Now on to today’s depressing look into the heart of America Unearthed. We’ve heard time and again that no one take America Unearthed as a serious discussion of fact and that we, as viewers, ought to treat it as entertainment. So how do we explain the fact that show host Scott Wolter presented as a “fan letter of the week” last week a missive from a viewer named Stan who has taken Wolter’s claims about Smithsonian cover-ups at face value? Here’s part of the letter that Wolter wants all of his fans to read: I appreciate how you back up your findings with science and logic, it's truly stunning how this great nation has covered up so much of its history and how so much of the public will never question the History books we learned from throughout school. As a patriot I'm gonna contact my Representative and will also place a call to the Smithsonian to ask about their cover up tendencies. Wolter then thanks Stan for his letter and says that viewers like him have made his show “such a success.” In other words, Wolter has conceded that his viewers take his insinuations as facts and that he is proud of this. You’ll also notice that Stan voices a specific audience demographic I have pointed to in previous analyses: American nationalists. Therefore, the argument that the show is not meant to be taken as factual is inoperative. Scott Wolter tells us so himself. But this pales in comparison to the comments section of Wolter’s blog post, where Wolter attacks me and my blog, referring to me only as “Mr. Debunker” and asserting that I have “home field advantage” on my blog and that my “team” needs to play in his court, which I suppose means his blog. I don’t have a team, but whatever. Apparently having a television show isn’t enough of a “home field advantage” for Wolter, since his show gets to set the agenda for what all the rest of us talk about vis-à-vis his work. I had to laugh when Wolter’s response to the suggestion that he should address criticisms of his work was to complain that “blatant negativity and personal attacks are not appropriate.” This came just minutes after Wolter wrote that “scholar’s [sic] miss use [sic] of proper scientific evidence” had cause a “mess”—a blatantly negative comment if ever I’ve heard one—followed by a personal attack on me as “Mr. Debunker,” who presents “miss-leading [sic] and inaccurate information about me, my work, and the show” and is not “serious and productive” like him. Of course! Personal attacks are insults to Wolter only. How silly of me! It’s not like I have a giant new book of serious and productive research into Greek mythology coming out soon, one that has absolutely nothing to do with Scott Wolter! As always: I am happy to correct any errors that appear in my work. The material I publish is based upon the best available sources at the time of writing, and specific claims have specific sources, including production documents obtained from Minnesota Film and Television, H2 network press releases, interviews with History officials, and Wolter’s own broadcasted and printed words. If Wolter feels I have erred in a claim made about him, he is welcome to let me know what is incorrect and why the documentary source for that claim is wrong. Anyway, since Wolter says that he won’t “advertise” for me, I’m not sure I should direct you to his blog with a direct link. But I will anyway. Here are the relevant comments: February 1, 5:30 AM Let me remind you, by the way: Scott Wolter’s “hard science” training is a bachelor’s degree in geology. Mine is a bachelor’s degree in archaeology, which included actual fieldwork conducting archaeological surveys and excavation. He’s been working on archaeological problems for less time (2001-today) than I have (1999-today), and I’ve worked in a major government museum where I’ve had special access to the pre-Columbian artifacts collection and have examined them firsthand. I also have a not-inconsiderable collection of Victorian hoax artifacts created for the artifact trade market, and I worked with professional archaeologists to prove they were fake. These are hoax Native American spear points and arrowheads of varying putative origins, some quite well done. For the last century, these artifacts had been sold and resold as genuine until I ended up with them in 2001—coincidentally the same time Wolter was “authenticating” the Kensington Rune Stone. I’ve done the same type of work looking at rocks to gauge their authenticity, though I didn’t have a lab tricked out in glowing blue maps. (And the Wolter-style relative dating technique is not unique to geology; Flinders Petrie helped create a relative dating system for archaeology in the 1800s!)
Anyway, the point is that I match Wolter credential for credential in our respective fields of fringe studies, and my several books and wealth of documentary research easily outstrip Wolter’s own. Appeals to Wolter’s special authority over me as a mere blogger based on scientific training and experience working with stone artifacts therefore do not apply. In studying concrete, sure, Wolter beats me there (it’s his professional field), just as I easily run laps around Wolter in studies of horror literature and mythology. Wolter asserts in a comment posted this morning that “the constant whining gets old” and that “logic tells me there’s a reason” that people get so upset by “the work myself [sic] and other professional’s [sic] publish.” He implies this is due to fear of his powerful insights into Oreo cookies and Jesus symbolism, but he seems unable to understand that those who work seriously and carefully with historical material are upset with him because he is making great leaps of logic on faulty evidence and creating a situation where viewers who do not have training in the field, like his viewer Stan, accept speculation as fact and complain to the government about an imaginary conspiracy promoted by Wolter. One could easily turn this around: Why does Wolter get so incensed at criticism? Logic tells me there’s a reason… Could it be due to fear that he is wrong? But what do I know? I’m just here to “play” on my “home field.”
280 Comments
Scott David Hamilton
2/3/2014 03:14:47 am
I love "How did the Talpiot Tomb symbolism get on the OREO cookie prior to the discovery of the tomb? Somebody knew...!" If somebody knew about the Talpiot tomb, why would they reveal that on a baked good? Clearly it wasn't being kept a secret on purpose, as all the publicity the tomb got proves, so what were "they" trying to achieve with the cookie revelation?
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Argonautica
2/3/2014 05:17:00 am
The Golden Fleece was the Vernal Equinox in Aries, and the Argo on the sea was the sun in the blue sky, then there's the equation with the wheat and water
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Gunn
2/3/2014 07:51:58 am
The proposed earlier cookie revelation could only have been in preparation for the Talpiot Tomb revelation. (Now back to the future again, eating said cookies with cold milk.)
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WAFFLE WATCHER
2/3/2014 07:12:04 pm
99 per cent waffle in these comments below Jason's Blogs.
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Rev. Americanegro
9/6/2016 01:41:11 am
Mr. Debunker,
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 03:16:02 am
What I continue to find entirely unhelpful … is rendering these discussions into some kind of *pissing*contest* between Scott Wolter, geologist … and Jason, the Argonaut …
Reply
2/3/2014 03:17:08 am
Please convey this sentiment to your dear friend, Scott, who chose to bash me on his blog.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 03:28:16 am
LOL …
Uncle Ron
2/3/2014 04:40:57 am
Phil, The idea that "they're just blogs" is the same side-stepping of responsibility for content as saying that a show that is formatted as a documentary is "just entertainment".
Harry
2/3/2014 06:37:03 am
Phil,
Rev. Americanegro
9/6/2016 01:43:17 am
Careful Jason! You're only "hardening" his "resolve"! And yes, that's Venus Family Templar Freemason Sex Code!
Matt Mc
2/3/2014 03:27:26 am
Rev, I agree that a online pissing match is only going to be in poor taste for all those involved.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 03:38:36 am
Look, neither Scott Wolter nor I had ever HEARD of Jason "the Argonaut" Colavito until Jason starting bashing Scott Wolter in public …
Matt Mc
2/3/2014 03:47:07 am
Okay you look I was just trying to find a civil way for the two to talk. 2/3/2014 03:51:18 am
It would be fun to have a discussion about issues with Scott Wolter.
B L
2/3/2014 04:16:52 am
Jason:
titus pullo
2/3/2014 06:25:35 am
Jim Egan is a nice guy. I met him last summer when I was vacationing in Newport...
Gunn
2/3/2014 08:08:38 am
I think everyone who's gone to the Newport Tower has met Jim...he likes to amble from his museum up to the Tower, I think, whenever anyone looks particularly interested. This is what happened to me after about an hour and my wife was getting desperate to go visit something--anything--else. Jim was kind enough to stretch the visit out a bit longer for me. Personally, I think the Portuguese may have made it, or Henry Sinclair, representing post-Templar interests. (Ha! Ha! What happened to Steve?)
terry the censor
2/3/2014 07:03:26 pm
@Rev Phil
B L
2/3/2014 03:57:47 am
Respectfully and completely seriously, Rev. Phil Gotsch:
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 04:02:33 am
B L …
B L
2/3/2014 04:03:08 am
Rev. Phil Gotsch:
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 04:22:05 am
B L …
Mark L
2/6/2014 03:09:36 am
Could you please give a breakdown of the areas you think Jason is wrong about, rather than just shouting "personal insult" every time an opinion you agree with is dismantled with evidence?
Uncle Ron
2/3/2014 04:06:12 am
"Let's discuss the CLAIMS and FACTS and IDEAS..."
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Walt
2/3/2014 05:33:40 am
I agree with you that Jason shouldn't take the bait and engage in personal attacks, and I've brought it up when I think he takes cheap potshots. They make him look as petty as Scott, but he didn't even do that in this article.
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What's odd here is that I actually experienced one of the complaints Wolter made, about artifacts not being adequately represented by the so-called experts.
Walt
2/3/2014 10:17:03 am
Gunn, I'm sorry you wasted a drive, but I can understand why an artifact not believed to be authentic isn't on display, and why an appointment is required. SW managed to view a similarly-categorized artifact, the Bat Creek Stone, in the last episode so the process works. I do wish you were somehow aware an appointment was required. I don't believe curators are attempting to suppress information about these objects. 2/3/2014 10:21:19 am
You might notice that I don't say that Wolter's ideas are impossible. I say that he hasn't provided any evidence to support them and is purposely recycling long-debunked claims. The better parallel isn't to plate tectonics but to promoting the hollow earth theory in the 1920s.
Walt
2/3/2014 12:15:16 pm
Wegener did submit physical evidence (and politely worked with professionals) while Wolter has not. Yet, even with that evidence, his idea was so rejected that professionals refused to even have a serious discussion about it, which is an example of how SW paints the academic community. But, I'll give you the fact that Wolter's theories are much more akin to the hollow earth theory.
Walt
2/3/2014 02:02:42 pm
BTW, Jason, someone else put in a blog request so I'd like to do the same. I think the issue of Continental Drift and professionals rejecting the idea for 50 years would make a great blog.
Dan
2/3/2014 05:48:01 am
"His detractors in the fringe history camp will be taken seriously only when they back their claims with the same rigorous scholarship he brings to the discussion and account for the apparent discrepancies in their conclusions."
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Gunn
2/3/2014 08:53:40 am
Dan, your viewpoint is obviously one-sided.
Graham
2/3/2014 01:54:03 pm
I've seen the same phenomena in the context of the Burzynski clinic.
RESPONSE TO REVEREND GOTSCH
2/3/2014 07:14:31 pm
You should stick to subject matters that are free from being debunked and fail the critical test. That's as good a tip as you'll ever get from anybody. Dump Scott Wolter without any further delay and become a member of the rational community.
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mick mack
1/27/2015 07:59:52 am
I think Gotsch should get rid of the "REV" in front of his name
Dr. Leo Spahchemin
2/6/2014 04:32:52 am
I just found this site after doing a Google search for Scott Wolter's credentials, so I don't personally know anyone involved in these debates and only know Scott Wolter through his TV show and his personal commentary in reviews of his books on Amazon.
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2/6/2014 04:45:57 am
Leo, this is one blog post out of literally thousands I've written, and I thought it was worth pointing out how Mr. Wolter chose to address the repeated and substantive criticisms I've made of his work--you're welcome to check them out by clicking the America Unearthed Reviews link. You will, I trust, note that unlike Mr. Wolter I have never referred to him by a juvenile nickname. I labeled his criticism "weird" because lashing out with juvenile name-calling and accusing me of fabrications is decidedly unusual and also a serious charge that requires a response.
Dr. Leo Spahchemin
2/6/2014 07:57:44 am
As long as we're not talking about dictators or back-alley muggers, it's rarely a mistake to take the high road.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 03:58:20 am
I have now for several years jokingly described my friend, Scott Wolter, as having not only "several irons in the fire," but several "FIRES," each with numerous irons … So I doubt that such an exchange will happen …
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B L
2/3/2014 04:09:29 am
Rev. Phil Gotsch:
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 04:24:32 am
B L …
J.A. Dickey
2/3/2014 10:12:46 am
I try not to close the door to future possibilities, but
Rev. Americanegro
9/6/2016 01:57:03 am
"I am Scott Wolter's personal friend and professional colleague, but I am not his agent or spokesman ..." 2/3/2014 09:12:22 am
I've deleted several posts from this thread, which was descending into off-topic discussions of commenters rather than the blog topic.
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Mark
2/5/2014 01:18:07 am
Rev,
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Brent
2/5/2014 06:35:45 am
You keep talking about FACTS and Pi$ssing contests, but you provide no FACTS to support your ideas about A) Jason starting a pi$$ing contest or B) That Jason attacks Scott Wolter personally.
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mike
1/27/2015 08:04:07 am
please take the "Rev" from your name when you post , really?
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Rev. Americanegro
9/6/2016 01:55:07 am
Phil, as a fellow Reverend I can tell you that your asinine repetitive posts in support of your "friend and colleague" Scott "Big Boy" Wolter are not helping matters at all. The sheer number of duplicate posts you make makes you a spammer at best, an expert on "Big Boys" at worst ("Oh look! None of the other campers showed up! Guess it's just you and me!") and to be honest, an ass every trip of the train. On the bright side your many repeated duplicate posts boost Jason's numbers. With all due respect.
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Only Me
2/3/2014 04:21:02 am
Phil, why don't you admit that you've born a grudge against Jason since he wrote the article revealing Scott's claim to a Masters Degree was false, an act prompted by numerous viewers who asked about the credibility of his credentials?
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 04:34:12 am
It becomes "personal" for me only when someone unfairly attacks the character of my friend and professional colleague …
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Gary
2/3/2014 05:01:14 am
Phil, it's impossible to respect anyone who gets on TV and spreads falsehoods and demeans legitimate scholars.
Only Me
2/3/2014 05:02:16 am
So, explain to me how your personal attacks on both Jason and most of the regular commenters to his blog ARE NOT unfair attacks of the character of the aforementioned. How are Steve's and Scott's personal attacks toward the same also not unfair? 2/3/2014 05:14:06 am
But it is perfectly legitimate for your "friend and professional colleague" to personally attacks & insults academics & scientists on every occasion?Reverend.,are you aware of the principle of reciprocity?.
Clint Knapp
2/3/2014 05:34:10 am
Phil, once again, you seem to be mistaking Jason's articles- which are thorough explorations and exposures of the claims and ideas put forward by the show, their origins, and the actual scientific work behind or against them- with the comments section and things said by the visitors to the blog.
Harry
2/3/2014 06:55:36 am
Phil,
RPG
2/3/2014 07:08:22 am
"If it's "just a blog" and you disagree so much, why continue? "
Gunn
2/3/2014 09:23:15 am
RPG, you are making fun of Phil for his dedicated loyalty to a long-time friend, when in fact he really does love Wolter...and not as a gay man, either, but as a friend and Christian. Everybody should have such loyal friends.
Gunn
2/3/2014 09:40:00 am
Oh, I got it a bit late. RPG: Rocket Propelled Grenade.
Joe
2/3/2014 01:19:09 pm
Phil,
Rev. Americanegro
9/6/2016 02:03:28 am
Gunn,
Walt
2/3/2014 05:16:14 am
Of course Wolter believes in his show, and believes it should be taken seriously. So do the ghost hunters, bigfoot hunters, monster quest people, the partisan news organizations, the business makeover hosts, ufo hunters, and every other yahoo with a TV show. They're all entertainment simply because they're advertiser-supported. All such shows have exactly one purpose, to gain viewers. These days, with coporate conglomerates owning multiple stations, there's a science to doing just that.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 05:16:29 am
Let's just discuss facts, claims, and ideas ...
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Matt Mc
2/3/2014 05:32:28 am
Okay I will bite,
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Walt
2/3/2014 05:51:49 am
In case you haven't noticed, Jason loves to discuss facts, claims, and ideas. If you notice something in his blog that requires further discussion, bring it up.
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J.A.D
2/3/2014 10:29:15 am
I think it is possible for AQUATIC APE THEORISTs to write
Zach
2/3/2014 06:36:40 pm
Reverend, with all due respect, why is it that when the previous posters are trying to have a rational argument by being as respectful as possible about the "facts, claims, and ideas" that Wolter puts out, all you can do is keep repeating yourself by saying "lets just discuss facts, claims and ideas." What are facts, claims, and ideas to you if thats the case? I'd be willing to hear you out.
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Uncle Ron
2/3/2014 05:21:40 am
It's not so much that Jason's site has a "home field advantage", it's that the Academia Team has established the rules of the game. Fringers want to wear the team jersey but when they take the field they play by a different set of rules and then complain when they get disqualified.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 05:35:22 am
And unfortunately for THEM, "the establishment" heroes in the academy (for many of whom I have deep respect and admiration, not least because they were and are my own teachers) … are paid for and expected to reach and hold firm CONCLUSIONS …
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2/3/2014 05:42:29 am
The H2 "America Unearthed" TV shows,IMHO,are valuable in generating frauds,lies,manipulations,fabrications,distortions of North American history and pre-history ...
Walt
2/3/2014 06:20:01 am
I have a hunch the breakdown between "AU is mostly junk that needs a disclaimer or should be off the air immediately" and "AU is mostly junk but provides a venue for learning about history through other means" comes down to those who turned 18 after political-correctness started in '92 (with "I feel your pain") and those who were 18 before that.
J.A Dickey
2/3/2014 10:38:11 am
ANIMAL PLANET is part of the same vast media empire as H2 2/3/2014 10:42:08 am
Animal Planet is owned by Discovery Communications, while H2 and History are part of rival conglomerate A+E Networks, in turn owned by Disney and Hearst.
Shane Sullivan
2/4/2014 12:08:26 pm
"I have a hunch the breakdown between "AU is mostly junk that needs a disclaimer or should be off the air immediately" and "AU is mostly junk but provides a venue for learning about history through other means" comes down to those who turned 18 after political-correctness started in '92 (with "I feel your pain") and those who were 18 before that."
J.A Dickey
2/4/2014 08:51:58 pm
Tanks, Jason!!!
Clint Knapp
2/3/2014 05:42:44 am
The usual "personal attacks" argument aside, congratulations on all the good publishing news. I'm eagerly anticipating the Argonauts and Cthulhu books and glad to hear you found a home for the ancient text anthology. It'll be a great addition to any library, whether one wishes to use it to source wacky fringe claims or just enjoy the texts themselves on their own merit.
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2/3/2014 05:51:08 am
Thanks for the reminder on the footer. I've updated it.
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CFC
2/3/2014 05:58:37 am
Congrats on your publishing news" today Jason!
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J.A.D
2/3/2014 10:19:20 am
WAY TO GO, JASON!!!
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/3/2014 05:56:43 am
Phil, you never actually respond to the substance of any of these reviews, so why exactly should we cater to you and your desire for "CLAIMS and FACTS and IDEAS?" Tell you what, you want a higher standard of discourse, try setting said standard. Until then you're failing your own tests.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 06:19:23 am
"Over-Educated Grunt" --
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Only Me
2/3/2014 06:45:06 am
Interesting thought process, Phil.
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/3/2014 06:53:43 am
Boiled down, what you said is:
Harry
2/3/2014 07:08:17 am
If you don't think that Jason's blog is filled with facts, ideas and claims, then, to paraphrase Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride, I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.
RLewis
2/3/2014 07:10:24 am
You're playing the same game as SW. You complain about misleading and inaccurate information - but not one example.
B L
2/3/2014 07:13:03 am
Rev. Phil Gotsch:
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 08:31:29 am
B L …
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 08:36:01 am
"Only Me" -- 2/3/2014 08:36:17 am
I take it, Phil, that you're not a fan of the null hypothesis?
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 08:36:56 am
obviously should be, "ores" ... 2/3/2014 08:45:13 am
Bronze is an artificial alloy and does not occur in nature, except in the arsenic-copper type. The Tiwanaku and Wari used copper-nickel-arsenic bronze. The molds they poured into still exist.
B L
2/3/2014 09:42:52 am
Rev. Phil Gotsch:
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 09:53:24 am
B L …
B L
2/3/2014 10:02:36 am
Rev. Phil Gotsch:
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 10:12:08 am
B L …
The Other J.
2/3/2014 10:30:13 am
Rev. Phil, you said:
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 10:33:02 am
"Skepticism" is an attitude/approach of a priori DOUBT ...
Rev. Phil Gotsch:
The Other J.
2/3/2014 02:53:17 pm
Skepticism is doubt that requires evidence for proof of a claim. Cynicism questions and distrusts the motives of those behind a claim.
CFC
2/4/2014 01:24:34 am
BL asked the question, "has anyone independently recreated Wolter's dating methods".
Brent
2/5/2014 06:45:50 am
Rev,
titus pullo
2/3/2014 06:24:12 am
Jason,
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 06:30:51 am
tutus pullo --
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Matt Mc
2/3/2014 08:21:27 am
Cthulhu would destroy everything
Gunn
2/3/2014 10:02:01 am
Sounds good to me, titus pullo. Winning is surely my next step.
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Shane Sullivan
2/3/2014 06:50:46 am
Jeez, Jason, you're posting about Scott Wolter AGAIN? It seems like all you ever do is make posts about Scott Wolter, racism, alternative archaeology, alternative history, America Unearthed, Ancient Aliens, ancient astronauts, ancient history, ancient texts, archaeology, horror, Lovecraft, mythology, popular culture, projects, science, skepticism, UFOs, weird old art, and weird things!
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An Over-Educated Grunt
2/3/2014 06:57:00 am
Joking aside, I'd actually like to make that last sentence a serious request. A lot of your blog entries for a while now have felt a lot like "This nonsense AGAIN? We went over this last week!" If you're willing to take requests, I'd like to know more about the literary history of various fringe artifacts, based on yesterday's brief discussion of the Tucson lead crosses.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 07:25:26 am
Stuff*and*things*dug*up are REALLY interesting …
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An Over-Educated Grunt
2/3/2014 08:33:44 am
That's something substantive, and it leads to further discussion.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 09:46:32 am
Some friends of mine lived on the south slope of the hill, and the road cut was fairly extensive, so I had long been familiar with it, including its geology … So upon my descriptions, including location, that was, as they say, "that" …
Gunn
2/3/2014 10:23:48 am
I wish I could report the same, Phil, but I had some truly mean teachers. One used to make me sit in the cubby-hole of her big desk, where her chair was usually tucked in. One day she didn't believe I had to go pee, so it wasn't long before the proof came rolling out for her and my classmates to see.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 10:30:12 am
Gunn --
Titus pullo
2/3/2014 10:55:59 am
Gunn,
Gunn
2/3/2014 12:03:53 pm
I have been programmed by society around me, from youth on, to question authority, being 17 year old in 1969. And I grew up with public riots and very real conspiracies to commit political assassinations. At least I now trust people over 30, since I'm twice that age myself! But I don't question God's authority.
Rev. Americanegro
9/6/2016 02:19:28 am
"I have been very fortunate throughout my life to have been blessed by EXCELLENT teachers and colleagues, such that I feel entirely FREE to think, explore, seek and search without shame ..."
The Other J.
2/3/2014 11:59:12 am
First congratulations on the books. That's definitely good news -- a bumper crop.
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Gunn
2/3/2014 12:29:08 pm
"What's the big secret truth that he (Wolter) thinks is going to shake our foundations? Why won't he just come out and say it?"
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 01:57:28 pm
*sigh* … Gosh … !!!
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2/3/2014 02:01:06 pm
Phil, "Bizarro" wasn't an insult hurled at you. It's a comic book reference referring to an alternate world version of a person with opposite characteristics from the original.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 02:05:08 pm
I "got" the reference, as I'm familiar with the character, but yes it WAS an insult ...
The Other J.
2/3/2014 02:38:10 pm
And here Wolter said you can handle yourself. Yet you took that as an insult.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/3/2014 02:57:07 pm
"The Other J" (whoever you are) …
tom
2/3/2014 08:02:09 pm
/faceplam. That's a highly developed insult gland you've got mr Phil
Brent
2/5/2014 06:48:58 am
I am Bizarro Stormy.
The Black Hole
2/8/2014 01:16:10 pm
Uh, no...that is not what Bizarro is. As a comic book nerd, calling somebody Bizarro in the comic book reference is a big insult to somebody who wouldn't know and that's probably why he is explaining that way.
The Other J.
2/3/2014 02:28:29 pm
If it was as simple as overlooking stuff, it wouldn't be such a scandal in Wolter's mind.
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Clint Knapp
2/3/2014 03:59:13 pm
Seconded. It's becoming tiresome having people tell Jason how to moderate his own comment threads. Leave the job to the man himself. If he deems it inappropriate he'll deal with it. Reminding everyone of the rules and calling for deletion of comments is no one's job but his.
Gunn
2/4/2014 05:02:36 am
The Other J., undoubtedly, you are guilty here of provoking ill-will. You keep wanting to attack, even after Jason has taken the time to try to moderate things here. It must be an unpleasant task to continually clean up the meanness and nastiness that wants to keep cropping up.
The Other J.
2/4/2014 09:00:46 pm
Gunn, I implore you, I beg of you, stop STOP with the name-calling and the insinuations and the MEAN MEAN things you say about me. Does god somehow give you access to my heart, my will, and creepily enough my dreams?
Paul G
2/3/2014 03:19:34 pm
Talpiot Tomb symbolism in the Oreo? His claims such as this are what should get most people to realize he is simply another fringe historian full of pointless ideas without doing much more looking into Wolter. Templar symbolism in the the Exxon sign? Why not?
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Only Me
2/3/2014 05:15:17 pm
"it's the possibly overlooked "stuff" which appears like it may be of a possible historic nature"
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2/3/2014 06:38:01 pm
Do people realize what is going on here?.The Reverend is systematically hijacking every single thread related to Scott Wolter,relentlessly attacking Jason & the individuals supporting him,questioning their motivations,denouncing their attitudes.If you subscribe to articles on America Unearthed/Scott Wolter,you`ll notice that the Reverend intrusion is phenomenal,he "is active" in every single article related to Wolter/America Unearthed,going back as far as January 2013.The man literally spends hours on a daily base,to defend his "personal friend & colleague",Scott Wolter the entertainer.
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Matt Mc
2/3/2014 11:52:42 pm
I agree Tara.
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LynnBrant
2/4/2014 12:33:15 am
If you refrain from participating, isn't that exactly what the REV wants? Look, he is just another of Wolter's shills. I know, I used to be one.
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An Over-Educated Grunt
2/4/2014 12:56:10 am
Hopefully you were less repetetive. I've seen robots that had a harder time staying "on message" than Phil. I refuse to call him "Reverend" anything at this point, because I've seen one post he's ever made that had to do with his clerical work, and that was about life as an outpatient mental counselor.
RLewis
2/4/2014 12:59:41 am
I believe many posts are just trying to bait others to respond. These arguments have been beaten to death. Perhaps a passive-aggressive approach may more feasible/effective. If everyone stops responding to/acknowledging certain participants, then perhaps they will eventually get the message or just get bored and leave.
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Tom
2/4/2014 01:38:26 am
^ agree
RLewis
2/4/2014 01:45:36 am
Tom,
Rev. Americanegro
9/6/2016 02:31:00 am
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind."
Kevin
2/3/2014 07:24:14 pm
I would love to see a marquee sign above Madison Square Garden that reads:
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2/4/2014 01:24:12 am
An Over-Educated Grunt,LynnBrant,Matt Mc
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Matt Mc
2/4/2014 01:30:29 am
I agree Tara, I no longer plan to interact with Rev. He has proven to me he has no interest in discussions.
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LynnBrant
2/4/2014 01:38:40 am
I assume that in the end, the Smithsonian show will debunk the fringe theories. Depending on one's inclination, you can take that as either evidence of their scientific honesty, or see it as more crafty cover-up in plain sight.
Matt Mc
2/4/2014 01:42:13 am
Fair enough I just started it right now so I will say something how it concludes.
RLewis
2/4/2014 01:49:14 am
Jason, 2/4/2014 01:58:55 am
Yes, they will be on Amazon. The "Cthulhu" eBook should be there as soon as Amazon has finished processing the publisher's submission to the Kindle store yesterday, with the print book to follow at the end of the month.
Matt Mc
2/4/2014 02:25:13 am
Okay well overall I was very impressed with the SECRETS: OF THE VIKING MAP doc. I found it very balanced. The first 1/4 was dedicated to the discovery of the map and its history of discovery. Then the second quarter is dedicated to why the map could be real. The third quarter focused on why the map could be a forgery. The doc finishes off summarizing the what proceeded it and talking to expert on both side of the real or fake debate. It ends without placing a real or fake determination on the map. Some could view this doc as saying it is leveled to the forgery claim since the evidence and theories of forgery proceed the claims of authenticity but I found it to be very even handed giving both side balanced screen time. It ends stating that either way it is a interesting mystery that asks interesting question.
CFC
2/4/2014 02:27:22 am
Thanks for the summary Matt!!!
RLewis
2/4/2014 05:58:12 am
Jason - OK, how about this?
RLewis
2/4/2014 01:32:25 am
Tara,
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2/4/2014 05:19:18 am
Matt Mc
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RLewis
2/4/2014 05:24:00 am
Tara, 2/4/2014 05:39:12 am
RLewis
Matt Mc
2/4/2014 06:34:55 am
Tara,
Brent
2/5/2014 06:51:42 am
I like to think this will work like in The Sphere, where we all use our power to forget about the Sphere, and it goes away forever and everyone lives happily ever after (well...that hasn't died in earlier parts).
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 02:16:40 am
I found these blog spots by accident, when I did a "Google" to see what people were thinking and saying about the "America Unearthed" TV shows …
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2/4/2014 02:19:18 am
Phil, you're being repetitive. Let me remind you of my rules about hijacking discussion with endless repeated posts that say the same thing. You've made your point.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 02:30:37 am
For sure …
terry the censor
2/4/2014 04:55:10 am
@Rev. Phil
LynnBrant
2/4/2014 02:55:09 am
It is simply untrue that thoughts expressed here from the beginning have been personal attacks against Scott rather than attacks on the content of the show. Only a handful of people here know Wolter apart from the show. Wolter chose to wrap the show in his own persona from the outset. He made himself the mind, face and body of the show, and now pleads via his proxy that he should be spared from any sidestream flak from those outraged at the show's content.
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CFC
2/4/2014 02:59:01 am
Very well said Lynn!
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 03:57:20 am
Scott Wolter is the HOST of the "America Unearthed" TV shows, so of course HE will often be front and center … So … ???
Joe
2/4/2014 03:00:34 am
Phil
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 03:22:15 am
I understand and appreciate that you feel frustrated that I don't respond as you would PREFER ...
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Harry
2/4/2014 04:59:37 am
No, we are frustrated that you don't respond even in the way you claim to PREFER.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 05:15:57 am
Well, then … LOL …
Joe
2/4/2014 11:44:00 am
C'mon Phil,
Tom
2/4/2014 06:27:03 am
Joe,
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An Over-Educated Grunt
2/4/2014 05:22:31 am
Precious little of this comment thread has actually been about Scott Wolter, his blog, or the relationship between, for lack of a better term, Us and Them. There's not a lot of cross-pollination between Scott Wolter Answers and here, largely because his blog policy is to ignore anything that can't be simplified all the way to "SCOTT GOOD." There's just nothing there to chew on.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 05:41:36 am
I agree …
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2/4/2014 05:46:06 am
We have witnessed here that this blog is not a civil environment, though Jason has endeavored to make it better. It's not working, so it's finally time for me to get off this muddy pathway and take the higher road.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 06:16:41 am
Sir Gunn:
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2/4/2014 06:32:15 am
Gunn.You`ll be back soon enough.You`ll miss me ;)
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Byron DeLear
2/4/2014 07:39:30 am
Pleasure reading your comments Gunn, come back when your batts are recharged!
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Harry
2/4/2014 11:15:27 am
Gunn,
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Shane Sullivan
2/4/2014 12:32:54 pm
May your stonehole investigations be ever fruitful and satisfying.
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Brent
2/5/2014 07:13:52 am
I may not be especially talkative here, but I've always enjoyed your thoughts- you've always added a lot to discussions. Farewell! Hope we see you from time to time.
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Martin R
2/4/2014 05:59:14 am
I enjoy reading Jason's AU reviews, his blog as well as his other articles. Here is Jason's purpose, I believe, in keeping tabs of the Scott Wolters of the world, just like the weekly alternative newspapers which nip at the heels of large daily papers, Jason's job is to take fringe historians to task. Not to just accept new ideas without questioning. And if those questions reveal BS, well, whose fault is that? Now, if SW has a problem, instead of attacking the messenger as he has done, attack the findings. If he can prove them wrong or find fault with the JC's reasoning, he's done his job. So far, SW has not proved JC wrong in a factual way. The rest, including the Rev., is just disconnect or white noise.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 06:10:19 am
As you know by now, or have reason to know, I FULLY AGREE that these discussions ought to be ONLY about the 'message" and NOT "the messenger," no matter who (s)he is ...
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An Over-Educated Grunt
2/4/2014 06:20:08 am
Agreed. One of the things they teach you early early on in writing any research-based report for publication is to include possible criticisms of your methodology and findings, and to answer them up-front. The typical answer in academia is "clearly this needs more research," but the fact is, Wolter doesn't do even this, and refuses to submit his non-AU work to serious, soul-baring scrutiny, which is the only way it will ever become accepted.
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terry the censor
2/4/2014 06:33:40 am
Good stuff, Grunt.
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/4/2014 06:42:18 am
Terry -
The Other J.
2/4/2014 09:18:01 pm
Just wanted to point out that the method you identify is basically the same methods used in humanities research. The main difference is Step Four, where argument to prove a case or claim takes the place of experiment.
Harry
2/5/2014 12:33:46 am
I would add that Wolter's execution of Step Four is faulty, if his analysis of the Bat Creek Stone is any indication.
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/5/2014 07:55:04 am
The Other J -
Harry
2/5/2014 11:18:36 pm
Grunt,
LynnBrant
2/4/2014 07:29:23 am
I remember when Scott swore to me that if he sold a tv program, he would never make it akin to Monster Quest. I guess he didn't. Monster Quest spends 45 minutes with scary footage about the black panther or whatever. They interview sincere witnesses and display evidence. But, in the last few minutes, they systematically refute the evidence and show that in fact, the black panther is just a house cat. America Unearthed doesn't do that.
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RLewis
2/4/2014 08:05:32 am
Lynn, so what specifically did he dislike about MQ that he wanted to avoid in his program?
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LynnBrant
2/4/2014 08:38:16 am
It was I who used MQ as a benchmark in that discussion. He just said he would be all about science and hard evidence. Little did I know that the difference between the two shows would be with Monster Quest looking more objective and more fact-based.
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/4/2014 08:56:31 am
Father Bill Bosh was going to post, but that'd be poking the bear needlessly.
LynnBrant
2/4/2014 09:31:02 am
Scott is a very magnetic and likable guy. You couldn't want anybody better to have a few beers with. But early on he was described to me as having a runaway ego. That's a fact. Disagree with him and he goes all Jekyll and Hyde on you.
Paul G
2/4/2014 08:16:50 am
AU sounds like monster quest up until the point of refuting evidence. Insted he takes his findings and "research" ,draws conclusions by making his findings fit his theories, and state that academia is hiding something. So I guess he stayed true to his word.
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Matt Mc
2/5/2014 07:15:48 am
Very true Wade handles criticism and disagreement respectfully.
Matt Mc
2/4/2014 08:30:08 am
MonsterQuest also was better paced than AU and had better production values (not much mind you).
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 09:46:47 am
Being a guy, I do more channel surfing than show watching … So I have given only a few cursory curious glances at shows like "Monster Quest" and "Finding Bigfoot" and "Fascinating Tunnels" (or whatever that show is) and "Ghost Search" …
Matt Mc
2/4/2014 10:37:06 am
I quite agree with River Monsters, I think that show is excellent. There is a good amount of interesting information and exploration of myth. I highly recommend the two hour episode dedicated to the Loch Ness monster and have used it as what I believe to be an excellent example of a proper exploration of a Fringe myth.
Walt
2/4/2014 01:23:26 pm
I agree as well, River Monsters is a great show. But I wouldn't liken it to Monster Quest or AU at all. Others apparently think more highly of Monster Quest than I do. To me, it's exactly what I think of when I watch AU. Neither has ever found what they were seeking by the end of the show.
Matt Mc
2/4/2014 02:10:13 pm
Walt, the Loch Ness episode was a special 2 hour one they did at the end of the last season, It was the first one they did about a "mythical" monster. I wont spoil the episode since Animal Planet has reaired it a few times but suffice to say he does not find the Loch Ness Monster but he does come up with some very plausible explanations as to what could be the source of the monster myth. It like all the other episodes involves the catching of large fish.
The Other J.
2/4/2014 09:56:27 pm
There was another River Monsters two years ago (season four finale, I think) where he went deeper and deeper into Guyana along the Essequibo River, and ended up discovering a new species of arapaima that hadn't been identified in that part of South America before. He suspected that since the Essequibo was so separate from the Amazon system the arapaima might be different, so he sent off a scale sample for DNA tests, and it turned out it was an undocumented species.
Matt Mc
2/4/2014 11:01:38 pm
Other J,
Walt
2/4/2014 11:23:59 pm
I actually think Jeremy Wade of River Monsters is more like Jason and this blog than SW and AU. The purpose of RM is to debunk myths and folklore, and he's very logical and respectful during the process (I lost count of how many languages he speaks). SW just retells myths and folklore, presents faulty "scientific" logic as evidence, then ends the show by repeating that he still believes in the original myth that he didn't prove or disprove.
Matt Mc
2/4/2014 11:35:40 pm
Walt I quite agree you said what I was meaning to say just did convey it properly.
Walt
2/5/2014 12:03:33 am
No Matt, you conveyed it properly, I just wanted to point out how much River Monsters is like this blog. I do agree with all the similarites you mentioned between River Monsters and AU. I guess the format of the shows are similar, but the purpose of the shows differs greatly. Jeremy Wade really wants to learn the truth. We were saying the same thing, I just thought readers of this blog might be interested in knowing how similar that show is, except with big fish.
The Other J.
2/5/2014 06:41:07 am
"Yeah that episode is fantastic, I think it echoed (deliberately perhaps) Conrads Hearts of Darkness."
yakko
2/4/2014 01:46:26 pm
I'm a considerable fan of "Monster Quest", for the reasons stated: that it at least gives lip service to the idea that the monster of the week might not be all it's cracked up to be. I still watch old episodes when they rerun on one of the History channels, which still has some watchable stuff during the day. It does annoy me that, especially later in its run, every other episode seemed to be some kind of Bigfoot-type creature, which I don't bother to watch most of the time, since nearly all such stories are much the same: someone sees a bear at a distance, finds some coyote hair on a bush, takes casts of fake or misinterpreted "footprints", takes blurry photos of a pile of leaves, or whatnot. Then he takes this "evidence" to an "expert" who, after testing them, sagely declare that these artifacts match nothing known to science. Or worse, that the DNA exactly matches a Sasquatch-type creature. It's like watching a bunch of sitcoms, only without the laugh track. What was I talking about, again? Oh yeah. My favorite bit on the show is when they put a camera on an animal similar to what they're looking for, and set it loose in a likely environment, hoping that the giant rat in the sewer will show up on RatCam, or that the hogzilla willl make an appearance for HogCam.
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2/4/2014 09:43:54 am
After Wolter's theories have been long forgotten, there will still be a solid body of work at this site - or the Wayback machine - for years, if not decades to come. It's an important contribution that's appreciated and referenced by many. The work stands on its own, to the chagrin of the Wolter, his supporters, and the ancient alien pseudo-science crowd.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 10:15:45 am
To be realistic, of course the writing of history ("historiography") is ALWAYS a work in progress, endlessly subject to re-writing and re-interpretation and revision … NOBODY knows EVERYTHING about "what really happened" …
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2/4/2014 10:50:35 am
Source criticism underpins the very notion of historiography. It's something that Jason excels at and welcomes from all.
Martin R
2/4/2014 10:52:21 am
And therein is the difference between speculation and proper research. Take the last episode of AU, instead of research or laying a proper foundation to the tribes of ancient Israel, SW brings in a Rabbi who adds nothing but a look back at the Jews is Spain. It's like late-night talk radio.
Paul G
2/4/2014 10:59:00 am
I agree with you that history will always be changing and has the possibility to be rewritten, but isn't the thought nobody knows everything stretching it a bit?
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/4/2014 02:20:42 pm
One of the most famous instances of re-written history is the discovery that apparently probably the Icelandic Sagas telling of Bjarni Herjolfsson's accidental discovery of "America" and subsequent events … are essentially true and correct ... 2/5/2014 12:53:05 am
The Icelandic sagas were recognized as "essentially true" back in the 1830s and have been featured in history textbooks ever since. (I recently posted about a high school textbook from the early 1900s to that effect.) Surely that can't be the best example of "rewriting" the history books. Back then the entire Paleoindian culture was completely unknown and arguably a bigger rewrite of the history books.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/5/2014 01:44:49 am
The Icelandic Sagas were written LONG before "1830" and "1830" was a long time after "1492" ... 2/5/2014 02:01:00 am
You misunderstood me, Phil. I'm trying to say that scholars and "academics" accepted the Norse sagas as fundamentally true in the 1830s. I did not say that the sagas were written in the 1830s. So, the "textbooks" were rewritten in the 1830s. Therefore, it's a bad example of your point.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/5/2014 02:39:56 am
Jason … 2/5/2014 02:52:45 am
You are speaking of the centuries before 1830? Well, if we're re-litigating the historiography of the 1500s-1700s, you'd have a lot of work to do. Modern historiography doesn't really begin until the 1800s. I was under the impression when you and Wolter complain about textbooks and academics you are speaking of the past, say, 100 years, not the past thousand. Otherwise, this is like blasting doctors for taking "centuries" to accept that disease had a cause other than unbalanced humors.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/5/2014 06:50:05 am
Jason … 2/5/2014 06:55:14 am
What on earth are you talking about? You started this by saying that history had to be rewritten when the sagas were accepted as true accounts of the Norse discovery of America. I gave you a date for when that happened, c. 1831 (in the Antiquitates Americanae by Rafn, which most 19th c. scholars accepted as having made a good case that the sagas were fact-based) and told you that this was a very long time ago and that it was a bad example of "new" material since it happened nearly 200 years ago.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/5/2014 07:12:41 am
Jason -- 2/5/2014 07:16:01 am
By the late 1800s, yes. I quote from the opening lines to McCarthy's "History of the United States," a standard high school textbook from 1919: "The first white men who ever came to America were Northmen. Our continent was discovered through accident in the year 1000..." So regardless of when you'd like to fix the date of acceptance, it was long before you or I was born.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/5/2014 07:26:11 am
Jason -- 2/5/2014 07:29:27 am
They aren't embraced as literally true even today. (They are not news reports by any stretch.) But scholars have used them as evidence for Norse presence in North America from 1831 to today. It's in the very textbooks you said needed to be rewritten! It's dishonest, though, to conflate this with the entire thousand-year history of the sagas.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/5/2014 07:37:48 am
Jason …
Brent
2/7/2014 06:45:39 am
I think you broke phil. His brain-thoughts don't match up no more.
terry the censor
2/7/2014 07:24:07 am
@Rev Phil
Athanasius Kircher
9/6/2016 02:39:29 am
"To be realistic, of course the writing of history ("historiography") is ALWAYS a work in progress, endlessly subject to re-writing and re-interpretation and revision … NOBODY knows EVERYTHING about "what really happened" …"
kevin
2/4/2014 05:59:12 pm
Based on the previous dialogue I'd wager more than one person logged off their computer steaming.
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Only Me
2/4/2014 08:48:19 pm
Kevin, I won't say you're wrong, but everything I've found on Poverty Point places the height of the culture between 1500 to 700 BCE. The Maya didn't fall until about 900 to 950 CE, so there is a huge difference of about 1650 years between them.
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kevin
2/5/2014 10:33:38 pm
Only Me, I do see your point. However, determining the age of ancient civilizations is difficult at best. Archeologists are forced to date them at the "height" of their existence. I was thinking more along the lines of a gradual assimilation. Hell, maybe they sent in a couple clans to scope out the cost of housing or crime rates.
Only Me
2/6/2014 04:48:47 am
Trouble is, 700 BCE is roughly where the PP culture ends. At that time, the Maya were busy extending into Guatemala and the Yucatan, since the Olmecs were on their way out. Following this, the Maya suffered the Preclassic Collapse about 100 CE, and didn't start becoming the empire of multiple city-states we're most familiar with, until 250 CE. 2/4/2014 10:52:49 pm
It's important to remember that this is a blog with a comments section, not a curated salon, and I don't control what people choose to say in response to my work.
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kevin
2/5/2014 11:05:57 pm
Jason,
Mandalore
2/6/2014 12:43:19 am
Artifacts are vital in tracing population movements and influences. You are correct that taking things with you is often not feasable. However, once a person gets where they are going, they start making things like they did at home bit with local materials. If there were Mayans in Georgia or thereabouts there would be artifacts with Mayan features made from local materials. In time, they would diverge from the original forms and be influenced by local culture, but still with some Mayan features recognizable. This process can be seen among the Philistines who were originally from the Aegean region. Their artifacts were produced locally but with strong indications of their proto-Greek origins.
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/6/2014 01:00:29 am
kevin - 2/5/2014 12:49:41 am
Re: Rev. Phil Gotsch's "Icelandic Sagas ... essentially true"
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/5/2014 01:47:30 am
Apparently there are good indications that The Norse Folk "rummaged" around in numerous places in pre-Columbian North America, as indicated by the discovery of several rune stones ...
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/6/2014 01:49:43 am
In our day, we have many very accurate MAPS and historical accounts extending over several centuries … so of course it's easy for US to guess and second-guess as to where *they* SHOULD have gone, the places they OUGHT to have explored, etc. ...
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An Over-Educated Grunt
2/6/2014 02:01:14 am
And in their day, they had ships powered primarily by muscle and wind, that even among the most proficient maritime civilization of the age were not ocean-going vessels. The simplest explanation is best; given the option of equally well-resourced areas within an easy voyage, why claim they were in Massachussetts or, even worse, Oklahoma, when there's no evidence of any intermediary stops, which would have been recommended for coastal voyages, or absolutely required for long journeys up the Mississippi watershed?
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/6/2014 03:27:56 am
We would love to have a clear trail of all the campsites of all the Viking and later Norse explorers, but it isn't realistic to EXPECT to find them all …
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/6/2014 03:50:53 am
Phil -
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/6/2014 04:01:48 am
The Viking / Norse artifacts and sites that have turned up in North America have all been found by sheer luck, stumbled upon by accident, and there could very well be MANY that haven't been noted much less investigated ... 2/6/2014 04:32:30 am
Just thought I'd add a link to this Parks Canada webpage about "L’Anse aux Meadows" not being Vinland per say:
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/6/2014 05:47:26 am
The one confirmed Norse site in North America was found by Helge Ingstad, not dumb luck. Ingstad's work was based on his own interpretation of the Vinlandsaga, and had solid reasoning behind it. The putative Norse sites in the United States lack that support. The closest to supported by the behavior of the people in question is the Leif Ericsson Stone, which, as I recall, has at least one eyewitness account saying it's a forgery.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/6/2014 10:27:51 am
Really … ???
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/6/2014 01:24:00 pm
Anyway, as i understand it, the site was already known (but as a presumed Native village) and the Norwegian guy was led to it by a local guy named George Decker … ???
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/7/2014 12:33:08 am
Yep, that's what happened. Ingstad read the Icelandic sagas in their original, came to the conclusion that "Vinland" was the "Land of Meadows," not the "Land of Vines," and began looking for a sheltered anchorage on a peninsula within the correct sailing distance of Iceland. When he started looking, he found a local who pointed him at some mounds, which turned out to be the sites he was looking for. So, in order, based on my discussion earlier:
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/7/2014 01:41:48 am
The specific place when Mr. Decker took the Norwegian guy was already known as a site of archaeological interest, but it had not yet been "dug" …
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/7/2014 01:49:33 am
Even from your own anecdote about the completely natural mound above, that's how most archaeological sites are found, not dumb luck. Someone reports finding an artifact, be it an arrowhead or a nail or a skull, and an archaeologist goes out and looks at it, maybe brings a spade and a sieve, and sees if there's anything else that matches up. This is not dumb luck, unless you ascribe your ability to read these words also to "dumb luck."
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/7/2014 02:07:00 am
The Norwegian guy didn't "discover" the site … He "DUG" it ...
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/7/2014 02:16:00 am
By your logic, then, nobody since the original crossing of the Bering Sea has discovered any place in the Americas, because there's already been someone there. Howard Carter didn't discover Tutankhamen's tomb, because the Valley of the Kings was already a working dig site. Stanley didn't discover the headwaters of the Nile, because there was already someone there.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/7/2014 02:30:32 am
The Norwegian guy was directed to a site that was already known and THEN he dug it and found it to be a Viking site ...
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/7/2014 02:33:56 am
Repetition. You're tailchasing. I'm done.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/7/2014 03:10:54 am
I give the Norwegian guy plenty of credit -- where it's due … He took The Sagas SERIOUSLY and studied-up on Viking voyages … So, yes, he knew that "Vinland" WASN'T going to be found in Florida or on Manhattan Island, but in the area where the site WAS found (NOT by the Norwegian guy, but long previously by locals) …
An Over-Educated Grunt
2/7/2014 03:38:47 am
I had a lengthy reply written, but I've decided to cut it off.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/7/2014 04:51:34 am
Again, I give the Norwegian guy PLENTY of credit … but his "discovery" was hardly a SOLO enterprise of staggering genius … He did hard work, followed an evidence trail, and YES had some genuine LUCK also …
Harry
2/5/2014 01:10:38 am
I think it is appropriate at this point to mention that I have played in SW's court, as it were. So far, I have posted four questions on his website, and, to his credit, he has responded to all four (so I would not say that he ignores anything that does not support his position). I thought I would present one Q and A set, unedited, without further comment at this time, other than to say that I think that Scott's answer is ironic:
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RLewis
2/5/2014 02:57:38 am
This is essentially my experience also (he answered a few of my questions). I received the same (in my opinion) vague, nonsensical responses (e.g. "letting the inscriptions tell them what it was"). Basically, he feels experts should say "I don't know" instead of giving their expert opinion that it's fake or maybe some secret code.
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The Other J.
2/5/2014 07:56:01 am
One of the problems with Wolter's response is first he says "These characters look nothing like any Native carvings I have ever seen," and then goes on to claim what he's doing is following the essence of the Scientific Method.
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The Other J.
2/5/2014 08:13:31 am
Also -- just submitted my first question to Wolter's blog. It was in response to someone else who asked why he didn't do a sonar survey of the lake, and he waved that off by saying they didn't have time. So I asked why he didn't use Scherz's 1990's sonar survey of Rock Lake to look for the pyramids (or at least show if they were or weren't where people thought they would be in the lake).
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WhiteFeather
2/6/2014 06:51:58 am
235 comments on this thread, to date.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/6/2014 10:23:18 am
Yes …
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WhiteFeather
2/7/2014 10:02:27 am
Spare me the condescending admonition, and go fall in a lake. You don't set the agenda here; I will post whatever I wish to, unless Jason finds it objectionable. Your opinion doesn't matter to me.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
2/7/2014 10:47:59 am
WhiteFeather (whoever you are) --
kevin
2/6/2014 11:45:59 am
Sorry to digress. But I thank Mandalore and Overeducated Grunt for taking time to answer my thoughts. Unfortunately, I just got off the phone with David Childress and he said both of you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.....joke. Thanks again guys.
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An Over-Educated Grunt
2/7/2014 02:04:20 am
No problem - I'll take any chance to be a lecturey know-it-all!
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2/6/2014 01:18:17 pm
Scott.
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B L
2/10/2014 08:06:07 am
I read your post on Wolter's blog, and I applaud your efforts. He's a pretty savy guy in these matters. He basically told you in a polite way to come back after you've read his books. In essence he's completely reframed your argument to one he can't lose. Instead of a debating the facts he has turned the conversation into a debate on the contents of his books. If you indulge him and spend money on his books then ultimately he has won regardless of the outcome of the debate.
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jiiikoo
2/8/2014 12:46:10 am
In my opinion Scott Wolters isn't a credible scientist, atleast not in the show America Unearthed. Most of his claims lack the proof that they desperately need and as a archeology student I find myself screaming at the TV from time to time while watching his show, but at the same time, he is entitled to his opinions whether they are true or not. It is his show and he can twist and turn every word the way he wants to twist them, that's his right. But what I hate the most, are the people who buy into his theories. That's the root of the problem, but thats not a problem caused by Scott Wolters alone, but the fault lies also with the people who take his claims at face value. We should be trying to make them understand that even though Scott isn't going with the flow doesn't make his claims true, or that presenting inaccurate data as accurate is okay. Thats why I enjoy reading Jasons blog as he tries to educate the one's who are willing to be educated.
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Alien Master
2/8/2014 01:35:12 pm
Why is almost everything on this site about Scott Wolter? Wolters show, Wolters credentials, Wolters blogs even new blogs just about stupid Wolter "updates." If this is about debunking claims about history and archeology there's millions of them out there.
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Phillip K.
2/8/2014 01:51:17 pm
I have to agree. I don't come to this site nearly as much as I used to. I held Jason in a high regard for his work and ability but I really must admit, it seems he's become obsessed with Scott Wolter anymore. I also agree with some of the posters above, it's really just become a "pissing" match anymore...
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2/8/2014 02:16:23 pm
I review Ancient Aliens each week, and this week I talked about H. P. Lovecraft. Last week was Graham Hancock... What do you want? Are you asking me to ignore the highest-rated show in the field even though it's the one everyone else is talking about?
Phillip K.
2/8/2014 07:00:35 pm
Graham Hancock...haha! Sorry, I can't help but laugh when I think about him. But to answer your question, Yes! Well, not ignore it but you never seemed to be the type to have to continually and relentlessly keep beating everybody's head with it. 2/8/2014 10:38:09 pm
5 out of every 7 blog posts most weeks, and 6 a majority of the time are on other topics besides Scott Wolter. It's not my fault if you choose not to read them. I've been covering Graham Hancock since 2001, so it's not "new." In fact, I've been doing this blog since 2011, before America Unearthed ever aired.
The Black Hole
2/9/2014 09:33:36 am
Colavito needs to talk about the popular shows otherwise nobody would care about anything he posts and he wouldn't be able to promote himself and sell his books! DUH!
Brian
2/8/2014 07:12:08 pm
What about that Petter Amundsen guy? I saw parts of his movie about Oak Island that caused that controversy in Norway and man, that guys theory sounds like something that Dan Brown would write about!
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Only Human
2/8/2014 07:20:06 pm
AM, your talking about Legend Quest. Ashley Cowie claims to be a Freemason and has located the final resting place of the spear of destiny at Area 51, the staff of moses in the tomb of Aaron at Petra and the ark of the covenant in chartes cathedral in France. It was apparently a highly rated show and his theories and investigatory ability was a lot like what we see on AU.
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Only Human
2/8/2014 07:21:28 pm
....Ron Wyatt....come on....sheesh....
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Mark
2/25/2014 06:02:54 pm
OK, so I love the new angles on true history. I like wolter, until he made a comment about 9/11 and how he was hired to examine the site. So heartfelt he was, knowing what he knows, he covered the truth up. He is a shill. He was on the scene and wont even touch the facts about it. No one is true anymore, all paid off.
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AuthorI am an author and researcher focusing on pop culture, science, and history. Bylines: New Republic, Esquire, Slate, etc. There's more about me in the About Jason tab. Newsletters
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