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Scott Wolter Tries to Prove That the Knights Templar Calculated New England Longitudes. It Did Not Go Well.

12/30/2016

83 Comments

 
​A few weeks ago, when Curse of Oak Island introduced the modern “copies” of allegedly medieval maps owned by researcher Zena Halpern, many viewers questioned the fact that the map shown on screen seemed to show accurate lines of longitude long before a reliable method for accurately calculating longitude had been discovered. While the most parsimonious explanation is that the Halpern map is a modern fake, former television personality Scott F. Wolter has instead argued that the maps prove that the Knights Templar (whom he suspects of creating them) were able to accurately measure longitude, despite accidentally proving that he is himself unfamiliar with how longitude is measured and reported.
​In a blog post on Wednesday, Wolter said that he discovered supporting evidence after plotting the location where prominent New England fringe history sites sit and comparing their longitude. He alleges that these figures “prove” that the Templars intentionally placed the objects along the same line of longitude.
 
Here is his chart:
Location
Longitude
​1.   Newport Tower 
 71.19° W
​2.   In Hoc Signo Vinces Stone 
71.19° W
3.   Narragansett Rune Stone
​71.24° W
​4.   Cistercian Monastery in Cumberland
71.24° W
​5.   Westford Knight and Hooked X 
​71.26° W
​6.   Westford Boat Stone 
​71.28° W
7.   Tyngsboro Map Stone
​71.25° W
​8.   America's Stonehenge
​71.12° W
​9.   Mystery Stone at Lake Winnipesaukee
​71.19° W
10. Old Quebec City
​71.12° W
​Wolter went on to suggest that such measurements could not be a coincidence. 
There is no way this can be a coincidence and since seven of the ten listed have been associated with medieval Templar activity in the North America there are three things this list all but proves.  First, the seven items that have been hypothesized to be related to medieval Templar's are clearly connected to each other and provides strong support they are indeed Templar artifacts.  Second, since the accuracy of the longitudinal locations are so good, the only logical conclusion is the Templar's who created them must have been able to calculate longitude.  Third, knowledge of this important meridian appears to have been known in the distant past (America's Stonehenge) and was passed on within the Cistercian/Templar orders into modern times.  Do you see it anyway else? 
​Well, yes, I see it in another way. Here are some other things that are a stone’s throw from that same line of longitude: Boston, Mass. at 71.04° W; Concord, NH at 71.32°; and Providence, R.I. at 71.25° W. Within a degree, you also find Montpelier, VT at 72.34° W, Hartford, Conn. At 72.4° W, and Martha’s Vineyard at 70.64° W. I think you start to see the problem.
 
New England is very small. The whole of the area from the New York border to Cape Cod is barely three degrees of longitude across. (We will leave most of Maine out since it does not figure into the discussion.) Anything placed between Hartford and Boston is likely to fall within half a degree of the midpoint longitude line. Given, too, that New England was home to a generation of New Englanders who desperately tried to prove that the Vikings had colonized the area, the chances are pretty strong that when they went to fabricate their evidence and traveled into the interior of the region from one of the state capitals to do so, they would end up placing most of the two dozen or so “Viking” (later “Templar”) stones “discovered” there in the 1800s somewhere in the area between 71° W and 71.5° W. It’s pretty much where the open land was in those days, where you could fabricate stones in peace.

I was a bit confused, though, about how Wolter generated his numbers, which don’t match standard maps. He claims that he got the data from Google Earth, but the values I got from the same source don’t agree. The Tower in Newport, R.I., for example is at 71.31° W, not 71.19°, while Narragansett, R.I. is at 71.45° W, not 71.19° W. (If you want to get technical, the rune stone was located for most of its life on Pojac Point, at 71.40° W.).
 
Google gives me different numbers for virtually every site when I look up their coordinates manually. This took me a few minutes to figure out. I think I found the problem. Wolter confused minutes of longitude with decimal values. Take America’s Stonehenge. It is located at 71° 12′, but at 71.21° in decimal form. Wolter has wrongly given this as 71.12°. Similarly, the Westford Knight is located at 71° 26′, but at 71.43° decimal.
 
So, if we correct the table based on the numbers Google reports for each site (or the closest standard location on the map), the distances don’t change, but the decimal shows greater variation since we are working with units of 100 rather than 60, which makes the differences clearer:
Location
Longitude
​1.   Newport Tower 
​71.31° W
​2.   In Hoc Signo Vinces Stone 
~71.30° W*
3.   Narragansett Rune Stone
​71.40° W
​4.   Cistercian Monastery in Cumberland
​71.40° W
​5.   Westford Knight and Hooked X 
​71.43° W
​6.   Westford Boat Stone 
~71.40° W*
7.   Tyngsboro Map Stone
~71.40° W**
​8.   America's Stonehenge
​71.21° W
​9.   Mystery Stone at Lake Winnipesaukee
~71.30° W*
10. Old Quebec City
​71.20° W
​* Measurements approximate.
** Measurement based on location published by David Brody.
 
The items marked with an asterisk were alleged to have been found in fields or other places from which they have been removed, and the original location of discovery is known only approximately. The items marked with a (~) were calculated from the closest town or geographical feature to the claimed site. Those without either marking are given from the exact coordinates reported by Google.
 
With the corrected numbers, we see greater variation (0.23° vs 0.14°), and it starts to look a lot more like selection from a normal distribution of random locations in central and eastern New England (and Quebec). If we tie in other sites alleged by Wolter himself and other allied authors to be part of the Sinclair/Templar conspiracy, from Dighton Rock (71.08° W) (which Wolter rejects) to the Spirit Pond Rune Stone (69.8° W), and the Leif Erikson Rune Stone of Nomans Island (70.82° W), we have still more evidence that Wolter simply selected from the data set of New England fringe history sites—already close together due to New England geography—those that were closest together.
 
When challenged to prove that these measurements were anything other than coincidence, Wolter reacted in typical fashion, accusing academics of a conspiracy to suppress the truth about heretic Templars farming Jesus-children by planting their Jesus Bloodline super-sperm among the hybrid Viking/Sinclair/Native American Freemasons in the wilds of North America. He added that Freemasons aren’t aware of their own super-special divine heritage because of the Catholic Church’s stranglehold on higher education!
In fact, most modern Freemasons don’t truly understand what is at the core of the Craft. This lack of understanding combined with the negative ideological influence of the Church with its financial influence over so many academic institutions has created an environment that, along with conservative political forces, are dead set against this historical truth coming out.
83 Comments
DaveR
12/30/2016 10:06:53 am

The more I read about Wolter the more I become convinced he doesn't know much of anything.

Reply
Mikey
12/31/2016 09:33:52 am

If Wolter knew anything, he wouldn't be partners with that fraud Hutton Pulitzer.

Reply
B L
12/30/2016 11:01:01 am

Thanks Jason. The title of this blog entry is perfect. Imagine trying to prove a fringe theory by using well established and accepted mapping coordinates (promising) then not taking the time to understand the system of coordinates (hilarious)! This made me laugh.

Reply
Americanegro
12/30/2016 08:34:51 pm

"Imagine trying to prove a fringe theory by using [stuff] then not taking the time to understand the [stuff]!"

That is precisely The Wolter Method. You nailed it.

Reply
GEE
12/31/2016 03:51:37 pm

Bahaaaaa

Tom
12/30/2016 11:13:02 am

To be blunt, if it is possible that a few people in Medieval Europe were aware of the existence of America then to paraphrase a recent American saying concerning Australia, " nobody cared much". Mr Wolter and his fellow cranks can make up stories as much as they wish but at best, the very idea of another continent even if widely imagined lacked any real significanceuntil the age of Columbus and later explorers.
So, can Mr Wolter and the others, seemingly steeped in a parochial idea of America as always having been the centre of the world, please stop trying steal bits of OUR European medieval history to make up for their own lack archaeological evidence, expertise and common sense.

Reply
Shane Sullivan
12/30/2016 11:31:41 am

"Did Not Go Well"? I think you mean "Went Awesomely Hilariously".

Plus I'm sure Lanz von Liebenfels is smiling from the grave at Wolter's connection between the Templars and Cistercians.

Reply
Kal
12/30/2016 11:45:19 am

They might as well have been imaginary lay lines, he is so far off. I'm surprised he didn't somehow include Minnesota. Ha.

Reply
At Risk
12/30/2016 12:58:07 pm

KAL, actual ley-lines often began and ended on hills or knolls.

Runestone Park has knolls, including the peninsula-island-knoll known as Runestone Hill, where the Kensington Runestone was discovered in 1898.

Next to Runestone Hill (westward) is another little-known knoll called Skrael Hill. This is the hill one would first encounter on the way to Runestone Hill, but beginning as a ridge-line to follow walking east from the nearby Chippewa River. This is where three stonehole rocks exist, their bases deeply buried with time.

Originally, there were no large stonehole rocks on Runestone Hill before two were moved there as examples of mooring stones. Yes, this becomes a bit humorous. So, there were no large stonehole rocks on Runestone Hill, where the KRS was found, but there are three close together (several yards apart) on this Skrael Hill knoll.

However, Runestone Hill was basically surrounded by a dozen or more stonehole rocks, which leads me to think that these stonehole rocks preexisted the placing of the KRS. Yet, it seems that more immediate attention would have come to those adventurers first encountering Skrael Hill, as a clearly marked-up spot. Why three stonehole rocks close together? Again, possibly to signify a recognizable beginning or ending ley-line point.

By the way, KAL, if one draws a prospective straight "ley-line" between Duluth (end of westward sailing) to a large white rock with a flat top and slab cracked out from a stonehole (near Wilmot, SD), which is likely a Norse marker at the upper reach of the Whetstone River, what significant geographical feature might be found sitting on this line?

Yes, Runestone Park, which includes a knoll with three close-together stonehole rocks...and not for mooring big Viking ships!

You may see this odd "marker" stonehole rock at the upper reach of the Whetstone River near the bottom of this website page:

http://hallmarkemporium.com/kensingtonrunestone/id27.html


Reply
Weatherwax
12/31/2016 01:23:08 am

Sorry, but ley lines are fantasy. detectable only with dowsing rods. Which are also fantasy.

A Buddhist
12/31/2016 08:40:33 am

Actually, I read a book that was not fiction and it suggested that the Devil's Arrows ley line is the only valid complex of ley lines. But that book also suggested that the Gospel of Matthew's nativity was based upon real events that could be understood if one accepted that Jesus was 48 when he died. So from whatever perspective you looked at that book, you were sure to find something disagreeable.

The Dhamma taughten by all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas helps all to rise beyond suffering and futile fealty to beings that claim to be Ishvaras or Mahabrahmas or Self-Created Creator Gods.

Weatherwax
12/31/2016 01:35:07 pm

A Buddhist, before the 'Catholic' form of Christianisty took over and became orthodox, there where many sects with different teaching of when Jesus lived and died, and how he died. Precisely what you would expect from trying to shoehorn a mythical person into real history.

There are no genuine ley lines. They are a new age fantasy.

A Buddhist
12/31/2016 02:20:07 pm

Weatherwax: I am well aware of the many forms of Christianity that are vanished; I was once an Arian. I admit that I have difficulty accepting ley lines; if so m,any of them can be disproven, then why only are those at devil's arrows genuine? The authors of that book were trying to be fair to every side in their investigations, and so ended up offending almost all. The lunacy that they asserted about the Lydian origins of Atlantis... what absurdities they said in order to avoid accusing Plato of creating fiction.

Not the Comte de Saint Germain
12/31/2016 03:33:41 pm

The idea that Jesus originated as pure myth actually doesn't fit the evidence very well. (One of the major arguments against it, incidentally, is also an argument against the accuracy of the gospels.) I'm a great admirer of this blog post by a grumpy atheist historian, which shows why the idea that Jesus was a myth is implausible:

http://armariummagnus.blogspot.com/2014/01/did-jesus-exist-jesus-myth-theory-again.html

I brought up these arguments when arguing this issue with Time Machine, but Time Machine blew them off because Time Machine ignores evidence as he pleases.

Weatherwax
12/31/2016 04:59:26 pm

TM really wasn't interested in any debate, simply saying "you're stupid", and I don't know if he even cared what he said or believed. That being said I think he was pushing some sort of Gnosticism with a spiritual Christ.

I tend to follow the work of Dr Robert Price who, contrary to the description of mythicists on the page you linked, is a former fundamentalist who still holds the bible in high regard. He is a political conservative, unfortunately, but that's the way it goes.

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/biblegeek.php

Was there one or more people at the bottom of the Jesus stories? Maybe. But if so they've become so buried in mythology we'll never be able to see the real them.

For myself, I'm a life long atheist, so it really doesn't matter to me, because I don't believe in the existence of the god he's supposed to be the son of.

Weatherwax
12/31/2016 05:07:17 pm

A Buddhist "if so m,any of them can be disproven, then why only are those at devil's arrows genuine?"

They can't be disproven, because they can't be proven. They are an imaginary construct that can only be detected by spiritual means, like dowsing rods or crystals. In other words, they only exist in the minds of people who want to believe in earth energies and such.

That being said, I may well be missing the point of your original post, in which case I apologize.

DPBROKAW
12/31/2016 05:10:59 pm

AT RISK

You do realize the KRS is a hoax, right? Wolter has turned the original hoax into a templar/freemason conspiracy. And no one has proven the age on providence of any of the stone holes found thus far.

You sound a lot like someone who used to post here and on Andy Whites blog. Couldn't agree with any evidence that contradicted his preconceived beliefs.

Anyways, it sounds like your putting a lot of thought and faith into Wolter. And he can't even keep a simple hoax simple. He had to make it even more absurd with his numeric codes and hooked x's.

Not the Comte de Saint Germain
12/31/2016 05:15:21 pm

I don't really care what Jesus was like, either, but I do find the process of his deification interesting. I know I shouldn't keep harping on this when it's off-topic, but mythicism really bugs me.

O'Neill's post addresses Price, too:

"Unlike 'Acharya S' and to a lesser extent Doherty, Price at least takes account of the fact that the Jesus stories and the first members of the Jesus sect are completely and fundamentally Jewish, so fantasies about Egyptian myths or Greek Middle Platonic philosophy are not going to work as points of origin for them. According to this version of Jesus Mythicism, Jesus was an idealisation of what the Messiah was to be like who got turned into a historical figure largely by mistake and misunderstanding.

"Several of the same objections to Doherty's thesis can be made about this one - if this was the case, why are there no remnants of debates with or condemnations of those who believed the earlier version and maintained there was no historical Jesus at all? And why don't any of Christianity's enemies use the fact that the original Jesus sect didn't believe in a historical Jesus as an argument against the new version of the sect? Did everyone just forget?

"More tellingly, if the Jesus stories arose out of ideas about and expectations of the Messiah, it is very odd that Jesus doesn't fit those expectations better. Despite Christian claims to the contrary, the first Christians had to work very hard to convince fellow Jews that Jesus was the Messiah precisely because he didn't conform to these expectations. Most importantly, there was absolutely no tradition or Messianic expectation that told of the Messiah being executed and then rising from the dead - this first appears with Christianity and has no Jewish precedent at all. Far from evolving from established Messianic prophecies and known elements in the scripture, the first Christians had to scramble to find anything at all which looked vaguely like a 'prophecy' of this unexpected and highly unMessianic event.

"That the centre and climax of the story of Jesus would be based on his shameful execution and death makes no sense if it evolved out of Jewish expectations about the Messiah, since they contained nothing about any such idea. This climax to the story only makes sense if it actually happened, and then his followers had to find totally new and largely strained and contrived 'scriptures' which they then claimed 'predicted' this outcome, against all previous expectation. Price's thesis fails because Jesus' story doesn't conform to Jewish myths enough."

Weatherwax
12/31/2016 06:58:09 pm

DPBROKAW, At Risk is Dunn.

At Risk
12/31/2016 09:00:15 pm

Folks, here are the profound answers you're looking for, revealing so much about what would happen to Jesus before the Son of Man was born. Notice, please, that the many powerfully fulfilled prophecies came from Jewish sources.

Jesus was overlooked in His time and He's being overlooked in our time. People, you can come to know God through looking at the many fulfilled prophecies concerning the coming of Jesus, and His death and resurrection.

Jews predicted (through divine prophesy) His coming, but some pretended to not recognize Him when He came because of being afraid of losing power and influence. Some Jewish leaders chose to overlook Him and the many prophecies about Him which were even then being fulfilled. I hope this helps:

http://christiananswers.net/dictionary/messianicprophecies.html

Weatherwax
12/31/2016 09:45:25 pm

Not the Comte de Saint Germain; "Price at least takes account of the fact that the Jesus stories and the first members of the Jesus sect are completely and fundamentally Jewish, so fantasies about Egyptian myths or Greek Middle Platonic philosophy are not going to work as points of origin for them. According to this version of Jesus Mythicism, Jesus was an idealisation of what the Messiah was to be like who got turned into a historical figure largely by mistake and misunderstanding"

That is not an accurate reflection of Dr Prices works. He has said that Jesus as we know his is a fusion of both Jesus and gentile beliefs, referring to him as the fruit and not the root of Christianity.

Generally he's referred to Christianity combining aspects of various mystery cults worshiping dying and rising savior gods, variously known as Jesus and/ or Christ and/or Attis and /or Osiris and/or Dionysus, Gnosticism, and hero cults worshiping a Jesus demigod.

Weatherwax
12/31/2016 09:54:32 pm

...Jesus as we know him is a fusion of both Jewish and gentile beliefs...

Clint Knapp
12/31/2016 11:53:45 pm

Happy New Year, Bob.

Everyone else, "At Risk" is Bob "Gunn Sinclair" Voyles. Don't know why the change of alias. What are you at risk of, Bob?

Not the Comte de Saint Germain
1/1/2017 12:14:02 am

I won't press the argument any further, Weatherwax, but I really do recommend (to everybody) reading O'Neill's blog post in full. Whatever influences created the Christian conception of Jesus, several lines of evidence show that he was a real person, most notably the passage in Josephus regarding the execution of his brother, and that the recollections of his life story were twisted to fit the preexisting messianic prophecies.

As for you, Mr. Voyles, you are really barking up the wrong tree.

At Risk link
1/1/2017 02:56:27 pm

Relax, folks. The alias is meant to be somewhat humorous to the idea that someone considered as "fringe" here would somehow be a risk. I know, a silly idea, huh?

May I suggest that there is nothing wrong with aliases, especially in this modern era. Certainly, Ben Franklin and Mark Twain would be guilty of some uncertain perplexity here to some. May I just suggest that there is nothing wrong with aliases, unless some kind of social mischief or harm is hiding behind the facade.

My only lighthearted mischief here is trying to survive as an occasional poster erroneously pegged as a fringe person, both in history and in religion. I do sometimes make religious comments, whenever the opportunity to make corrections comes up, but if one will notice, my views are mainstream Christian for the most part. This is important, because when someone here becomes indignant over my views, they will also need to be indignant over the views of millions of people, many of them not at all dull.

I understand that this is a blog of and for skeptics. I have no problem with that. But, of course, most folks here also realize that this blog is not inherently friendly to those who are perceived of as having fringe history ideas, or to those who believe in God. So, I occasionally try to have input here as someone At Risk, and I try to remain friendly, even in the face of occasional slights. In a Biblical sense, I'm trying to avoid kicking against the pricks.

I must say, this has been a fairly friendly blog lately, and I hope no one feels the need to attack me, or any of my friendly aliases. By the way, I kind of took it for granted that most readers here know that I'm Bob Voyles, since I have a public website. The switch-over from Gunn to At Risk seemed natural enough, and I was hoping some would see a bit of humor in it.

What am I at risk of? Misunderstanding, maybe. Anyway, I wish everyone a great new year! - Bob Voyles, Gunn, At Risk

Weatherwax
1/1/2017 06:28:01 pm

There's not an issue with using an alias. Like I am. It becomes an issue when you change your ID, but keep posting the same ideas, ostensibly as a different person. Especially if you're completely ignoring the responses when you posted the same ideas previously.

Weatherwax
1/1/2017 09:20:14 pm

Not the Comte de Saint Germain , agreed this isn't the place, and we're starting to annoy people, but I feel I must point out that the passage that mentions James the brother of Jesus is also considered questionable by religious authorities.

D
1/1/2017 09:44:12 pm

At Risk,

This is not a website of and for "skeptics". This is a website for, among other things, people who want facts and original sources cited against people who make, promote, and profit from grandiose historical and archaeological claims with no evidence.

You shouldn't have a problem with that, because you can not argue facts or original sources.

So apologies if it isn't inherently friendly to people with fringe historical ideas. It can be frustrating to have a debate/discussion with the fringe when they disregard facts, misrepresent their own opinions for evidence, and argue that any contrary evidence is because of some conspiracy or that experts are stuck in some sort of status quo that they don't want to get out of.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Americanegro
1/2/2017 02:10:49 pm

"D
1/1/2017 09:44:12 pm
At Risk,

This is not a website of and for "skeptics". "

You might want to look at the front page of the site. I particularly commend to your attention the green part,

D
1/2/2017 02:32:13 pm

Americanegro,

good call, it is for skeptics.

I think I misunderstood what At Risk was getting at by stating for "skeptics".

I retract the above statement "This is not a website of and for "skeptics"."

Apologies


Weatherwax
1/3/2017 11:59:10 pm

To be fair to D, "This is a website for, among other things, people who want facts and original sources cited against people who make, promote, and profit from grandiose historical and archaeological claims with no evidence." is a pretty good definition of being a skeptic.

Americanegro
12/30/2016 08:48:09 pm

From the comments section on Wolter's site: Wolter replies "Upton Chamber is a good one and your line-up of these three pre-Templar sites suggests there likely are other alignments going on. One comment I heard recently is the longitudinal meridians could also correspond to ancient lines of differential magnetism called "Ley Lines." The Ley Lines are also oriented in horizontal directions..."

I know a guy like this in real life and it sounds just like reading his stuff: "there are likely [other things] going on", "One comment I heard recently" i.e. "I say I heard something somewhere from someone and that is evidence."

From the Wikipedia article: "Ley lines /leɪ laɪnz/ are apparent alignments of places of significance in the geography or culture of an area, often including man-made structures. They are in the older sense, ancient, straight trackways in the British landscape, or in the newer sense, spiritual and mystical alignments of land forms.
The phrase was coined in 1921 by the amateur archaeologist Alfred Watkins, referring to supposed alignments of numerous places of geographical and historical interest, such as ancient monuments and megaliths, natural ridge-tops and water-fords. In his books Early British Trackways and The Old Straight Track, he sought to identify ancient trackways in the British landscape. Watkins later developed theories that these alignments were created for ease of overland trekking by line-of-sight navigation during neolithic times, and had persisted in the landscape over millennia."

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At Risk
12/31/2016 02:19:14 pm

AMERICANEGRO, thanks for the reference. This is what I'm talking about.

"...these alignments were created for ease of overland trekking by line-of-sight navigation."

I'm thinking that once a predetermined latitude was attained while traversing up the Chippewa River, line-of-sight navigation came into play in reaching Runestone Park, about four miles east of the river.

From my own map-reading days at Bad Tolz, then West Germany, at an NCO academy back in 1976, comes the recollection of observing a point of reference far ahead, shooting for it while then observing a farther point of reference, on and on, as a way of remaining on a predetermined course.

However, we're talking about something slightly different here now, too, where the final point of reference (the target) is knowingly connected to other targets. Thus, the ley-line might be in one's mind as predetermined...or temporary crude maps certainly would have been helpful, too, perhaps sketched on bark. Why not?

AMERICANEGRO, it is my belief that Runestone Hill was encircled with stonehole rocks well before the placing of the Kensington Runestone, and this helps explain why the Norsemen chose that site to create and deposit the KRS as a memorial to their fallen comrades. In other words, they figured other Norsemen would be coming back to the same spot in the future. Why? Because the spot was already marked-up on a ley-line or ley-line connection...already known about.

There was noise to consider, even being about four miles from the river-highway, which is the main reason I don't think the ten survivors would have made all those stoneholes, besides carving the KRS; hence, an earlier expedition probably made the many stoneholes there at Runestone Park, including those three close-together stoneholes on Skrael Hill. (There was a definite reason for making these three stonehole rocks close together.)

Weatherwax
1/1/2017 09:55:02 pm

I'm sorry At Risk but you're still reaching to make the KRS genuine when it's probably not. There's no sign of the exhibition that carved it, which would've taken some time, and no sign of the bodies of the slain comrades.

Ley lines would be meaningless to people who would be traveling by river. Even they had roads or trails, they would be forced to follow the terrain, not go in a straight line.

There wouldn't be any point going out of their way to get to the hill just to be on a ley line when any later expeditions would stay on the main route. And even that's assuming they would hang around to carve the stone, while deep in enemy territory after over half their party had been massacred.

And you still haven't established that stone holes aren't recent, nor acknowledged that the Norse only made such holes to secure boats at frequently used anchorages.

Uncle Ron
12/30/2016 12:42:49 pm

First, what would be the point of locating a group of sites on a particular north-south line? Wouldn't it make more sense to simply build the structures where they were needed? Second, the distance across one tenth degree of longitude, at that latitude, appears to be about four miles. I'm sure there were methods available even then to locate places along a longitudinal arc (e.g. using the sun) more accurately than four miles east or west, without understanding longitude as a mapping concept.

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Shane Sullivan
12/30/2016 01:11:03 pm

I was thinking that too. Building things in a very rough, not-quite-straight line doesn't seem like it would be that difficult, and if you have to calculate longitude to do it, it only proves you suck at calculating longitude *and* at building in straight lines.

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V
1/1/2017 12:39:08 pm

I can think of a point for why to build sites in specific locations regardless of where they were "needed"--religion/spiritual beliefs that a site is "holy" played very much into the placement of temples, shrines, and churches across the world and across cultures. But in the absence of some cultural marker of why they would need to be placed in a given line (like the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians that stated that one side of the Nile was the realm of the living and the other the realm of the dead), this falls completely apart. Neither the "Vikings" nor the medieval Christians had anything at all in their belief systems that indicated that a north-south alignment of buildings to one another was remotely important. Alignments WITHIN a building, sure--there were some pretty specific rules about building churches in the medieval period (we studied them in my art history classes). But as long as you could align your church's nave, altar, transept, etc. all lined up with east/west the way they were supposed to, you could put the BUILDING anywhere you wanted and it wouldn't matter. (Specifically, if anyone's curious, the central aisle of the nave was to run from west to east, with the doors in the west and the altar in the east, with the transept running north-south and dividing the nave from the sanctuary.)

So yeah, on top of that, most of the sites listed are not particularly religious sites. All the "stones" are supposed to be land claims, and land claims aren't shrines or temples or even sanctified in either "Viking" or medieval Christian societies, so there's no reason to apply any "holy alignments" in the first place.

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Only Me
12/30/2016 02:12:10 pm

"In fact, most modern Freemasons don’t truly understand what is at the core of the Craft."

Wolter became a Freemason earlier this year and already he knows more about the history than the organization itself? Sure, he does.

"negative ideological influence of the Church with its financial influence...along with conservative political forces"

And there it is again. Lacking any substantial argument or evidence, it's the insidious Others Who Don't Want You to Know that are to blame for Wolter's woes.

Wolter's descent into irrelevance is no longer entertaining.

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Jim
12/30/2016 03:03:58 pm

From Wolters blog here

http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.ca/2016/11/oak-island-1179-map.html

He seems to Indicate the Rhodon on Zena Halperns map ties in with the Templar Rose line.

"Rhodon (Rose) is likely related to the Templar "Rose Line" which people automatically assume is a prime meridian of longitude. Did anyone ever stop to think it might mean an important line of latitude?"

Holy crap,, there is so much wrong there, I will only say that the "Templar "Rose Line" came into being in Dan Browns "The Da Vinci Code".
Does Wolter think works of fiction are historically accurate ?
And if Dan Brown wants to make the Rose line a fictional north/south line of Longitude who is Wolter, to say his fiction is wrong and the line is a east/west line of Latitude ?
It is completely hilarious !!!!

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B L
12/30/2016 03:54:05 pm

It's funny that he can find all of the Templar sites and artifacts here in America that pre-date Columbus. He strikes me as the kind of guy who can't find his own ass with two hands and a flashlight.

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Clete
12/30/2016 06:40:53 pm

He could find his ass, but only if it were marked with a hooked x.

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GEE
12/31/2016 03:58:01 pm

Hahaaa very funny

Pablo
12/30/2016 04:44:22 pm

Well I think this is evidence that the Templars (old and modern) don't know how to use google earth! ;)

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Juan
12/30/2016 06:04:12 pm

A tangential question: Could Nolan be considered the 7th man to die on Oak Island? Saw no mention of that in any of the post-mortem episodes.

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Joe Scales link
12/31/2016 11:10:44 am

The seven must die legend was concocted for the television show. The old legend was that when the last oak tree died, then the treasure would be found. But that wasn't sexy enough for television, so they made up a new one.

Now back to Scott Wolter staking his claim for unrivaled incompetence...

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Juan
1/1/2017 07:57:45 am

I am aware of that. But was playing by the rules of the show, which stated a 7th man must die. Didn't specify how... gassed to death or old age. Just found it interesting that the show didn't exploit Nolan's death to assert the treasure will be found this season.

Joe Scales
1/1/2017 09:42:23 pm

Considering the Oak Island Treasure Act would have required the public reporting of any notable artifacts found over the filming last Summer, you can rest assured that no treasure was found. So it would have been a waste to exploit Nolan's death, even though he was no longer actively pursuing the hunt. As the entire notion of treasure on Oak Island lacks historical and factual basis, and geology long ago explained claimed island anomalies, quite simply put... there is no treasure to be found there. Period.

Enjoy the show.

Kal
12/30/2016 06:05:59 pm

I meant those kind of spiritual lines from those fringe stories about ghosts and haunted buildings, which are fictional, because people want to see patterns where there aren't any.

Yep, SW is already better at Freemasonry than a grand master. Uhh, no. Any way his candor might get him rebuffed and kicked out of the Masons?

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Fawkes
12/30/2016 10:28:48 pm

You hit the nail on the head with the ley line comment. I am glad we worked the KRS into the discussion though. It really helped clarify things.

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Americanegro
12/30/2016 08:26:28 pm

Jason, I think you've hit on the ideal template (which of course comes from "Templar"):

Scott Wolter Tries To Prove _____________. It Did Not Go Well.

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nomuse
12/31/2016 04:28:57 am

Aww. I was looking forward to Wolter's specific, detailed description of the method the Templars were using to find longitude. I wonder if there's any relationship to the magic Oak Island Sword and it's ability to calculate magnetic declination all by itself?

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Jim
12/31/2016 06:45:55 am

It's indeed disappointing they couldn't get a catholic Monk to inscribe the method using Viking runes, even if it would have been encoded with Masonic numerology.

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GEE
12/31/2016 04:02:23 pm

Sounds like Wolter received his information from another source and didn't actually put any research into it and presented it as his own work...

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Jim
12/31/2016 10:33:11 pm

Has anyone noticed this gem ?

https://www.facebook.com/NewportTower/photos/a.267684076610742.65052.267673339945149/1322397431139396/?type=3

"Scott gave his Knights Templar interpretation and Jim gave his John Dee theory. At one point Scott challenged Jim that IF he produced a document that conclusively proved the origin of the Tower, would Jim concede. This exchange went on for some time, with Scott claiming to be in possession of the document, that would be made public in six months, maybe in one year. Scott still pressed Jim to concede, but without knowing what the document was, nor its origin or provenance, he could not. By now there crowd was of around 70 people."

It appears Wolter is crowing (sorry Andy) about having documentation showing the Newport tower was built by Templars. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess this comes from a Zena Halpern document. My question is should we laugh now or wait till he presents his case ?

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Mike Morgan
1/1/2017 06:39:04 am

Yes. I saw it as a shared post in the "The Kensington Rune Stone International Supporters Club" Facebook group that I monitor for kicks and giggles.

I am sure the "documentation" is connected to Wolter's comments in his blog under "'Jerry Lutgen Decodes the "90-Foot Stone"" of 12/4. In his comment of "Scott Wolter December 24, 2016 at 12:54 PM", he stated in part, "The Newport Tower was built in 1395 likely under the direction of Sir Humphrey Dennison." and "Scott Wolter December 24, 2016 at 1:53 PM", "Sir Humphrey Dennison will be introduced to the world in due time."

A Google search for "Sir Humphrey Dennison" brings only 2 hits - Wolter's blog and the "Phippsburg History Center" Facebook page where they repeated Wolter's "The Newport Tower was built in 1395 likely under the direction of Sir Humphrey Dennison." adding "All I can say is put the seat belt on and get ready for a wild ride."

As is a usual occurrence with fringers and liars, Wolter contradicts himself concerning the date of construction just 4 days later. Under his blog post of 12/28 "The Templars Knew How to Calculate Longitude" in comments, "Scott Wolter December 28, 2016 at 3:48 PM" he states in part, "As far as the Newport Tower is concerned; amateur archaeologists dug under the sidewalk for the first time when it was replaced in 2008, and found remnants of two wooden beams, 16 feet off center from two of the stone columns. It was a salvage dig and I’m surprised you didn’t hear about it? That’s right; I forgot, my books don’t count. Then you also didn’t read about the shell fragment attached to a piece of mortar that dated to the mid-1400’s. Granted, the shell could be older than the mortar, but not likely. When considering the error factor of the test result, it’s right in the wheelhouse of the likely construction date of circa 1410."

In answer to your final question, I started laughing when I read his ""Sir Humphrey Dennison" comment on the 24th and will continue long after he presents his case! :>)

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sunshine
1/1/2017 08:54:38 am

Mike, some time ago on this blog site, Jason was talking about Wolter in which Jason brought up the name Diana Muir...there might be some of your answers.

Weatherwax
1/1/2017 01:00:25 pm

"As far as the Newport Tower is concerned; amateur archaeologists dug under the sidewalk for the first time when it was replaced in 2008, and found remnants of two wooden beams, 16 feet off center from two of the stone columns. It was a salvage dig..."

That's really funny, because there was a dig by professional archaeologists in the late 1940's. They found, under the tower, a preserved footprint with a square toe, ie late 1600's, and musket balls.

In the 1990's the mortar was carbon 14 dated to the middle to late 1600's.

Americanegro
12/31/2016 11:43:33 pm

I hope everyone has that Jesus (and Buddhist, just stop it!) nonsense out of their systems and we can stick to talking about what a tool Scott Wolter is.

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A Buddhist
1/1/2017 06:55:14 pm

Gunn started the whole nonsense, with screeds saying, e.g., that the U.S.'s legalization of abortion was allowing demons to control it. That is nonsense, and I reply with my faith, which also opposes abortion.

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At Risk
1/2/2017 12:22:11 pm

If I may speak for Gunn, It's pretty simple: God created human life and then He told humans not to kill other humans, as part of His legal system. So, when human babies are purposely aborted, according to God this is murder. God is the final judge of all things, as He is the Creator of all things, including human life.

Demon spirits, opposed to God's values concerning human life, are all too willing to assist in the murder of these innocents who are vulnerable to both human-kinds' and the Devil's mean-spirited prerogatives.

The American legal system that now allows for the massacre of millions of human babies is directly opposed to God's intentions for His creation.

We now enter the political arena. Hillary Clinton represented the Democratic Party platform, which promotes human abortion as a modern-age personal human choice of convenience. So, these politicians representing millions of Americans think it is okay for a female to abort another female. Seriously, isn't this the ultimate presumption actually running against a feminist agenda?

My Christian view is that Satan is behind the Massacre of Babies here in America. Yes, this is a spiritual fight, too, involving principalities and powers in high places. People are involved and demon spirits are involved. By the way, once again, this is the standard Christian view...which makes me wonder how any Christians can support the Democratic Party platform.

Soul-searching is much needed...I'm just saying we shouldn't throw out the sacred with bathwater.

Weatherwax
1/2/2017 12:57:08 pm

"God is the final judge of all things"

ie, not you. We are a democratic republic, not a theocracy, so bugger off with your religious views.

Harry Woods
1/1/2017 08:42:07 am

"Wolter confused minutes of longitude with decimal values."

No, Jason, YOU did not understand the difference.

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V
1/1/2017 12:45:15 pm

How...how did JASON not understand the difference, when JASON is the one who converted the values from proper minutes to proper decimals? You don't just stick a dot in there and it's right, you know! That is using very much the improper notation, just like writing a minute and a half as 1.3 is incorrect notation. The CORRECT notation would be either 1.5 or 1:30--one as decimal, the other as base-sixty. Using improper notation indicates IGNORANCE, sir, and SCOTT WOLTER was the one to do it!

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MJW
1/1/2017 06:26:28 pm

The original Watkins conception of leys has been discredited by the new age crap, the central idea isn't actually wacky. It's an indictment of the closed mindedness of many mainstream archeologists that they throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water when it comes to leys. The argument goes that you can find all kinds of alignments or patterns simply by drawing straight lines between randomly selected features or places on maps, but the argument misses the key point; just because many alignments are genuinely random doesn't mean they all are, some alignments are random, but some are perfectly rational and deliberate, which is why we have some roads that have basically followed the same straight line for hundreds or even thousands of years.

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D
1/1/2017 08:43:48 pm

Or humans, much like energy, always find the path of least resistance.

A straight line between places is the shortest route, which is why roads tend to follow those principles, regardless of how long they have existed.

Therefore, you're right they are rational and deliberate, but mainstream archaeologists aren't missing anything by not describing them as a "ley line", it's something that's natural human behaviour.

Regards

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Americanegro
1/2/2017 02:06:22 pm

"AT RISK
1/2/2017 12:22:11 pm
If I may speak for Gunn, It's pretty simple: God created human life and then He told humans not to kill other humans, as part of His legal system. So, when human babies are purposely aborted, according to God this is murder. God is the final judge of all things, as He is the Creator of all things, including human life." First, PIFFLE !

And according to that same "legal system", rape is A-OK with "God" during wartime, as is selling your daughters into slavery anytime. But JHVH-1 forbid you combine two different textiles or two different crops.

Anyway, the Jews, to whom "God" gave that "legal system" would disagree with you about abortion being murder.

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Jim
1/2/2017 03:57:59 pm

And back to Wolter,
Has Wolter even researched the Templars to any degree ??? He says this in his comments section of his blog here:

http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.ca/2016/07/kensington-rune-stone-inscription.html

"3. The Templars shared a similar ideology and intermarried with Native Americans."

Um,, sorry Scott

" Knights were to take their meals in silence, eat meat no more than three times per week, and not have physical contact of any kind with women, even members of their own family. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar

In the same place Wolter also states:

" The Templars were part of a secret society that was ideologically opposed to the Roman Catholic Church and the monarchs of Europe."

Is it possible that Beam me up Scotty got all mixed up and isn't even talking about the Templars ?

Reply
Americanegro
1/3/2017 01:56:14 am

You raise very good questions. Did the Templars who lollygagged after the slaughter of 10 or so of their party lollygag about while the runestone was carved? Gotta claim that land, right? If I were a non-Templar non-Cistercian and found that "land claim" which is not a land claim, but let's say I thought it was, I'd drag it to the river and throw it in the water, then carve my own land claim. This whole "land claim" stuff really sounds like nonsense. Did anyone actually do stuff like that?

Wolter is remarkable in that he continues to set records for nonsense and misunderstanding stuff. He's not only not smart, he's aggressively delusional.

Reply
Weatherwax
1/3/2017 03:08:20 am

I don't have anything to site, but I have heard from archaeologists that stone marker land claims were sometimes used, but they tend to be very short, direct "This is Olafs' land" sort of things.

At Risk link
1/3/2017 11:12:49 am

I don't see anything about the KRS that suggests its a land claim. I do see plenty of evidence that it is what it claims to be: a memorial to ten men who were killed a day's journey north of Runestone Park; on the west bank of Davidson Lake, where the Erdahl Axe was found in 1894 buried a foot and a half deep below a tree stump two feet across. Old Mrs. Davidson signed an affidavit attesting to the details, as an original landowner.

Folks, we're talking about a time capsule to compare with the nearby Brandon Axe, which was given to a pioneer landowner by a Native American. Brandon is only several miles from the Davidson Lake site. One axe was buried with time, while the other was kept pristine, above-ground, by multiple generations of local natives.

I won't go into the details again, but I would like to assure readers here that I have found and decoded what I think is a representation of a medieval Norse land claim, which does in my view use stonehole rocks to conceal something buried in association with apparent waterway surveying...and attempted land-claiming. I encourage readers to take a look at my full explanation about the code-stone discovery, which is without guile.

Nobody here should be disappointed in the notion of attempted European land claims here in America...for we see that the French did the same thing, for instance, burying lead plates at Sault Ste. Marie, MI, and even in South Dakota, where one was found by children playing.

Again, I understand this is a skeptic's blog for skeptics, but that is no reason for people to be unnecessarily dull and close-minded. We want to learn more about true history. We don't want to shut the door to new insights that might have merit. People, I do not consider myself to be a fringe history type. How can one be on the fringe and on the cusp of truth at the same time?

Therefore, my task is to try to prove my points, which is not easy to do in this venue. I do appreciate a civil tone, however. Thanks for that, as there is nothing to be gained by attacking me for my views, which I believe have merit. If I am right about Norsemen attempting to claim land in this region, it will all be worth the effort in trying to prove it, as in: Nothing ventured, nothing gained....

Nick Danger
1/3/2017 02:53:50 pm

Since a reliable, non-fantasy method of computing longitude did not occur until the 1770s, Wolter's stories are just silly.
Here's a hint - if you have to posit "magic" to make your theory work, it's not a good theory.

Reply
David
1/3/2017 10:52:48 pm

Thank you so much for this blog post, Jason. This is the funniest thing I've read about Wolter since his M.Sc. in Geology.

Reply
Americanegro
1/3/2017 11:01:14 pm

"Nobody here should be disappointed in the notion of attempted European land claims here in America...for we see that the French did the same thing, for instance, burying lead plates at Sault Ste. Marie, MI, and even in South Dakota, where one was found by children playing."

No, we don't see that at all. Because it's nonsense.

Again, PUTTING "LAND CLAIMS" WHERE NO ONE CAN SEE THEM? That makes sense to you? Not just in the middle of nowhere, but now BURIED in the middle of nowhere?

Reply
Fawkes
1/3/2017 11:38:56 pm

As far as I know there is not much evidence that land claims were used by the Norse on either side of the pond, can anyone correct me on that?

It has always struck me as ridiculous that Norse explorers would stop and carve a land claim/burial marker in the middle of their journey while being chased/killed.

I find this blog to be informative I often learn interesting things from what Jason writes about. Jason is indeed a skeptic but it doesn't mean I'm a skeptic for reading here and occasionally posting.

I use logic to help me figure out what I think and the general rule that if something smells like bullshit it probably is.

It's interesting, I know enough to know that an affidavit from a dead person and an axe that doesn't exist don't count as evidence of anything. The axe wasn't found with any other evidence or it wasn't found at all, and the affidavit could be fake or a lie. Or it could all be real, or aliens could be controlling us all. Anything is possible. The evidence presented is not compelling, it doesn't mean I'm a skeptic.

Skepticism or scepticism (see spelling differences) is generally any questioning attitude or doubt towards one or more items of putative knowledge or belief.

Norse exploration into the interior of North America is not putative knowledge nor is it a putative belief, it is a fringe belief. Therefore, At Risk you are in this case the skeptic and indeed you remain on the fringe (not in the mainstream).

Reply
At Risk link
1/4/2017 12:26:42 pm

AMERICANEGRO, you sound a bit frustrated, as evidenced by your caps. I wish I could satisfy you about land claims, but a bit of researching will reveal to you that land claims, and buried land claims, were in vogue here in America in the past. Land claims here in America were and are real. The French land claims were real. This is not nonsense. I noticed that you were particularly astute on a few other issues here, actually in my favor, so now I'm somewhat disappointed that you don't see something historically accurate: past, buried land claims here in America.

So, we may make gains here. Past land-claiming using buried items is real. I will explain this for you for clarity: If a land claim stone or lead marker is out in the open, a later expedition representing other nationalities can easily remove the evidence, or proof, of prior claiming. I think this may have occurred with the French removing Norse evidences, such as with the supposed Verendrye rune stone. This probable Norse runestone was removed from ND by the French, and of course it disappeared. The historical fact of this perplexing item having been found is well documented. So, AMERICANEGRO, we see there is a historical precedence and also logical reasons for burying land claims.

Out in the middle of nowhere? No, we're talking about a strategic waterway merging place, where no fewer than three waterways that begin at ocean sources dwindle down and converge. This was recognized and was significant enough that the proposed land-claimers took the time to bury something, probably identifying in some way who they were. Otherwise, it wouldn't make much sense, I agree. And, we may all see that if something is buried, a means of relocating the item is needed.

My guess is Norsemen from around AD 1100 - AD 1300 came down from the Greenland/Hudson Bay area, looking for a faraway place where Kings couldn't tax them and the Church couldn't force tithes. Norsemen may have left Vinland for this upper Midwest region for the same reasons.

FAWKES, I do not subscribe to the notion of the KRS being a land claim. By the way, you are a skeptic about my findings; and I am a skeptic about your historical understanding and openness to what is readily apparent. Have you, personally, taken the time to look at the Norse Code-stone and her little puppies? If not, maybe you (and others, too) can remove yourself from the "stonehole debate" and just concentrate on the fact that an encoding took place using marked rocks, and take it from there. There is physical evidence to what I'm claiming...that being marked rocks in a decode-able pattern, the results backed up by modern technology.

Again, just look at the marked rocks and pretend they're not marked with medieval Norse stoneholes, and then look at the rest of the situation. Now, add in the fact that a ferrous-only metal detector points to the same, exact spot of the proposed encoding. (You will just have to believe me on this last point, about the metal detector.) A regular detector will not get a hit, because the probable Norse land claim is buried too deeply.

I will agree that this all sounds like fantasy from a fringe history nut; however, it's not. There's the rub.... Check it out.

I'm not trying to sell anything, unlike most fringers some people here love to hate. I have no hope or expectation of financial gain. I don't go along with most fringe ideas, but I do wholeheartedly believe the KRS is authentic. Olaf didn't lie any more than Mrs. Davidson didn't lie. It's all too easy to claim dead people are liars, when they aren't around to defend themselves.

Bottom Line: Long-ago land claims in America were real, and they were historically known to be buried. This cannot be disputed. So, I hope you can now see why the smell is getting better and better for you here. (Reminds me of Cheech and Chong's take: HERE! SMELL! TASTE! YAH...SMELLS LIKE HISTORY-TRUTH TO ME, TOO!)

Jim
1/4/2017 03:17:08 pm

Gunn, what are the odds that a beep on a metal detector indicates a bottle cap ?
What are the odds that a beep on a metal detector indicates a Norse land claim in Central America ?
Hint,, the odds of a Norse land claim and Gandalfs belt buckle are about the same.

At Risk
1/4/2017 10:01:12 pm

Hi Jim, I appreciate your interest. Metal detectors are really neat. The thing about the code-stone site is that when it was created, hypothetically back around the times of the Crusades, no one gave a thought that something buried might be detected by such mysterious means.

Jim, the mysterious means (technology) is vastly different for regular and ferrous-only metal detectors. Since you brought it up I would like to inform you about my specific experiences at the site with both kinds of devices.

First, the regular metal detector found only old spent shotgun shells on the field surface, not embedded in the soil. (I've never done any digging at the State-land site, or even thought about it, as that would be illegal, nor do I have any intention of ruining perfectly good provenance for whatever is buried.)

Using the second means of detecting buried steel and iron, even several feet deep, I ran the detector over the entire area and came with with nothing...that is, except in one specific spot where the signal was extremely strong. Extremely strong. I kept going away several feet and coming back and kept getting the same result, indicating that something made of ferrous metal is buried deeply.

Jim, the reason I can say "deeply buried" with confidence is because the regular metal detector wouldn't get a hit, only being capable of detecting metal, but silver, gold, etc, too, perhaps a foot deep, depending on the make and model and soil environment.

This is science, pure and simple, but mixed in, corroborated, with a proposed medieval Norse land claim burial, having to do with the discharge of a river reaching farthest north into the Minnesota River watershed. This was a big deal to late 1800's railroad surveyors, too, as they focused-in on the same site...but without having understood what the already-existing stonehole rocks meant. (No metal detectors back then.)

Jim, please find a space in your mind by temporarily removing the idea of stonehole rocks from the picture on the ridge and just concentrate on a rock encoding and decoding, backed up by metal detectors. Do you not at least find the scenario intriguing, even without those pesky medieval Norse stoneholes?

Thanks for opening the discussion up further so that I could explain things better than I have before. I hope to convince you of my sincerity in this, and not "entirely" from a fringe perspective. (Frankly, I think "fringe" may be in the eye of the beholder.)

Jim
1/4/2017 11:13:32 pm

Sorry Gunn, A beep on a metal detector does in no way indicate a Norse land claim. Someone may have tossed a worn out chisel down a gopher hole. The odds of that are way better than anything Norse.

At Risk link
1/5/2017 01:45:12 pm

Sadly, I must give up on you, Jim, as you don't seem to be getting it. You haven't bothered to indicate whether you've even seen what the Norse Code-stone is all about. I've even hypothetically removed the concept of medieval Norse stoneholes from the scene for you, yet you still can't seem to get it with these several rocks as I have very adequately shown and described them...I mean, with photos, no less!

Do you think it's possible that you are capable of "getting it," but you just don't want to? Otherwise, to some readers here, you may come across as dull in being able to grasp easy-to-grasp ideas. I think when they eventually do a professional dig at the site, you'll be flabbergasted that you were so unimaginative here on this blog.

I think even Andy White might be able to get this code-embedding idea, minus the shocking thought of the rocks bearing medieval stoneholes. Let's look at this situation as though the stoneholes are painted on like on dominoes, then; let's even remove the prospective Norse input. What do we have left?

Look, we have code-embedded rocks indicating something is buried (easy to see encoding), and this is backed up by cross-referencing metal detectors agreeing with the encoding, adding that whatever it is is deeply buried. See, Jim, this is still perplexing and intriguing, isn't it, especially when considering that the location is across from a discharging river stretching farthest up into the MN River watershed.

We now are also left with irony. Isn't it strange that late 1800's railroad crew surveyors would make stoneholes in rocks to pitch their tents on a windy ridge, while before that someone painted stoneholes on other rocks there?! Ha!

Good-bye for now, Jim, as you may be incorrigible... until that wistful day....

In the meanwhile, astute readers, just google "norse code-stone" and read the Norwegian American article I wrote about it several months ago These medieval Norsemen certainly knew how to bury a land-claim with style! By comparison, how would the KRS have been found if it's true that it was buried, which I don't myself believe--since I believe its a memorial, not a land-claim.

Well, although sacred geometry may have concealed the KRS (or something else) for later unearthing at Runestone Hill by someone in the know, I personally like this alternative and playful Norse method of concealing something much better. For one thing, it's a lot easier to understand!

I will close off my own comments here on this subject now, not wanting to keep testing the good graces of the patient blog host on this seemingly mundane subject of stoneholes in rocks.

Jim
1/5/2017 02:09:36 pm

Gunn, Is it just possible that this crew of surveyors left a broken off piece of iron tent peg in the ground ?
Is it possible that they dug a privy, and that burying it upon leaving they tossed in non burnable garbage like tin cans etc. ?
You have zero evidence of the Norse ever being there.

Americanegro
1/6/2017 12:13:54 am

"I will explain this for you for clarity: If a land claim stone or lead marker is out in the open, a later expedition representing other nationalities can easily remove the evidence, or proof, of prior claiming. I think this may have occurred with the French removing Norse evidences, such as with the supposed Verendrye rune stone. This probable Norse runestone was removed from ND by the French, and of course it disappeared. The historical fact of this perplexing item having been found is well documented. So, AMERICANEGRO, we see there is a historical precedence and also logical reasons for burying land claims."

You don't get that a buried land claim is no good. It has to be dug up. Once it's dug up it can be thrown in the lake and might as well never have been buried. Any number of countries can bury stones. Which one gets precedence? It's nonsense. The only effective land claim is the ability to hold land by force. Sorry, but that's a fact of life. If the Kensington Rune Stone is a land claim, it did sweet fuck-all for the Templars, Vikings and Cistercians. How do you not see the nonsense?

DMR
1/4/2017 02:33:53 pm

One would assume Wolter is in favour of suppressing higher education, given that anyone with better qualifications than "dropped out of school" and "thinks opinion = fact" is apparently part of a vast conspiracy to discredit him and, worse, hurt his poor widdle feelwings.

Reply
Kim R Smith
4/27/2019 03:09:42 am

I found a stone, a rock, a slab several years ago. I had planted a yellow pear tomato plant and for five years the plant dropped seeds and I always had a huge pear tomato in the same place. When the tomato wasn't prolific anymore I raked up the dead plant and there was a slab with etchings on it. It looked like it had been thrown because on the underside there were skid marks where it had slid across green weeds or whatever...something green. I asked everyone I knew if they had given me a rock they had carved on. The answer was always " no." I don't know where it came from. I planted a tomato exactly where I found the slab of stone. I would have noticed the stone when I planted the tomato; had it been there then, I would have picked it up. The stone wasn't there. It almost looks like cement, but it's not. It looks like two different rocks together and it's somewhat glittery. I hope this makes sense to someone. I tried to contact Scott Wolter and there was no reply from him. I'm curious as to what it is and how it got there.

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          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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