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Scott Wolter Hunts Templars in Scottish Cave Graffiti for Planned Return to TV

2/5/2019

81 Comments

 
Picture
​Two different correspondents reported to me recently that America Unearthed host Scott F. Wolter was in Scotland this past week filming a new episode of his onetime H2 series, which now airs in reruns on the Travel Channel. While no formal announcement has been made about where or when the new episodes will air, it’s unlikely that the show’s production company, Committee Films, would foot the bill without an agreement in place. I asked the Travel Channel for information about their plans for the series and about some of the controversies associated with its past episodes, but they did not respond to my emailed request for comment and did not return a voice mail left with their public relations coordinator.
​Wolter and his crew were shooting at Well Cave in East Wemyss in Fife. The caves contain ancient carvings of Pictish origin dating back as far back as the Bronze Age. Wolter was filming in a location known for its extensive nineteenth century graffiti. Well Cave, which was thought to contains no Pictish carvings, had previously been featured in a 2004 episode of Time Team.
 
Among the hundreds of nineteenth century carvings in the cave, Wolter is particularly interested in a carving he told locals that he will link to the Knights Templar. The carving, showing a straight line crossed by three perpendicular lines beside a curved line all enclosed in a circle, cannot be absolutely dated. Local heritage experts who examined the carving in 2012 suggested it could be medieval in origin, perhaps from the twelfth century. Based on reports that Knights Templar had been in the area in the Middle Ages, one suggestion is that the carving was intended as Cross of Lorraine. However, there is no proof that the symbol was carved by the Templars.
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A "Templar" carving in Well Cave, likely a 19th century graffito. (Fife Today)
​A competing, and better supported, hypothesis is that the carving is, like every other known piece of graffiti in the cave, an eighteenth or nineteenth century creation. Archaeologist Douglas Speirs had this to say about the carving in 2014:
So I would read the Wemyss Caves carving as someone’s monogrammed initials, specifically, a capital letter “T” and a smaller letter “C” all contained within a circular incised cartouche. However, what has confused things is the carver’s excessive use of artistic flourishes, specifically, the decorative use of serifs and the addition of a decorative, serifed cross bar on the “T”. This makes the letter difficult to read and gives it the appearance of a letter “E” or even of a Christian heraldic cross device, similar in form to a Cross Lorraine or a Greek cross crosslet. […] I am quite sure that this is just a mid-19th century monogrammed initial left by a visitor to the Caves. I do not think it has any deeper significance or meaning although I would note that the carving does look cross-like and is similar to crosses known from Templar sites.
 
As for the date, I would say it is mid-19th century as it is very similar in size, form and style to the scores of other monogrammed initials that appear throughout the caves, many of which include dates. Another dating clue comes from the soot covering on the cave walls. The walls of Well Cave have been blackened by soot from historic fires. However, the incision of this carving has cut through the soot-blackened surface layer to reveal the clean red sandstone beneath. This indicates that it was carved after the burning event. All of the 18th/19th century carvings cut through the historic cave wall soot layer to reveal clean sandstone cuts, hence this carving is unlikely to be of any great antiquity.
​I don’t care about the symbol since the Victorians were more than capable of imitating medieval styles (e.g. Gothic Revival architecture). But even if it were medieval, the Knights Templar did exist in Scotland and it would hardly be unusual to discover evidence of this fact. Indeed, standard histories of Fife quite clearly discuss local Templars and the rather light hand Scotland took in investigating them after the Pope suppressed the order in 1307.

​I am more concerned about how this ties in to fringe history.
 
It seems rather evident that Wolter wants to re-date the carving the to the Middle Ages in order to make it agree with material appearing in Diana Muir’s alleged “translation” of the so-called journals of Henry I Sinclair, Earl of Orkney, the medieval Scottish noble whom fringe historians falsely believe was a member of the Templar order decades after its suppression and used his Templar super-secret decoder ring to navigate to America and leave a genetic legacy among Native Americans.
 
Muir published her so-called “translation” of what she claimed to be nineteenth century copies of medieval journals left by Sinclair. She claimed to have disposed of the originals, leaving only her translation. The relevant passage is dated “29 Sep 1388” (as medieval were wont to date their entries!). The boldface text (bold in the original) is the supposed language of Sinclair, while the commentary belongs to Muir. All punctuation is as given in the book:
“29 Sep 1388”
“Michaelmas was celebrated this day and we had guests of 30 of the Templari and their families who came from the eastern caves. They have brought 6 children to be baptized and blessed and four of them were married this day at chapel by proper authority.”
 
Commentary:
Once again, it appears that the Templars that reside in the Wemyss Caves have forsaken their vows of celibacy in order to marry, have children, and further the order.
​According the Muir’s commentary for the 2 February 1388 entry referencing the “Templari” who live in “the cliffs of Wemyss,” Muir believes that the Wemyss caves were a natural “hiding place” for the imaginary lost fleet of the Templars—the armada of boats that supposedly left France eight decades earlier, despite this navy being known only from a single reference to “galleys” in the coerced and demonstrably false testimony under torture of one Templar at a papal trial. Muir specifically states that “The caves are vast and contain drawings and artifacts that can be linked to the Templars.”
 
Muir’s source for that claim is a blog post from Archaeology News Network about the 2012 research into Well Cave’s medieval carving, and isn’t it just a coincidence that Muir’s reference to Templars in the Wemyss Caves happened to emerge after the media claimed Templars had camped out in those caves?
 
The Wemyss Cave inscription became briefly popular with Canadian fringe believers in 2012 because the line crossed by three horizontal bars resembled a graffito on Haystack Rock on Long Island in Placentia Bay in Newfoundland. Among other unusual symbols on the rock is a line cut by three horizontal bars. The heavily stylized letters likely are nineteenth century initials (Speirs believes the inscription reads “E. L. Mst,” for “E. L., Master (of the ship),” but believers have used it to speculated about transoceanic contact between Templar groups, evidenced only by badly carved graffiti, since all secret organizations ambiguously mark their imagined territory with confusing scribbles so that no one will understand the claim.
 
Three guesses what Scott Wolter is planning to “investigate” when America Unearthed​, or whatever the new iteration of the show will be called, returns to cable.
81 Comments
Jim
2/5/2019 09:48:52 am

Wolter making it easier, making claims about junk that has already been debunked.

Reply
Joe Scales
2/5/2019 10:18:55 am

Travel Channel has done us a great service in resurrecting this nonsense. The spring house episode was on last night and it had been too long since I burst out laughing at the television. Ah, that felt good. Comic gold Wolter is. Comic gold.

Reply
Jim
2/5/2019 11:12:43 am

Muir:
"we had guests of 30 of the Templari and their families who came from the eastern caves."

Um,,,er,,, the caves were NORTH of Rosslyn !!! Doubtfull the town was even called East Wemyss back then.
Of course it is always best, when hiding from the Catholic church, to hide more than 1/3 of a mile away from a Catholic Church !!

Eleventh century East Wemyss church, rebuilt a few times.

https://www.buildingsatrisk.org.uk/details/907792

Reply
Doc Rock
2/5/2019 11:16:46 am

The caves were hit pretty good by vandals a year or so ago. An obvious attempt by the Smithsonian to erase the evidence that would be left behind by dozens of Templars and their families occupying fairly shallow caves for an extended period of time.

Reply
Andy White
2/5/2019 11:39:18 am

I will not accept anything as 100% confirmed until Pulitzer puts his stamp of approval on it.

Reply
Joe Scales
2/5/2019 11:50:17 am

Hey, I'm just hoping that they increase the budget for "Megalithic Historian" Alan Butler's wardrobe for his guest spots. You know, so they can't tell he just walked in from the homeless shelter...

Reply
Doc Rock
2/5/2019 11:52:56 am

Well I did see something in the news recently about a burglary of an Oddfellows Temple. Wouldn't surprise me if Pulitzer pops up soon to reveal a Templar broadsword recovered from the vicinity of the caves that fully authenticates Team Wolter's assertions.

Reply
Jim
2/5/2019 11:59:25 am

Speaking of burglary and vandals, any chance Wolter brought a rock hammer to the site ?

Reply
Doc Rock
2/5/2019 12:05:43 pm

He better have brought one if they plan to unveil any Hooked X (insert trademark here) carvings in the cave.

Reply
Paul
2/5/2019 04:25:22 pm

For fun, think one should send Scottie a copy of War and Peace set in early cyrillic script and watch his head explode.

https://www.omniglot.com/writing/cyrillic.htm

Reply
Arboreal Cool "Disco" Dan
2/5/2019 05:48:01 pm

It's clearly a land claim. To the right of the Chinese character for "king" 王 you can see the Chinese character for "land" 土 and the "C" is there to tell you it's written in "Chinese". As we know from our Scott's website the Templars traveled extensively in Asia acquiring telescope technology so a Templar land claim in Chinese makes perfect sense.

Ah, my waitress today, Harmony, just brought me my second Courvoisier! She's loving this discussion. Did I mention that in her day job she's an air traffic controller and amateur arborist who plants trees in Israel?

Reply
Riley V
2/5/2019 09:09:42 pm

Well played sir. Are you sure the “C” isn’t for Cantonese?

Harmony sounds nice.

Reply
Jim
2/5/2019 06:31:03 pm

I'm thinking that the carving in the cave is the original Templar template for the Oreo cookie design that has over time become the Templar Double Stuf Oreo Cookie.

Wolter:

"The design includes twelve Maltese-style Templar crosses, likely symbolic of the twelve primary constellations of the zodiac, surrounding the Cross of Lorraine, which is attached to an oval shape encircling the Oreo name. Opposite the Cross of Lorraine is a stylized AVM. In this case it must surely be referring to Mary Magdalene. The “Double Stuff” [sic; it is actually officially Stuf] Oreo cookie [features] the Cross of Lorraine and the Talpiot chevron-circle design […]. The symbolism [represents] Templar knights surrounding and protecting the Cross of Lorraine, the bloodline descendants of the Royal Family through time."

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-scott-wolters-akhenaten-to-the-founding-fathers-final-part

Reply
Abugida Cool "Disco" Dan
2/6/2019 05:18:15 am

All of these comments are offensive to me. Please delete them.

Reply
Joe Scales
2/6/2019 09:52:42 am

Wolter is still clinging to the notion that springhouses are mysterious over on his blog:


"AnonymousFebruary 5, 2019 at 7:25 AM

Scott, I watched the show last night. The stone chamber in Pennsylvania was really interesting. On the show you claimed that over 800 such stone structures exist in the United States then a map graphic was shown with red dots all over the East Coast and a few clusters in the Midwest. Can you tell me where that map came from, please? I'd like to contact the person keeping track of these various locations. Thanks.

TJ
Reply

Replies




Scott WolterFebruary 5, 2019 at 7:47 PM

TJ,

The best source for that information is the New England Antiquities Research Association (NEARA). Over the years they have mapped thousands of mysterious stone walls, chambers, standing stones, etc."

Reply
Jim
2/7/2019 10:30:39 am

In the latest WTF moment, here is the most recent comment:

"Scott,
I'm researching the Templars from another angle. Do you have information about them adopting the Biblical and African custom of the menstrual hut?"

Reply
Doc Rock
2/7/2019 12:35:37 pm

They have stumbled on the great connection here. Native American groups have similar customs. Obviously introduced by the Proto-Templars to North America.

Joe Zias
2/10/2019 11:44:10 am

Be careful of these 'mysteries finds' as we have seen this 'movie' quite often here in Israel. See if there is a 'non-profit' running it and who is on the board of directors. Try Guidestar as they are a wealth of info. of many of these 'dime a dozen' highly profitable, not profits.

Reply
Jim
2/10/2019 02:50:59 pm

Joe, no "non-profit" running this. It is a common spring house or root cellar on private land that Wolter was told to stay off of. He them sends his minions posing as hunters to trespass, posing as hunters they collect photos and info.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-america-unearthed-s01e08-chamber-hunting

Jim
2/6/2019 03:23:35 pm

Muir:

“29 Sep 1388”
“Michaelmas was celebrated this day and we had guests of 30 of the Templari and their families who came from the eastern caves. They have brought 6 children to be baptized and blessed and four of them were married this day at chapel by proper authority.”

OK, Wolter claims the Templars only faked being Christians so as to put one over the Pope. So why would they have their children baptised (a Christian rite) 70 years after their schism with the Catholic church.
Michaelmas was also a christian festival, why would a bunch of Goddess worshipers celebrate Michaelmas ?

"30 of the Templari and their families",,,, so probably over 100 people living in these caves ? So all these people living within spitting distance of a Catholic church were hiding from the Catholic church ? The cave nearest the church seems to be about 330 yards !

Reply
Jim
2/6/2019 05:54:02 pm

Dammit Janet, we missed out on
"Templar Nights - Christmas with Scott Wolter"

https://www.facebook.com/events/1912727432143923/

Bwahahaha, also missed out on Masonic Con 2018 !

https://www.facebook.com/GCKTMARI/photos/a.130772113607372/2173146286036601/?type=3&theater

Reply
Seymore Butts
2/7/2019 07:43:04 pm

Scott Wolter wouldn't know a templar carving if it bit him on the ass.

Reply
Jim
2/8/2019 06:14:25 pm

Minnesota State Archaeologist, Amanda Gronhovd speaks of the KRS.

https://www.facebook.com/MNArchSociety/videos/333514410706329/?__xts__[0]=68.ARCKGgDZgz5BFhhGTKSbdKqMb8O2ska6CqfOjq0RXDA7pkTiS9MCxokwOhMqkI08T_AKnqPQpQoB__RlbnnRIcuttllWtgDyM5bRnnJMT-qBvtIPA_htz1x36noI3qIgDA7dghBSalCDmfWtml3C9RE2Ppbikr2TGOp1QGAZ7WnP8pLiSDvftzi5mK2MpTM-WGtskeRCUpC2zXSYPfQolyJXPmuSwSNHkYEcVoGapX_zkZqYuyViJrZES4_3r8LPMO7LPpYlgFCL0q9Wa2kMr7vqhGGLtsojHcE8guboNa5vcw7BZFJTzGQWmD846tXUKafhfUmo5k2EzkZUcTugCJOk-TSxPYGGP8s&__tn__=-R

Reply
Jim
2/10/2019 09:24:53 am

State archaeologist: Spirit Pond rune stones are fakes

https://bangordailynews.com/2014/03/14/news/midcoast/the-holy-grail-in-maine-history-channel-researchers-theory-touches-off-fresh-debate-about-phippsburg-artifacts/

Reply
Joe Scales
2/11/2019 02:35:20 pm

Though Wolter recently plugged NEARA, it would seem their view of Wolter isn't reciprocal:

{Strong and Carlson called Wolter’s Knights Templar theory outrageous, and say it’s so fantastical it threatens to drive other serious researchers away from the stones for fear of being associated with the claims.

“We get painted with the same brush as all the nuts,” Strong said.}

Accountable Cool "Disco" Dan
2/11/2019 06:06:59 pm

I notice that recently more batshit crazy questions get posted but then sit there for days or even a week until Wolter posts a reply. This suggests to me that he has assigned the duty of selecting the absolute best questions to someone else.

One of my favorites:
"Eagle Feather February 6, 2019 at 12:27 PM
Scott,
...
I am not a troll. My genius daughter says I troll the trolls though. I have spent time on the hate blog to learn their arguments and locate their source materials. I have even gotten to the point where they admit they are wrong, admit I am right with the evidence I advance, and that they don't care."

And of course as Jim pointed out "Did the Templars use menstrual huts?" Our Scott has no hearsay on that.

Jim
2/11/2019 08:52:53 pm

Hahaha talking to Wolter about "source materials".

Patrick Shekleton
2/12/2019 07:54:35 am

Here ya' go, Harold Edwards...oops, I mean Jim:
https://www.facebook.com/114338978642314/posts/2037351536341039/

Jim
2/12/2019 10:44:34 am

Patrick:
You are letting Wolters paranoia over Harold Edwards get the better of you. I am not Mr Edwards, doubtful Harold would even respond to such a scatterbrained post.
I think you should get Diana Muir to translate the link you supplied from Gibberish to English.

Joe Scales link
2/12/2019 10:53:59 am

Patrick, you imbecile...

Harold Edwards has no problem posting here or elsewhere under his own name. For example, he spent quite a bit of time clarifying the fatal flaw of the Kensington Rune Stone Hoax; that is the mistake of carving a portion of the runes in calcite.

See for yourself, you imbecile. It's called a "take-down". That is, something I suspect you think you're doing posting links to your idiotic ramblings. But here's one for real. Enjoy:

https://www.andywhiteanthropology.com/blog/calcite-weathering-and-the-age-of-the-kensington-rune-stone-inscription-lightning-post

Patrick Shekleton
2/12/2019 11:40:59 am

Here's the translation: AUTHENTIC. Those are geographic coordinates on the SPR. Erik Wahlgren could see them for what they were, but since he couldnt reconcile the values cartographically he prononced them as "gibberish" and folded them into his conclusion that the SPR were hoaxes. Wahlgen wasn't aware that arced-X and tallymark were, likewise, a geo coordinate. Keep watching those videos of Bruce Bourque!

Jim
2/12/2019 11:47:03 am

Joe,,,,, not to nit-pic, but,,,, " the fatal flaw of the Kensington Rune Stone Hoax",,,,,, should read ,,,,one of the many fatal flaws of the Kensington Rune Stone Hoax.
It seems only Wolter can find biotite in the core sample.
Claiming something completely weathered away that wasn't there in the first place,,,,,,,

" biotite if present was not intersected in the electron microprobe traverses."
( Paul W. Weiblen Professor Emeritus Department of Geology and Geophysics)

https://websites.godaddy.com/blob/65151a46-8ee3-453c-83d3-7b1077c69c9e/downloads/1bjjr2j2i_6396.pdf?1990c761

Jim
2/12/2019 11:57:27 am

P.S. Joe,,,,,when I confronted Wolter with this, he lied and said Weiblen only looked at one traverse, that being a traverse on the outside of the KRS. It is plain in Weiblen's report that he was referring to the interior of the KRS.
Of course Wolter than censured me and wouldn't allow me to post the proof.

Jim
2/12/2019 12:37:15 pm

Patrick:

It seems Erik Wahlgren isn't alone in calling the spirit pond runestones gibberish.

"a few Norse words in a sea of gibberish"
( Harvard University professor Einar Haugen)

Apprentice cool "Disco" Dan
2/12/2019 01:18:22 pm

Would that be the core sample that our Scott took without being authorized so to do?

Apprehensible Cool "Disco" Dan
2/12/2019 02:31:51 pm

Patrick, Y.I.: Regarding that posting from the revered scientific journal Facebook, not just "no" but "FUCK NO".

Here's why the writer is an idiot:

"Asia, ante 1508, was understood to lie to the WEST of Europe. This thought was entrenched in the understanding of the world."

Again, not just "no" but "FUCK NO". As I have pointed out before Europeans had been WALKING EAST to Asia for well over a thousand years prior. The location of Asia was well known and it appeared on maps as early as 1295 CE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy%27s_world_map (Ewwwww, he used Wikipedia! Fuck you and your imaginary waitress, Cap'n). I will leave it as an exercise to find the earliest European map depicting Asia.

Europeans "ante 1508" speculated (correctly) that Asia could be reached by sailing west from Europe.

To summarize, the guy on the Facebook page you cited is JUST MAKING SHIT UP.

Be best!

Mike Morgan
2/12/2019 05:58:21 pm

Apprehensible Cool "Disco" Dan,

"Patrick, Y.I.: Regarding that posting from the revered scientific journal Facebook, not just "no" but "FUCK NO". .... To summarize, the guy on the Facebook page you cited is JUST MAKING SHIT UP."

Well, of Course! Patrick IS Phippsburg History Center.

Patrick Shekleton
2/12/2019 06:00:07 pm

Disco,
That guy on FB is me. It's not a secret. Share with your fan base here on the blog exactly what might be made up. Would it be Ferrar's letter? Would it be the Skalholt map? Would it be the "angulum noctis?" Would it be the commentary on Ruysch's exploration that Wroth wrote about? Would it be the Clavus geo coordinates with the scaled longitude that pinpoints the 90 West? Would it be the geographic coordinates on the SPR? Or is it the conclusion that the SPR are authentic? You see, neither you nor anyone else can pick apart any of the arguments that lead to the last question, the conclusion. The arguments are all historically supported. The geo coordinates are a simple deduction given that one of them is partially based on a number notation found on an...astrolabe. The other geo coord has W and N following the value. Same patterning as the KRS. Have at it, Disco.

aPPROACHABLE cool "Disco" Dan
2/12/2019 06:24:16 pm

Jesus fucking Christ Patrick you imbecile (hat tip, Joe Scales). I pointed it out clearly and explained it you imbecile.

"Asia, ante 1508, was understood to lie to the WEST of Europe. This thought was entrenched in the understanding of the world."

That is some GRADE A MADE-UP SHIT.

Jim
2/12/2019 07:30:38 pm

Patrick:

After trying to wade through that incomprehensible jibber-jabber you linked to,

"“90°W” became the Line of Demarcation (LoD) of the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas. It was referred to as the already-existing WESTERN PARALLEL in Jaime Ferrar’s 1495 letter to the Sovereigns of Spain explaining the geodetic positioning of the LoD.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,We have termed this longitude meridian the Newfoundland-Nova Scotia Prime Meridian (NF-NS PM)."

This is nonsense !!!!!!
The Treaty of Tordesillas line of Demarcation was a pole to pole line (north/south) 370 leagues (unspecified) west of the Cape Verde islands.
Here it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tordesillas#/media/File:Spain_and_Portugal.png

Does that look like it goes between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia ?

"We have geo-located this Prime Meridian as slicing down between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia."

Calling your misinterpretation and bastardization of historical documents "source materials" is way beyond the pale.
Just stop already.

Argentinian Cool "Disco" Dan
2/12/2019 08:05:54 pm

This is not the first time someone has pulled this Treaty of Tordesillas MADE UP SHIT here.

Joe Scales
2/12/2019 08:17:48 pm

I'll give you this Patrick...

If Wolter's blog was a short bus, you'd be one of the highest functioning passengers. But that's about all I can give you.

Better luck next time. Imbecile.

Patrick Shekleton
2/12/2019 09:01:03 pm

Dawson, Samuel E. The Lines of Demarcation of Pope Alexander VI and the Treaty of Tordesillas A.D. 1493 and 1494. Ottawa, Canada: J. Hope & Sons, 1899.

Accumulated Wisdom
2/12/2019 09:02:11 pm

COMING SOON!

All you can eat, Crow for the Hate Blog Mafia.

Joey Putz, Google Boy, Jimmy Rags, and Danny boy Schmuck O'Lovelace



Courtesy of,

Patrick's
House
Of
Crow

Unlimited



All but ONE, will choke!

Aerosolized Cool "Disco" Dan
2/12/2019 09:16:19 pm

"Dawson, Samuel E. The Lines of Demarcation of Pope Alexander VI and the Treaty of Tordesillas A.D. 1493 and 1494"

Okay Patrick I have the book right in front of me. "90" occurs once and "noctis" occurs not at all. What page would you like us to look at?

For those who want to play along at home:

https://archive.org/details/linesofdemarcati00daws/page/506

Are you a Gay Muslim Focker?

Jim
2/12/2019 09:20:05 pm

Patrick:

"“90°W” became the Line of Demarcation (LoD) of the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas. It was referred to as the already-existing WESTERN PARALLEL in Jaime Ferrar’s 1495 letter to the Sovereigns of Spain explaining the geodetic positioning of the LoD."

More nonsense,,,,,,,,,, here is Jaime Ferrar’s 1495 letter to the Sovereigns of Spain.

Page 13

https://www.academia.edu/32051589/MsFER_1_Jaime_Ferrer_1495_and_Jean_Fernel_1528_Problematic_Survey_at_Sea_and_on_Land

Please tell me where to find where he referred to as the already-existing WESTERN PARALLEL.

Well I'm waiting,,,,,,,,,

Patrick Shekleton
2/13/2019 05:46:37 am

Page 543.
In the span of less than eighteen hours, you have already introduced an error into the mix. I never mentioned that "noctis" was in Dawson's book. That is mentioned in Wroth's 1970 book. It illustrates that humans, despite their best intentions, mix things up. Which is why we dug into what we deduced were geographic coordinates on the SPR. To start with, randomly inserting geo coordinates onto the stones doesn't make a "hoax" any more believable - and certainly not so when it takes over forty-five years for ANYONE to plausibly figure out what they represent. Moreover, at the beginning of the research, there was an equal chance (if the geo coord could be figured out) that they were modern in construct. An equal chance, because a hoaxer could trip up exactly like you did with "noctis." Are they modern? Nope. You guys are already back to 1495, not because you want to see if the geo coordinates are authentic, but because you want to prove 1) that I am wrong and 2) assert that the hoaxer could have used the same materials to hoax the SPR. You three "Mouthketer's" (as you were labeled on the Wall of Shame) are the smartest persons on Colavito's blog...let's see how smart you are and how much effort you are willing to expend to be a debunker. Once you are done with page 543, then you get a choice...go figure out how Toscanelli shrunk the world or where the zero "longitude scale unit" of Clavus was located.

Jim
2/13/2019 09:34:11 am

Patrick

Still waiting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Are you going to explain to me why you manucfactured evidence to move the line of Demarcation 5-7 hundred miles west to match your made up numbers supposedly derived from the Spirit Pond and KRS hoaxes ?

Still waiting Patrick,,,

Do tell me where it was referred to as the already-existing WESTERN PARALLEL in Jaime Ferrar’s 1495 letter to the Sovereigns of Spain.
It is really quite a short letter should be easy to find.

From where I am sitting, I would say that you manufactured a bogus set of co-ordinates from the fake stones and than invented crap that isn't there from historical documents to collaborate your already made up co-ordinates.

Still waiting,,,,,,,

Joe Scales
2/13/2019 09:50:04 am

"It illustrates that humans, despite their best intentions, mix things up."

No Patrick. It illustrates that you mix things up. Seeking out connections between unrelated objects and points on a globe to prove your preconceived idiocy is... wait for it... because I'm gonna say it really, really slow:

Con (as you've been victim to for some time now)
Four (cutoff grade for students who might buy what you're selling)
May (as in maybe you shouldn't get into a battle of wits unarmed)
Shun (what folks with intelligence do to you)
Bye (as in buh-bye Imbecile)
Ass (as in don't let the door hit it on your way out)

Apprehensive Cool "Disco" Dan
2/13/2019 12:49:45 pm

Patrick, Y.I.

What they said. I've read page 543 and I don't get what you think it proves. Perhaps you with the aid of the occasional motherfucking carriage return could clarify that for me?

Until that day it just sounds like more of the same old MADE UP SHIT.

Jim
2/13/2019 05:40:41 pm

Patrick has astounded me with his knowledge !
I'm speechless !!

Wolter:

"Pat's work in mostly math and math doesn't lie. It will give the debunkers fits and you know what they'll do?
Go silent..."

Patrick Shekleton
2/13/2019 07:31:41 pm

"Are you going to explain to me why you manucfactured [sic]evidence to move the line of Demarcation 5-7 hundred miles west to match your made up numbers supposedly derived from the Spirit Pond and KRS hoaxes?"
----------
Huh?
Maybe this will help you (from Oct 2016):
'Samuel Edward Dawson’s research on the Line of Demarcation of the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas was methodical, precise, and concisely laid out the basis for the positioning of the Line of Demarcation. His positioning of the Line of Demarcation “close to the west of the meridian of 60°…” (Dawson, 1899, p. 523) coincides with the -60.094486° meridian (Greenwich PM reference) based on the Ptolemaic construct.'
-------
"Do tell me where it was referred to as the already-existing WESTERN PARALLEL in Jaime Ferrar’s 1495 letter to the Sovereigns of Spain.
It is really quite a short letter should be easy to find."

Then I am sure that you will sleuth it out, Jim.
-------
"From where I am sitting, I would say that you manufactured a bogus set of co-ordinates from the fake stones and than invented crap that isn't there from historical documents to collaborate your already made up co-ordinates."

Whatever your parents paid for your education, Jim, go and ask for a refund. They deserve their money back.

Joe Scales
2/13/2019 07:32:56 pm

Well, math may not lie, but Patrick certainly does. Just ask the trees in Rhode Island...

Patrick Shekleton
2/13/2019 07:49:53 pm

Disco,
Para. 6. The Fortunate Isles prime meridian had been used, at a minimum, since 2nd century CE. Ptolemy refers to it in his Almagest treatise, then he specifically cites it in his Geographika treatise. What is Ferrar speaking to in para. 6?

Two things would help you in this...spend four years reading and transcribing land deeds from ca. 1625 to 1800 to gain a little depth in understanding grammatical nuances and then spend a couple weeks deconstructing Ferrar's instructions, plotting them on Google Earth, and then reviewing the cartographic maps of the 16th century that illustrated the various Line of Demarcation positions.

In the end, they jumped the LoD that last 3 1/3 degrees in latitude and fixed it there; there being the longitude that Dawson stated, that is shown on the early 16th CE maps, and which slices down between NF and NS.

Patrick Shekleton
2/13/2019 08:08:24 pm

What happened to your secret encoder ring, Joseph? Ask for your money back, as well. Usurping Jim's 'Mr. Myagi' tree argument is poor form but, again, poor form is your forte.

Aformentioned Cool "Disco" Dan
2/13/2019 08:49:23 pm

Patrick, Y.I.

Please type the text of paragraph 6 because according to my reading it doesn't prove your point. However my point, that you're talking some MADE UP SHIT stands.

Jim
2/13/2019 08:56:36 pm

Patrick:
------------------------------------------
"Do tell me where it was referred to as the already-existing WESTERN PARALLEL in Jaime Ferrar’s 1495 letter to the Sovereigns of Spain.
It is really quite a short letter should be easy to find."

Then I am sure that you will sleuth it out, Jim.
----------------------------------------------
Since I provided a link to the letter in it's entirety, there is no way you can deny lying about it !!
-----------------------

"Huh?
Maybe this will help you (from Oct 2016):
'Samuel Edward Dawson’s research on the Line of Demarcation of the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas was methodical, precise, and concisely laid out the basis for the positioning of the Line of Demarcation. His positioning of the Line of Demarcation “close to the west of the meridian of 60°…” (Dawson, 1899, p. 523) coincides with the -60.094486° meridian (Greenwich PM reference) based on the Ptolemaic construct.' "
-----------------------------

Don't you remember trying this bullshit on me before ?
" meridian of 60°…” (Dawson, "
Ya right, dot dot dot, what pertinent part of the quote did you leave out(remove) to falsify your evidence ?

You are shameless in your dishonesty.

The treaty states the line of Demarcation is 370 leagues west of the Cape Verde Islands.
A Spanish league was 4.18 Kms,
4.18 x 370 = 1546.6 Kms
A Portuguese league was between 4.44 Km and 6.17 Km
6.17 x 370 = 2282.9 Kms
Now, the distance from the Cape Verde islands to the meridian 60° west of Greenwich is 3720 Kms
3720 Kms = 890 Spanish leagues
Using the longest Portuguese Leagues
3720 Kms = 603 leagues

In other words my dear Patrick you are full of crap and cannot even do basic mathamatics !

Joe Scales
2/14/2019 11:00:45 am

"In other words my dear Patrick you are full of crap and cannot even do basic mathamatics !"

I got to hand it to you guys for even wading through Patrick's imbecility to expose his deranged fantasies as the nonsense they truly are. That he's a liar and falsifier of data was realized long ago. I once thought that perhaps he was simply just stupid to fall for Wolter's nonsense and try to build his own house of excrement upon it. But after he was outed for his outlandish claims that he imagined after putting forth a negative image of the Newport Windmill, and refused to recognize that his fantasies were obscured by actual trees made to appear less significant by said negative image... well, he went from simple idiot to fabricating imbecile, intent on fostering dishonesty to bolster his presumed expertise. That's when Patrick became special. That's when him being a fraud and a liar was cemented for all of time, on each and every meridian point on this planet. That you would expect him to relent on any of his multiple erroneous and easily debunked claims... well, again I hand it to you guys for wading through it.

Got that Patrick. You're a fraud. You're a liar. And yeah... most of all, you're an imbecile.

Jim
2/14/2019 11:01:45 am

Patrick:

And further to this quote of yours:

"Huh?
Maybe this will help you (from Oct 2016):
'Samuel Edward Dawson’s research on the Line of Demarcation of the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas was methodical, precise, and concisely laid out the basis for the positioning of the Line of Demarcation. His positioning of the Line of Demarcation “close to the west of the meridian of 60°…” (Dawson, 1899, p. 523) coincides with the -60.094486° meridian (Greenwich PM reference) based on the Ptolemaic construct.' "

HORSE MANURE !!! Lies lies lies, completely out of context and intentionally done so for Patrick to push his asinine nonsense about the fake Spirit Pond runestones.

Samuel Edward Dawson:

"Cape Race is the cardinal point of the geography of the northeast coast of America, and always has been. The very same name has clung to it since A.D. 1502, and, in all the four cartographical witnesses above cited, the line passes at an approximately similar distance west of it.
If then the question be asked, where the line of Tordesillas really was ?
I would reply, at 45° 40' W. on our maps ; but if the question be
where did the Spaniards and Portuguese suppose it to be ? I should answer — close to the west of the meridian of 60° on our maps."

https://archive.org/details/linesofdemarcati00daws/page/522

or

https://archive.org/stream/linesofdemarcati00daws/linesofdemarcati00daws_djvu.txt

Now Here is Patrick"

"The geographical coordinates on the Map Stone and Inscription Stone of the 1401/1402 Golden Year-dated Spirit Pond Rune Stones are referenced (longitude) to…the Newfoundland-Nova Scotia Prime Meridian (NF-NS PM)"

This is rich, he is claiming a fake 1401 etching on SPR is real because of bad mapping and not knowing how to measure longitude by the the Spanish and Portuguese resulted in a huge 700 mile error on their maps 100 YEARS IN THE FUTURE after the SPR was carved !!!

Joe Scales
2/14/2019 11:21:23 am

You would hope that a "researcher" such as Patrick, would be open to data that invalidates their findings. But for some reason, Patrick will not loosen his embrace upon imbecility. Well, since he's not an academic, who according to Wolter protect some sort of false paradigm in favor of their own academic standing... well, what are we left with?

How 'bout it Patrick. Is this about some white race having a greater claim on America as Jason often points out in regard to the proponents of these sorts of ideas? Is this why you lie? Is this why your falsify data? Or is it simply because you're an imbecile?

Patrick Shekleton
2/14/2019 12:15:16 pm

Geez...don't stroke out. The Library of Alexandria was the actual Prime Meridian back in Ptolemy's era. He writes of it in the Almagest. The Fortunate Isle PM was three hours Right Ascension to the WEST. This correction was laid in during the period of the Toledan Tables And the Alphonsine Tables of Toledo (The latter discussed a second PM, this being the 'meridian of the water' (something to that effect) which was actually the PM which sliced through the Azores. You can both of these PMs on the, I believe, 1507 Walseemuller Map. Alternately, it might be on the 1569 Mercator map. I am not home at present so I can't look it up. The Azores' PM is on the main map while the fortunate Isle PM is in the inset globe on top of the main map. From the Fortunate Isle PM jump to the WEST another 45 degrees/three hours Right Ascension. You are now sitting at 90 degrees WEST of Alexandria. This correlates to where Dawson noted that the Spanish and Portuguese positioned the LINE OF DEMARCATION. This correlates to the various (not all) cartographical illustrations of the LoD's positioning between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. 90 WEST. Can you two numb-nuts grasp the very basic and historically attested positioning of the LoD? Or do we get another flurry of your psychotic bullshit?

Jim
2/14/2019 02:04:12 pm

Patrick:
All this crap has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
Ptolemy's map didn't even go far enough west to show the western part of Africa ! There is NOTHING on his map about the Americas at all !!!!

" This correlates to where Dawson noted that the Spanish and Portuguese positioned the LINE OF DEMARCATION."

Do you not understand anything ? Jesus you are dense.
The Spanish and Portuguese did not position the line of demarcation at 60 degrees, they could not measure longitude at that time. They placed the North Eastern North American seaboard in the wrong position on their map because America had just been discovered and they had no accurate maps and had no clue where it actually was.

The only way your dumb SPR could match those co-ordinates was if it had been produced at the same time from a map with a 700 mile error. Is the date on it early 15 hundreds ?

Those fake stone inscriptions have virtually no weathering on them at all, even less than the KRS and they do not have the excuse of being buried. They are of modern manufacture and all competent linguists have concurred that the writing constitutes a really easy to spot hoax.

But carry on Patrick, I am done with your lying bullshit.


Mrs Grimble
2/11/2019 01:31:14 pm

Why hs nobody yet mentioned that the caves extend underneath the 11thC Macduff's Castle? I'm sure that the fringers can easily find a connection between Shakespeare and the Templars!
https://canmore.org.uk/site/53953/east-wemyss-well-cave#details

Reply
Patrick Shekleton
2/14/2019 12:39:49 pm

"How 'bout it Patrick. Is this about some white race having a greater claim on America as Jason often points out in regard to the proponents of these sorts of ideas? Is this why you lie? Is this why your falsify data? Or is it simply because you're an imbecile."

Nope. After spending a year and a half trying to map out the metes and bounds of the Phippsbug land deeds from 1606 to 1800, I looked up the KRS and SPR inscriptions. It looked like there was geodetic information in the inscriptions. Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't. If so, then maybe it would be so modern that it would earmark both rune stones as having been faked. Maybe not.

What the hell does that have to do with anything you wrote?

Not a single thing. You're sick, Joe.


Reply
Joe Scales
2/14/2019 03:40:23 pm

Sick of you Patrick. Sick of your lying. Sick of your fraud. Sick of your painful imbecility. That you can't comprehend why all your points and lines are ultimately meaningless, even if they did line up... which of course, they don't. That is because Patrick, you are an imbecile. A stupid man. Very, very stupid.

You have no credibility; here or elsewhere. Yet you come for a beating regardless. So if you want to continue to push this nonsense, I'll remind folks of your past bungling. That you used a reverse negative to hide trees around the Newport Windmill claiming to see remnants of a chancel and to this day absolutely refuse to recognize your obvious and STOOOOOPID error. So that makes it purposeful on your part. That makes you a fraud. That makes you a liar. And so long as you come here, I'll remind you and others accordingly.

Oh, and yeah... you imbecile.

Patrick Shekleton
2/14/2019 06:07:43 pm

Stop click-baiting us, Joseph. We wanted to see how you were going to make the WN label stick...but you couldn't quite make that happen - could ya? I see you're breaking out your heavy ammunition with the tree story again...unfortunately, the same outlines seen in the 1939 aerial photo are present in the 2014 and 2016 Google Earth aerials. Ooops...you missed that, didn't ya? No one comes to blog for credibility, you idiot. And most everyone comes to a blog for free...all except you, Mr. Grand Patreon. You and your buddy, the cut-and-paste Town Crier named Jim, are blights on this blog. It doesn't matter what topic is being discussed, or who is commenting, the two of you spew on everything. You take it one step further and continuously poke Jason in the eye. Producing content for a blog, or any other medium, is grinding work. Thankless work in many respects. You aren't going to get everything right, no matter how diligent you try to be. None of this dissuades Mr. Grand Patreon from an opportunity to stick it to Jason. We know you're sick, Joseph. Sick of being you.

Reply
Calm collected concerned citizen
2/14/2019 07:32:48 pm

Oh Patrick.

Reply
Joe Scales
2/14/2019 09:47:41 pm

Not only is Patrick offering more non-evidence shielding his view of the forest for the trees, but now he's on Jason's side?

Hey Patrick, you imbecile... why do you think Jason hasn't deleted this thread? Come on man, you can do it. Why do you think that is? Because he's impressed with your points on a globe? Perhaps it's your misreading of meaningless documents and applying them to your fancies. You think that's impressing him? But here we are. Calling you what you are. A liar. A fraud. An imbecile.

Let the record so reflect...

Jim
2/14/2019 06:48:10 pm

" the cut-and-paste Town Crier named Jim,"

Ain't life a beach, when you misquote and misrepresent an author, only to have someone cut-and-paste the actual quote.

Reply
Jim
2/15/2019 02:47:28 pm

Wolter:

"No, 1.5 billion pounds of copper collected both off the ground as float copper, and mined out of the thousands of known pits in the Lake Superior region over the course of 6-8,000 years isn’t ridiculous. That’s about 187,500 pounds, or less than 100 tons per year between Native Americans and whoever else might have traveled there and collected copper and seems reasonable to me. You might want to tap the brakes and think it through a little more before accusing me of being reckless and irresponsible."

This had to have been done by the Templars, only they are fastidious enough to remove 1.5 billion tons of copper over an 8000 year period without leaving a trace.

Reply
mime machine
2/15/2019 06:46:01 pm

There is a disturbance in The Force.

Reply
Calm Collected Concerned Citizen
2/15/2019 10:35:50 pm

I can't find it but someone above posted about Europeans and Asia and East and West. Today's Wikipedia Main Page reminds us that in "1249 – Louis IX of France dispatched André de Longjumeau as his ambassador to the Mongol Empire."

Reply
Jim
2/16/2019 02:18:21 am

Patrick would have us believe that Louis would have sent Andre west to find the Mongol Empire.

Reply
Patrick Shekleton
2/16/2019 09:32:13 am

Patrick wouldn't. But I did laugh.

JIm
2/18/2019 12:38:00 pm

Just for the heck of it, on Lulu, I counted 26 self published books by Diana Muir in the last ten months. Not to mention the promised upcoming 10 or 20 more books on the fake journals of "Prince Henry".
Quite the feat of bullshit and copy pasteoligy.

You go, Diana !

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/dmuir

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
2/18/2019 06:40:20 pm

I find myself on common ground with you, Jim.
She's not likely doing all of this herself. Probably a small group. They could go by "BAIT"...Bs Artists In Training. Not hard to figure out her motivation. She's just muddying the waters of other's legitimate research.

Reply
Joe Scales
2/18/2019 08:20:01 pm

"She's just muddying the waters of other's legitimate research."

No. She's shining just the right amount of light on it as a whole, to see it all for what it really is.

Kent
2/18/2019 08:29:09 pm

I'd be interested in who the "legitimate" researchers are. Thanks!

Jim
2/18/2019 08:33:09 pm

Good lord, can it already with the conspiracy theories. Most of the books are,,,, "The Ancestors of So and So"
She is replicating Pulitzers multiple Treasure hunting books State by State copy paste crap, replacing treasure hunting by state with family trees.

COPY PASTE,,,,how much actual research does she do ?

"Contained in this volume is the work that has been done by other members of the family lines represented and compiled from Ancestry.com, Family Search and other online sources. Some original research has been done to connect family lines but you should use this as a guide and not an 'absolute'. "

Accumulated Wisdom
2/18/2019 10:25:05 pm

Kent,

Patrick Shekelton is a good start.

Jim,

Dude...I never claimed Muir was a researcher.

Pentadic numbers will be the KEY.

The stuff Y'all ignore.

James
5/17/2021 07:23:52 pm

Having a strong Templar interest this is very interesting to me, but without seeing it in person its hard say whats been added since, will have to take a closer look soon.

Reply

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