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Scott Wolter and J. Hutton Pulitzer Rehash the "Missing" Copper of the Great Lakes

6/27/2016

71 Comments

 
As part of the new XpLrR partnership between Scott Wolter and J. Hutton Pulitzer, the two men have agreed to do a 39-part series in which they rehash each old episode of Wolter’s 2012-2015 TV series America Unearthed. As a testament to how little planning went into this first product of the pair’s joint venture, the first two reviews appeared on Pulitzer’s Soundcloud channel as audio podcasts, while this, the third edition, appeared as a grainy webcam livestream video on Pulitzer’s private Facebook page, to an audience of approximately 300 people, before being uploaded to YouTube with a bombastic set of opening graphics that saddle Wolter with Pulitzer’s self-styled moniker, naming them both “History Heretics.” (He also ascribed to Wolter one of his own Twitter handles rather than Wolter’s Twitter handle.) Despite this being an XpLrR production, Pulitzer wears his Treasure Force hat and brands the video with the Treasure Force logo alongside the XpLrR title card. (Note: This is the pyramid logo, not the steampunk one of his own face that he used for Treasure Force: Commander’s Quest.) Pulitzer is never exactly “on brand,” but the sheer number of different brands he throws together make him one of the most ineffective fringe marketers I’ve ever seen.
Technology is not these men’s friend. The audio drops in and out. At one point, Wolter turned off his webcam by mistake. The screen capture Pulitzer uses is primitive, and seems to be a camera physically recording a computer screen it is aimed at, rather than a video capture of video output. Over time, the computer or the camera seem to move, and the image takes on a larger and larger Dutch angle, making the two look like villains from the beloved 1966-1968 Batman series. King Tut and Louie the Lilac? I’m not sure.

But since they have branded their chats with their poorly designed XpLrR logo, I suppose I should start branding my reviews with something more attractively designed.
Picture
There. Now it feels all professional and serious. The little red circle can change to represent whatever they are talking about. Today it is Minoans, so we have a Minoan royal symbol.

The XpLrR livestream discussion, which aired Saturday afternoon on Facebook, right after Wolter “got out of the shower,” discusses America Unearthed S01E03 “Great Lakes Copper Heist.” Pulitzer says that at this point America Unearthed had “great reviews,” which I know to be untrue since there were virtually no reviews except mine, and I wasn’t very keen on it.
 
Wolter restates many of the false claims of the episode, particularly the allegation that massive amounts of copper—1.5 billion pounds—had been removed from Lake Superior and that Native Americans could not have been responsible. As I discussed three years ago, there is no missing copper, and the claims for missing copper are false, invented by some fringe historians in the 1960s. As Dr. Susan R. Martin explained a long time ago, “The mythic calculations involve the numbers and depths of copper extraction pits, the numbers and weights of stone hammers, the percentage volume of copper per mining pit, the numbers of miners, and the years of mining duration.” Early fringe writers made wild assumptions about these numbers and generated a fake number that neither Wolter nor Pulitzer understands the origin of.
 
Wolter then asserts that archaeologists refuse to acknowledge the missing copper and are actively conspiring to reject Wolter’s views. “It’s silly,” he said. Pulitzer agrees with Wolter and says that archaeologists are required to explain where the “missing” copper went, even though said copper is not missing. Wolter asserts that there were brass artifacts found in Native mounds, particularly the Bat Creek mounds, which proves that Europeans came to America. Such artifacts are almost certainly planted by the same hoaxer who made the Bat Creek Stone. As Ken Feder explained in the Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology, the brass bracelets are chemically identical to nineteenth century English brass bracelets (and earlier ones, too, as must be noted), and no one witnessed their recovery except for the alleged nineteenth century hoaxer.
 
What is astonishing is that these two blowhards are entirely unfamiliar with the scholarly arguments against their claims, even to criticize those arguments. They have only anger and bluster.
 
About 18 minutes in, Wolter decides to discuss behind the scenes scuttlebutt about the program, which is of little interest except to America Unearthed die-hards. Pulitzer tries to pull back to blasting archaeologists for not accepting radiocarbon dates that would put people in the Great Lakes copper mines around 6000 to 8000 BCE. “It’s completely illogical,” Wolter says. “The reason they don’t accept it is because they don’t like the results.” I admit that I wasn’t entirely clear what radiocarbon dating they were talking about, and they blather on so much that the facts tend to get lost amidst the howling.
 
Wolter subtly twists the evidence presented on his old show. In the episode, he identified the Great Lakes copper with that of the Minoans because his laboratory analysis of Michigan copper found that it was 99% pure, the same level of purity found in Minoan copper, but now he changes the story and alleges that “trace element analysis” shows that the two are identical. He declines to provide reports of these trace elements to prove the assertion, or which Minoan artifacts he tested that did not appear in the TV show’s presentation of the data Wolter refers to here. I’m comfortable concluding from this that he is intentionally misrepresenting his show’s 99% purity test.
 
Pulitzer next introduces the allegation that there are “ox-hide ingots” found in North America, despite the fact that the alleged ox-hide ingots of America are not the same as their European counterparts. Both men allege that there is a cover-up to prevent examination of these objects, which are mostly chunks of metal promoted by the Ancient Artifact Preservation Society, a fringe group in the Midwest, and Ancient American magazine, a fringe publication, as Andy White explored last year.
 
Wolter says that he has “heard” that the Minoans buried their copper during the winter because they couldn’t transport it, which is why we sometimes find large chunks of copper in the ground, for like squirrels with their nuts the Minoans occasionally forget where they stored their caches.
 
Wolter delivers a very long discussion about how he investigates artifacts, and he explains a case where a viewer tried to pass off a fabricated site as ancient and Wolter exposed the hoax. Around this point I started to notice that even though this episode was about Minoan copper miners from Crete, Pulitzer keeps bringing up the Middle East and making reference to what he can only mean to be Hebrew inscriptions and Jewish artifacts. It’s a strange but subtle undercurrent that is in tension with Wolter’s oblivious bluster.
 
After a long diatribe about where treasure hunters could find the best copper artifacts—not presented as such, but the clear conclusion viewers are meant to take from Pulitzer’s questions—Wolter explains that archaeologists need to stop being so damned certain about the past. “Why do they have this burning desire to draw a definitive conclusion every time you ask them a question?” he asks. Clearly, Wolter has never read academic literature, or else he would understand the provisional nature of archaeological conclusions, and the fact that there is a difference between data and inferences. Pulitzer notes that archaeologists “are not required to try their theories in a (legal) case,” while “forensic geologists” must prove their cases in a court of law. That’s not at all how forensic geology works, or even how law cases work. Expert witnesses are not the actors with the burden of proof in a legal case.
 
Pulitzer finishes the show by inviting viewers to attend the upcoming Ancient American magazine and AAPS conference this October, where both men plan to present alongside former American Nazi party leader Frank Joseph. Pulitzer also tells viewers to stop paying attention to academics and instead research American archaeology from nineteenth century journals and magazines, which he considers to be more honest about diffusionism and less “politically correct.” Pulitzer says that by doing so, one will become convinced that people from the “Ancient Middle East” once colonized America—even though that’s not at all what Wolter’s imaginary Minoan copper miners “prove” at all.
 
It seems that Pulitzer’s end game is to convince the world that America was founded by Israelites to the glory of God. Hosanna in the highest; we are living in the Holy Land of the Chosen People.
71 Comments
Andy White
6/27/2016 01:04:00 pm

Pulitzer's declaration about a year ago that he had discovered "smoking gun evidence that the Minoans discovered America" was a dress rehearsal for the Roman sword debacle. I can't wait to see who's next.

http://www.andywhiteanthropology.com/blog/research-hint-writing-minoan-on-photographs-of-native-american-remains-does-not-actually-prove-they-are-minoan

Reply
Charles Hambleton
6/29/2016 05:19:26 am

In my experience with Jeffry Jovon (aka Hutton Pulitzer) he has, consistently and to the the detriment of not just history but the best treasure Finders in the world adapted an agenda that not only speaks to his naresism, greed, and inability to discover historical truth (of which we have) ..... I'm sure you know what I mean.... It's sad man that can type quickly and can be so persuasive and manipulative ... I'll give the details if you contact me .... I have found shipwrecks, ancient sites, and things that can only be discussed in person ..contact me ...just call Scott Mithcen - The Real Treasure finder (Hutton will love that (Ha ) ...He actually knows what's up without scamming ..... It's a shame that Jeffery's Biz acumen is not just self serving ...
I look forward to meeting you and at least converse before....
All the Best,
-CMH

Reply
Joe Scales
6/27/2016 01:12:11 pm

Considering that Wolter can't tell the difference between silver and lead (Pirate Treasure of the Knights Templar Debacle), perhaps he should avoid metals altogether...

Reply
Andy White
6/27/2016 01:13:53 pm

Pulitzer said the brass on the "Roman sword" was gold, so there you go.

Reply
Joe Scales
6/27/2016 11:58:21 pm

Perhaps the next academic conspiracy these two unmask will involve the Periodic Table?

Bob Jase
6/29/2016 08:09:06 am

And it was before those meddling alchemists butted in.

Uncle Ron
6/27/2016 01:27:28 pm

"Scott Wolter and J. Hutton Pulitzer . . . have agreed to do a 39-part series in which they rehash each old episode of Wolter’s 2012-2015 TV series America Unearthed."

I wanted to do one of those "That's as bad as the time . . ." segues like on "Family Guy" but I couldn't think of anything bad enough.

Reply
DaveR
6/27/2016 01:34:13 pm

That's as bad as that time he was on a series called America Unearthed.

Reply
Only Me
6/27/2016 01:28:02 pm

This is why we should let W&P talk their heads off. They continuously demonstrate how little they actually understand about science and its disciplines.

@Andy White
I wonder if the reason why Pulitzer has so many "smoking guns" is because he keeps shooting himself in foot?

Reply
DaveR
6/27/2016 01:30:47 pm

All of this for the massive audience of around 300 people. It's no wonder America Unearthed got canceled.

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
6/27/2016 01:31:30 pm

If they'd only interviewed James Cagney they'd know that the missing copper was wearing cement shoes, see, at the bottom of the lake, see, that's what happens when you stick your nose where it don't belong.

Reply
DaveR
6/27/2016 03:39:51 pm

I can picture Wolter, standing proudly at the top of the Great Pyramid of Giza, shouting to the world:

"Made it Ma...Top of the World!"

Reply
Bob Jase
6/29/2016 08:10:27 am

And then the dust from the grain stored in the pyramid causes a huge explosion.

Scott Hamilton
6/27/2016 02:11:53 pm

Assuming I can get one comment in before this thread get buried under demands that we all agree Jesus wasn't real, do the believers in the "missing copper" ever explain why the Minoans didn't just get copper from a closer source than the interior of a continent across an ocean? Cyprus had plenty of copper at the time, and the there mines are still in use, so how could getting copper from America possibly be worth it when there was more copper than they could use a couple islands over?

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
6/27/2016 02:41:44 pm

Sad thing is that in Bronze Age sites it's not even copper that's hard to come by. Copper and iron are relatively easy to find in near-surface deposits. It's tin that was hard to find. Having access to an infinite amount of copper without tin to smelt it into bronze is kind of like running out of gas, only to find the first station's only able to air up your perfectly good tires. It solves a problem you didn't even have to begin with.

Reply
V
6/27/2016 04:51:04 pm

As far as I can tell, they just say that there "wasn't enough copper" in Europe to "fuel the copper age." Which, as you say, obvious untruth when there are still-operating copper mines in Europe today.

Reply
Mikey
6/27/2016 02:20:57 pm

How can Scott Walter associate himself with this fraud. He will lose all respect of the scientific community.

Reply
John
6/27/2016 02:43:35 pm

Sarcasm?

Reply
Only Me
6/27/2016 02:46:06 pm

That, um, assumes Wolter *had* any respect within the scientific community. That's highly unlikely given his wont to attack said community.

Reply
Time Machime
6/28/2016 05:11:03 am

Only Me does not have any respect in the scientific community if that person believes in miracles and raising from the dead stories in the Bible. This message is not "Off Topic"

Only Me
6/28/2016 11:00:49 am

>>>This message is not "Off Topic"<<<

Yes, it is. It's a personal attack and nothing more.

Time Machine
6/28/2016 11:21:53 am

Only Me,

You are not a rationalist and the things you believe in correspond with the type of material that Scott Wolter believes in, all of which is equally rejected by the scientific community,

You have never acknowledged that you are not a rationalist,

This is my final message on this Blog.

But probably not my last response to what appears on the Jason Colavito Blog. I will continue correct and rectify any mistakes that are made elsewhere.
.

Only Me
6/28/2016 11:30:37 am

You're still making a personal attack. That means it's still off-topic.

Time Machine
6/28/2016 11:33:43 am

I have copied a list of your messages where you have made personal attacks against me, you silly person.

Joe Scales
6/28/2016 12:04:42 am

Might want to google "birds of a feather" to explain it Mikey.

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Kal
6/27/2016 05:06:24 pm

So even though they had a TV show and claimed to be producers and all that, they didn't have someone with a basic understanding of Final Cut Pro or Photoshop and couldn't get their live stream onto some sort of media? They had to use a camera to film a camera! Ha. Even some lesser programs like Movie Maker have iPhone conversion by now. Were they using an old style vhs S 80 mm camcorder from 2004 or something? Hah ha.

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Oh No.....
6/27/2016 07:48:55 pm

Templar Freemasonry originated with Karl Gotthelf, Baron von Hund and not with Bernard-Raymond Fabré-Palaprat

This needs correcting
http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/looking-for-the-origins-of-the-templars-secret-knowledge-of-the-true-history-of-jesus

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Clint Knapp
6/27/2016 08:21:23 pm

First, plainly not me above. Now our troll is stooping to identify fraud.

Second, and the main reason I was posting:
"What is astonishing is that these two blowhards are entirely unfamiliar with the scholarly arguments against their claims, even to criticize those arguments."

That's just it, though. We know both men have been to your blog. We know they're both aware of the criticisms posted here, and it's not too much a stretch to assume that at least one of them obsessively Googles himself for daily updates on his detractors. The other, likely only gets second-hand reports from his pals.

Still, the point stands that both men must be aware of the criticisms and at this point are simply choosing to willfully ignore them in favor of their own narratives.

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Graham
6/27/2016 09:05:33 pm

From the looks of that it would appear that followup volumes to "Unearthing the Truth" covering the remaining seasons of "America Unearthed" might be in order

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flip
6/27/2016 09:23:39 pm

Jason, I just checked on the comments on the two previous posts and see they have been culled somewhat. I know it's your blog and your right to do that, but I'm just curious if I overstepped a mark somewhere? I'd rather learn from the experience than shrug my shoulders and pretend like the conversation never happened. Thanks, and apologies for derailing!

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Jason Colavito link
6/27/2016 09:26:41 pm

No, I am just trying to purge conversations of Time Machine's off-topic material. Your posts in response to those were deleted along with the rest of the conversations.

I'm getting tired of Time Machine's endless, repetitive, and off-topic posts, and I'm also getting annoyed with having to spend time deleting them.

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flip
6/27/2016 11:27:59 pm

Ok thanks. I was hoping that was the case. Sorry for encouraging more chaos on your end.

Clete
6/28/2016 12:44:24 am

Glad to see that you did that. Have you considered banning him from your comments section?

Not the Comte de Saint Germain
6/28/2016 02:07:07 am

As I understand it, the website's setup doesn't allow Jason to ban particular commenters or their IPs. He has the ability to close the comments sections on particular blog entries and to remove individual comments manually, but that's about it.

flip
6/28/2016 03:04:13 am

Maybe Jason should consider porting the blog to a different platform. Banning commenters and IPs is fairly basic functionality these days. They also come with import/export functions so you don't lose a thing in transition. ... But probably more trouble than it's worth in terms of having to redo any layout/design.

NOT OFF-TOPIC
6/28/2016 05:07:29 am

Could it be that I believe that the origin of human intelligence and human civilization lies in drugs and not in ancient astronauts - and that drugs are also the ultimate origin of all religions, as indicated in sacred texts and sacred artwork.

How again, are Biblical apologetic beliefs any different to those of Erich Von Daniken and Scott Wolter.

AND IT SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTED THAT THIS IS A BIBLICAL APOLOGETIC WEBSITE.

THIS IS MISSING,

Grim Reaper
6/28/2016 05:16:31 am

But the "Off-Topic" tool will always be used in order to delete the messages, And Jason Colavito will never promote himself as a Biblical Aplogetic skeptic because that would compromise his credibility.

Denise
6/28/2016 01:37:27 pm

Jason,

Thank you so much for purging Time Machine's repetitious, annoying, off topic, and sometimes offensive remarks. I was getting to the point of either being really snarky back or quitting this blog. Which I do not want to do. Please keep it up!

Time Machine
6/29/2016 08:36:49 am

Shut up, Denise. If Wolter can be criticised on this Blog then so can other people in exactly the same way.

Elmo Blatch
6/28/2016 05:36:10 am

Time Machine,

You know yourself that you cannot disclose the information. This is only a Blog. Leave these people and stop tormenting them.

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SCOTT
6/27/2016 09:27:38 pm

Both are frauds

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Killbuck
6/27/2016 10:29:47 pm

Having seen the alleged copper ingot, it bears a strong resemblance to one dug up by relatives once in the mining business. Now in my guestroom with the antique mining relics, I can confirm no Minoans were involved and is a natural copper formation.

They should dog a hole for their series, bury it and call it America Re-earthed.

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Dan
6/27/2016 11:12:52 pm

The original AU program was one of the first episodes I ever saw of the show and I think my attempt to do some basic research on these preposterous claims brought me here way back when. So AU wasn't all bad.

That being said, its one of my most favorite ridiculous claims -- that the Minoans were able to transport a "billion" pounds of copper from the Great Lakes to the Aegean Islands without a single trace of evidence of such of mass shipment ever being found. Nevermind the logistical impossibility of shipping such a large amount through the waterways of mid-America, the whole thing is just so silly, it forever colored my approach to watching Wolter's show and quickly made me realize that he wasn't just a scam artist, but not a particularly thoughtful one at that.

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Confused
6/28/2016 01:14:53 am

Forgive my ignorance but how exacly did they linked minoans and israel? Is there some obscure connection or did they took it stright from their behinds like the rest of their claims?

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Jason Colavito link
6/28/2016 06:28:41 am

No, they didn't link them at all. Pulitzer just kept mentioning the "ancient Middle East," seemingly at random. The only real connection is that they believe that the copper ended up in the hands of Israelites who turned it into brass and brought it back to Bat Creek, where they buried two bracelets along with the alleged Paleo-Hebrew inscription on the Bat Creek Stone.

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DaveR
6/28/2016 10:08:08 am

So they want us to believe that it was easier for people in the bronze age to travel across the Atlantic to find North America, and then travel hundreds of miles inland to discover the Great Lakes copper reserves, to bring the copper back to the ancient Middle East to smelt into bronze, and then bring two bracelets back to bury in a mound, as opposed to them just finding more copper locally.

They posit this theory despite any supporting evidence, well, evidence beyond hoaxes.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/28/2016 10:28:16 am

DaveR - What are you talking about? Everyone knows they also travelled a week further inland and built a small pyramid in a depression, as was revealed in the episode with the mini-sub!

Seriously, examining any of these ideas and going "WHY would they do this?" always fails the smell test.

DaveR
6/28/2016 11:33:59 am

I missed that episode, now it all ties together and makes perfect sense. They must have also built Stonehenge to help them navigate across the Atlantic westward, and then built the structures in Salem, NH to help them navigate eastward. We need at look at the ley lines because I'm sure that plays into their navigation as well.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/28/2016 01:05:35 pm

They were of course guided by the Proto-Cistercians, who also gave us the Three Wise Men.

The problem with talking like this is that you can typically mock something by just putting forward a more absurd, extreme version of it. But... how do you push the real thing to a more absurd position?

DaveR
6/28/2016 02:02:10 pm

That is the trick, indeed.

Peter Geuzen
6/28/2016 07:56:48 am

"The little red circle can change to represent whatever they are talking about. Today it is Minoans, so we have a Minoan royal symbol."

I thought it was the Herman Miller logo and you were going all mid-century modern Eames chair on us. Sorry if this is off topic :)

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Mike Morgan
6/28/2016 10:43:54 am

I believe this to be "on topic" since it pertains to the dynamic duo.

Pulitzer announced about 12 hours ago on his Facebook groups:

"WANT TO DIALOG DIRECTLY with Scott Wolter? Star of History Channel's (H2) America Unearthed and discuss The Kensington Runestone? JOIN US HERE and dialog directly with Scott and keep abreast of the new facts, finds, debate, exclusive footage, exclusive science and research. JOIN US HERE: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScottWolterAnswers/ ". ""Civil Discussion, Debate and Conversation regarding the Kensington Runestone - moderated by and answers from Scott Wolter of History Channel's (H2) "America Unearthed"".

Since Pulitzer is the administrator, I'm sure all those with opinions contrary to Scott Wolters official stance will be afforded the same graceful courtesy given to the dissidents on his other groups.

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Gunn link
6/28/2016 11:09:07 am

Hi Jason. As you may have noticed, I have not been able to get Scott Wolter interested in the Norse Code-stone I discovered just over a year ago, though the discovery is well-documented, with ample information and photos.

I have never met Wolter, and though we both believe in the authenticity of the Kensington Runestone, that's about where our individual beliefs end. For instance, I don't think he is very willing to accept the notion that a medieval land claim attempt is in evidence near Appleton, MN, since this doesn't seem to fit in with his own KRS land claim theory.

I would like to propose a challenge to you, Jason. As you and others know quite well, I am a self-admitted stonehole nut. I have taken the study of medieval stoneholes to the extreme edge...that is, to the extreme edge of accurate history up here in this MN region. In 2013 I stumbled upon a huge array of large-diameter stoneholes on a remote ridge overlooking where a river empties into the beginnings of the MN River. Most of these stoneholes turned out to be from a late 1800's railroad surveying crew, who made the holes to secure tent posts against a stiff wind. However, within this same locale, I also found several (4) "regular" triangular-shaped, small-diameter stonehole rocks, like some seen in both MN and nearby SD. I have photographic evidence of all of this.

I was stupefied by the dual nature of this stonehole discovery, and I did not revisit the site again until the spring of 2015, at which time I ventured out walking a bit farther from the site...and that's when I found the Norse Code-stone, with 3 small-diameter stoneholes in it. I didn't know what it meant until I placed flagged poles in the line of the small-diameter stonehole rocks on the nearby ridge and noticed that the spacing of the stonehole rocks was exactly as shown on the Code-stone. As it turns out, the Code-stone is showing the line of small-diameter stonehole rocks in miniature, and it appears to me that the Code-stone was left as a "backup" in case no one figured out the encoding on the ridge.

Not to belabor the point, but my professional "ferrous only" metal detector gets a very strong signal when passed over the spot that is indicated as having significance by the Code-stone. Nowhere else does it get a hit in the area, plus my regular metal detector won't get a hit...which means something made of metal is buried quite deeply.

My challenge to you, Jason, is to post a future blog heading to the subject of this so-called Norse Code-stone. I will give you any and all information about this odd stone, including its exact location, which I ask that you not make public. Additionally, if you can swing an extra summer vacation, I will personally escort you to the location of these medieval stoneholes, so that you can assess the situation first-hand.

Of course, I'm making this challenge/offer to you because I cannot get anyone with influencing ability to undertake a serious study of what I have discovered. It is on State land, and the official view of history here in MN is not favorable to the idea of medieval Norse exploration. I'm hoping you might be willing to post a blog heading dealing with the subject of this Code-stone in a fair and unbiased manner, which I believe you are capable of doing. Please visit my website and you will find links to all kinds of information about stoneholes and waterways and the Code-stone. I am willing to answer any questions you may have, and I have many, many excellent photos I can share with you and your readers. I am basically appealing to your backgrounds in journalism and archaeology to do a fair blog heading, and I sincerely believe that your input might cause some persons to consider what I'm offering as valid enough to warrant a rapid and in depth, professional inquiry as to what is buried. My own feelings is that it is related to medieval European surveying and attempted land up-taking of a fairly massive scale, involving at least the MN River watershed.

If nothing else, you and your readers may find out that the study of medieval stoneholes isn't boring, especially when considering that the KRS itself was found surrounded by these enigmatic evidences dating back to 1362...and probably well before, in the case of the Code-stone stoneholes farther west by the SD border. Please keep in mind that the reason for the Code-stone being in this region is because this is the area where waterways which begin at ocean sources meet, completing a huge waterway circle reaching deep into America's interior.

In this case, Jason, you may be able to help promote truth-in-history as I believe the public will come to know it. It may not seem like a big deal to you, overall, but if history books need to be updated to better reflect the truth, then it will be a big deal...at least, to those in this upper Midwest region.

Thanks for your consideration in getting this supposed Norse Code-stone up for evaluation, with the hope t

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Gunn
6/28/2016 11:11:51 am

Thanks for your consideration in getting this supposed Norse Code-stone up for evaluation, with the hope that whatever is buried on the lonely ridge will reveal a thing or two about just who buried it there so very long ago

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Denise
6/28/2016 01:54:19 pm

Hey Gunn,

Just thinking that an physical archaeologist might fit your needs more than Jason could? On the ground physically I mean. Would this be more of an Andy White challenge? Are there any legible runes on the stone, or is it just a code? Just curious.

Andy White
6/28/2016 04:32:58 pm

I'm interested in the stone holes because they seem to have become a "one size fits all" piece of physical evidence that is used to support various claims. Do you have data on the locations (e.g., UTM coordinates) and dimensions of the holes? I can think of many reasons to bore holes in rocks.

Andy White
7/1/2016 07:11:12 am

Gunn,

Without some kind of spatial or quantitative data to work with, I lose interest in these sorts of things pretty quickly. The problem of having many stone holes with several possible origins means you can't really move on to the interpretation phase confidently until you've sorted out which sub-group of holes is of interest. How do you know which ones are "genuine"? Forgive me if all this is on a website somewhere.

Gunn
7/1/2016 10:12:02 am

Andy, I answered your question in my response to Mark L., below.

There are only two eras represented at the site, not several, and I have moved on to the interpretation phase quite confidently. I'm glad you see through the glass darkly, as you have hit upon a great problem it took me some time to overcome...that of being able to distinguish exactly between the two eras of stonehole rocks.

My first discovery of this "embarrassment of riches" came about late in 2013 after making inquiries about possible stonehole oddities in the region, of local persons. I was told about a place, vaguely, with perplexity, and then located the site after a few visits to a remote ridge-line overlooking where the Pomme de Terre discharges into the MN River. Andy, I could give you precise details of the location, but for what purpose? I have publicly offered to escort the blog host to the location, which is about as good as I can do here in this public forum. I will extend my offer of taking you to the site, personally, with the stipulation that you not reveal the location. I'm trying to carefully balance physical, historical information with caution.

Here is a quick summation of the events surrounding this important discovery:

The stonehole site was discovered in 2013.

I was perplexed and did not re-visit the site in 2014.

I discovered the Code-stone in early 2015.

I tried to have the site professionally examined in 2015/16.

Whatever one thinks, something made of iron or steel is deeply buried where both a medieval Code-stone and modern technology agree that something is buried. This is indisputable, and very meaningful...while looking through the glass darkly.

Thanks for your continued interest.

Denise
6/28/2016 02:01:38 pm

Were medieval stoneholes for surveying purposes or indicating buried items? If for surveying, could this tradition have continued into more modern times. now I am off topic....sorry

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Denise
6/28/2016 02:11:50 pm

I'm sorry to all to keep this up....but some of my earlier studies were on early colonial stone fortifications and how they evolved from medieval structures where stone holes were used as murdering holes and left as permanent fixtures in the structure for scaffolding and fighting platforms. Obviously different terminology is being used here? Sorry for my confusion.

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Gunn
6/28/2016 08:55:12 pm

Thank you for your comments, Denise and Andy. I'm always glad when anyone takes what seems to be a sincere interest in stoneholes, instead of dismissing them offhand. I'll try to answer your questions in a succinct manner, but first I will attempt to be somewhat on topic by suggesting that the Copper Harbor petroglyph of a sailing vessel seen here
http://www.hallmarkemporium.com/kensingtonrunestone/id21.html

may very well be depicting a medieval Norse vessel on the way to MN to carve some stoneholes, perhaps even with the same chisel used to carve this Norse ship, sporting snake-heads at each end. (No...this is not a Minoan, BC ship used to haul copper back to the far side of Earth.)

Denise, I tried to get the MN State Archaeologist interested in the Code-stone last year before he retired, to no avail. He let it be known to me in no uncertain terms that he believed no Europeans were in this MN region before the 1600's French. He could not be swayed. I wrote to his replacement several months ago and never even got an answer. I tried to interest a few archaeologists in Duluth, but they bombed on me, like I was Michael Douglas in "The King of California," where he played a nut looking for Spanish gold. So, I have gotten nowhere with professional archaeologists, but thanks for the suggestion. Perhaps I should pursue this further, though, in some way.

No, there are no runes on the Code-stone. It is deceptively simple in the message it gives, however. The intended purpose of the stone is that of a "back-up" stone that was purposely made to show in miniature a pattern of stonehole rocks on the ridge-line, which were encoded to conceal something deliberately buried back in medieval times--probably well before the era of the Kensington Runestone.

Please read this article I wrote for the "Norwegian American Weekly" a few months ago, which tells much more about the stonehole code-stone I found:

http://www.norwegianamerican.com/opinion/in-defense-of-the-kensington-runestone-a-code-stone/

At the above site, you will also find "opinion" pieces by me about medieval Scandinavian waterways into the heart of America and also one about stoneholes, which was the basis article for the other two. Additionally, I think you may have access to a pdf presentation about the Norse Code-stone here at the bottom of this other page on my humble little website:

http://www.hallmarkemporium.com/kensingtonrunestone/id36.html

Andy, stoneholes in rocks are definitely not "one size fits all." However, most of the genuinely medieval ones are about quarter-sized and several inches deep. Most. But there are also rarer smaller-diameter stoneholes, which I present photos of in my Code-stone presentation. The Norse Code-stone has the small-diameter holes in it, along with the several other stonehole rocks associated with the encoding on the ridge. There are also baseball-sized, fancy star-shaped stoneholes not to be confused by, made by machine during the late 1800's, in association with surveying...but for tent post placement.

So, Andy, in essence, the site on the ridge has two groupings of stoneholes all mixed together, but from two different eras. But, apparently, both instances of stonehole-making had to do with surveying. But, I believe the earlier, medieval stonehole-making also had to do with concealing something buried (what?). Lastly, historically-speaking, the Norse enjoyed using codes.

Andy, I broke this simple code by coming to understand the nature of stoneholes in this region, and by putting myself in the shoes of the medieval Scandinavian code-maker who wanted whatever was buried to be found. I sincerely believe there is no better chance of finding something both European and medieval in this region...possibly something even more significant than the Kensington Runestone itself.

It is a pity I can't get anyone interested in helping me. There seems to be no help from either the Fringe Camp or the Professional Camp; however, I'm holding out for a long-overdue professional dig, which will keep provenance intact. Thanks again for your interest.

Mark L
6/29/2016 06:44:54 am

Gunn, I appreciate its interest to you, but have you considered that these holes are just part of the late 1800s holes you found previously? Balance of probabilities and all that.

Gunn
6/29/2016 11:40:49 am

Mark L, that is a good, honest question. Thank you. Within my offering of photos are two examples of the small-diameter stoneholes exhibited on the ridge, but at different locations, one just across the border in SD (near Wilmot), and the other on the so-called Viking Altar Rock (googleable) located near Sauk Lake, MN. These stoneholes all also exhibit the medieval "triangular shape" made by chiseling out a stonehole by hand. These several small-diameter stonehole rocks on the ridge are the same as the two examples in both SD and MN, and they are mixed in with late 1800's examples.

It took a long time, but through research I was finally able to discover that the large stoneholes on the ridge were for holding tent posts. In fact, some of these larger stoneholes are exactly vertical and show a "structure" pattern...which turned out to be the outlines of a tent. I found a late 1800's photo of a surveying crew by Glenwood, MN, which clearly shows a sturdy tent post embedded into a rock.

So, all the stoneholes on the ridge are accountable for, from two different eras. It happens that the small-diameter stonehole rocks point to something being buried. If you dig enough into the resources I mentioned, above, you may find that one of the stonehole rocks in question had three stoneholes in it, originally. (I'm not referring to the Code-stone, which also has three stoneholes, but in a "disrupted" line.) This other very special rock had a chunk broken off from one of the stoneholes, so that, in effect, the four stonehole rocks besides the Code-stone all have two small-diameter holes in them, now. Where do you suppose the chunk of rock was removed to? Though I have not disturbed even the grass around a chunk of rock setting exactly where both the Code-stone and a deep-penetrating ferrous-only metal detector indicate something is buried, my guess is that this small chunk of rock will bear the mark of a split small-diameter stonehole. In other words, it appears that a chunk of rock was purposely broken off from one of the stonehole rocks (not in the line) and placed over whatever was buried.

With enough study (back in those medieval times), one could see this encoding on the ridge, but in case one could not see the encoding, a Code-stone was left a short distance away (about twenty-five yards), showing in miniature the situation on the nearby ridge.

The stoneholes on the Code-stone are peculiar in that the first hole is very shallow, maybe an inch, then the next one is twice as deep, then the third one is the deepest. As a would-be modern times code-breaker, I have taken this to mean: go down...dig.

Gunn
7/2/2016 05:23:08 pm

One of the problems for me, in this instance of the Norse Code-stone, is that the mystery surrounding its existence is so very esoteric in nature. But please make no mistake about the validity that comes with this mystery--which is the merging of historical data, in this case about stoneholes, with modern technology, which in this case is an expensive ferrous metal detector.

I'm saying that this is a situation where valid history and valid science have met...yes, on the fringes, where both medieval and modern times have merged together in a good, sound, harmonious manner, doubly showing where something is buried, possibly soon for all to see.

I'm happy to report that so far in presenting this newly found Norse Code-stone, I have met no substantive resistance concerning my facts, my photos, or my conclusions...and this is because true history has met and shaken hands with true science. But, unfortunately, these two hands are still clasped, not quite figuring out how to proceed....

Jason, I want to thank you for your openness and for your patience in this. (I noticed a marked absence of skepticism and/or criticism, too, from your readers, which I'm also grateful for.)

Karl
6/28/2016 02:54:11 pm

"Pulitzer also tells viewers to stop paying attention to academics and instead research American archaeology from nineteenth century journals and magazines, which he considers to be more honest about diffusionism and less 'politically correct.' "

We should stop with this 21st century standard of care for HIV/AIDS. Let's go back to the medical research from 1985 when journals were more honest about the science.

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Kensington Man
6/28/2016 03:57:48 pm

I'm one of the 800 members of the Kensington Runestone group on Facebook, as are Wolter and Pulitzer. When they post things the group essentially ignores them. Neither have credibility - they just seek attention and relevance but they both are considered clowns, especially Wolter with his discredited KRS aging work.

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justanotherskeptic
6/28/2016 05:09:43 pm

"Such artifacts are almost certainly planted by the same hoaxer who made the Bat Creek Stone." To that I have to ask: What does a hoaxer wish to gain from planting fake artifacts to an apparently obscure location if the artifacts are indeed fake? Personal satisfaction?

Reminds me a bit of the Roswell Stone popularized(?) in an Ancient Aliens episode.

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justanotherskeptic
6/28/2016 05:21:36 pm

BTW I'm baffled by the prospect (no pun intended) of 39 episodes to explain - aka rehash - each episode of "America Unearthed". Who would even think of producing these even if Pulitzer and Wolter underwrote this. I can get a better video output on my tablet with a brightly lit window behind me and a lousy microphone.

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Bob Jase
6/29/2016 08:14:31 am

To be positively nerdist I must point out that King Tut wasn't blue, that was Mr. Freeze. We all have our special fields of study.

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Denise
6/29/2016 02:43:46 pm

Hey again Gunn,

You have obviously put at lot of effort into this (and cudos to you for not disturbing the site, yay) and I can tell that you are frustrated. May I suggest a different approach? You obviously have a historic site here, be it a 1800s camp or what not. Perhaps if you where to study the site in its entirety for all possible uses and time periods.

In other words when you approach a potential archeological partner, don't talk about the code signs as your main goal, get as much historical data (like the 1800s stuff) and present a research study for the entire site and see if you can get someone to start with a geophysical survey of some sort (like ground penetrating radar) which will not disturb the site. Then if anything interesting pops up from those readings, perhaps then you can use that to request an ARPA permit (or whatever is required) for an actual archaeological survey.

I know this sounds like going in reverse, but if you approach more with an open sweep of "we know this a historic site, I would like to do a historic and archaeological study of the area to see the progression of (occupation, usage, whatever) of the site" without the code stone as the center piece, you may get a better response....and hey guess what? whether or not your theory holds up, you will have gone through proper channels, and you may find some real interesting history of the area, that no one thought of.

Anyway at the very least you should try to get the site registered into your statewide archaeological base map. That way the officials know there's a site, which will offer a veneer of protection.

Its just a suggestion. Again, I know off topic just trying to help.

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Gunn
6/30/2016 01:35:08 pm

Thanks Denise, that's some pretty good advice. I especially like the idea of using GPR, since it wouldn't disturb the site. The only problem here is that a chunk of rock about the size of half a basketball is sitting directly over the spot.

The situation on State land is tender. I've got a background in Criminal/Social Justice, so I can appreciate the finer points involved...for instance, one cannot go onto the property with the intention of digging, aside from the illegality of digging itself. In a photo, I propped up a small shovel just for illustrative purposes, though I had no intent to dig.

The land is presently undisturbed land set aside for quail habitat. I think it was Indian Reservation land before settlers came. But the good thing is that the landscape was never cleared of rocks and cultivated, so that it is as undisturbed today as it existed back in medieval times...right up until it was somewhat disturbed by the railroad surveying crew in the late l800's. Apparently, they made their own stoneholes (common at the time) without knowing anything about the origin of the small-diameter stoneholes. How ironic is this? And, they didn't catch the meaning of the encoding, since something made of iron or steel is still deeply buried there. Apparently, both surveying parties were there for the same reason, having to do with the Pomme de Terre River discharging into the Minnesota River (Marsh Lake).

As an aside, I just found a wealth of information in another of H. Holand's books, which may relate to an iron object I found at Runestone Hill after a windstorm uprooted a tree mere yards from where the KRS was found. If you don't mind, I would like you to read my page about the iron object, and then consider what Holand had to say about malleable pig iron, with many references. That object is currently is the custody of the Douglas County Surveyor's Office. I paid to have metallurgy tests done on it, and the results are posted on this page, along with Holand's take on medieval iron:

http://www.hallmarkemporium.com/kensingtonrunestone/id25.html

Thanks again.

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