick Santorum did not say, that there is no such influence at all, but he said: "there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture."

It is only true.

Reply
Jim
4/27/2021 09:47:17 pm

Good lord Franke, just because the white newcomers didn't adapt to native culture doesn't mean there wasn't any !

The newcomers thought it was better to push them off their lands or to just kill all the natives and destroy their cultures rather than have to share their newly stolen land with the original owners.
Manifest Destiny and all that.

"The self-serving concept of manifest destiny, the belief that the expansion of the United States was divinely ordained, justifiable, and inevitable, was used to rationalize the removal of American Indians from their native homelands."

https://americanexperience.si.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Manifest-Destiny-and-Indian-Removal.pdf


"In 1988, the U.S. Senate paid tribute with a resolution3 that said, "The confederation of the original 13 colonies into one republic was influenced by the political system developed by the Iroquois Confederacy, as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the constitution itself."

https://www.pbs.org/native-america/blogs/native-voices/how-the-iroquois-great-law-of-peace-shaped-us-democracy/

" the confederacy became known to the English as the Six Nations and was recognized as such at Albany, New York (1722). Often characterized as one of the world’s oldest participatory democracies, the confederacy has persisted into the 21st century."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Iroquois-Confederacy

Reply
T. Franke link
4/28/2021 04:55:52 pm

Jim, the intellectual level of your contribution has reached the bottom line again. You say "the white newcomers" ... now let us meditate about your words ... where all "newcomers" white? And did really all of them think like that? Did they think so right from the beginning, or were there ups and downs? And the silly sentence that "many of the democratic principles" allegedly go back to Indian traditions? Do you really believe this?! Are you mad!? How old are you?!

Jim
4/30/2021 01:05:07 pm

T Franke:

" But the core principles are derived from the European Americans and their Enlightened (or not so Enlightened) White Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture, and how it evolved in America."

And with that T Franke goose steps off into the sunset !

Gimme a break Franke, America has been aptly called a great melting pot. Our culture has evolved from the sum total of all nationalities and races involved, some more some less.

"White Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture"

But not Catholics Franke ?
But not Jewish people Franke ?
Leave out the Afro Americans,, right Franke ?
All those Catholic Frenchmen who along with Native Americans opened up the Americas during the fur trade contributed nothing to the culture Franke ?
The Creoles and Cajuns down New Orleans way have no cultural significance ? Huh, Mardi Gras seemed like a big cultural event to me, but wait, they are not WASPS so, no culture there.
The fact that Rap music has no cultural significance gives me the BLUES Franke.

What boy in America didn't play Cowboys and Indians when they were growing up ?
Here in Canada the Native Americans are called First Nations. Do you know what a Nation is Franke ?
As a young white boy I loved it when my father took me to First Nation Powwows, we were bad dancers but still we were included in their cultural dances and other events with smiles and encouragement, their culture was then part of my personal culture and is to this day.

White Anglo Saxon Protestants are in the majority (65- 70%) in N America yes, and our culture reflects that somewhat, but all the other cultural groups, especially Native Americans are part of our culture and heritage.

To this day, Canadian people still talk of how the First Nation warriors thwarted the American invasion into what is now Canada, with their British allies they used their "bloodthirsty savages" reputation to effect and with blood curdling war cries they chased the American forces down past Washington burnt down the White house, had a weenie roast and came home.
All Part of our unique Canadian heritage and culture which you Franke are speaking of out of complete and total ignorance.

I have one question for you Franke. What is your definition of "culture" ?

Perhaps you would deny the Natives their culture because they thwarted Germany and it's allies in both world wars when they used their native languages as codes and talked you out of victory by using their culture against you.

T. Franke link
5/1/2021 10:11:58 am

a) I said "core principles" ...

b) Your comment is becoming personal and complies with Godwin's law.

c) American military has much to thank to Prussian officer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wilhelm_von_Steuben (But also this is not a core principle).

Jim
5/1/2021 12:48:51 pm

"Your comment is becoming personal"

Dam straight it is, when you, a condescending German who hasn't spent any significant time (if any time at all) in America comes here and lectures actual North Americans as to what our own culture consists of because "I read newspapers", well Franke I might just have a problem with that,,,,,,,,,

As far as " But the core principles are derived from the European Americans and their Enlightened (or not so Enlightened) White Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture, and how it evolved in America."
maybe you should rethink that, just what percentage of "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant" dominate my culture ?
How convenient that you would choose the GERMANIC Anglo Saxons as having the core principles of North American culture.
As I recall Anglo Saxons make up about 1/3 of the pop of England and England only, they didn't settle in Ireland, Scotland, Wales or Cornwall. When you water them down even more to exclude Catholics and mixed race (non white) they are not the great cultural juggernaut you seem to think. Given the much smaller preponderance of wasps than you imagine being in the Americas maybe you want to change your ramblings ?

kent
5/1/2021 01:47:25 pm

Wow, Jim. Jim. You're making me side with Mr. Atlantis.

Yes, I know what a "Nation" is. That's part of why I call Indians Indians.

Chased down to Washington? Uh, yeah, no. The British sailed UPRIVER via the Chesapeake Bay like any normal person would.

"the American invasion into what is now Canada" Yet in the 19th century you were offered a chance to become part of the U.S. And in the 20th century you had a well thought out plan to invade the U.S.

"Good lord Franke, just because the white newcomers didn't adapt to native culture doesn't mean there wasn't any !"

You're pulling the classic trick of trying to reframe the argument. Schumer was arguing that there wasn't native culture in [modern] American culture, not that there was no native culture. Jim.

Senate resolutions are worth maybe half a cup of warm spit, so NO.


T. Franke link
5/2/2021 03:23:58 pm

Last cry:

Gian Rinaldo Carli (1720-1795) believed that both European and American civilizations derived from the sunken Atlantis (therefore they were on equal foot for him). And in his "American letters", he made an astonishing proposal: He proposed that European societies and states should consider reforms oriented at the Peruvian civilization (as he saw it). It is not only the US, it is Europe, too, which is potentially influenced by the American Indians! Potentially ....

Jim
5/2/2021 04:25:24 pm

Kent:

"Yes, I know what a "Nation" is. That's part of why I call Indians Indians."

This coming from the poster whose moniker for years was "AmericaNegro" and now claims to be a Native American.

" Yet in the 19th century you were offered a chance to become part of the U.S."

Hahaha You invade Canada, get your asses kicked and your Capitol burnt down and then come up with a plan to ask the polite Canadians if we might just give Canada to you !

Hard pass in the 19th century offer and a hard pass now. That's hilarious IndianKent, like you were doing us a favor, lol. Please don't send us any covid infected blankets.
Bye the bye, Greenland wants to know if California is for sale.

"Chased down to Washington? Uh, yeah, no. The British sailed UPRIVER via the Chesapeake Bay"

My bad NativeAmericaNegroKent,,, nitpicker extraordinaire, apparently the British and their allies went up south from Canada, attacked Washington then went back down north to Canada.

" Schumer was arguing that there wasn't native culture in [modern] American culture, not that there was no native culture. Jim."

Take another hit off the bong NativeAmericaNegroKent,
Schumer,,,,,,hahahahaha

Cal
5/4/2021 11:38:36 am

Influence= "The capacity to effect the character, development, or behavior of someone or something..."

So YES, a Senate resolution that becomes a permanent part of the historical and cultural record of America is worth far more than a half a cup of spit to represent an example of influence.

Kent
5/5/2021 01:30:27 pm

""Chased down to Washington? Uh, yeah, no. The British sailed UPRIVER via the Chesapeake Bay""

Okay Jim, I give up Jim. As you say, British Navy dragged their boats overland from the British (what you call "Canadian") border to attack DC.

We'll leave aside the pressganging, the original "white slavery". Wouldn't want to make you uncomfortable.

Ricky
5/6/2021 04:00:57 am

You better eat your porridge or the original Canadian white slavers are going to sneak down here from Toronto and grab you.

Many is the American child who was scared straight with that dire warning.

Doc Rock
4/27/2021 10:23:11 pm

Santorum's comments are ill-timed given that there has been recent controversy over the Boys Scouts of America's cultural appropriation of Native American culture. So there's that.

My knowledge of the topic is dated but various authors have documented/asserted a wide range of Native American influences (broadly defined) on American culture (broadly defined). Hallowell's paper "The Impact of the American Indian on American Culture" in American Anthropologist back in the 50s and Terry Jordan's essay on the "Anglo-American Mestizo," etc. in some edited volume back in the 80s come to mind.

Such influences are many, the only real debate is the extent to which people feel obligated to celebrate or downplay said influences based on their political orientation, the desire to argue for the sake of it, or ignorance (in the original sense) of the topic. Comprehending cultural influences is a sticky wicket when they are so ingrained that people have no real reason to critically reflect upon them. Most folks can't be expected to grasp the specifics of interplanting technology in North American horticulture when it has been taken as a given for almost 400 years

Reply
T. Franke link
4/28/2021 05:00:54 pm

Doc Rock,

a) there is never the wrong time to say the truth, unless you are a slave and have to look for your master's mood.

b) yes, there surely are cultural appropriations in American culture, why not, but not many. That is what Rick Santorum said.

c) On the one hand side, there is much claim that there was allegedly a great cultural appropriation of Indian culture, on the other hand, the poor boy scouts are condemned because of such cultural appropriation. Did I get this right? Your country is a mad house?

Doc Rock
4/29/2021 05:23:38 pm

Mr. Franke,

Santorum was incorrect as I and others here have demonstrated here with specific examples and references to published research. We are now way beyond the notion of just a few examples of influences. Santorum is essentially pushing the old Melting Pot Model which does not work and generally doesn't take into account the various non-mainstream influences in American society. As I said before, some of them have been so ingrained in American society for so long that people simply don't recognize them.

Beyond Native American issues there have been controversies in the U.S. over appropriation of African/African-American culture, Asian culture, and Middle Eastern culture. That is counter to the broader assertions by Santorum in some respects as well.

The issue of appropriation is one where on the one hand some people want to celebrate diversity in the U.S. by engaging in various activities associated with various groups not considered to be part of the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant tradition. Or they just find them to be useful cultural borrowings. But on the other hand there are some from the groups from whence these influences originate who view it as exploitation or providing distorted images of traditional practices.

I can understand some concerns about this. On the other hand I wouldn't want to be accused of cultural appropriation because I love to eat the dish succotash, my family utilized the "three sisters" model in gardens, I've participated in tomahawk throwing competitions in my younger years, and I probably never go thru a single day without using words and expressions influenced by Native Americans.

Have you spent much time in the U.S.?

T. Franke link
4/30/2021 04:01:47 am

Doc Roc,

I dare to disagree. There are many examples of not very important influences. But the core principles are derived from the European Americans and their Enlightened (or not so Enlightened) White Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture, and how it evolved in America.

Words, sports, gardening, come one! I

Jim
5/7/2021 12:33:29 pm

T Franke"

"White Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anglo-Saxon’ Is What You Say When ‘Whites Only’ Is Too Inclusive:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/anglo-saxon-what-you-say-when-whites-only-too-inclusive/618646/

"The Anglo-Saxonism to which I refer has little to do with the Germanic peoples who settled in medieval England. Rather, it’s an archaic, pseudoscientific intellectual trend that gained popularity during the height of immigration from Eastern and Southern Europe to the United States, at the turn of the 20th century. Nativists needed a way to explain why these immigrants—Polish, Russian, Greek, Italian, and Jewish—were distinct from earlier generations, and why their presence posed a danger."

"This belief that America’s “original” population was Anglo-Saxon, and that the American way of life was threatened by the presence not just of nonwhite people but of inferior, non-Anglo-Saxon (or “Nordic”) white people, shaped the racist immigration-restriction laws of the early 20th century. As historians have documented, it also influenced the ideology of Nazi Germany. Translated into law, it produced such horrifying artifacts as Virginia’s 1924 anti-miscegenation act, passed with the aid of the eugenicist Anglo-Saxon Clubs. The law required all babies to be classified as “white” or “colored” and made it a felony to “misrepresent” your racial background. The Nazi jurists studying American race laws in the 1930s thought such “one drop” rules were a bit too strict."

“‘One drop of negro blood makes the negro’ is no longer a theory based on race pride or color prejudice, but a logically induced, scientific fact,” the groups claimed, adding that their objective was to maintain “the supremacy of the white race in the United States of America, without racial prejudice or hatred.” Got that?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

SAXON, SAX-OFF Racism row over ‘Anglo Saxons’ as furious historians call for ‘white supremacist’ term to be binned
A RACISM row has erupted over the phrase "Anglo-Saxon" after historians called for a ban on its use.:

"Anglo-Saxon traditionally refers to warring groups from Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands who invaded Britain in the fourth century AD.
However, more recently the phrase has been adopted by white-supremacists to describe white people of British origin."

"Anglo-Saxon became more popular as a phrase in the 18th and 19th centuries when it was used to link white people to their "supposed origins".
It was later adopted by Hitler, who wrote of the "Anglo-Saxon determination" to hold India."

"Generally, white supremacists use the term to make some sort of connection to their heritage (which is inaccurate) or to make associations with 'whiteness'."
"They also habitually misuse it to try and connect themselves to a warrior past." (Hello T. Franke)

T. Franke link
5/8/2021 10:02:37 am

The idea to define WASP as a concept of race and not of culture, or to nail down the term Anglo-Saxon to the Angles and Saxons from once upon a time .... is wrong and childish. This would be like ridiculing the use of the term "German" by nailing it down to a supposed "Germanic race" or to the once-upon-a-time Germanic culture. Only fools do that.

Jim
5/15/2021 10:32:17 am

T Franke says:

"The idea to define WASP as a concept of race and not of culture, or to nail down the term Anglo-Saxon to the Angles and Saxons from once upon a time .... is wrong and childish."

How silly,,,, that big W stands for WHITE, Franke. It is very specifically WHITE Franke !

Perhaps you could list off all the cultural influences that specifically White Anglo Saxon Protestants have dominated American Culture ? Good luck with that, lol.

Anglo Saxon religion ?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nope.
Anglo Saxon politics ?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nope.
Anglo Saxon art ?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nope.
I will let you Franke tell us of all these dominating cultural aspects that WHITE asps have given us.

Near as I can tell the only thing those who identify as WASPs have given our culture is racism.

Sachem Obvious
4/29/2021 09:16:39 am

There are about 400 colleges and universities in the U.S. that have Lacrosse teams. Over 1200 high schools have Lacrosse teams. A professional Lacrosse league was recently formed in the U.S.

This is going to be another instance of people arguing that something is rare or non-existent then continuing to argue in the face of a long list of examples to the contrary.

Reply
Doc Rock
4/30/2021 11:31:01 am

From what I have seen here we have words, sports, gardening, music, literature, film, television, popular figures, material culture. Could throw in the fact that Native American legends in the form of characters such as Wendingo and Skinwalkers have had a significant impact on contemporary American urban legends, folklore, and pop culture.

The original issue was "not much". Now we are up to "a lot but somehow not very important." Most Americans who think about it from an informed perspective would beg to differ.

As I said before, the issue was not that there aren't a lot of influences but how people would want to spin them. Since my original comments were to demonstrate Santorum was wrong, I don't want to get caught up in a rapidly mutating debate.

But thanks for your comments. And good luck with following up on some of this stuff in terms of things for you to consider given that you don't seem to have spent much time here in the U.S.

Reply
Old McDonald Obvious
5/1/2021 01:16:37 pm

Interest in Indian culture and imitation of it in Germany over the last several generations has been described as obsessive.

There is a Lacrosse league in Germany with dozens of teams.

Germany leads the European Union in production and consumption of potatoes.

Tomatoes are second only to the potato in popularity as a cultivated food item in Germany.

Germany is one of the European Union leaders in corn production.

Herr Franke is not even knowledgable of significant Indian influences on Germany. He is no position to comment on Indian influences on American culture.

European settlers were able to survive and establish themselves in North America by borrowing Indian agricultural practices. These crops are now the basis of billions of dollars of agribusiness. Doc Rock should know better than to reduce this to "gardens."

Doc Rock
5/2/2021 03:40:33 pm

Mr. Old MacDonald,

Please note that my original reference was to horticulture which in anthropology, and to others as well, refers to much more than a couple rows of tomatoes in a yuppy's backyard. I simply used gardening later since Mr. Franke elected to use that term. Also an anthropology thing as well since a garden in many contexts can refer to a worked plot of land that could feed a large family for a year. The term truck patch is also used for a large garden that provides most of the food and fruit for a family and also surplus to sell. Most sensible people would agree that eating, speaking, etc. are important.

Obviously the same crops that were used for survival by early settlers and are a large part of the contemporary American diet are big money cash crops as well. But since Mr. Franke clearly has a lot of blind spots as it relates to influences on American culture and their importance I was trying to keep things cut into small bites.

Yes, there are clear examples of a global influence of Native American culture, however, this continues to get us far afield from the original issue of Santorum's clearly wrongheaded comments about American culture.

T. Franke link
5/4/2021 01:31:57 pm

"He is no position to comment on Indian influences on American culture."

Ridiculous attempt to make your FAKE history immune against any reasonable criticism, i.e. you are just establishing a dogma and you want to enforce it upon me against all reason and against all justice and freedom. The dogma of alleged major and important influences of Indian culture to the US culture which is clearly dominated and defined in its core by White Anglo-Saxon Protestantism and by nothing else.

The audience of this blog does fight FAKE history of the one sort, which is good, and produces FAKE history of another sort. Which is unpleasant. I am in the position to say this.

Speaking of germany
5/4/2021 05:02:17 pm

From Wikipedia:

"Native Americans in German popular culture have been an important cultural motif since the late 18th century. Since then, a cultural fascination with Native Americans has had specific influences on German popular culture, environmentalism, literature, art, historical reenactment, theatrical and film depictions of Indigenous Americans."

Sauerbraten served with potatoes is considered to be one of the national dishes of Germany.

Candy O
5/5/2021 12:01:20 pm

The German scholar Hartmut Lutz coined the term Indianthusiasm to describe the preoccupation by Germans with all things Indian.

https://www.wlupress.wlu.ca/Books/I/Indianthusiasm

Kent
5/6/2021 05:23:46 pm

So now with potatoes and tomatoes we see the influence of Amerindian culture on Irish and Italian cultures.

Similarly, the presence of ostrich eggs in Renaissance art is proof of the influence of African culture on European culture.

You like beer? Egyptian culture!

Potato Famine Victim obvious
5/7/2021 08:55:42 pm

It is well known among the educated and sane that the potato and tomato are examples of Native American culture on any given culture that uses said products.

If ostrich eggs are a cultural or artistic motif that is found to be in use in Europe as widely as the tomato and potato in cooking and it can can be directly linked to Africa then yes. But can you cite examples of such widespread use of ostrich eggs as a well-established motify in European art. Can you prove that a large egg in a painting is in fact actually an ostrich egg?

The Egyptians did not invent the brewing process. Try again.

Influence: the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something or the effect itself.

This isn't rocket science. Perhaps you could use a remedial English class like Franke.

Decolonize white minds
4/30/2021 03:39:16 pm

" the culture of the evolving America did indeed take over almost nothing from the Indians' culture."

The sheer ignorance of this crap. I take it you don't know where corn, potatoes, tomatoes, chilis and tobacco came from?

Reply
Kent
4/27/2021 02:29:26 pm

"“I mean, there was nothing here. I mean, yes we have Native Americans but candidly there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture. It was born of the people that came here.”

I'd be interested in hearing about [counter]examples of Native American culture in American culture.

Tom Brown, hippies, and the Rainbow Gathering don't count. :)

Reply
Joanna Hannigan link
4/28/2021 10:50:32 am

Bennie Franklin said idea of federal government, in which certain powers are given to a central government and
all other powers are reserved for the states, was borrowed from the system of government used by the Iroquoian League of Nations.
MANY WORDS WE USE EVERY DAY CAME FROM
NATIVE AMERICANS? Countless Native American words and inventions have become
an everyday part of our language and use. Some of these include: barbecue, caribou,
chipmunk, woodchuck, hammock, toboggan, skunk, mahogany, hurricane, and moccasin. Many towns, cities and rivers have names of Native American origin. Just a few of these include: Seattle, Spokane, Yakima, Pocatello, Cherokee, Tellico, Antietam, Chinook, Flathead Lake, Milwaukee, Ottawa, Miami, Wichita, and Kalispell.
NATIVE AMERICANS DEVELOPED AND
COMMUNICATED WITH SIGN LANGUAGE? A system of hand signals was developed to facilitate trade and communicate between different tribal groups and later between
Native Americas and trappers and traders. The same idea is used today for communicating with those who are deaf and unable to speak. The signs are different,
but the idea is the same.
MANY NATIVE AMERICANS SERVED DURING
WORLD WAR I, WORLD WAR II AND OTHER CAMPAIGNS? Even though many of them were not even citizens, more than 8,000 Native Americans volunteered and
served during World War I. Well over 24,000 served during World War II. One of the most notable contributions during World War II was the service of the Navajo Code
Talkers, a special group of volunteers who did top-secret work using a secret code in Navajo that could not be broken.
INDIANS AS INDIVIDUALS HAVE EXCELLED IN MANY
FIELDS? Jim Thorpe (athlete), Billy Mills (athlete), Johnny Bench (athlete), Charles
Curtis (vice president of U.S.), Maria Tallchief (ballerina), Johnny Cash (entertainer),
Buffy St. Marie (musician) and Will Rogers (entertainer)…

Reply
Kent
4/28/2021 04:59:55 pm

Good Lord, or Wematanye, calm the heck down. I'll revisit whatever it was you posted next time I'm playing Canasta in my pajamas on my veranda after tiffin. Know what the Russian word for garage is? Garage.

Johnny Cash was an Indian just like James "Rockford Files" Garner was. No one cares. In Wematanye's eyes we are all Cherokees. No love for Ira Hayes, who helped raise the flag on Iwo Jima then drowned in a puddle?

I agree with your main point, that we need to change those place names. It was wrong of us to steal them.

T. Franke link
4/28/2021 05:23:35 pm

Joanna, most of what you say is reasonable.

But I had a look for the Iroqois confederation claim, and no, there is nothing but a quite unfriendly sentence by Bejnamin Franklin about the Iroqois as savages: "It would be a strange thing if Six Nations of ignorant savages should be capable of forming a scheme for such an union, and be able to execute it in such a manner as that it has subsisted ages and appears indissoluble; and yet that a like union should be impracticable for ten or a dozen English colonies."

Scholars disagree on the Iroqois theory: "Other scholars are not convinced. Anthropologist Elisabeth Tooker, for example, argued that European political theory and precedent furnished the models for American Founders, while evidence for Indian influence was very thin. Although the concept of the Iroquoian Confederation may have been similar to the United States’ first efforts to unite alliance, the Iroquois constructed their government under very different principles. The member nations of the Iroquois League all lived under matrilineal societies, in which they inherited status and possessions through the mother’s line. Headmen were not elected, but rather clan mothers chose them. Representation was not based on equality or on population. Instead, the number of Council members per nation was based on the traditional hierarchy of nations within the confederation. Moreover, the League of Six Nations did not have a centralized authority like that of the federal system the Euro-Americans eventually adopted."

I find it particularly embarrassing that anyone could see the freedom of the ideas of the Enlightenment in the "freedom" of the Indians. Because they had no freedom. They were strictly bound to their tribes. The image of the free savage is a romantic illusion of white men and women.

Generally, much of this identitarian nonsense is simply romantic illusionism, completely in the line of the 19th century romantication of Indians.

Source:
https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24099

Steve Jones
4/29/2021 02:33:22 am

Johnny Cash was NOT born of Indian descent, but he was a great and influential activist for Native Americans.

Cash used his stardom and economic status to bring awareness to the issues surrounding the Native American people.

In 1966, in response to his activism, the singer was adopted by the Seneca Nation's Turtle Clan. This probably where the notion that Johnny Cash was an Indian stems from.

Running Bare
4/29/2021 06:50:41 am

Johnny Cash believed himself to be of partial First Nation descent, but it has never been proven. However, he was inspired to develop the First Nation-centered album Bitter Tears. One song from it, the Ballad of Ira Hayes is considered to be a Country Music classic. The album has influenced other musicians to produce similar work. Look Again to the Wind is a tribute to Johnny Cash's work on Bitter Tears. Another example is Marty Stuarts album Badlands: Ballads of the Lakota.

There are many country music songs that utilize First Nations imagery: Indian Outlaw by Tim McGraw, Kawliga by Hank Williams, Cherokee Maiden by Merle Haggard, Cherokee Fiddle by Johnny Lee to name a few examples.

Jim
4/29/2021 11:30:14 am

Let's not forget about how much the canoe and the Natives themselves contributed to the opening up of North America.
What started the ball rolling in the exploration of especially the Northern US and Canada was the commerce and massive profits the fur trade created with the main source of travel being the canoe. The traders often lived and learned how to survive the wild lands among the native tribes and I daresay the natives had a lot larger role in the "white" mans opening up of N America than most will admit or even know about.
The Natives were sought after and fought after partners for this major commerce and then tossed aside and forced onto reservations when the trade died out to be replaced by settlers and farmers.

Doc Rock
4/29/2021 05:48:40 pm

This topic has me racking my brain in terms of materials that I used to teach and write on the topic of acculturation a long time ago.

Speaking of exploration, Sacagawea of Lewis and Clark fame has been featured on a coin and stamps and in various forms of film and literature. So there's that.

As it relates to the U.S. military, some special forces and small unit tactics have their roots in tactics borrowed from Native Americans. I believe that literature on Native American tactics is utilized in classes at West Point. Some popular images of the Normandy invasion in WW2 was U.S. paratroopers sporting Mohawks and war paint. You can see the same thing at some contemporary sporting events, including, at least in the past, Native American themed mascots ( the film "In Whose Honor" is instructive here). There are Apache and Blackhawk choppers, the Tomahawk cruise missile system, and code names such as Geronimo for military operations. "Indian Country" refers to entering a dangerous area inhabited by the enemy. By extension this stuff filters into popular American culture.

Movies, books, TV series, etc.. Most Pow Wows that I have been to had more white folks than NA's and who were whipping out their credit cards to buy Dreamcatchers to hang on the porch. And so on and so forth....

Time for my evening firewater.....

Anthony G.
4/29/2021 06:06:33 pm

You all should watch the episode of "Finding Your Roots" with Dr Henry Louis Gates Jr featuring Roseanne Cash. Some of you are talking out your backsides.

Ted Williams was half Mexican. What's the big deal? There is no such thing as a pure race.

Jim
5/2/2021 05:04:48 pm

T Franke:

"But I had a look for the Iroqois confederation claim, and no, there is nothing but a quite unfriendly sentence by Bejnamin Franklin about the Iroqois as savages: "It would be a strange thing if Six Nations of ignorant savages should be capable of forming a scheme for such an union, and be able to execute it in such a manner as that it has subsisted ages and appears indissoluble; and yet that a like union should be impracticable for ten or a dozen English colonies."


B.S. Franke, what the hell makes you think you can misquote Franklin and get away with it ? That's just dishonest.

There is no period at the end of that quote but a comma ! How convenient you left out the rest of the quote:

"for ten or a Dozen English Colonies, to whom it is more necessary, and must be more advantageous; and who cannot be supposed to want an equal Understanding of their Interests.”

Congress Formally Recognizes Iroquois Influence:

https://www.history.com/news/iroquois-confederacy-influence-us-constitution

"The fact that many of the framers looked to Native governments for inspiration didn’t stop them from viewing Native people as inferior. This disconnect is evident in a 1751 letter from Benjamin Franklin describing the need for the 13 colonies to form a “voluntary Union” similar to that of the Iroquois Confederacy:"

T. Franke link
5/4/2021 04:25:01 pm

Jim, the rest of the quote makes no difference, therefore I rightly omitted it. It is just a condescending sentence by Benjamin Franklin, and not a proof that this confederacy was the role model for the US constitution. Of course, you can repeat your dogma once more, now, but this will not make it anymore true ...

Jim
5/5/2021 10:42:54 am

T Franke:

"Jim, the rest of the quote makes no difference"

LOL you are busted, your dishonesty is on full display here !

Jebus, you are trying to tell me that the author of the piece titled: "The Native American Government That Inspired the US Constitution" quoted Benjamin Franklin to prove himself wrong !
What nonsense.

You completely changed the meaning of the quote by chopping it off mid sentence and swapping out a comma for a period.

"It is just a condescending sentence by Benjamin Franklin"

No, it's not even a sentence, it's 1/2 a sentence because you chopped it off to change the meaning to something more amenable to your own opinion which is complete B.S.

T. Franke link
5/6/2021 05:24:51 pm

Jim: "Jebus, you are trying to tell me that the author of the piece titled: 'The Native American Government That Inspired the US Constitution' quoted Benjamin Franklin to prove himself wrong !"

Yes, exactly. This is what I am trying to tell you.

"Es glaubt der Mensch, wenn er nur Worte hört, es müsse sich dabei doch auch was denken lassen!" (Goethe)

Paul
4/28/2021 04:21:24 pm

What is quite interesting is that indigenous folks have oral history and some ill defined historical context. But it is mainly white academia and white archaeologists and anthropologists that are giving indigenous folks their deep history.

Reply
Normandie Kent
6/8/2021 03:33:53 am

Umm no, traditional Native Americans have paid no mind or merit to what Anthros, Archaeologists, or geneticists have to say about their ancient ancestors or history. They go by oral history that has been passed down to their modern day descendants of their creation, where they have traveled, disasters, floods, ect. Do you honestly think they read the latest anthropological theory or hypothesis on the ancestral origins? A very small amount would take anything these anthros have to say about THEIR cultural patrimony.

T. Franke link
4/28/2021 05:05:59 pm

Kent, what about the traces of Indian culture in literature? All the Wild West stories ...... good and bad, old and young. For me as a German, the literary figure of Winnetou will always be a role model, and it cannot be otherwise. Surely, it is a literary figure, not a real Indian. But aren't there some traits shining through the broken mirror in which we are looking from the past into the future? Stories for being told at the campfire is not the worst heritage.

Reply
Doc Rock
4/29/2021 06:03:53 pm

Mr. Franke,

The book "When the Legends Die" is considered by many to be a classic in youth/young adult literature. If you are interested in the overall topic you might look at the many books written by Tony Hillerman based on Navajo culture. He has even received awards from the tribe for his accurate portrayals of the group. A couple of the books have been made into movies. Authors such as James Fenimore Cooper and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow can be considered as well.

There are plenty of contemporary actual Native American writers whose books are widely read and provide more realistic portrayals. Too many to go into here since I am late for Happy Hour.

T. Franke link
4/30/2021 04:05:00 am

Thank you Doc Rock, I will have a look.

Doc Rock
4/30/2021 11:35:50 am

While you are reading up, you might want to take a look at the literature on Native American influences on the modern American environmental movement.

Darold knowles
4/30/2021 08:18:28 pm

“Over a period of thousands of years, Native Americans purposefully transformed maize through special cultivation techniques.”

http://www.nativetech.org/cornhusk/cornhusk.html

I think it’s fair to say that if not for Native Americans, Joe Kent Scales would be staining the computer keyboard in his mom’s basement with something other than Cheetos.

Reply
Phil
4/27/2021 04:53:37 pm

I listened to the podcast. Where did he mention you or your book??? Never heard it.

Reply
Phil
4/27/2021 06:46:20 pm

Sorry, it was around 2:50 in when they started talking about suing you for libel.

Reply
Bob Jase
4/28/2021 01:29:40 pm

Bolsheviki? Is the guy campaigning for Herbert Hoover?

Reply
T. Franke link
4/28/2021 05:34:08 pm

Iroqois? Switzerland!

If you google long enough, you may find that each and every state and tribe on this planet makes the claim to have been the role model for this or that feature of the US constitution.

But there was one federation which indeed impressed the founding fathers. And this was Switzerland and its 500 years old confederation.

The Swiss Confederation In the Eyes of America's Founders
http://stephenhalbrook.com/law_review_articles/swiss_confederation.pdf

And:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/07/03/founding-father-youve-never-heard/

Reply
The Atlantis Expert
4/28/2021 06:34:09 pm

What have conservatives contributed to American culture? Almost nothing. Culture is created by liberals.

Reply
Darold knowles
4/29/2021 01:35:30 am

It’s funny that the same people who proudly declare that America was founded on principles directly opposed to the old Europe of absolute monarchies, forced state religions, and static feudal social systems are also the first people to brag that America was founded solely on superior European principles when someone suggests a non-European influence.

Reply
Doc Rock
5/2/2021 10:55:42 am

There is an irony at work here. The rise of "European" civilization is heavily rooted in the Greek city states and Rome. Yet, in the early 20th century people from these areas were not particularly welcome in the U.S. as immigrants. Emphasis had shifted to Anglo-Saxon imagery even though the ancestors of these folks were bare-assed barbarians living in mud huts compared to what had developed in Rome and Greece and then later influenced greater Europe.

The notion of WASPness is still emphasized even though it is the vast number of non-WASP influences that make the U.S. distinctive.

Reply
Darold knowles
5/2/2021 11:34:19 pm

They’re also the same people who in one breath will tell you that the use of Native Americans as mascots for sports teams is meant to honor and celebrate the tribes’ traditions and culture, while in the next breath they will insist that Native culture is worthless and had no impact on modern America.

T. Franke link
5/4/2021 04:37:40 pm

Darold Knowles,

did Rick Santorum say that Indian culture is "worthless"? No, he did not, this is your phantasy. Did Rick Santorum say, that it had "no impact" on modern America? No, he did not, this is your phantasy. Rick Santorum admitted clearly that there was some impact, only not in crucial fields.

Are you able to criticize Rick Santorum only by twisting his words?

Doc Rock,

there is nothing funny or strange in the fact that Greeks and Italians were not so much liked as immigrants in the 19th / 20th century, simply because they had lost a lot of their original Greek and Roman civilization .... ever heard of the Dark Ages?

And naturally, the shift to the Anglo-Saxon world, because they adopted the ideals of Greek and Roman civilization. Partially. The Germanics once were savages, true, but they were not anymore.

Culture can be lost and can be adopted, and people can change. You are working unspokenly with stereotypes of never-changing peoples and cultures. Your talk is not very intelligent. Rick Santorum's words were much more nuanced than your's.

European cultures are a mixture of Germanic, Slavic etc. savagery, then of Christianity, and finally of Greek and Roman culture. They are complicated, and they can turn out to be bad or good depending on which elements have the upper hand. Your simplistic view of European culture, and thus of WASP culture, is embarrassing.

Darold knowles
5/5/2021 04:46:45 pm

I didn’t mention Rick Santorum in any of my comments, although you seem to be imputing the characteristics that I described to him — that’s your problem, not mine.

Doc Rock
5/6/2021 04:19:27 pm

Mr. Franke,

If you are going to accuse me of being simplistic here then you might want to have avoided leaving out issues like the Renaissance (that kind of big deal that came well after the Dark Ages) as well as the subtle but important dimensions of the Johns Act as it related to immigration to the U.S. I'm sorry but based on what I have seen here over the last few days there is only one person really embarassing themself here and it isn't me.

The original issue was addressing erroneous assertions about an alleged dearth of Native American influences on American culture. That has been done in spades., so time to dump a bucket of dirt (pardon the pun)on the rabbit hole and head off to happy hour. Think that I will see what German imported beer my 5th favorite watering hole has in stock.

As my grandmother would say in situations like this: Pov Bouki saye', pov Bouki tombe', or something like that.

the real captain obvious
5/2/2021 08:08:35 pm

"Native Americans had no freedom" LOL.

Amerindian societies were often remarkably egalitarian with great individual freedom. Women had a significant voice in decision making and sometimes held positions of authority or had specialized skills at a time when American women couldn't vote, rarely if ever held public office and were limited to domestic chores. Individual freedom also included fluidity in gender identiy and sexuality when the same behavior was illegal in American society or subject to public ridicule. People were free to leave a particular village or band if they were not happy with how things were done. People were free to disregard the decisions made by leaders if they were not happy with them.

American culture took "almost nothing" from Amerindian culture. Just like nobody uses the word Afro-German in Germany, eh?

The development of the Navajo codetalkers program was influenced by the successful use of codetalkers from tribes like the Choctaw in World War One.

Donald Trump vs. Elizabeth Warren on the "Pocahontas" matter shows Amerindian influence on how white Americans try to self-identify.

Watching Kent and Frank getting rolled while being oblivious to it happening never gets old.

Reply
T. Franke link
5/4/2021 04:49:40 pm

The Real Captain Obvious,

"Amerindian societies were often remarkably egalitarian with great individual freedom. Women had a significant voice in decision making and sometimes held positions of authority or had specialized skills"

=> This sounds very much like the romantic fairy tales about Muslim women having sooooo much freedom and are soooo important and have sooooo much voice in their radical Islamic society ........ fairy tales TOLD BY ISLAMISTS. -- Or have you ever read a Papal encyclica about the great freedoms of women granted by the Catholic church? You can read there pages after pages how much freedom they have and how important they are, and it sounds just like YOU about these Indian "freedoms"!

You really do not want to sell me Indian "freedoms" as equal with the idea of freedom as developed in the course of Enlightenment. You really do not want to.

And yes, the word "Afro-Deutsch" has generally not been in use in German society until now. I insist on this. What you have been producing until now were few single usages. And you are loosing just another battle, right now.

You should listen to the nuanced words of Rick Santorum. You have much to learn.

Reply
The real captain obvious
5/4/2021 11:54:54 pm

Women in the Iroquois Confederacy had great personal freedom and played a wide range of leadership and official advisory roles, and had significant control of property, technology, and resources. In fact they influenced the American women's movement. See:

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/how-native-american-women-inspired-the-women-s-rights-movement.htm

Similar rights, privileges and authority could be found in southwestern tribes such as the Navajo and Zuni. See:

https://ratical.org/many_worlds/onlyDifferent.html

Similar circumstances can be found among Great Plains tribes. Among the Osage women were entrusted with powerful ritual knowledge and only they could participate in particular sacred acts. See:

Osage Women and Empire:Gender and Power.

In sum, many Native American societies women held powerful roles in religion at a time when the Catholic Church limited women to roles as nuns who could not preside over important religious ceremonies. They could control property and their own bodies at a time when European women often had very little control over property or their own bodies. Native American often had far more political power and influence than any given European woman. They often had freedom to select their own marriage partners at a time when arranged marriages were common in Europe.They often had the freedom to initiate divorce when this was forbidden to women in Europe.

You are uneducated.





Candy O
5/5/2021 11:55:43 am

At the time of European/Euro-American contact women in various Indian tribes had rights and freedoms that would not be achieved in Germany until the social and political reforms of the Weimar Republic in the early 20th century. Even after reforms, progress toward gender equity was slower in the predominantly Catholic regions of Germany.

Both you and the honorable Rick Santorum have much to learn.

T. Franke link
5/5/2021 05:42:24 pm

"You are uneducated."

I am very sorry, but you show time and again that you have no idea about what you are talking. You are putting forward minor aspects of culture, unimportant material aspects of culture, or you put forward patriarchy-matriarchy phenomena, and tell me that this would be the core of the things, that this would be equal and even more to what the European Enlightenment brought about. Condescending sentences of Benajmin Franklin are forced into a positive meaning by eager interpretators, hurting the feelings for truth of every literate reader. And you even do not realize that you sound like any religious traditionalist praising the achievements of his religion (just like "women rights already in the Quran while Europe had it only in the 20th century! Sensation! Sensation!").

But the most ridiculous is the idea that a Senate resolution could define history. Politics were never good at defining history. I suggest to leave history to the historians.

If you cannot admit that Rick Santorum is basically right and that the core principles of the US culture are WASP, then you let your feelings drive away your mind.

But maybe it is as with "Afro-Deutsch": Not yet established but maybe on the way of establishment. Maybe it is true that WASP culture is loosing its dominance right now, and you are referring to this phenomenon?

Then I wish you good luck in the US without WASP principles. Good luck with a society not based on the principles of the Englightenment. Good luck with a society with patriarchy, matriarchy, tribal structures, ... and tomatoes and potatoes as your great achievements. Good luck.

And good bye. I wish you well.

Jim
5/7/2021 05:41:31 pm

No Frank, it is you who are uneducated !

Franke: "If you cannot admit that Rick Santorum is basically right and that the core principles of the US culture are WASP, then you let your feelings drive away your mind."

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/sorry-romney-neither-america-nor-the-uk-are-anglo-saxon-countries/260309/

" neither the U.S. nor the U.K. are really "Anglo-Saxon" countries. The term, often misused, actually describes two small Germanic tribes to which few Americans or Britons are directly linked."
"The first person to apply the Anglo-Saxon label to Britain was a Benedictine monk named Bede, whose sweeping and long-definitive ethnography of eighth-century England was about as precise and scientific as you'd expect for the era. Bede's history declared that Britons descended from two Germanic tribes and one Dutch: the Angles, the Saxons, and the Jutes. But these migrants only started moving in after the Roman Empire's fifth century withdrawal, and anthropologists today do not seem to consider their impact as nearly so definitive as Bede did.
Anthropologists have disproven some of Bede's key claims, which long supported the idea that England is inherently Anglo-Saxon. Bede says entire German regions emptied onto the British isle, but today it looks like only perhaps 10,000 to 25,000 Angles and Saxons crossed over during the centuries of migration. These migrants settled in among the millions of people who were already there, ruling over parts of the island until the eleventh century Norman invasion."

Lets face it T Franke, both you and Rick Santorum are just blowing a 19th century, racist, white supremacist dogwhistle.


L-1 English speaker obvious
5/7/2021 09:10:03 pm

"You are putting forth minor aspects of culture..."

Yes, the documented fact that Native American women in 1600 had freedoms not available to German women until 1920 and that Native American culture had a direct influence on the political movment that led to increasing equality for American women is such a petty thing.

the fact that it looks like German have had a mania for Native American culture for 200 years is such a petty thing.

the fact that the German diet would be very different were it not for plant domestication by Native Americans is such a petty thing.

The fact that dozens of aspects of American culture from major civic organnizations such as the Boy Scouts to mainstays of American diets are examples of direct influences of Native American culture on American culture is such a petty thing.

You are not a fluent mother tongue English speaker. If you were you would understand that if someone makes a claim and then later changes their position on that claim and says that they misspoke it is backing away from their earlier position.

You understand that multiple people here have voiced disagreement with you and have supported their position with links to sources. The only person supporting you is "Kent". That should tell you something about your position.



You should read some of your comment aloud to yourself.

Jim
5/8/2021 10:05:10 am

Regarding my last comment above, I forgot this link, sorry.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/sorry-romney-neither-america-nor-the-uk-are-anglo-saxon-countries/260309/

Further to this:

"Even their cultural influence declined with the 1066 conquest by Normandy, today a region of France. The new Norman rulers transformed England and ejected the old Anglo-Saxon elite, many of whom fled the country entirely. And so the Anglo-Saxon era ended, four or five centuries of rule that ended a thousand years ago and did not appear to make a lasting or substantial impact on British genes."

"And, though the United States began its history as an English-speaking colony of Britain, and has retained much of the English political and legal systems, it's not really an ethnic English country anymore. America's population has exploded by a factor of over 100 since declaring independence, much of that growth coming from slavery and immigration, neither of which drew heavily from England. In the 2000 U.S. census, only 8.7 percent of Americans identify their ancestry as English, which is ranked fourth behind German, Irish, and African-American."
-----------------------------------------------------

This whole "White Anglo Saxon Protestant" nonsense is nothing more than an white supremacist wet dream.
After Billy the Bastard booted Harry off the English throne in 1066 the country soon lost any "Anglo-Saxon" identity.

"The new Norman rulers transformed England and ejected the old Anglo-Saxon elite, many of whom fled the country entirely. And so the Anglo-Saxon era ended, four or five centuries of rule that ended a thousand years ago and did not appear to make a lasting or substantial impact on British genes."

White Anglo Saxon Protestant:

White is completely redundant, all Anglo Saxons were white.

Anglo Saxon,,,,People identifying as European Anglos, Saxons and English Anglo Saxons dissappeared into history hundreds of years prior to the emergence of the Protestant form of religion.

There has never been an an Anglo Saxon Protestant,,,,,NEVER.

Kent
5/8/2021 12:41:31 pm

Sorry to burst your bubble but the Boy Scouts were invented in England by the pederast Baden-Powell. The Indian tradition of pederasty lives on to this day through the BSA. Oops.

"The fact that dozens of aspects of American culture from major civic organnizations such as the Boy Scouts to mainstays of American diets are examples of direct influences of Native American culture on American culture..."

Seriously dude? The white man was so stupid that he needed tomatoes pointed out to him?

Dont eat the leaves
5/9/2021 12:41:20 pm

Joe kent;

Nobody claimed that the Boy Scouts were invented in America, only that they are influenced by Native American culture. All you did was help to illustrate the broader global influence of Native Americans.

OOPS

Besides, Baden Powell was directly influenced by Ernest Thompson Seton based on his experiences living in the U.S. and Canada. He is credited with being the driving force in the incorporation of Native American cultural influences into the Boy Scouts.

OOPS

Thank you for raising the issue of pederasty as what you seem to think is an example of the primary WASP contribution to the Boy Scouts.

OOPS

Many Europeans once thought that the tomato was poisonous and had no idea of proper cultivation techniques. So yes, they did need a big heads from Native Americans.

OOPS

Everyone say goodbye to Joe Kent.

Goodbye Joe kent

Kent
5/23/2021 07:14:25 pm

"Proper cultivation techniques"???? I grew tomatos as a child with no Indian assistance. Put the seed in the ground, Wait for the tomato plant to appear. Easy to the peasy. It's literally not rocket science. Another thing that didn't come from Indians.

Moby
5/27/2021 08:10:30 pm

When I was 8 i put a goldfish in a glass bowl and it lived for over a year. But that doesn't mean that aquaculture is easy to the peasy.

Think before you hit the submit button next time.

Jim
5/28/2021 03:32:56 pm

Kent;

""Proper cultivation techniques"???? I grew tomatos as a child with no Indian assistance."

In an earlier blog you posted in, you claimed to be an Indian !
Are you no longer an Indian now that it doesn't suit your purpose ?

Kent
5/28/2021 06:24:51 pm

That is perhaps the stupidest counterargument ever. When a tomato plant dies, assuming it has fruited, multiple tomato plants arise. When a goldfish dies you have a snack.

The point stands: growing tomatoes is easy, no Indian lore required. Do try to follow along, won't you?

Kent
5/29/2021 08:08:49 am

Oh Jim.

"In an earlier blog you posted in, you claimed to be an Indian !
Are you no longer an Indian now that it doesn't suit your purpose ?"

Prove it. We'll wait.

I never claimed to be an Indian. I did mention and still assert that I am a Native American. Jim you idiot. Jim.

Old McDonald Obvious
5/30/2021 08:36:02 am

Planting a seed with the acquired knowledge that it will yield a particular edible fruit or vegetable is a cultural act originally learned from Native Americans. What kind of idiot uses this example to try to refute Native American influences?

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, however. Dropping a seed in the ground and doing nothing else generally results in one buying their tomatoes at the grocery store that year. Expecting to produce tomatoes simply from volunteers that emerge following the death of the plant generally results in one buying their tomatoes at the grocery store the following year. It's called c-u-l-t-i-v-a-t-i-o-n for a reason.

True, Native Americans had nothing to do with the 1957 Sputnik launch. Nor did they have anything to do with the invention of the internet or the character Bugs Bunny. What kind of idiot uses examples of what Native Americans didn't contribute to cultural developments to deny the existence of what they did contribute when it comes to refuting Santorum's original assertion..

Santorum is finished at CNN. Franke is finished here. Now Kent is finished here even if he is still lurking around a week from now trying to get in the last word.

Jim
5/30/2021 10:20:50 am

Kent:

"I never claimed to be an Indian. I did mention and still assert that I am a Native American. Jim you idiot. Jim."

Well Kent, if you grew up in America you are well aware that the term "Native American" in the English language means descendants of pre-columbian Americans.

If you got a beef, take it up with Wiki:

"Native Americans, also known as American Indians, First Americans, Indigenous Americans and other terms, are the indigenous peoples of the United States; sometimes including Hawaii and territories of the United States"

If you got a beef, take it up with the Natives themselves:

"In its 2019 "Tribal Nations and the United States" report, the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) defined Native American as "All Native people of the United States and its trust territories (i.e., American Indians, Alaska Natives, Native Hawaiians, Chamorros, and American Samoans), as well as persons from Canadian First Nations and Indigenous communities in Mexico and Central and South America who are U.S. residents."

If you got a beef, take it up with the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"Native American, also called American Indian, Amerindian, Amerind, Indian, aboriginal American, or First Nation person, member of any of the aboriginal peoples of the Western Hemisphere, although the term often connotes only those groups whose original territories were in present-day Canada and the United States."

If you got a beef, take it up with Merriam Webster:

"Definition of Native American
: a member of any of the indigenous peoples of the western hemisphere especially : a Native American of North America and especially the U.S. "

Marty Simmon
6/1/2021 02:13:02 pm

I think you are confused Kent. In the gardening world the tomato is often referred to as a tender perennial and most of these types of plants are grown as an annual outside of their original environment. If i could drop a tomato seed on the ground here in Illinois and do nothing more than wait for it to grow tomatoees and die and regenerate and produce the same volume of tomatoes reliably on an annual basis it would have saved me a lot of time, effort, and expense over the last 21 years.

marty simmon
6/3/2021 07:41:31 am

Old Macdonald Obvious I did not see your post mentioning volunter tomato plants. That is the viable way to possibly produce additional tomato plants from a single plant. That is, if simply dropping a seed in the ground results in a viable plant to begin with. And that plant produces fruit that is left in place to rot and drop seeds in place.It is a roll of the dice. No volunteers may sprout or several may sprout clustered together. They would still require care by culling and spacing plants and the use of water and fertilizer and periodic weeding as needed. The tomato is a tender perennial and cannot be expected to automatically grow out of a single planting like a Hosta.

Little Big Man
5/4/2021 02:26:33 pm

Santorum walks back comments.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/551621-santorum-on-comments-about-native-american-culture-i-misspoke

Reply
T. Franke link
5/4/2021 04:57:32 pm

No, Rick Santorum did not walk back his comments.

He instead clarified that his comments were exactly meant in that way as I understood them here: Concerning the core of American culture, concerning the founding, etc.

Rick Santorum only "mispoke" if taking some of his words out of context. As some obviously have done. Also in this forum. Which is not Gentlemanlike. If read in context, and done here from the beginning, Rick Santorum was and is right, and no clarification is needed.

Reply
Jim
5/5/2021 01:10:07 am

T Franke:

"He instead clarified that his comments were exactly meant in that way as I understood them here: Concerning the core of American culture."

Rick Santorum:

"They have a huge impact, particularly in the West and many other areas of the country, where they have a huge impact on American culture. I was talking about — and I misspoke in this respect — I was talking about the founding and the principles embodied in the founding," Santorum added. "The way we treated Native Americans was horrific."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/551621-santorum-on-comments-about-native-american-culture-i-misspoke

(Link by Little Big Man)

P.S Franke, I removed the last part of your sentence in the quote and replaced the comma with a period because I deemed it unnecessary, hope you don't mind.
Turnabout is fair play and all that.

Kent
5/5/2021 06:17:57 pm

Someone who was good at editing would have replaced the period with an ellipsis. But who am I kidding? Jim.

Enrolled and educated
5/5/2021 06:23:48 pm

Principles? Like respect for women and letting them control their own bodies and property or having a say in the political process. Or tolerance for different belief systems? Or LGBT people being treated like humans?. Respect for the environment? Or honoring formal political agreements? Hah! These were not PRINCIPLES but PRACTICES among many Native Americans while white Americans and Europeans were failing to live up to the ideals of the Enlightenment or leaving everyone out who wasn't a straight, white, christian male.

It is true. The womens rights movement was directly inspired by Native American PRACTICE. There has been cooperation between the pan-Native American Two-Spirit community and the LGBT rights community for decades now. The ideologies of Indigenous peoples across the globe have helped to fuel environmentalism.

Santorum was way offbase when he "Mispoke" and remained offbase with his "clarification." Loudmouths half a world away who know nothing of American and Native American history should learn their own history instead of looking like utter fools by trying to lecture Americans who know their history and culture.

Never again will I listen to Europeans brag about their high standards of education and knowledge of the world without sneering.

Jim
5/7/2021 05:05:23 pm

Kent:
"Someone who was good at editing would have replaced the period with an ellipsis. But who am I kidding? Jim."

Big old jumbo jet just flew over your head Kent, I think you quite missed the point.

Dont feed the trolls
5/7/2021 10:39:52 pm

Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ. Have some of you idiots listened to Santorum's entire speech or read the relevant comments in context?

Frank said that almost nothing in the way of Native American influences can be found in American culture. Joe Kent asked for examples of Native American influences on American culture besides hippies or some governer. They have been given dozens of examples of these influences. They have now moved the goalposts of the discussion to the point that they are outside of the stadium in the parking lot.

Santorum stated that the early settlers came here seeking religious freedom, personal liberty, tolerance, etc. and then attributed the development of all American culture exclusively to those European people. The true statement that many people came here based on particular valued principles is a different issue from the notion that they were entirely responsible for the development of American culture. It's a disconnect in logic.

Furthermore, many people came here because they were forced to do it or were seeking to make their fortune here. In many instances they were just as intolerant as the societies that they left. Two generations after the Pilgriim arrived they were hanging people as witches. Two generations after the settlers arrived in Jamestown, chattel slavery of non-whites was increasingly commonplace and laws prohibiting interracial marriage were being implemented.

Santorum made strange assertions about some cultures evolving while others didn't that are totally nonsensical.

Santorum and the people supporting him here are wrong at every level of discourse.

They are trolling. Ignore them.

Doc Rock
5/8/2021 12:55:15 pm

This horse is now so thoroughly tenderized that a toothless man could have fine dining. A few observations before bowing out of what is turning into another exercise in silliness.

I would urge caution to Team Obvious in assuming that all Native American groups were the same. Let others paint with mile-wide brush strokes. But, yes, as others have noted, the literature in anthropology and ethnohistory suggest that the status and freedom of women in many of these societies was superior to that of Europe or at least on par with it.

It is worth noting that the status and rights of Native American women actually declined after colonization as they were rather forcefully pushed into accepting "core principles" of the Europeans. Christianity with a male-centered hierarchy sometimes replaced traditional systems that demonstrated a certain degree of equality. Also, the cultural principles introduced by the colonists were in the ballpark with that of "Germany" and other nations associated with WASP values. Especially when it came to principles related to gender.To build on what others have said, in traditional and formal law women, their children, and their property were considered to belong to the husband. Birth control was illegal or prohibited by religious strictures. I was surprised to learn that spousal rape was not outlawed in Germany until the 1990s.

Then there is the whole gay and transgender thing. The last time that I checked the literature, the "two-spirit" tradition (once referred to as the berdache tradition, by the way) was accepted and respected in over half of Native American societies. I don't think that Europe could top that in terms of tolerance.

Europeans, especially Germans, slaughtered one another by the millions during the colonial era because of religious intolerance. Blind conformity to their "tribe" and lack of individuality and freedom and tolerance toward minorities in Germany led to the Holocaust. So, I can understand the frustration with being lectured by someone from another nation who obviously has not spent any time in the states and is incredibly poorly read relative to his aggressive argument style. Yet who portrays Native Americans as lacking freedom or not having great influence on American culture. Santorum did say the latter and all the spin in the world won't change that. Why people continue to defend a position that has been retracted hints at a bit of mental emotional instability or just as bad case of bruised ego getting in the way of a coherent discussion.

I will now yield the floor to what looks to be a new version of the kiddie table.

Kent
5/8/2021 11:11:47 pm

So, as a self-professed drinker, how do you account for the babies born at Auschwitz? Why did it take the notoriously efficient Germans more than nine months to killl tne pregnant Jewesses? And then fail to kill the babies?

T. Franke link
5/9/2021 10:54:43 am

Doc Rock, you mix a terrible cocktail of undifferentiated pseudo-history. You go on to confuse cultural and religious specialties and their advantages (and disadvantages) with the ideas of the Enlightenment. You have to be very very uneducated to do this.

But especially a word on the Holocaust. You wrote: "Blind conformity to their "tribe" and lack of individuality and freedom and tolerance toward minorities in Germany led to the Holocaust." -- I am very sorry, but this is wrong. Factually wrong. If this was the cause of the Holocaust, then many Holocausts should have happened throughout the world and history. But it did happen only once. At least so far.

The Holocaust happened because of a pseudoscientific understanding of Darwinism and genetics (biologism) which had crept into the minds of many in these times, which prepared the field, plus the special fanaticism of Hitler and his company which went way beyond any degree of anti-semitic mood in the population. Therefore, the Holocaust had to happen in secret and it happened in secret. It was not announced in newspapers. Newspapers told the population that the Jews were resettled in new towns, and farewell letters of Jews to their friends express exactly this expectation. There is a story of Dutch Jews who arrived in a death camp and spent applause to an SS officer who apologized for the unpleasent journey, and that they will live in comfort, soon, only they had to take a shower first, ... they believed it. Because everybody believed this, in these days, and what really happened was simply unbelievable, if you hadn't seen it with your own eyes. Rumours about unbelievable things (important to realize the unbelievability of such rumours) started to spread after a while, but certainty about the unbelievable came only with the end of the war.

The root cause of the Holocaust was not nationalism. Many German Jews were ardent nationalists themselves, and fought vigorously in World War I, and even voted for Hitler (yes, and this says a lot). The root cause is pseudoscience plus fanaticism.

I suggest to read Hannah Arendt, "The origins of totalitarianism". It is sad that you missed the pseudoscientific point on the Holocaust in this forum of a blog dedicated to debunk pseudoscience.

And I am really thinking about stop writing here, because this level of conversation is way too low for me. The audience of this blog is pseudoscientific to a deplorable degree. The audience of this blog is not interested in debunking errors, but in promoting a certain political agenda. You believe the silliest things only because you like them, and cannot grasp the most easy ideas, only because you dislike them. I am not your intellectuall nanny. If you want to be educated you will achieve this goal only by reading and understanding some books, not by discussing in a blog forum. And you have to get rid off your partisanship.

Bigoted European Explorer Obvious
5/9/2021 01:24:43 pm

Berdache is a derogatory term introduced to the Americas by Europeans who lacked the understanding or tolerance for indigenous religious and cultural systems that acknowledged transgendered peoples and alternative sexualities.

Santorum harps on values but American society is just now catching up with Indian principles of tolerance for the gay annd transgender community that have always been here. He does share core values and principles with the early colonists who treated homosexuality as a capital crime. At least he is consistent.

Jim
5/15/2021 09:45:51 am

T Franke:

"But especially a word on the Holocaust. You wrote: "Blind conformity to their "tribe" and lack of individuality and freedom and tolerance toward minorities in Germany led to the Holocaust." -- I am very sorry, but this is wrong. Factually wrong. If this was the cause of the Holocaust, then many Holocausts should have happened throughout the world and history. But it did happen only once. At least so far."

Wow !!!,,,,what a disconnect between this:
"Blind conformity to their "tribe" and lack of individuality and freedom and tolerance toward minorities in Germany led to the Holocaust."
and this "if this was the cause of the Holocaust, then many Holocausts should have happened throughout the world and history. But it did happen only once."
That makes no sense, nor does it apply any sort of logic whatsoever, also it is so completely off base factually it is ridiculous.

By the bye, here is an incomplete list of genocides (Holocausts) that T Frank apparently claims never happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

cenk obvious
5/16/2021 10:36:33 am

Now Franke and Joe Kent argue that a long list of examples of genocides weren't really genocides.

The Holocaust in Germany was a perfect storm of an absence of tolerance, individuality, freedom and accountability. The traits and values that Herr Franke claims were absent among indigenous peoples of North America. That is why the events in Germany are thought of as "The" Holocaust even though it was one of many throughout history.

Make a false claim and then continually argue against all evidence to the contrary while continually moving the goalpost. The only page in Franke's playbook.





Jeff Bishop
5/4/2021 04:21:53 pm

Thank you Jason.

1) Rick "I need a sanitarium" - Is a tremendous example of why the USA is in such trouble. While currently not an elected official he does have "voice". When the citizenry begin to elect competent, informed, sane persons we may expect an improvement in Gov't.

Marjorie Taylor ? - Not exactly what I was referring too.

Are the intellectuals on this board as puzzled and confused as I am about the qualifications of elected officials? Especially since 2016 - 2020?

OUT

Reply
M.D.
5/4/2021 08:35:28 pm

Many Americans would not be alive today if their ancestors had not been able to borrow medical knowledge from Native Americans in the form of the knowledge of the use of plants to treat everything from infection to malaria. Some of this knowledge was used in the development of modern pharmaceuticals.

https://unitedplantsavers.org/the-original-medicinal-plant-gatherers-conservationists/

Andrew Jackson led a military campaign to displace the Creeks who lived in large villages and practiced agriculture. He grew up not far from the traditional territory of the Cherokee who led similar lifestyle and had even developed a writing system and operated newspapers. His claim that Native Americans were nothing more than a handful of hunters was intellectually dishonest. He was part of a land grab to open the southeastern U.S. to cotton and tobacco farming by whites.

Reply
Queen Anne
5/15/2021 04:57:44 pm

In the essay by Dina Gilio-Whitaker, "Native American Influence on the founding of the U.S.:

[Benjamin] Franklin seemed impressed by the Iroquois political system and noted: "for all their government is by the Council or advice of the sages; there is no force, there are no prisons, no officers to compel obedience, or inflict punishment. Hence they generally study oratory; the best speaker having the most influence" in his eloquent description of government by consensus. He also elaborated on Indians' sense of courtesy in Council meetings and compared them to the raucous nature of the British House of Commons.

Dick Santorum is an idiot.



Reply
Ralphie boy
5/28/2021 09:45:16 am

Rick santorum may be an insufferable prick, but you are suffering from the irony of cultivating your own culture of racism here on your site, (And authoring some of the posts yourself) and now being labeled one of ‘them’ by extremists among the racists.

Reply
Bon Scott
5/28/2021 08:10:12 pm

We are just itching to see you offer a coherent commentary that articulates how taking issue here with Santorum's idiotic comments is in any way a manisfestation of racism. Or are you just pissed off and confused without understanding why you are in this state and so just feel obligated to say something?

Reply
Normandie Kent
6/8/2021 02:04:14 am

The Oldest set of remains found Bacho Kiro Cave in Bulgaria Europe were 45,000 yrs old aren’t even ancestral to modern day Europeans, but to modern day Native Americans.. Some of the oldest remains found in both Europe and Asia are more closely related to present day Native Americans. In fact, The modern day Europeans didn’t even exist until a mere 4,500 yrs ago in the late Neolithic, early Bronze Age, so there is literally no way Frank from Queens or Scott Wolter are even distantly related to the Solutrean People, even if his white Solutrean fantasy was true, the Native Americans were already genetically distinct 30,000 years ago and already in the front doorway into the Americas, unlike modern Europeans who wouldn’t even exist for another 25,000 years. They weren’t even a twinkle in their fatherlands eye.🤣🤣🤣 Frank from Queens isn’t even Native to Europe much less the Americas.😂😂😂GTFO!!!

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