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The Depressingly Fake Mysteries of America's Stonehenge

1/15/2013

166 Comments

 
I was so happy to discover that there are only two episodes left in the first season of America Unearthed. [Update: I am informed that the full first season will be 13 episodes and H2 has simply failed to list air dates beyond 1/25 on the show's website.] Then, of course, I was saddened to see the topics left to cover in the alternative history program’s two remaining hours: ancient Egyptian bull worshipers in Arkansas and America’s Stonehenge, formerly known as Mystery Hill.

I have absolutely no idea what type of “mysterious” boulder with an “Egyptian” carving of the Apis bull the show plans to investigate this coming week, but America’s Stonehenge is someplace I’m very familiar with. The site is an arrangement of various small stone grottos and a ring of small standing stones located in Salem, New Hampshire.

I’ve visited the site (my aunt lives in the area), and unlike series star Scott Wolter I was not impressed. So, when I get to review this episode in two weeks, I’ll be able to speak from experience. The episode description tells me that Wolter will “uncover” a mysterious “sacrificial table” at Mystery Hill, supposedly carved with a channel to collect the blood of human victims. That’s hilarious because I have a photograph of me lying spread-eagle across the “sacrificial table,” in contravention of the site’s rules. I am not posting that photo because it looks even sillier than I have described it. (Plus, it’s in my parents’ photo album, safely locked hundreds of miles away where I can’t get at it.) Also: Publicity puffery aside, there is no way to “uncover” the main attraction on full display at the center of the site!

The “sacrificial table” is actually a colonial-era lye-leaching stone used in soap-making. Similar stones were also used for apple pressing and other tasks. The image below at left is a known apple-pressing stone, and the image at right is the “sacrificial table.” I think you can see they are virtually identical in form, just as the lye-leaching table is as well.

Lye Stone
Apple-pressing stone from StoneStructures.org. Click for source page.
Sacrificial Table
Sacrificial Table at Mystery Hill via PerceptiveTravel.com. Click for source page.
Mystery Hill is in all likelihood a collection of eighteenth and nineteenth century farming structures, cold cellars, etc. It was known in the early 1900s as Jonathan Pattee’s Cave, and he used the stone grottos for farm storage, much as earlier occupants had done. Drill marks from the 1830s onward indicate the continuous rearrangement of the stones. The site was extensively remodeled after 1937, when William Godwin bought the stone structures and convinced himself that Celtic migrants from Ireland had built them in the Middle Ages. He then “restored” the structures to what he felt was the “original” configuration, thus creating the pseudo-Celtic, pseudo-Neolithic look of the place as it is seen today. Any claims about astronomical alignments at the site, of course, are therefore largely false because the stones’ positions have been heavily and repeatedly altered.

Later, alternative writers abandoned the Celtic hypothesis and suggested the site was built by Phoenicians, citing as evidence ambiguous scratch marks on some of the rocks (likely tool marks from quarrying) that fringe writers like Barry Fell found to be evidence of not one but three ancient languages: Phoenician, Ogham, and Iberian-Punic. These alphabets are particularly easy to “find” in random scratch marks because they are composed largely of straight lines and angles.

If the site as it currently stands is a modern fake, there is evidence of “megaliths” at Mystery Hill. Native Americans came there thousands of years ago and used the large boulders in the area to chip away stone tools. This left behind large stone cores from the quarrying that could be mistaken for fallen megalithic architecture. (And who knows, maybe some ancient Native group thought it would be cute to arrange them artistically.)

It is often said that H. P. Lovecraft based the stone circle atop Sentinel Hill in The Dunwich Horror (1928) on Mystery Hill, and nearly every guidebook to the site or to weird things in New England repeats the claim. However, many authors say Lovecraft visited in 1937—impossible, since he lay dying in a Providence hospital—or other years long after Dunwich was written. As Lovecraft scholar S. T. Joshi has pointed out, there is no evidence Lovecraft visited the site prior to writing the story, and the only evidence he ever saw it was the much later recollection of H. Warner Munn that he was fairly certain he must have taken Lovecraft to see the site sometime in the 1930s. If that was the case, there might be an echo of Mystery Hill in the stone circle and sacrificial slab featured in “The Diary of Alonzo Typer” (1935), but Lovecraft’s familiarity with the general concept of stone circles from his reading of ancient history does not require such direct influence.

166 Comments
Tara Jordan
1/15/2013 05:14:22 am

Scott Wolter,Even more unscientific speculative crap from this annoying character who could probably also define himself as a forensic gynecologist.Plus there is the cherry on top of the cake,the unbearable.The 50 yr old guy running around in short pants.This cartoonish character is the definition of Maximum turn off

Reply
spacej7
1/26/2013 04:08:21 am

I just finished watching this episode and was interested, so I began looking this up on the internet. With an archeology background, I wanted to know more about the dating techniques and what scientific evidence that the archeologists found there. Also, seeing as how I have never heard of any human sacrifice in that area of America, I was not surprised to find out that that stone was just a lye leeching stone. I am amazed that this channel has allowed this nonsense to be aired on national television. They are clearly ignoring the scientific evidence of this site and deliberatly fooling the viewers.Unbelievable.....

Reply
bill
3/7/2013 01:33:46 pm

could it be possible the table stone was use for sacrifice in earlier times then was turned into a lye leeching stone by settlers in the area? im just curious because it seems to me to be very possible.

Roger Sherman link
3/29/2013 04:34:55 am

There are many other sites I have seen in New England that have standing stones near them and Olgam written on stone. As for UFOs, I have had experiences and friends and relatives have too. To believe one needs the experiences. My family came over here from England on the 2nd try of the Speedwell, built farms, but never the stoneworks like these.

Leslie link
7/19/2015 05:39:42 pm

no kidding they producing propaganda by a loser who never enters a cave or even produces his degree in the credits. garbage that needs to stop in the real world guys like this.

richard
4/21/2017 08:19:35 am

This was on coasttocoastam last night. The claim on their website is that carbon dating shows an age of 4000 years BP. They do not tell what object they dated. Carbon dating does not work on in organic objects like rocks! Just part of the hoax. As geologist I also find Scott a little embarrassing.

Eddy
1/30/2019 06:11:52 am

It makes sense to me that a stone used in farming techniques would be sensible bcs there is NO human sacrifice in N.H.There was and is farming though. I like the place and am interested in Stonehenge in England but I'm also interested in the truth.Glad to see that science is not dead yet.

Barb
1/27/2013 03:38:26 am

Sounds pretty closed minded to me. What are you scared of? History as we know it is only what they want you to believe, not really the truth.

Reply
Al
2/10/2013 04:03:18 pm

Up oh, now we have the enigmatic "they". Perhaps history is not really what you believe Barb.

HB Kelley
11/29/2013 05:28:01 pm

Good for you Barb. I know of a cave here in Arizona that does have Knights Templar and Celtic writing all over in it and it and it is dated in the 1300 hundreds. It's sad to see some will never admit what we call America was discovered long before Columbus.

Elio
1/14/2014 01:51:54 am

I totally agree. This Author talks about an Apple-pressing stone??? Are you kidding me?? Is that all his conclusion??? Ok, maybe it was used for something like that later on but didn't he watch the show?? The site resembles more of a sacred ground. What about when he went in the cave below the stone that had a voice tunnel??? What about the discovered stone with the Canaanite scripting which mentions BAAL the phoenician God? What about the mysterious incredible linking of the solstice system to stonehenge and ends in Beirut. Are these Apple farmers who did that???? It's funny how everyone feels offended, or right away refutes an incredible history finding. What about the maps on a carthagian coin. I'm orgininally from Lebanon. And we have studied and known through ages that my ancestors were the first to sail the world, started commerce and trade and created the Alphabet. I'm not one bit surprised if they reached America long before Christopher Columbus set foot there.

Mick
3/6/2013 03:40:41 pm

Thank you for the term "forensic gynecologist" as that would explain
who produced the "Vagina Monoliths".

Reply
Bob H
5/18/2013 07:15:05 am

I believe the correct term would be "Forensic Gynogeologist"..yeah?

Guy
2/8/2014 04:14:13 pm

Apples are not native to north america So I think an apple pressing table doesn't fit either.

Jennifer
7/12/2014 01:54:56 pm

OMG Mick, that's the funniest thing ever!

Gooze
9/26/2015 07:46:43 pm

The Vagina Monoliths. Do they have an entrance?. Funny. But as you can all check. This show is still on. On it's 3rd season.

Roger Sherman link
3/22/2013 10:52:27 am

I suppose nyou need a tie and suit? There are so many sites here in New England with Olgam carved in stone. Read some of Barry Felds books.

Reply
robert Miller
3/24/2013 01:39:38 am

We have them in West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky also

Kim Johnson
3/1/2014 01:55:03 pm

Are we all so conditioned to discount the possibility the show may just be exactly as presented? I was interested an intrigued. The thought of the

Roger Sherman link
4/6/2013 05:00:42 am

Been to many sites and seen the evidence. Why in the hell would a farmer make a root celler with standing stones around them? And Olgam on mantel stones? There was on such site that was in the woods away from any farms and had carved stones all around, standing stones and Olgam on the mantel that Berry Fell (A code breaker for the govenment at one time say..).A young price is buried here in Olgam!. I videod and have pics of the sites! Then Stonehenge is a fake!

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/6/2013 05:05:51 am

The standing stones were put in place after 1937 when the then-owner rebuilt the site to conform to his idea of its original shape. They are in all likelihood not original features. Barry Fell was not an expert in Ogham, and Ogham scholars did not confirm his alleged identifications of the writing in the New World.

Gianna
2/1/2019 03:04:24 pm

Why are you ruining it for Others!!!

Daniel Perez
2/9/2019 11:13:17 am

Ignorance prevails when those who self-describe as 'scientific' don't rely on factual evidence. The 'reconstruction' is not documented as factual. The carbon dating was done by independent parties. I do not know exactly what took place at this site, but those who declare it to be 'fake' are just delusional.

Roger Sherman link
4/6/2013 05:35:16 am

I know what Olgam looks like...If you had seen this isolated site in the woods Why in the hell would a Famer place a pointed standing stone inside? and just outside and around the mound? All the stones had carvings that lay on the ground in a 300 feet radius!
Why would a farmer go to all this trouble where there was never a farm buiklding. My ancestors made root cellars here and they never made Air vents (Square)m in the roofs. Then again, Farmers in Europe must of built the ones there as root cellers...nothing more!

Reply
Lynn LK
8/7/2013 06:09:55 pm

If you know what Olgam looks like you will know that it is not Olgam but Ogham. Most of which found in the US is on a horizontal plane rather then the celtic ogham which is on a vertical plane. There are no root cellars in Europe they are called souterrains, most research on the souterrains suggest that they were a place to hide during invasions not to store food.

Richard Dey
3/5/2014 01:00:34 am

Though he never visited the site, Robert Graves had pictures of it and that at Cavendish and othrs, and concluded that the Ogham was in fact legitimate -- nothing known to Yankee farmers who learnt their English by samplers on the kitchen wall. Debunkers have got to come up with a better story than debunking TV sensationalists. They have to explain the use of language, the transfer of momgod worship to fratritheism and solar worship, deal with the Viking voyages of 1000 years ago, now proven, which thus could have been preceded. In future-think, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof; in retrothink, extraordinary sites require extraordinary debunking. Incredulilty ain't it -- and Alongonkins didin't make it and my Yankee ancestors sure didn't. They had other ways to squeeze apples, make lye for soap, and (he missed this one) lots easier ropewalks to walk. If it's Yankee, where is the horse treadmill? Yankees might have used the site, but they sure didn't build it. They were pragmatists, and this site is ceremonial (if not astrological) and these sites (there are several) are more probably both. It's the incredulity that's incredulous; the speculations are many of them good thinking. Open minds, everybody. There are revelations yet to come ....

Dora
4/10/2016 02:11:26 pm

@Lynn LK: plenty of root cellars all over Europe, many didn't last long, as long as cellars under buildings. And yes, there were built for storing food.
At times they were used as shelter as well,if emergency arose, but the main purpose was and is food storage. I know people who still have such, and use it for storage, and one family had root cellar but took it apart etc. Farmers couldn't store certain plants at all without those structures.

Roger Sherman link
4/6/2013 05:35:24 am

I know what Olgam looks like...If you had seen this isolated site in the woods Why in the hell would a Famer place a pointed standing stone inside? and just outside and around the mound? All the stones had carvings that lay on the ground in a 300 feet radius!
Why would a farmer go to all this trouble where there was never a farm buiklding. My ancestors made root cellars here and they never made Air vents (Square)m in the roofs. Then again, Farmers in Europe must of built the ones there as root cellers...nothing more!

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Roger Sherman link
4/6/2013 05:35:29 am

I know what Olgam looks like...If you had seen this isolated site in the woods Why in the hell would a Famer place a pointed standing stone inside? and just outside and around the mound? All the stones had carvings that lay on the ground in a 300 feet radius!
Why would a farmer go to all this trouble where there was never a farm buiklding. My ancestors made root cellars here and they never made Air vents (Square)m in the roofs. Then again, Farmers in Europe must of built the ones there as root cellers...nothing more!

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Roger Sherman link
4/6/2013 05:35:35 am

I know what Olgam looks like...If you had seen this isolated site in the woods Why in the hell would a Famer place a pointed standing stone inside? and just outside and around the mound? All the stones had carvings that lay on the ground in a 300 feet radius!
Why would a farmer go to all this trouble where there was never a farm buiklding. My ancestors made root cellars here and they never made Air vents (Square)m in the roofs. Then again, Farmers in Europe must of built the ones there as root cellers...nothing more!

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Roger Sherman link
4/6/2013 05:37:37 am

I know what Olgam looks like...If you had seen this isolated site in the woods Why in the hell would a Famer place a pointed standing stone inside? and just outside and around the mound? All the stones had carvings that lay on the ground in a 300 feet radius!
Why would a farmer go to all this trouble where there was never a farm buiklding. My ancestors made root cellars here and they never made Air vents (Square)m in the roofs. Then again, Farmers in Europe must of built the ones there as root cellers...nothing more!

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HB Kelley
12/3/2013 03:18:33 am

How funny it is that you are named Tara, is it after the Hill of Tara in Ireland or the Tara mound in Ireland. Sounds like you are like Jason, can't believe anything that might show what we were taught in school could be wrong. Long before America Unearthed came along, evidence of Europeans coming to America long before Columbus has been discovered all over America, hundreds of years before he came to the Americas. People should just watch the show and if they don't believe it, turn it off and not say some of the hateful things you did about Scott. I know of a cave here in Arizona that has Knights Templar and what looks like Celtic writing in it and it has a date in the 1300 hundreds. America Unearthed is a very informative show and only gives one the possibility of things not always being what we were taught and that is up to the person watching to make up their mind. I'm very open minded, because like all of us today, we were not there way back then, so who really knows what will be discovered. What will you do or say if an arc of the covenant were to be discovered and it changed everything we were taught. Me, I'm going to go on as I have always been, NICE to people unless they tread on me.

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HB Kelley
12/3/2013 03:19:47 am

How funny it is that you are named Tara, is it after the Hill of Tara in Ireland or the Tara mound in Ireland. Sounds like you can't believe anything that might show what we were taught in school could be wrong. Long before America Unearthed came along, evidence of Europeans coming to America long before Columbus has been discovered all over America, hundreds of years before he came to the Americas. People should just watch the show and if they don't believe it, turn it off and not say some of the hateful things you did about Scott. I know of a cave here in Arizona that has Knights Templar and what looks like Celtic writing in it and it has a date in the 1300 hundreds. America Unearthed is a very informative show and only gives one the possibility of things not always being what we were taught and that is up to the person watching to make up their mind. I'm very open minded, because like all of us today, we were not there way back then, so who really knows what will be discovered. What will you do or say if an arc of the covenant were to be discovered and it changed everything we were taught. Me, I'm going to go on as I have always been, NICE to people unless they tread on me.

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s gib
1/20/2014 06:21:29 am

Well, I don't believe everything that I see, hear, or have been taught. With that said, the best thing about these shows/theories is that they get more people researching the topics and with that comes more answers to what we are not completely certain as of yet. Keep an open mind, and maybe one day we will know the true story of our existence/ history.

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Abe
9/10/2014 07:46:16 am

What is right and what is wrong? Let's go biblical, 10 commandments, Noah's ark, shroud of Turin, Dead Sea Scrolls (to align historic needs), the crucifix, and on and on and on ... someone writes, someone likes to believe ...
Reality dust to dust

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Dan link
2/25/2015 01:45:14 am

Ive watched the series and think its intriguing, being Christian by faith, I dont agree with everything said but I guess thats what solving mysteries are all about. Speculation and fact. Have any Native American tribes laid claim to building it? What do they say? I think its more than a coincidence that all the ancient megalithic structures share astrology in common. People so primitive but possess the same knowledge.

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Leslie
7/19/2015 05:35:35 pm

this guy never discovers anything never goes in a cave can never even find an artifact why is he getting paid for nothing????? waste of tax dollars this clown comes to places all over the world and never once proves anything.w aste of money and time to hear his bull s#it

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Mike
11/17/2015 04:14:57 pm

Leslie why are u so but hurt... same with everyone who are up in arms over this series. It's entertainment folks. Even CNN only tells half truths to suit their needs. Get over it and do some of your own research.

Teyanu link
4/2/2020 01:44:03 pm

So who you directing this towards.

Ron
3/7/2016 02:34:40 pm

With back ground in Archeology from OU, I find the exploration into this site very strange. If this was prehistoric site created by a sedentary people, there should be many things that are strikingly missing from the surrounding area of this site. Some of the biggest things are everyday artifacts people would have needed, like pottery, other stoneware artifacts – grindstones, hearths, but most importantly is the lack of garbage middens. ( You have to put your waste materials somewhere, if it is broken pottery, grindstones, animal bones from dinner, the list can go one for what people would have tossed out but the fact it all has to go somewhere. ) With this material totally lacking from this site would give lead me to believe it is not as old as believe by some. The carbon 14 dating used also comes into question. This site has been used by many different people over the years for many different things and contamination of the samples could be very real. However, even if the dates are correct you can’t use them to date the stone structures around them. Just because you have a hearth somewhere does not mean that the people that lit the fire built the structures in the surrounding area. It just means someone was there and with the lack of other (everyday) artifacts and middens in conjunction with the hearth would mean that is area or site was not a permanent homestead even for a hunting and gathering people let alone a sedentary population. Most likely this is an early colonial homestead that was expanded upon over years and then forgotten about.

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Daniel Perez
7/1/2017 04:25:17 pm

I am not clear why you believe your lack of information and knowledge about a site and its purpose is supposed to be more scientific than Scott Wolter and the archaeologists who excavated the site? There were accurate carbon datings that took place. We know little about the site other than it was constructed, at least a first, long before European settlers came to America. It is fair to say you don't know, but to think you 'know' it is a hoax is less scientific than those who studied it. It is a logical fallacy.

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Judith Coburn
9/29/2017 11:51:34 am

Growing up about 10 miles from there, in Andover, Ma occasionally drive by the sign at the site and always asking my family about it, but no interest from my parents to investigate. That said, a few hundred yards from my childhood home was a place called Indian Ridge, which spanned a few miles in our town, in between our high school and my house width wise and probably 6 or 7 miles long having dated back to the Indians, we found old rounded concave rock formations as kids we assumed were used for fires. Back in the late fifties my older sister's friend's dad, a neighbor, used to walk the area extensively, and found arrow heads which he gave to his daughter and a couple to my sister. Years later, my sister had them carbon dated in Washington D.C. and they came back dated, one was 4,000 years old and the other was 6,000 years old. So, maybe the stone was for cleaning carcasses for food, who knows. But the timeline fits. There were people here that long ago.

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A.C.
8/14/2020 12:06:59 pm

Your a lazy researcher , your observations are so immature they show your ignorance, keep reading your childrens books and comforting yourself in ignorance ! dim wit !

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Dave Wales
2/18/2021 11:10:17 am

How was the giant rock put in place. We have them all over Wales. Celts exported granite axes from my local village around the globe and corrnish celts exported tin over 4000 years ago. if our ancestors had intricate knowledge of the stars 4000 years ago, surely they would have intricate knowledge of the planet they live on. Finding America would be no problem.

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The Iconoclast
1/15/2013 01:47:39 pm

Hi Jason et al,

...found your site using Google after "uncovering" Scott Wolter and America Unearthed while channel surfing and spending what was left of the episode barking with derision, making unflattering comparisons to Monster Quest, and generally annoying my family...

Thanks for the scholarly analysis. Among dozens of howlers the idea that a billion pounds of copper were mined around the Great Lakes without leaving a trace.

@Tara... Quite funny, thanks.

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Tara Jordan
1/15/2013 02:36:18 pm

"barking with derision, making unflattering comparisons to Monster Quest, and generally annoying my family...". Thank you & welcome to the club of endangered species. while most people are watching this insanity in awe,some amongst us have to rely on barf bags in reaction to this pseudo intellectual flatulence

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James
9/15/2015 04:06:55 pm

I didn't know there was any question as to the ancient copper mining in Michigan? Are you saying it didn't happen?

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Fletch
6/3/2016 10:55:16 pm

The Andaste ,Susquehannocks Yes they are real yes they are large theywere into mining copper look it up. and Michigan was on of the favorite spots. What bothers me is this looks like an Andaste site but it is a little far east.

Jon B
1/15/2013 02:12:17 pm

Jason,

I've lived in New England most of my life, and in southern NH for the last 14 years. And even as an avid student of ancient history, I have somehow not managed to visit "America's Stonehenge". Such is the draw of its magnificence.

I, too, found your blog after Googling for information on Scott Wolter (whom you won't find on Wikipedia, as he asked to have his page removed). I greatly appreciate the work that you're doing with America Unearthed and Ancient Aliens. While the level of absurdity and non-existent logic usually make the nonsense of these shows stand out, your blog is invaluable in exposing their outright lies.

And in case it helps, I've found Ancient Aliens is far more watchable if you pour yourself something strong and drink whenever they say "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".

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lin deahl
1/26/2013 04:52:20 pm

I love ancient aliens! It is so hilarious! I do like seeing all the cool old places they go, amazing what our ancestors did. I love it right up to the moment they say , The Aliens Did It" now every time something strange happens at home- say missing car keys- they kids say The Aliens did It.. then they laugh.

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MMB
7/12/2013 06:53:36 am

I love it too. It's a guilty pleasure. If they changed the show to just unsolved ancient sites it would probably be better. I love it when the explain the mystery of a site then say something like, "What if the knowledge came from another world, perhaps a more..............extraterrestrial influence". Do you think that guy gets tired of say extraterrestrial with such dramaticism show after show? Or is he perhaps, a more...........extraterrestrial narator? And if so why has come to earth to narrate this show?

lisa sickel
5/5/2017 02:29:37 pm

really? explain the pyrimids builders and purpose and all the documentedvideos of ufo s that cant be explained. just the tip of the ice berg get out of dream world there were people here thousands of years ago that had technology far advanced than we have today

Barb
1/27/2013 03:42:08 am

I can feel your fear through your writing, don't be scared.

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Fletch
6/3/2016 11:02:13 pm

LOL good one, I don't know, therefore Aliens. My wife keeps heavy objects away from me if I get the gut, up enough to watch them. Don't feel bad I live in the middle of the earthen mounds and didn't start hard research until 7 years ago.One important thing is don't believe anyone until you can give it a look yourself. Yes even the Harvard Professors.

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Wizard Garber link
1/17/2013 10:29:53 am

Glad to hear that this "America's Stonehenge" has been debunked. That leaves the one in Maryhill, Washington as the real "America's Stonehenge." Built out of concrete between 1918 and 1929 by Sam Hill, this is a full-size replica of the one in Britain and the solstice alignment was adjusted for the longitude difference by Professor William Wallace Campbell of the Lick Observatory, University of California.

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ssp
1/25/2013 04:07:16 pm

..and what about those solstice latitude lines that.Wolter says line up from Salem thru Stonehenge in England on to Beirut Lebanon ! Really ? I just looked at my nav map and have no idea what the heck kinda drugs he is on but there are no latitudes lines that run that way !

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pgt324
1/26/2013 08:16:58 am

I too just watched the show. I decided to try and debunk the easiest of the assertions made on the show which is does a great circle run from the center "America's Stonehenge through Stonehenge and then through Beirut, Lebanon.

I used the site http://alben.com/google/greatcirclemapper.php to create a great circle. One end was placed on the center of America's Stonehenge the other on the furthest west point of Beirut. The great circle actually went through Stonehenge a few yards south of the south-east station stone.

Although this part seems true Scott Wolter backs up his assertions with very little scientific fact. Rather he accepts assertions made by people at the site without any regard to scientifically dating items, etc.

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Ken Smith
2/15/2013 11:45:22 am

E?Did not Wolter and his associate also claim that the "straight line" passed thru particular stones at Stonehenge? If so, how could it also be Great Circle/straight line, etc.?

GG
1/26/2013 05:47:48 pm

Running down the details on the great circle route, it is hard to get incredibly precise on the location from either Google or Yahoo maps. However, the information is close and lines up with obvious breaks in the tree lines also seen from the show.

American Stonehenge coordinates: 42.84210, -71.20975
Stonehenge coordinates: 51.17887, -1.82624

Using this information, the initial bearing for this great circle in NH is 54.329° (http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/calculators#bearing)

The solar sunrise angle on the summer is 56.52 degrees. There is a slight variance between these two angles. While this challenges the kids extension of the line which was probably adjusted to make it fit (not enough detail and desire for proof makes a proof). However, sunset axis in England would align with sunrise in Salem.

Stonehenge was built sometime between 1600-3100BC. This change is roughly The earth's axis has changed significantly since this period, about 1.5-3 degrees. The difference above is about 2.2 degrees which occurred VERY roughly about 2000 BC. This plot referenced is from http://www.tccsa.tc/articles/precession.html. While an interesting discussion, I do not have the source of the graph.

This dating is also consistent with radiocarbon dating of Stonehenge's construction which is referenced as 1600-3100 BC
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_about_Stonehenge)
-----
The proposed Phoenecian ties to Stonehenge are questionable for various reasons. If Stonehenge is from this line, it would have to have been the Canaanites. The Canaanites are reported to be tied to the Druids who were in England during this time. There could easily have been a band of explorers that ended up there and eventually supported the tin trade.

Phoenecian 1200-540BC (various city states)
Caananites 3500-1200BC (in various forms)
(Reference: Wikipedia Phoenecians and Caananites)

While Stonehenge itself predated the Phoenecians, the Phoenecians had an active tin trade with England. During this period, Stonehenge likely evolved with additional construction and changes.

This was the late Bronze age and England was a source of tin. In order to cover these distances, the Phoenecian long distance trade ships were larger sailing ships. The Phoenecians were also known to be explorers and fully understood astronomy.

While a stretch, it is not unreasonable, that the Phoenecians:
- traded with England
- had advanced ships for the day
- potentially had a reverence for the site's astronomy
- exploring bands may have attempted the trip navigating celestially using the great circle route.

I don't see enough from the show to sell me. However, it is TV show targeting a mass audience for profit with limited time to tell the story. However, a little quick research indicates there is potential in the theory.

GG

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Jason Colavito link
1/27/2013 03:53:18 am

As I discuss in my review of the episode you're talking about, a Great Circle can be drawn through any two points on the earth's surface, so this "alignment" is special only in that it "hits" at the dubious solstice alignment (applicable to only one site) that's based on a rock that was moved into its current position in 1937. A Great Circle drawn from my bedroom window in Albany, NY to the Inca heartland in Peru passes directly through Camp X-Ray in Cuba. Does this mean that my house was "aligned" to Guantanamo Bay?

skeptic lol
3/6/2013 03:50:33 pm

its not lines of lattitude its solar alignments that follow the course of 2 of those stones line to europe but my guess is a little gps reading and a nav map would squash that

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Mary
1/27/2013 04:54:19 am

After forcing myself to watch the Mystery Hill (America's Stonehenge ) episode I literally was feeling embarrassed for Mr. Wolter. Having grown up about an hour away from there & having visited it many times as a student of prehistoric archaeology & cultural anthropology in the 1970's > 1990's I felt stunned watching that episode.
The standing stones re the calendar are recent as I showed Mr.Stone back in I believe 1980 or so. The sacrificial stone is an obvious common stone tool used by local farmers to produce potash, etc.
I do hope Mr. Wolter well. But he is not transcending any paradigms. Mere speculation.

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Jason Colavito link
1/27/2013 05:00:13 am

I agree entirely. Be sure to check out my review in my 1/26/13 blog entry, and you'll see I made nearly all the same points.

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Mike
2/5/2013 07:49:58 am

I use to live in Derry, NH which was 10 miles north of Salem, NH. I've been to America's Stonehenge and wasn't impressed. Salem, NH is pretty far inland and is not near any major waterways for the Phoenicians to want to access it. I thought that was really stretching the truth. Maybe thinking the site was used as a solar calendar by the native Americans but then again it is in the woods. If they had arrowheads or other artifacts. It was very crude looking and find it hard to believe it would be that sophiscated to have it go through precisely through one of the archways in Stonehenge. If you believe in Santa Claus, then you believe in this crap.

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Steve Balch
2/11/2013 01:39:46 pm

I'm watching this episode for the first time after my father suggested (I have a background in geophysics). What surprized me is the attempt by Wolter to add credibility to the claims without offering any criticism, just head-nodding generalizations. Not a fan of the forensic guynacologist [sic]. Thanks to your blog for countering this nonsense.

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Andrew
2/13/2013 06:19:44 pm

Well I Have A Degree In Hole Matrix, With A specialization In Holding Shovels At 45 Degree angles, And I Think Your All Retarded.

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Andrew
2/13/2013 06:24:51 pm

I Just Think Your Mad He Has A Show And You Don't. I Love how You Have A Donate Link At The Bottom Of Your Page. And Plus You Research Horror Fiction. Fuck You.

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Jason Colavito link
2/13/2013 10:41:11 pm

H2 sells commercials during America Unearthed (and I'm not selling anyone's products but mine), and Scott Wolter spends his days contemplating concrete. Are you suggesting that his conclusions are therefore false because he has a financial interest in succeeding and also has interests outside ancient history?

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Robert Roth
5/18/2013 07:42:44 am

Don't be mean spirited. You sound defensive. I thought the comments made by the English Scientist at Stone Hinge were polite and scientifically accurate. It's a TV Show. Get a grip. He has a very interesting show. We are all intitled to our opinion

Jason Colavito link
5/18/2013 07:45:31 am

We are all entitled to our own opinions but not to our own facts, as Daniel Patrick Moynihan observed.

Jax200
3/2/2013 05:14:10 am

I hope people untrained in the sciences at a professional level realize there is a whole discipline of good scientific practice that many of us have invested our lives in that is being mocked by these H2 shows. It isn't surprising why: follow the money, not the science. Don't make the error using entertainment to empower your knowledge.

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Bulldog jim
3/6/2013 04:00:30 pm

Didnt catch this show the first time around but did see it today and i have to say that i fear the scientific method is sorely lacking these days. As an amateur albeit formally educated historian, i have found that the best way to approach any investigation of any historic mystery is the scientific method. Having an agenda of any type or evidencing any bias in an investigation renders all conclusions garnered as a result of said investigation suspect at best. See "finding bigfoot" on animal planet for proof backing my theorum. Once objectivity is lost so is ones conclusion.

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skeptic lol
3/6/2013 04:04:34 pm

andrew what i love is the fact that although i am one o them ignert redneck hillbillys hyuh hyuh I dont publicly act like im only 5 years old and curse at someone elses opinions and logical conclusions

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Virginia
3/6/2013 04:27:27 pm

i think it is all interesting to see how people watch the sun come and go around the world. It is nice and reassuring to know that even after all these years the sun and earth continue to follow the pattern set up by, i believe, God, and it makes for a great place to live and grow and feel secure that we are continuing to have a safe spot to exist here on our beautiful earth.

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James
8/8/2013 01:19:29 pm

Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus & God & Jesus and even the Easter bunny.

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virginia
3/6/2013 04:29:35 pm

also, i am glad to see there were no human sacrifices, but it was a tool for making something useful for life.

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Logic
3/6/2013 07:45:10 pm

Isn't it just logic that if 2 separate settlements both built solar calendars that track the summer solstice sun in the northern hemisphere would naturally line up even without knowledge of each other???

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virginia
4/5/2013 07:36:44 am

Logic, that makes so much sense. Glad you said it!

stev
3/6/2013 07:44:39 pm

I hope he teams up with Ancient Aliens. Need some new entertainment.

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Puddintane
3/7/2013 03:40:08 am

Just stay right here. nothing more entertaining than watching the elitist of the established MSS community and their butt sniffing followers, show thier fear and squirm to deflect/debunk any new idea's they feel threatened by. They see authority as truth, when truth is the actual authority. Now that's entertainment.

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Jason Colavito link
3/7/2013 03:47:01 am

So what do you call believing what the TV tells you?

Puddintane
3/7/2013 06:04:52 am

I call it Stupidity. I also call believing only what the established in MSS tell you and only thinking "Inside The Box" & disallowing anything else, intellectual suicide.

Jason Colavito link
3/7/2013 06:06:23 am

So you don't see the need for evidence? Or to place evidence in context?

Puddintane
3/7/2013 06:30:32 am

Your words not mine. I can do the same.. ignoring evidence that doesn't fit inside the box and taking evidence out of context to align to a certain agenda...sux and holds us all back.

e's.g Troy, (which the established MSS told us for so long were only a myth) & the discovery in the Bay of Cambay to mention only 2, exposes just how wrong the elitists are and can be.. truth always wins out over the idiots in the MS. As I said earlier very entertaining to watch them squirm.

Jason Colavito link
3/7/2013 06:42:13 am

See my blog post about Schliemann and Troy; it was known from antiquity down to the 19th century that it was real. It was "alternative" historians who argued all myth was a fiction and a hoax, and that school of thought lasted only a few years. In fact, it's a case of the "establishment" having been right for 1800 years and working to correct misinformation generated by attempts to "overturn" conventional wisdom.

Puddintane
3/7/2013 09:59:54 am

I'd be happy to check it out. Got a link? I'm not going to wade through your entire blog/site to find it. Too time consuming and the agenda/spin here is nauseating after a while.. if exposed to too much all at once. I did look for it. What is it in the archives? When did you post it?

Not going to touch the Bay of Cambay discovery? or do you have some blogspin on that subject? If so I'd like to read it as well. (I don't mind a little spin occasionally but would rather it be on the subjects I'm most interested in, rather than full frontal exposure in myriad subjects all at once). Who knows? You may convince me. So far? no, but I may buy and read one of your books. Remember, I find the spin entertaining. Just not too much all at once.

Jason Colavito link
3/7/2013 10:05:57 am

Here's the URL: http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/2012/11/why-the-discovery-of-troy-is-a-bad-analogy-for-finding-atlantis.html

As for the Bay of Cambay, the evidence is too ambiguous to draw a firm conclusion, so until more research is done I don't really have anything to say about it.

SirBison
3/7/2013 05:42:00 am

Since almost nothing in the pre-history of the site can be definitively declared other than carbon dating.... and that there are questions still out as to the absolute origin of certain features, it is definitely close minded to assume that the European or Mediterranean cultures could not possibly be involved with the human origin of the site. Somewhat lesser developed cultures began Pacific expanses travel nearly 2000 year B.C. With the Irish and the Norse as definites and the Mediterraneans before them to England .... Why debunk what could be even if it was just the seed to the site built on by Natives and later-comers?

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Jason Colavito link
3/7/2013 05:54:14 am

Let me ask you the reverse: Why propose something for which no evidence exists?

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sirbison
3/7/2013 12:41:30 pm

Because its possible, interesting, and what's the harm in keeping the mind open to unanswered aspects of an enigma until evidence is discovered. From reading various sources, it seems that all are a part of this place... from modern rearrangement to colonial and aboriginal devices to, as yet, unknown origins

James
8/8/2013 01:31:10 pm

Jason there is irrefutable evidence in the Atlantic Provinces of Canada that the Vikings were in North America 500 years or more ahead of Columbus.

Jason Colavito link
8/8/2013 01:34:12 pm

What does the indisputable evidence of Viking presence in Canada have to do with Phoenicians in rural New Hampshire?

Steve Balch
3/7/2013 06:46:41 am

Wouldn't you classify "ancient Egyptian bull worshipers in Arkansas" under irony? Especially if they were fans of the show?

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Jeff
3/7/2013 09:29:18 am

Jason your arguments would hold more strength if you did not suggest that people could see the two tables are virtually identical. They are not virtually identical. They share similar characteristics. Your argument would be even stronger if the rock you are comparing to the "stonehenge sacrifice table" were actually a lye leeching stone. It is not, it is an apple pressing stone. Samples of lye leeching stones are easily found all over the internet. In general they are very small and have very shallow grooves. While I am never impressed by television shows that never find demonstrable resolution to the "mystery" they are "researching," I be able to more easily dismiss them if people gave more demonstrably provable arguments against them. The stone you are showing is an apple stone and the website you borrowed it from even says that it is an apple stone. You should have spent a little time looking at the website before you made this argument.

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Jason Colavito link
3/7/2013 09:49:58 am

Thank you for pointing out that I posted the wrong photo in this blog post. I have corrected the caption to reflect the correct information. I would, however, suggest you apply to me the same generosity of spirit you suggest I apply to alternative practitioners. Everyone makes mistakes. The difference between me and alternative speculators is that when I'm wrong I admit it and make corrections. When they are wrong they tell you that the world is conspiring against them.

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Lisa C
3/7/2013 01:02:27 pm

Although I have been intrigued by claims made by Scott Wolter in the past (and might be again in the future), I can't get behind him on this episode in any way. The rock collections that the guy supposedly built his house on looks like any stone foundation you find on any old house. At least, it did in the show. I haven't been to the sight, but might try to hit it up this summer to see for myself.
Also, as someone else mentioned above, I couldn't help but think the whole time...If two separate items (in the same hemisphere) were built to be lined up with the sun, wouldn't they also line up with each other? I have to admit that I am spatially challenged and have exceptionally poor depth perception, but it is making sense in my head at the moment. If I am wrong, please tell me nicely. I just worked 14 hours straight after getting 2.5 hours of sleep. = )

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Lisa C
3/7/2013 01:09:13 pm

Also, if you can't make it to England to see the original (although, I highly recommend it as it has a "feel" that can't be replicated) and you can't make it to WA state, check out Foamhenge. It was a fun detour. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foamhenge

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SirBison
3/7/2013 01:26:03 pm

Have photos of Foamhenge, but would much prefer the feel of the real thing and plan to in near future years.

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wayne link
3/7/2013 07:46:06 pm

in the program wolter also notes the Sun has move ,since the time Mystery Hill was built and then made a comment about Polaris being used as the north star ,which it has not always been ,my take is he takes what he wants to and avoids the truth! I was expecting a better series oh well

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Mike H
3/9/2013 01:40:33 am

Have we really degraded so much as a people an become sooooooooo lazy that we consider Wikipedia as a reliable source for information? My kids can't even use it as a reference for a report in 4th grade and some of the people here use it as though it has some sort of accurate value. Since when does collective opinion make an answer correct?

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Jude
3/9/2013 11:32:20 am

I think the writer of this blog is an idiot. He is an expert on this? and he has a Ph D is what? I think Scott Wolter is a bit more educated and experienced than someone who's 'aunt lives near there'. You are all ridiculous and are scared to face the truth that the History we've been taught is probably wrong or in the least, lacking information.
There is a reason Scott Wolter has a series on History2 and you do not. If you have a PhD to show me and have a way to go out there a debunk the scientific evidence he HAS shown, then I'll listen, but you are all just regular Joe's who think they know more than the experts simply because that's what you've been taught or that's what Aunt Millie told you. Wisen up, there is lot more to our history than Chris Columbus!

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Jason Colavito link
3/9/2013 11:46:57 am

That you are unwilling to click the "About Jason" tab to learn about me explains why you are so willing to believe what the TV tells you. It's a bit ironic that you demand a PhD from me but not from Wolter (who holds a BS in Geology to my BA in Anthropology) and suggest that I need to be more deferential to his authority while cheering on Wolter for challenging authorities with which you disagree.

You can find all the evidence for why Wolter is wrong in my weekly reviews of each episode of America Unearthed, point for point. Just click the "America Unearthed" link in my blog categories.

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Hmm
11/30/2013 05:09:50 pm

Sounds like jealousy then, if u feel the need to stalk the guy

WAYNE ELLIOTT link
3/12/2013 04:30:54 pm

The only question I have is why would the producers of such stupid programming splatter such nonsense on the screen when they have good, viable resources to do so much better? The morning after the program about America's Stonehenge aired my neighbor who knows I am a big history buff came knocking at my door and asked me, "Did you know Irish monks "discovered" North America?" I figured there was no need in trying to debate the issue so I just replied, "Why, er, uhm er, uhm, er no, I didn't know that!"

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PaulN. link
7/3/2014 08:47:53 pm

The answer is not that hard to surmise. Cheap reality style programs with some dubious scientific/archeological mumbo-jumbo equals big profits. Caveat emptor, P.T. Barnum would be so proud.

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Murf
3/18/2013 04:27:13 am

Truth or fantasy. Maybe someday we will know. One thing is certain. I was taught in high school about the battle between the ships USS Monitor and (yes, USS) Merrimac during our "CIVIL" War. I found back about 56-57 years ago, that those two named ships did not exist at the same time (FACT) The USS Monitor fought the CSS Virginia, a ship made from the remnants of the USS Merrimac. As time marches on technology does too and we are learning much we "knew" is inaccurate to flat out wrong. Another example is the Columbus discovered America. He died never knowing (or acknowledging) he had not reached the East Indies (and that ignorance is why we refer to Native American as Indians). Why? Because he chose the wrong calculation (neither were his own) for the circumference of the earth. to simply disregard the "Ancient Aliens" (some of which is far out) or "Undiscovered America" could prove to be folly (+ closed mindedness). OR, what is your explanation for the many things those shows address?? I'm listening. Murf

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Jason Colavito link
3/18/2013 04:55:49 am

The Monitor vs. Merrimac wasn't a conspiracy; the Union used the name Merrimac in order to stick one on the Confederacy by implying they couldn't build their own boats. The Union won, and the story stuck.

If you want to know my views on Ancient Aliens and America Unearthed, please click the relevant titles on the right hand list of blog categories and read my weekly reviews of both.

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Roger Sherman link
3/21/2013 12:54:15 pm

There are a ring of standing stones in Heath Mass that he visited from what I've read. I have been to many of the sites in New England.
I've seen the Olgam inscriptions on many stones (Mantels above the chamber doors.) Indians did not use stones and did not copy the celtic stoneworks!
America unearth is a great show in my opinion.
I was was a member of Neara at one time. You have to be blind not to see this hidden history.

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robert miller
3/24/2013 01:37:23 am

In West Virginia and eastern Kentucky you will find the proof of europeans being in America long before Columbus

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Hayneedle
3/28/2013 03:27:23 pm

The producers select subjects for shows based on potential viewer ratings (market potential) which generates sponsor/advertiser investment (income). Accuracy of information is NOT the objective. Spinning the subject for maximum viewer appeal is the objective. P. T. Barnum would be amazed!

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Sue Bartlett
3/28/2013 05:24:09 pm

I have sometimes seen bits and pieces of America Unearthed and Ancient Aliens but usually end up changing channels as soon as possible. Have none of these so called researchers ever heard of "proof". They go from saying, "I believe" to "obviously" to "what I believe must be true because what else could it be?" The History Channel should change its name from History to Specutlation.

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W. Blake Heitzman link
3/29/2013 05:45:55 am

I like your analysis. Mine is more forgiving and comes from the perspective of a layman with scientific background, but with no expertise (usually) regarding the topic being presented. I try to use the simple logic that any layman can use to decide whether Scott has a case. After all, it's just entertainment, and these offbeat theories are fun.

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Sue Bartlett
3/29/2013 09:28:56 pm

I am also a layman with some scientific background in biology, botany and geology. I also worked for a police department for many years. I learned in both college and work that first you collect all known facts and then form a hypothesis. You don't form your hypothesis first and then twist some known facts to make them fit the hypothesis and ignore all facts that can't be made to conform with your beliefs. To do so is poor detective work in every sense of the word. Although I do enjoy yelling at the television set; unfortunately it never responds!

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feefers
4/5/2013 06:34:18 am

thank heavens for someone aside from my hubby & i that totally hate this dumb tv show. whats more worrying is that modern americans will watch this & actually believe the tripe thats being peddled. I am a brit & i find this attenpt to create histories that dont exist insulting. we quit watching the show after 2 episodes (gave benefit of doubt after 1st) but watched this episode because it was stonehenge & i have been there. a lot. even got special access to inside the stones. loved the way the brit expert shut him up. this seris is embarrassing. the kid in this episode was hilarious unintentionaly. hated that at end of episode they asked for people to contact them with places to research.
the episode that stopped me watching any more was when they tried to tie up "rune stone" with a place in UK that belongs to my parents neighbours & is now actually a pub! what a joke

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Tabitha
4/18/2013 01:19:48 pm

I have been watching a lot of these different show on H2. I found this article after watching this particular episode. I have no scientific background so I don't know if what is said on these show is true or not. I research to see what articles have been written. But, I also don't believe all the articles I read either. I am an average intelligent person but learned long time ago that what I learned about history in school was not necessarily true. But, what I watch on TV or read in articles is not necessarily true either. But, it is entertaining and keeps me occupied. I enjoy these shows just because it gives my mind something to do. But, I don't like the show about ancient aliens. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Not saying they aren't true, just that I'm not convinced and probably never will be.

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yousef
5/18/2013 09:15:15 am

Congratulations, you are so active.I think that the world people are dieing because they had lost their power of realizing between right and wrong. It is so worst than that i can imagine. According to Islamic thought, the evil is trying to gather all of his force, jinns or humans, for the last battle between right and wrong. good luck.

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online casinos link
6/11/2013 09:02:21 am

You have done an incredible job. I was impressed with the results of your research. Thanks for the interesting description. I recently read The Dunwich Horror by Lovecraft.

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Rob G.
7/12/2013 08:12:15 am

Ahhhhhh...... being in my 60's, I love to watch new historical presentation of things I never heard of, before. That does not make
me believe, but it does inspire me to think of things I never knew. Now, boys and girls.......... why are you fighting over making a decision of what to believe, right or left? Did Scott Wolter inspire you to learn something historically new, and think? Did this inspire Jason to start this blog? hehehe.......... Remember what Bobby Kennedy once thought. "Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not."

Which side do you want to think? :-)

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Jason Colavito link
7/12/2013 08:17:40 am

No, it didn't. I've been blogging since 2001 on various platforms, and this current blog has been running since 2010, years before Scott Wolter had a TV show.

I will agree with you that Scott Wolter dreams of things that never were, but he then tries to tell you that they really happened.

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James
8/8/2013 01:48:42 pm

Rob I'm with you on this one. I watch both Aliens and America Unearthed. I must be going deaf in my old age as I don't recall the commentators saying this is the real truth all other theories are wrong. They just say " I beleive a lot" Their just throwing it out there! One has to use their own brain to sort the wheat from the chaff. It gets you thinking and I agree that's a good thing all way around

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Jason Colavito link
8/8/2013 02:07:20 pm

So, then what's the problem with me using my brain to tell you these shows are all chaff?

Dan Britten
7/16/2013 01:09:16 pm

Another fact not mentioned is that about a third of people who grow up near tourist attractions tend to resent them and will try to undermine their reputation. I notice no one has mentioned the Carbon 14 testing that has been done on charcoal found at the site. A date of 4,000 years was extracted, not on the rocks per se, but on a charcoal pit at the site. Then we have the fact that New England has numerous sites like this one. A few were altered. That makes none of them fake or real. Remember, the pro side has a carbon 14 test in their arsenal. That's evidence if not out and out proof. The con side must recognize that documents of any kind are trumped by scientific evidence, even if such evidence is not ultimate proof.

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Jason Colavito link
7/16/2013 01:15:36 pm

No one denies that there was quite likely a Native American occupation of the hilltop c. 2000 BCE (hence the charcoal); this occupation, though, is not directly associated with the rocks, which have a context much, much more recent.

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Dan Britten
9/8/2017 10:03:24 am

Yet again, you gloss right past the carbon 14 testing. Kind of a giveaway for anyone looking to debunk a would-be debunker. Consider yourself debunked. Stay in the shallow end. This science stuff just seems to give you the willies.

Jarett
7/20/2013 05:31:06 pm

Im just dying to put in my two bits here.First off id like to say i have no formal education in archaeology,geology or anthropology.But i would like to say i have been an amateur enthusiast/researcher for 30 years it is my passion,i have also grown up in an area with a heavy concentration of Native burials/village sites and artifacts,and have been on multiple trips to Wales,Ireland and England to see first hand standing stones and burial mounds as well as coming from a rural farming area.That being said,Native Americans(North American) had little use for stone structures because of their(most not all) semi-nomadic way of life,carvings? absolutely,these structures in the US have a striking resemblance to neolithic sites in Europe,i have also never heard from relatives or the old farmers any stories EVER from the past or present of North American farmers using stones(At least in the west) for anything other than simple low dividers for cattle or fields,houses and perhaps an underground basement storage area,never stand alone separate from a building(im sure there are an exception or two out there).So my questions i have are: 1.If not Native Americans than who build these structures,2.It is fact the Solutreans reached North America(Clovis points) from Southern France around 16k years ago,so Europeans forgot suddenly how to build boats to navigate the North Atlantic?,3.Did the stories of these being restored mention in detail how it was done? And with whos help,surely one man did not do it alone? was he expert enough in neolithic megaliths to accurately reproduce them convincingly?4. People believed that Mesopotamia or Egypt started it all until Goebekli Tepe was discovered for which there was zero indication it existed let alone at such and early date,if we missed that and even believed it was impossible what else can or are missing? Just some thoughts for anyone reading this to consider.Thank You,J

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Daniel Perez
9/10/2017 11:25:16 pm

I believe all thoughtful people will admit we don't ultimately know based on the evidence listed here and what we know from excavations. There is a lot of evidence that something significant took place here, and given that there are other sites there is some cross-confirmation. So I think all the postings that list what we do and do not know are balanced. Mathew Howes makes the good point about the weight of the central "sacrificial" table being out-of-line with a press. I also think the speculation about "sacrifice" is all sensational and from Indiana Jones movies. Sacrifices back then could be incense and other sacraments.

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phil
7/29/2013 09:14:45 am

well I think its strange that you can draw a line from salem to stonehenge and then continue in a straight line and reach lebanon. I ve tried this on a globe and end up above the arctic circle. if you are going roughly northeast from new hampshire how do you suddenly mysteriously end up in the mediterranean which is well south of the line pointing to stonehenge. I guess it must be the curvature of the earh taken to extremes??

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Diane
8/4/2013 09:34:06 pm

Ya, the show is dumb but isn't there room for some kind of middle ground? Maybe it is a lye-stone and perhaps Celts or Phoenicians were there at one time. Isn't it a proven fact that Vikings settled in Canada for a time? People were all over the place with their boats and some probably ventured inland. Also, what 1930's farmer had time to rearrange rocks for fun?

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Jason Colavito link
8/4/2013 11:38:21 pm

The middle ground between the truth and a lie is still a lie. Goodwin wasn't a "1930s farmer" but a dedicated alternative history believer who spent two decades working at the site to try to prove it was actually ancient Irish. He commissioned archaeological excavations ("what 1930s farmer had the money for that?!"), rejected their findings that the site was colonial, and proceeded to rebuilt it to match his "Wandering Irish" theory.

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tom
9/11/2013 12:43:41 am

standing stones,? its sad , when a country has no history apart from the native indian culture that it starts making up things , planting stone circles and trying to turn colonial builing debris into something its not . .

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george mitchell link
10/12/2013 06:12:43 pm

A Dr.told the medical community that he thought a bacteria caused ulcers. The response was CRITICISM !! Later the Dr. PROVED his theory was correct after injecting the bacteria into himself then curing himself .Turns out the Dr.was correct .This is what tuns me off about the scientific community they are unable to accept the possibility of any NEW theories .When Pasteur suggested germs might be living on unwashed hands he too was ridiculed .See my point ? T

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jude
10/31/2013 12:57:11 am

I lived on the property bordering Mystery Hill (as I will always call it).it is still used by "wiccans" who celebrate the solctises there. Wether it is real or not I have no idea. I Used to walk through the woods there and never saw evidence of any modern day structures. But it is in the only part of Salem where one can actually find farms anymore so I guess its a matter of opinion huh?

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Mark Sosebee
11/30/2013 02:17:55 pm

Another attack on Scott. Looks like someone needs to find something to do. Look, bottom line is every day we are walking across history and making history. Cant believe that people are still stuck in the 1600's having a 3 day feast, thinking this is when this country started. I'm pretty sure someone walked these same fields in the 800BC and 500AD. So why are some of these stories so hard to believe. A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste. Open it up to all possibilities. Americans took over this land from the Indians and proclaimed it their own. They themselves have/had more history here than we do. Open up to possibilities you might learn a thing or two.

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Mark Sosebee
11/30/2013 02:21:13 pm

And besides, this is much more interesting than watching Honey Boo-Boo on what channel? THE LEARNING CHANNEL...WTH What exactly are we suppose to be learning, how to stuff a doughnut then how to stuff it down your throat all at once.

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shy
11/30/2013 05:19:37 pm

Love how you took your argument almost exclusively and in order as the description from the wiki page.

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Jason Colavito link
11/30/2013 10:29:12 pm

You mean chronological order? Well, yes, most accounts of history do occur in chronological order.

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Al
12/6/2013 08:26:01 am

Jason, Why are you still breathing our air? There could be a million other examples of historic events that have not been discovered yet because people like you refuse to believe that your knowledge is faulty. Move out of your Moms basement and get a life. Maybe auntie will let you stay there. No need to reply. I will never come back to this site.

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Steve
12/10/2013 03:12:54 am

If you are looking for proof of earlier settlements or peoples living in America before Columbus check out this website.
http://www.helium.com/items/1814848-nevadas-mysterious-cave-of-the-red-haired-giants

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Sawn McCormick
1/3/2014 02:09:06 pm

Oh man, why is it so easy to get mad about trivia? Well, 'cuz sometimes we might be at a different stage in individual understanding. I happened to stumble on cold hard facts, like the friggin' rocks at America's Stonehenge, before some of you. So I have no reason to be mean, but believe me I have a raging anger problem, been to anger management. The "sacrificial table" aside, this is a Native American site. Now my residency in Salem, NH does not make me an expert on the structures, but you better damn well believe it has been an obsession since I was a small kid. My mother brought me many times, and I still visit it periodically. The entire site has multiple ceremony systems, or what I like to call "spirit traps". I just learned this over the last week, so I have to share to skeptics. Don't believe it if you don't want to, it doesn't bother me. Split rocks, natural and hand split with tools, are SPIRIT PORTALS. Rock walls are SPIRIT CHANNELS to guide a particular spirit to a cairn and/or split rock, which become's an EXIT PORTAL. It's important to Native American's beliefs that the Underworld spirits are able to return to the Underworld. Stonechambers, which are not limited to Mystery Hill, are artificial caves for Underworld ceremonies. These Native American apparatuses are usually integrated inside or in the vicinity of the chambers. I was shown a chamber 2 weeks ago in Atkinson, NH, a 10 minute drive from Mystery Hill, that has a stonewall associated with it. This chamber is not yet listed among the 51 chambers known in New Hampshire. I chase stone structures all the time. I am obssessed with archaeology. I am trying to fit in a Master's Degree in the field at this moment. Now the sacrificial table? It's possible the Natives sacrificed. There was an account of a tribal Medicine Man that cremated a white dog as an offering. White being a special color out of the 3 main one's, white, black, red. Hey, just like the original colors of the 3 main Egyptian pyramids. Fact. There's single white quartz stones in various symbolic uses in many New England stone structures. Anyway,colonialists didn't build the site, only moved in, and used parts for a house foundation. I doubt the table was for lye, but look into whether the table is in the location it was found. The allignment of England and my hometown weirds me out if true. The Baal stone needs to be researched more. There was a world wide grid in very ancient times, so the allignment doesn't surprise me. It's the sequence of who influenced who 4,000 ago or longer. My theory is maybe there was a race seperate race that marked the Salem location, Native's were like let's do our thing right here, and now we have complete and total confusion. There's some things that still confuse, believe me.

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Shawn McCormick
1/3/2014 02:44:47 pm

After what I just posted, it might be egotistical to think the Atkinson, NH stone chamber I reported isn't documented, I just have to find pieces of the official list from multiple sources since some site locations are witheld from the public in order to conserve them. But I can't find it yet, and it's located in an unforgiven ravine. It also faces East, like many chambers' allignments. That indicates a sun cycle marker. Some, like the Beehive Hut in Danville, NH located near Salem, NH as well has one that faces West. Probably for lunar ceremonies. At the Danville site, there is also a Spirit portal, a cairn, and a very old rock wall that runs North and South, technically towards the Atkinson site. I've followed it via google maps, and it looks like someone sand ran sand along the ground making it look really old compared to recent rock walls in people's yards of the houses that were constructed on the path of the stone chamber's rock wall. Basically you can see the aging of old rock walls compared to the more uniform and modern rock walls. Clues can be found y'all, you just have to be in so deep as I am I suppose. I've gone through a series of beliefs, well, open mindness on some leads. I'm almost sorry to say, this blog has misinterpretations. Just make sure you don't enter a manufactured reality, if it matters much to anyone that is skeptical of ancient origins of good 'ol New England stone structures. Native Americans were apt to stone work, I have an old burial statue that has beautiful artistic rendition of the deceased's likeness that was discovered in Andover, MA in the 60's by my mother at age 4 on the edge of her family's yard! Phillip's Academy took over the excavation since it was town property. There was also a woman and 2 babies nearby. Seems like incest was involved at first thought. Who knows? The statue was on a stone pile that covered the remains of the Native American's body, just like in Stephen King's Pet Cememtery! It was all where the military contractors Raytheon was built. A large stone structure was destroyed during Raytheon's construction. They bought my family's property as well, and it is basically a disgusting, rusted up old dump! WTF!!!

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Mulcogi Seng
1/10/2014 11:46:39 am

I first visited Mystery Hill soon after it opened. It intrigued me then and still does to this day. I recently revisited and discovered the "America's Stonehenge" change. It is such a shame that the site was not preserved as found. Of course, there was no archaeology in those days. So the site was farmed for stone, restructured, and no one knows for sure what it should be like. Yet somehow, I think that this is indeed a real site, with a real purpose, one that may never be known by the doubters and believers in the fallacy of Columbus. As they say at the site, at the proposed time of construction, about 4000yrs ago, there were no trees and the site lines to the geographical features that mark the directions are accurate.

As for the tv show, its a total farce and the clown pretending to be an investigator/scientist is a fraud. He asks all the wrong questions on every show that I have seen. He makes a mockery of scientific method and intelligent investigation. Such wonderful sites and possibilities ruined by greed and arrogance.

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Antje Kipp
7/3/2014 02:34:16 pm

It's a huge shame that idiotic shows throw sites like this under the Historical Bus by using such poor methodology and inferring a connection through association with aliens, for heaven's sake. Pun not intended but boy, worked, huh? Aliens. Puleeze- after that were supposed to buy another word from the creator?

But. we literally live right on top of something a little bit like this. Not as extensive, the Native American relics are extremely scattered and stone walls so hidden under layers of fern and vines you can't really see them.We've never been able to figure out what the stone-lined holes, or pits are about- but there's not a farm within several miles plus we're in a very small valley- totally untillable with little sun. According to the population map, the only house in here was a structure connected with a mill run by the creek, which interestingly used one of the fallen-over stones as something to attach the water wheel to.That one is massive- as big as one of the smaller rocks in the UK location. There are other rocks, same shape, various sizes, around the little valley.One is standing above a series of burial mounds, another is in the center of a perfect ring of maybe 4 foot stone walls.

Perhaps a better presentation would be ' Seperating Fact From Fiction '? A gullible public should CERTAINLY know how much this site has been played around with- our standing stones look nothing like those for instance. They're in the earth, not propped up variously- it's extremely obvious they've been there for more time than we can comprehend. Not to toss the slippery little baby out with the bath on one point however. I'm pretty good with early American farms and it's incomprehensible, the idea of one famrer or several trapsing miles for the use of root cellers plus you just, plain did not leave food out in the wilds of anywhere. With the wildlife population being what it was ( read: bear, raccoon, fox- cougar, if there were cured meats ). Tough enough keeping it safe in root cellars and spring houses near one's barn and property- it's unlikely they'd have carted things to store to a location so FAR away.

We have never once mentioned our property and it's wealth- this is a weirdly non-populated area. We're only the 3rd owners of the only house to ever exist at this spot. There's only one other full time resident out here, too. Oh, we get the usual wicca, believing one of the standing stones is a native American grave.... . What one has to do with the other I do NOT know- but it seems to be the only thing they've noticed.

My point is, be great to debunk the nonsense, create something factual while keeping the site historically important- all our ancient sites are. I'm guessing it would not be tough for a knock down, drag out expert or team of them to ascertain where the real site ended and the ' renovation' began- or get close. That would as interesting as any story which could be invented anyway.

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roger link
9/3/2014 04:39:40 pm

Any of you guinness ketch the rock carving of a women that looks like a fire pit? Well I stood in front of that and it looked to me like a women who gave birth to someone very special in the united states. I thought that if you line up the triangle with the notches in the stone and the top of her head ,possibly center it with the Stonehenge in the U.K. you might get the birthplace of an American born messiah? just a thought seeing how the was a man fought by romans in Massachusetts ? who was performing miracles ,wasn't allowed to marry and wy do I think his birth place is in Lowell mass.?

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Ronnie
9/13/2014 07:26:12 pm

http://home.hiwaay.net/~jalison/afterword.html

You may be right on some poinpts but the essence of the story is not fake

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mark
11/1/2014 05:04:54 pm

i like H2, I don't mind the conjecture and far reaching thoughts postulated and posits made by Ancient Aliens show, and Unearthing American History.
Clearly, as we have written the history, as we know it thus far, not all is known, and discovery is being made to add to and correct what is.
Enjoy the shows for what they are, perhaps more archeological discoveries will unfold in the near future to help provide more information to the history we have at present, and peel back the layers of the past that are so intriguing.

Cheers.

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Frank
11/7/2014 01:31:21 pm

I'm not the least bothered by the conclusions as I cannot get that far because the real problem - lack of scientific method coupled with biased research and reveal methods - entirely deny the show any credibility. I'm bothered by it mostly because there are a great many fascinating things touched upon that deserve exposure and would be wonderful to see in documentary. Instead we get the same kind of science used by all run of the mill cons and it lends a stink of 'fake' even to many things that may quite well be true. Sad to The History Channel sink to these levels. Sad for our children at least.

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A Geologist
11/10/2014 12:41:43 am

The photo you used in your comparison to the "America's Stonehenge" sacrificial table is clearly a recently made version. The table at America's Stonehenge displays patterns of weathering that cannot be created by man and thus only occur due to many many periods of freezing and thawing and other processes of erosion. Your reference (link when you click on the photo) even states that it is likely made by Native Americans and not by farmers for making apple sauce. And for that reason, I disagree with your hypothesis. Go get a local archeologist to date the table and then criticize us poor geologists. And before you dismiss the boy's link to Stonehenge and Beirut, you might want to extend that straight line westward and see where it leads. Hint - it's Mexico City. Hmm...

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mike link
12/21/2014 08:42:20 am

from the onset false premise check the latitudes of salem nh stone henge england and beruit lebanon draw a straight line thru them cant do it

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Pam
10/18/2015 01:28:55 pm

To Mike, about the straight line..the earth curves. Get a globe and grab a string. It is a straight line when it curves. It shows that on this series about the find in N Hampshire. I am not an expert, and I could be wrong, but am only stating what is show on the series.

Reply
mike
12/21/2014 08:49:10 am

a show based on a google earth anomaly dumbing down america one viewer at a time

Reply
Frank
12/21/2014 09:50:04 am

Like the state of our current education system (leaving our lads and lasses to fill in the missing spelling and grammar with texting shorthand - some even talk out loud like that *forehead-slap*) isn't dumbing them down enough... Also - I love how he positively ids transatlantic rock sources with nothing but purity of an ore (those dumb rascally ancients couldn't possibly have figured things like getting a lot of the impurities out of copper - much easier to mining it halfway across the globe by sea... Sha ...

Reply
Matthew Howes link
1/12/2015 02:20:15 pm

Hi, Jason. I stumbled onto this page when looking for Internet links to "America's Stonehenge". I believe you have very reasonable points and are very down-to-earth, which is relieving to see.
However, it is possible that the structures at America's Stonehenge are in fact pre-colonial. First of all, the "Table dolmen". (I will refuse to call it a Sacrificial Table- from a Native perspective, if this is the case, Ceremonial Platform is a better choice of words.) This platform table is 9,000 pounds, generally a few thousand pounds heavier than most cider presses or lye stones. Also if it is in an original position than it is in a sloping confined space, not conducive for manual labor for a cider press or lye stone, which were usually worked on in flat open spaces. Also, this platform table's grooves were pecked out using stone tools, indicating it's possible antiquity. The definite lye stone you compare the picture with on this post was grooved out using metal tools and colonial technology and there is a difference with how the grooves appear. Also, the Pattee family were shoe-makers.
All over the United States we have sites like Cahokia, and mound-building cultures. I believe that saying that New England (NorthEast, rather) Native people never constructed anything significant is giving them the short end of the stick. The world's greatest and most tragic genocide happened here on American soil, and indigenous NorthEast people's especially were eradicated, even before Plymouth Colony in 1620 ever set up camp (the little ice age of the middle ages certainly would have had an impact, fishermen/traders on the shores in the 1500's, etc.).
Back to America's Stonehenge. In the 19th century one of the Pattee descendant's let quarrymen load up stones to be carted away from this site continuosly for a few years. This is responsible for the quarry marks seen at the site today, and perhaps even a 40% destruction of the original site. Carbon dating of plant matter in one of the stone walls predates any european/euro-american occupation at the site, indicating some of the walls there today are original and in fact pre-colonial.
Also, the alignments of standing stones along the outer parameter of the site are legit. They were where they are today when Mr. Goodwin bought the property. It wasn't until later in the 1970's and 80's that they started (the Stone family and associates) using archeo-astronomy and were finding alignments with these "stone monoliths". (standing stones.) Some of these alignments, such as the standing stone with the Pole Star alignment, could only have occured thousands of years ago and do not work today. There is no way that Mr. Goodwin in the 1930's and 40's could have known about this.
Also, many ancient sites throughout the world are found in a ruinous state, such as Machu Piichu in Peru, which was "discovered" (by westerners- some of the peruvians actually already knew it was always there) in 1911 was in a ruinous state- what we see today of Machu Piichu has been touched by archaelogists and people working under them- the same is true of the ancient Mayan and Aztec sites that tourists visit today. What Mr. Goodwin did at "America's Stonehenge" is not unlike any of these other examples- its called restoration. Despite fanciful ideas about the New Hampshire site, thank goodness people have been taking care of the site, or else a very important legacy of American pre-history may already have been lost to us- it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where a structure has collapsed and to restore it to a more or less state of what it origianlly was like. The largest stone that was moved by man at this site is a 50 ton slab in the "Oracle Chamber." No way were colonists, 19th century people, or William Goodwin responsible for this- this reaks of antiquity.
For decades New England archaeologists have been closed-minded about New England pre-history. This all changed a few years ago with the Turner's Falls site that was discovered when they were going to expand an airport. The Narrangansett and Wampanoag Nations, as well as other groups, are starting to take an interest and are publically acknowledging their ancestor's stone constructions littered throughout the northeastern landscape, because it's speak up now or watch it all be destroyed.
I did an 8 part series posting about "America's Stonehenge" on my blog (January 2015) and I invite you, Jason, and anyone else to have a look at www.nativenewenglandstones.blogspot.com "Ceremonial StoneWorks of the NorthEast." There are also many other elaborate stone constructions, including other chambers and rarer stone shrines (I discovered a "one-of-a-kind" so far) along the water-ways and old Native foot paths of the NorthEast. The larger picture is just starting to be revealed to us. Also look up (google) the "Red Paint People" aka Maritime Archaic, ancestors of NorthEast Native people, who were known to build in stone.
Ha

Reply
Matthew Howes link
1/12/2015 02:30:53 pm

"Ha" at the end was going to be "Have a nice day" but was cut off from too many words (word limit) in the post. So, have a nice day-

Matt (Bluewater) Howes

Reply
James
4/9/2015 11:53:50 pm

There are some fantastic and unexplanable sites in the US, i dont think mystery hill is one of them, too many people have interfered with the site, So we cant say what it means the apple press is an apple press seen simlar stones from the sw of england where cider making is very popular.

Reply
the Quaker
8/5/2015 07:16:44 am

There's so many possibilities, Scott is only trying to point that out. It's good you disagree and research for yourselves.

Reply
Pam
10/18/2015 01:24:17 pm

I just have a question as to why this author seems to think his idea is right and the new discovery is wrong. I have seem many of the mounds in Ohio and other states rock formations and you can't tell me they are recent and this story about the connections between New Hampshire and England then Lebanon is wrong. Too much evidence. I really think you are just trying to debunk something to get attention. Mission accomplished.

Reply
john duke
11/1/2015 10:24:54 am

I am an objective researcher.I can in fact prove that christianiy went pagan in second century. The three name chant and dip was never spoken of by Jesus. The World Church used semantics to put people under their thumb. Scott has stated that he knows something is true and will prove it. No true researcher would ever do that.

Reply
Karen
12/21/2015 09:43:19 am

If anyone professes to know the absolute truth on ANY topic, they/he/she are/is a FOOL.
How far do you have to investigate into ANY matter to realize cover-ups, deception and flat out lies.
If you have the time, energy and intelligence to decipher through all of that obscurity....then I would suggest that YOU may not be of this world...

Reply
Jason
1/24/2016 02:09:29 pm

I'm interested as to why you have chosen to defend science and archeology that have been caught in more lies than could be counted and your opinion seems to be to distrust any other possible truth that's offered?

Reply
Fletcher Wilson
6/3/2016 11:12:18 pm

Did not a Dr. Gary Hume and A Dr.David Stewart-Smith give this credit as being a Native American complex as Dr.Stewart smith is a stone cutter master and mason knew that the stones were not worked by metal tool.My grandfather was a master stone cutter and could tell the difference between the ones being worked with stone and metal. and as far as the table goes The Native Americans did hunt you know and putting your meat on a table to cut up is allot better than on the ground. especially if it is a big Mastidon

Reply
Mazie
7/10/2016 01:19:21 pm

First, Tara, I have to take exception to terming this guy a "forensic gynecologist." A "forensic proctologist" would be the correct term.

I am not a scientist and I'm open to considering all sorts of theories, but when I hear someone claiming to be a scientist say things like "this site feels really old." and "This site is drenched in age." it raises I red flag for me and makes me want to see his credentials.

I, too, have visited this site. It was featured on Leonard Nimoy's "In Search Of" back in the '70's. I really wanted it to be real, but the waist-high "standing stones" and cheesy books in the cheesy gift store, along with the fact that it was all privately-owned, just screamed "FAKE" to me.

And, as a TV viewer watching for entertainment, I get really miffed when a show starts out saying it will "uncover the truth" but never goes any further than speculation and self-serving drivel. Sorry. Just had to get that off my chest.

Reply
S Frisbey
10/25/2016 05:14:43 am

Interesting. Based on your critique, I'm glad now I didn't stop there this weekend while visiting in New England.
Everyone has a critic. Mine could be my barber, my bartender or my work team. In my opinion, your comments, whether justified or not (I'm not the judge) border on slander & could be liableous. What I have come to appreciate about a fellow PhD is that he makes you think about the what if possibilities. Frankly, it sounds like you got a real hard on for him, secretly wishing it was you & not him achieving the notarity & success. If you're right, you're right. Prove it.

Reply
Randy link
9/4/2017 11:48:37 pm

New comment for an old story.

So cleverman: Why would any reasonable person carry apples or lye to the top of the hill to do this? better gravitational flow

Reply
Mulcogi Seng
4/3/2019 12:14:13 am

I first visited Mystery Hill in the late 1950s, shortly after it first opened as part of a school field trip. they didn't know much then and they didn't know much when I returned a few years ago. But that doesn't mean that there aren't some interesting features of this site. There are indeed long standing stones that mark features on the horizon that correspond with astronomical feature of 4500 years ago aprox the time of Stonehenge in England. There are interesting carvings of the stones that could easily be taken for Ogham and/or Phoenician. There is no doubt that the site has been greatly disturbed over the centuries as the Euro invaders took the land and made it theirs. There is no way to ascertain the validity of the claims made at this time. But just because a fake show on tv covers the story doesn't mean the site is a fake. This guy and Josh Gates are laughing all the way to the bank as they cash their checks for pseudo science. Shame on the channels that broadcast this stuff. .

Reply
Joseph A Lessard
4/11/2020 11:38:24 am

Lot of disinformation here. The site was known in colonial times. Up into the 1800s people were taking stones from there and re-purposing them for their building projects.

Reply
Julie
10/18/2020 04:41:19 pm

Missing 2 big things that are not even addressed in your post -

1) That it lines up precisely with England's stonehenge

2) The astrological precision.

Highly doubt 18-19th century farmers would have been that interested in astronomy nor calculated the precision of lining it up georgraphically with England's Stonehenge.

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