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The "Antediluvian" Osirion at Abydos: A Century of Deceptively Copied Claims

9/20/2019

62 Comments

 
Yesterday, Tom DeLonge of To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science announced that the History Channel had renewed TTSA’s Unidentified series for a second season. The final episode of the first season drew just 926,000 viewers, or 0.28% of the U.S. population. For all the people not watching the show—some 99.72% of Americans—the series and its media co-conspirators have an outsize influence on public discourse thanks to the complicity of the news media.
Over at Graham Hancock’s website, Freddy Silva has a new article recycling two classic claims. He repeats Hancock’s claim from the middle 1990s that the Osirion at Abydos in Egypt, typically considered a temple built by Seti I, is actually an antediluvian structure from the Ice Age, and he marries it to Andrew Collins’s belief that most ancient, well, everything reflects the constellation of Cygnus as it appeared at the end of the last Ice Age, around 10,500 BCE. Since neither of these claims is original, it is hardly worth examining them in detail, but I was interested in the way that mistakes from centuries past keep finding their way back to the surface.
 
To dispense with one bizarre idea, Silva starts by suggesting that Diodorus Siculus recorded that the Osirion and the surrounding region had once been a wet oasis destroyed by the climate change of the terminal Ice Age. He cites Diodorus at 3.55, where he says “A small saltwater lake at Siwa is all that remains. Referring to an older source, Diodorus of Sicily describes how it ‘disappeared from sight in the course of an earthquake, when those parts of it which lay toward the ocean were torn asunder,’ leaving behind the Sahara.” That’s not at all what Diodorus said. He was referring to the Atlanteans—not from Atlantis, but from the Atlas Mountains of what is now Morocco. As you might note from the “torn asunder” phrasing, he is speaking of the myth that part of the coast of Africa collapsed into the ocean. The reference to a marsh in 3.55 refers back to a discussion of the marsh in 3.53, where Diodorus describes it as being the infamously mythical Lake Tritonis (from the Argonaut legend, among others) in “Libya” (i.e. north Africa) and adjacent to the ocean. However you define it, it isn’t the Osirion at Abydos, nor does the story refer to desertification of Egypt or even north Africa.
 
But in recycling Hancock’s discussion of the Osirion’s allegedly anomalous megalithic architecture, Silva accidentally lays bare the origins of the argument:
In this regard, the Osirion has two counterparts downriver at Giza—the Sphynx Temple and the Valley Temple, all constructed with identical megalithic blocks of red granite (those of the Sphynx Temple were looted for building material) using the same clean, graphic layout, devoid of inscription. The Giza temples were also reached by boat when the waters of the Nile lapped at their respective entrances. The intermediate walls of the Valley Temple are made from massive blocks of limestone quarried from the Sphynx enclosure next door and are clearly eroded by water, lots of water. Since it has been convincingly argued that the Sphynx itself was carved to face its counterpart in the sky, the constellation Leo on the spring equinox c.10,400 BC, ostensibly the two sites are contemporaries of each other. Furthermore, during the epoch prior to 10,000 BC, the enclosure in which this lion sits was also weathered by extensive flooding and rainfall, when northeast Africa had a pluvial climate. Thus by weathering and design alone, the Osirion, Sphynx Temple and Valley Temple were built contemporaneously.
He goes on to repeat the idea put forward by Hancock and Robert Bauval in Keeper of Genesis (a.k.a. Mystery of the Sphinx) that the builders were the Followers of Horus, the Shemsu Hor, before the Ice Age meltdown remembered as the Great Flood.
 
What amazes me is that all of this is Victorian leftovers born of a mistake by French archaeologists in the middle 1800s. In the 1850s, Auguste Mariette uncovered the famous Inventory Stela while conducting excavations near the Sphinx. Although the stela had been carved around 670 BCE, Mariette mistook it for a genuine record of the Old Kingdom. Because it referenced the Sphinx as existing prior to Khufu, and suggested that one of the ancient temples beside the Sphinx had been dedicated to Osiris, Mariette came to believe that the Sphinx and the temples beside it were pre-dynastic. His successor, Gaston Maspero, adopted these beliefs and added that the people responsible for the construction of these pre-dynastic wonders were the Followers of Horus. It was from Maspero that R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz learned of the supposed pre-dynastic date for the Sphinx, leading him to imagine that the statue had been eroded by water as a way of justifying Maspero’s claims. John Anthony West got the idea from Schwaller de Lubicz and Robert Schoch got it from West.
 
In case you are wondering about the Osirion, it came into the same constellation of nineteenth century speculation a little later, in the years leading up to World War I, when the Swiss archaeologist Henri Édouard Naville excavated at Abydos. The Osirion itself had been discovered in the early 1900s by Witch Cult in Western Europe author Margaret Murray and Flinders Petrie. A Francophone, Naville was familiar with Mariette’s and Maspero’s ideas and therefore concluded that the stylistic similarity between the Osirion on the temples near the Sphinx meant that the Osirion was of the same heritage. He decided that it (or, more accurately, the semi-subterranean pool within it) was “probably one of the most ancient constructions” still preserved in all of Egypt. He made the claim in 1914, when he had finished excavations of the Osirion. However, he explicitly attributed it to the Fourth Dynasty--not the predynastic period—because he accepted the internationally recognized dating of the Giza temples.
 
There is a whole subtext not worth going into about British and Continental rivalry, both between Britain and France competing to find the oldest and greatest Egyptian sites in general and the personal animosity between Naville and Petrie (the latter thought the former’s field methods to be destructive) who nevertheless had to work together because they were funded by the same organization. This international rivalry helped keep Mariette’s wrongheaded hypothesis alive in France long after the rest of the world recognized the error. It also helped keep alive some bad ideas that continue to circulate among pseudo-history writers today.
 
The reason we have this claim about the Osirion banging around today, more or less, is that David Childress copied a newspaper article about Naville’s claim into his 1989 book Lost Cities & Ancient Mysteries of Africa & Arabia, which gave it new life among the pseudo-history crowd despite (or because of) its widespread rejection by professional Egyptologists. You see, the Illustrated London News excerpted parts of Naville’s report as published in the English-language press, such as Scientific American, but left out key details, including the identification of the site with the Fourth Dynasty. Thus, the oldest “preserved” site became the most ancient temple in Egypt, and combined with Maspero’s ideas to back-date the Osirion to the mistaken pre-dynastic date of the Sphinx and Valley Temples.
 
Weirdly, Childress quotes parts of Naville’s report not given by the News while citing the News, suggesting he intentionally withheld information after checking the source. My guess is that he was plagiarizing from Edward Bacon’s 1976 book The Great Archaeologists and looking for a way to get around copyright restrictions.
 
Here are the various versions as quoted so you can see for yourself. Note that he full version I have comes from a U.S. reprint in Scientific American of a British reprint of a still earlier British edition:
Illustrated London News, May 30, 1914
The Tomb of Osiris is of a later date than the pool with its cells. ... As for the pool, it is probably one of the most ancient constructions which have been preserved in Egypt. . . . (ellipses in original)
 
Scientific American, September 26, 1914

The tomb of Osiris is of a later date than the pool with its cells. It dates from the time of Seti I. the grandfather of Menephtah, who probably made it when he built his temple. As for the pool, it is probably one of the most ancient constructions which have been preserved in Egypt. It Is exactly in the style of the so-called temple of the Sphinx, which is a work of the Fourth Dynasty, and one of the characteristic features of which is the total absence of any inscription or ornament. But the pool is even more colossal.
 
Edward Bacon, The Great Archaeologists (1976)
The Tomb of Osiris is of a later date than the pool with its cells. … As for the pool, it is probably one of the most ancient constructions which have been preserved in Egypt. It is exactly in the style of the so-called temple of the Sphinx, which is a work of the IVth Dynasty, and one of the characteristic features of which is the total absence of any inscription or ornament. But the pool is even more colossal. (ellipses in original)
 
David Childress, Lost Cities & Ancient Mysteries of Africa & Arabia (1989)
… As for the pool, it is probably one of the most ancient constructions which have been preserved in Egypt. It is exactly in the style of the so-called temple of the Sphinx … and one of the characteristic features of which is the total absence of any inscription or ornament. But the pool is even more colossal. (ellipses in original)
Childress intentionally omitted the Fourth Dynasty reference to make Naville look as though he supported a pre-dynastic date for the Osirion, because Childress has always been a deceitful opportunist.
 
The long and short of it is that this is another case where authors build houses of cards atop pillars of sand and rely on dubious Victorian authorities to prop it all up.
62 Comments
Peter Kirchmeir
9/20/2019 09:05:02 am

A majestic lat paragraph...
thanks

Reply
E.P. Grondine
9/20/2019 04:12:45 pm

Look Asshole,

I'm still waiting for your translation of Al-Idrisi, Shit for Brains.

Reply
George of the Jungle
9/20/2019 05:32:22 pm

Sure is easy to see why Andy White banned you from his site.

E.P. Grondine
9/21/2019 10:48:14 am

It look like I hav angered someond,so he is posting using my name.

As far as Andy White goes, any archaeologist who thoughtlessly and needlessly exposes his crew to any poison plant is not any good, and he needs to get his act together.

Kent
9/21/2019 02:12:39 pm

Wow you really do have issues.

Show us on the doll where the poison ivy touched you.

Why are you such a horse's ass?

https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/no-ill-nature-the-surprising-history-and-science-of-poison-ivy-and-its-relatives

E.P. Grondine
9/21/2019 04:05:50 pm

Kent, this shit nearly killed me when I was 10 years old.

I expect any archaeologist to look after the safety of his crew.

Kent
9/21/2019 05:08:18 pm

Well then, I'm extremely disappointed in poison ivy. "Nearly" is nowhere near good enough.

You need to grow up and stop obsessing Granny.

Spicy Grandma
9/21/2019 07:24:49 pm

That's right! Granny is obsessed enough!

Stop, oh cease and desist you obsessor of grannies!

E.P. Grondine
9/22/2019 08:30:21 am

You have good archaeologists andyou have bad archaeologists.
I am looking forward to the day Andy spreads a nice rash to his wife's cooch.

Look Asshole
9/23/2019 09:43:16 pm

Why am I so fascinated with setting other men's wives' cooches on fire?

TONY S.
9/20/2019 09:34:21 am

Childress has proven time and again to be a bald faced liar and a grade A shoveler of bullshit. I can’t remember exactly when, but at some point West or Hancock claimed that the sand surrounding and covering the Osirion was actually packed Nile silt, brought down into the area by post Ice Age meltwater floods. The idea being that the temple was built on what was then ground level, being subsequently inundated and buried, later being found by the dynastic Egyptians. It’s another key piece of disinformation being used by the fringe to bolster their claims for an antediluvian Osirion.

Reply
G.I. Gurdjieff
9/20/2019 03:28:50 pm

I have a map of pre-sand Egypt.

Reply
TONY S.
9/20/2019 04:48:01 pm

So I've heard. I've got a map of ice free Antarctica.

You, Cayce, and Donnelly should get together and with Wolter and have a four way circle jerk. Maybe you could convince Blavatsky to watch it happen.

Kent
9/21/2019 02:14:32 pm

You do know that the Sahara used to have lakes and stuff, right?

TONY S.
9/21/2019 07:59:24 pm

Of course; I've known that since the 90's.

TONY S.
9/21/2019 09:03:16 pm

Gurdjieff's bullshit claim has nothing to do with the paleo-climatological/geological history of northern Africa.

Richard Burton
9/21/2019 09:36:30 pm

As opposed to the Sahara not currently having lakes and stuff?


JOHN HANNING SPEKE
9/21/2019 10:17:28 pm

But lots and lots of sand now?

H.P. LOVECRAFT
9/20/2019 09:53:00 am

The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.

Reply
Fritz Leiber
9/20/2019 06:41:42 pm

Always good to see you around.

You've heard we lost Wolfe?

Reply
H.P. Lovecraft
9/20/2019 06:43:56 pm

Hey! Fritz!

Yes. I am deeply saddened by his passing.

Who does that leave us with, then?

H. P. LOVECRAFT
9/20/2019 06:55:52 pm

Indeed, I heard last April. Very sad.

Alas, I didn't get the opportunity to know him.

Good to see you too, young Fritz.

H.P. LOVECRAFT
9/20/2019 06:58:17 pm

Ack! A doppelganger answered you first, my good Fritz! Like something out of one of my tales!

Fritz Leiber
9/20/2019 07:03:17 pm

Nothing to worry about. That's just KENTHULHU.

Don't pay him no nevermind.

How's the migraines?

H.P. LOVECRAFT
9/20/2019 07:09:16 pm

Better lately, thank you for remembering. They are always worse during spells of cold weather. The beastly New England winters try my constitution to the utmost, I'm afraid. I hibernate in the winter months, living by my fireplace. But,on the positive side, I get most of my writing done during that time,whether be it revisions or original fiction or correspondence with the gang. Providence is my ancestral home and it is beautiful in every way; I only wish the weather was milder throughout the year.

Fritz Leiber
9/20/2019 07:10:57 pm

Also?

I think, technically, that would be a Vardøger, and not a Doppelgänger.

Anyhow, so who's left then? I suppose Crowley.

Fritz Leiber
9/20/2019 09:26:16 pm

You know, Howard, that I love you.

I sometimes wish that you could have retired to some drier climate. Maybe Eagle Rock, or Pasadena. But I fear the culture shock would have been worse than the climate had been for you in Providence.

I suppose you were always right where you should have been. I just wish you would have found some way to eat more.

Standing by as usual, my friend.

Khat Fancier
9/21/2019 02:22:18 pm

Is Nigger Man still with us?

H. P. LOVECRAFT
9/21/2019 08:02:25 pm

Khat... Unfortunately no, I lost him some time ago. The great wandering manx went out for a walk one night and never returned. It broke my heart. However, I have no doubt that he eventually returned to his primordial home in Ulthar.

H.P. LOVECRAFT
9/21/2019 08:03:24 pm

Dear Fritz, I look forward to talking with you more!

Khat Fancer
9/21/2019 08:51:32 pm

I hope the poison ivies didn't take him.

H. P. LOVECRAFT
9/21/2019 08:55:29 pm

He was a big, brawny boy with the magic of ancient ages in him. The feline was unconquerable!

H. P. LOVECRAFT
9/23/2019 08:32:35 pm

Dearest Fritz:

Apologies for the late reply! As some of the other gang can tell you, I occasionally allow myself to get delayed when answering correspondence. When the weather is warm and dry, I cannot resist my walks in the sloped hills outside town, and along the cliffs overlooking the Seekonk.

I feel the same way about you, old friend. I miss you dearly, and am glad you have prospered in the years since I have gone.

Yes, had I known then what I know now, I would have taken better care of myself regarding my diet, and my long term physical health in general. I had a lifelong fear of hospitals and doctors in general because of what happened to both my parents, and it kept me from seeking attention until it was too late to treat my cancer. Alas,I left too soon. So many things left unseen, and unread, and unwritten. And I know it shocked and saddened my friends, who always missed me thereafter.

You'requite right,of course. Although there were several places that I visited which I might have liked to have moved to, in the end, Providence was the only home for me.

Aaa
9/20/2019 10:26:02 am

We are parhetic enough not be able to leave the small rock called Earth. Yet skeptics/scientists act like they know all the answers.

Reply
NATHANIEL WINGATE PEASELEE
9/20/2019 01:54:36 pm

Not even the Old Ones with their shuggoths, nor the Fungi from Yuggoth, or great Cthulhu dreaming in his sunken city have all the answers. Only the Great Race, whose mind captive I was, truly know all the secrets of the universe!

Reply
Neil Armstrong
9/20/2019 08:00:24 pm

Say what?

Reply
Buzz
9/20/2019 11:30:01 pm

Jesus. Shut up, Neil.

Bezalel
9/23/2019 09:35:16 am

We scientists don't think we have all the answers...but we definitely possess the methods and ability to find them.

Further, we have the humility to accept that current answers DO NOT CHANGE without overwhelming evidence.

It really is that simple
Scientific progress is slowwwwwww
Steady
Cautious
Rigorous
Sure.

Not half cocked and careless and scatterbrained.

Reply
Kent's Editor
9/20/2019 03:26:25 pm

"it came into the is same"

Reply
TONY S.
9/21/2019 10:13:41 am

Jason, you erred in the article. The alternate name for Bauval and Hancock’s book Keeper of Genesis is MESSAGE of the Sphinx. MYSTERY of the Sphinx was the 1993 documentary featuring West and Schoch.

Reply
Return of a man called Cootch
9/23/2019 01:29:55 pm

It's spelled "lynchpin" you stupid smelly repulsive old man. And Plato's Atlantis was 9,000 years before Solon, so NOT 10,000 years ago, you stupid smelly repulsive old man.

Reply
TONY S.
9/23/2019 06:34:33 pm

I think you meant this for Mr. Grondine.

Vide Infra
9/23/2019 07:48:39 pm

.

E.P. Grondine
9/21/2019 11:07:49 am

The lynhpin for the entire pile of shit is Plato's Atlantis concoction, with its date of 10,000 years ago.

It is true that the Egyptian megalithic temples show an unusual architecture for Egypt, but these folks regularly glide by the excavations of the workers' quarters on the Giza Plateau.

Just to clear this up, I am pretty certain that Plato's tale preserves a memory of a late bronze age impact mega-tsunami in the Atlantic Ocean. The 10,000 bce date may be either a manuscript transmission error, or perhaps an insertion or conflation of a date for the Holocene start impacts.

I would also like to float the idea that the pillars of the Sphinx temple may have been painted with inscriptions, which led to the mythical Hall of Records.

Future excavations are likely to lead to irrefutable evidence as to what really occurred. There appear to have been two Atlantic Ocean impact tsunamis; the people working the geology are seriously under funded for so important a task.

Reply
Ham Grancock
9/21/2019 02:27:53 pm

Having Otis the town drunk as the main advocate doesn't help.

Reply
RON DIPENGE
9/23/2019 09:50:02 am

Look Asshole

I may be an idiot but I'm not drunk
Shit for Brains

Andy White's Wife's Inflamed angry cootch
9/23/2019 10:06:35 am

May you emulate Ira Hayes, face down in a puddle.

E.P. Grondine
9/23/2019 10:35:36 am

Its spelled cooch, no "t".

Any archaeologist who does not ensure the safety of his crew is a bad archaeologist. I've seen poison oak and ivy take out an entire field crew working George Washington's boyhood home. Andy needs to get his shit together and figure out how to deal with this hazard, now.

An apology would also be nice.

Andy's Wife's inflamed angry t'cootch
9/23/2019 01:20:59 pm

Tick tock, old timer. Document your claims and your clams and your cootch. I spell it after the manner of the Iroquois and the Shawnee. You being a fake Indian wouldn't know anything about that.

Doc Rock
9/23/2019 06:16:17 pm

I've done my share of dirt archaeology in the Deep South and lower Midwest. Can't recall when poison ivy wasn't pretty much part of the daily routine. Where do you set the bar in terms of needless or negligent exposure to poison ivy?

ANDY WHITE'S WIFE'S INFLAMED ANGRY COOTCH
9/23/2019 07:57:21 pm

It's all about E.P. Grondine being a dirty smelly repulsive old man with idiotic obsessions.

Natural causes is our friend.

Joe Scales
9/23/2019 10:04:42 pm

I think it's pretty clear at this point that someone lost their junk at age ten due to a raging infection from a bout with a plant. My sympathies. .

I.P. Grondinely
9/23/2019 10:20:07 pm

If only he could have crafted a leather sheath for it, like a Bic lighter...

How terrible to lose one's junk at such a young age and find themselves still junkless in their dotage after a lifetime of junklessness.

E.P. Grondine
9/24/2019 08:26:05 am

Hi Doc -

When you are at a site year after year, know about the poisonous plants there, and do not use 2-4-dD to take them out and do not make washes available for your crew after they are affected, then you've blown it.

It is like excavating in the desert without water for your crew.

While Andy does not appear to have much reaction to these plants, he appears incapable of understanding that that is not true for everyone.

The 40$ wash from Walmart is about the best antidote I am aware of, and as you know, regular washing after exposure is a must. AW's site is at a river, so a hand wash there should be part of his daily protocol for his crew. And a warning.

What would you do? Whatever it is, AW is not doing it.

AW has to realize he has a problem and deal with it. Until then, he is a bad archaeologist who is endangering his crew.

Like I said before, I watched this shit take out a crew at the site of George Washington's boyhood home. And I have not mentioned a certain lady who mowed the grass in shorts despite my multiple and loud warnings not to.

Kent
9/24/2019 02:23:45 pm

So Mr. Grondine advocates:

1. the use of a carcinogen; and
2. washing one's hands.

Science!

E.P. Grondine yelling at the woman mowing the lawn: "TAKE OFF YOUR SHORTS IMMEDIATELY!!!"

Doc Rock
9/24/2019 08:51:26 pm

EP,

I'm about average in terms of vulnerability to poison ivy. Dressing sensibly and a long hot soapy shower at the end of the day always worked for me. My kid is screwed up enough as it is. But at least he isn't a flipper baby which is what someone might end up with if they spend enough time in a herbicide drenched environment for extended periods. If someone is so sensitive to poison ivy that basic precautions, that most people learn by the 5th grade, don't work then they probably should be working the lab or switching their interest to sociology.

Homer Sextown
9/24/2019 09:13:07 pm

Or he should babble like a ninny, like a fartbag, like a town drunk, and yell at women to TAKE THEIR SHORTS OFF!!!

Also talk about other men's wives "cootches". Stay classy, Mr. Grondine!

Jim
9/24/2019 10:09:11 am

E.P. , You colossal fartbag, Andy didn't buy into your pseudo science or take your nonsensical amateur advice so you are attacking him using this nonsense as an excuse, just stfu.

Reply
TONY S.
9/24/2019 10:49:59 am

I’d never heard of Andy White before he was mentioned here. I’ve gone back and read through his most recent blog posts; I like what I’ve seen and read from him.

Reply
Jim
9/24/2019 11:15:09 am

The most fun on Andy's blog was when he massively debunked Hutton Pulitzer's fake roman sword.

https://www.andywhiteanthropology.com/blog/roman-sword-advocate-wants-me-to-debate-data-im-not-allowed-to-see

There are a lot of blog posts about it.
Swordgate posts:

https://www.andywhiteanthropology.com/blog/roman-sword-advocate-wants-me-to-debate-data-im-not-allowed-to-see

Jim
9/24/2019 11:16:52 am

Oops the second link should be this:

https://www.andywhiteanthropology.com/blog/category/swordgate

Kent
9/24/2019 03:57:44 pm

Jim makes a good point here.

Reply

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