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The Endless Repetition of a Fake Source for Pyramid Claims

7/14/2013

47 Comments

 
Today’s discussion comes to us thanks to the investigative sleuthing of Le site d’Irna, where we find an interesting inquiry into the sources of a French-language documentary about the pyramids of Egypt. As you can see for yourself at the link, Jacques Grimault’s documentary film La Révélation des Pyramides (2010) is filled with faulty sources and pseudo-scholarly nonsense in service of a bizarre claim that “pyramid” sites at Easter Island, South America, Egypt, and China all align along two lines intersecting at Giza—as, indeed, Great Circle mathematics shows that one can make any two points “align” using such methods. According to the film, the only explanation for advanced pyramid technology is a lost Atlantis-like civilization.

We’ve heard that one before.

What I found interesting enough to report here is the misuse of an ancient source in service of this modern myth. According to the film, as translated at the above link, “Twenty centuries before [the Abbé Moreux], Agatharcides of Cnidus had stated that the Great Pyramid was a geographical image of the Earth.”

That ought to be easy to check, right?

But not so!

We start in modern times. In 2007, the ex-neo-Nazi diffusionist Frank Joseph wrote in Opening the Ark of the Covenant that “the Greek geographer and historian Agatharchides of Cnidus concluded that it [the Great Pyramid] ‘incorporated fractions of geographical degrees.’” Thus, it was a model of the earth itself. Robert Schoch agreed in 2005’s Pyramid Quest. Earlier, in 1995, John Anthony West (who, you will recall, believes I am evil and attempting to destroy him) wrote in The Traveler’s Key to Ancient Egypt that “all allusions to the pyramid as an earth model could be traced back to the peripatetic Greek philosopher Agatharcides of Cnidus.” Similar material appears in Colin Wilson’s and Rand Flem-Ath’s The Atlantis Blueprint (2000), repeating nearly verbatim material in Wilson’s From Atlantis to the Sphinx (1996) and Wilson’s and Damon Knight’s Mammoth Encyclopedia of the Unsolved (2000); and these books give exact measurements allegedly derived from Agatharcides. These numbers are found even earlier in Charles Berlitz’s Mysteries from Forgotten Worlds (1972), again attributed to Agatharchides.

But turning back any further and we hit a wall. The oldest reference is from 1971, when the classical scholar Livio Catullo Stecchini (1913-1979), a defender of Velikovsky and pyramid numerology, wrote an appendix to Peter Tompkins’s Secrets of the Great Pyramid (1971), wherein the author makes the first version of the claim. As Le site d’Irna quotes, Stecchini presented extraordinary detail about Agatharchides compared with his extant works:

The interesting feature of Agatharchides’ report about the dimensions of the Pyramid is that he excludes the pyramidion from the reckoning. [...] From Agatharchides’ account one gathers that the Great Pyramid of Giza was topped by such a pyramidion, "small pyramid," as the Greeks called it. In the case of this Pyramid, at least, the pyramidion was used to achieve a mathematical result. (page 372) 

 [...] the top of the Pyramid was conceived as cut off in the computation presented by Agatharchides. 


An essential point of Agatharchides’ account is that he describes the Pyramid as having an apothem which measures a stadium up to the pyramidion and having a side which measures 1 1/4 stadia. The term stadium has a double meaning: it refers to 1/10 minute of degree and it refers to a specific unit of measurement. Agatharchides uses the term in both senses. (page 372) 


From Agatharchides we learn that the apothem up to the pyramidion had a length of a stadium, that is, 1/10 of a minute of degree. (page 373) 


Agatharchides interprets the dimensions of the Pyr
amid also by taking the word stadium as referring to the stadium of 600 geographic feet. (page 373) 

 According to Agatharchides the side of the Pyramid is 1 1/4 stadia or 750 feet (230,847 millimeters), and the apothem is a stadium or 600 feet. The side of the base of the pyramidion is 9 feet. The figures indicate that Agatharchides was not concerned with presenting the actual dimensions of the Pyramid, but in illustrating the mathematical principles according to which the Pyramid had been conceived. (page 373) 


Having started with the mentioned meridian triangle, Agatharchides cut off the side so as to reduce the apothem to 600 feet and the base to 371 feet, excluding the part of the base below the half of the pyramidion. (page 374)

Not a lick of this material appears in ancient sources, which amount to a few paragraphs of fragments from Photius, Diodorus, Strabo, and others. So far as I am aware, the first authors to claim the Great Pyramid represented the circumference of the earth were John Wilson, author of The Lost Solar System of the Ancients Discovered (1856) and Edme François Jomard, editor of the Description de L’Égypt. The warrant, as Jomard had it, was that the Pyramid’s coffer was so close to the French meter (itself designed to be one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole) that the Pyramid must therefore embody astronomically-derived measurements. Other authors, like Hekekyan Bey and A. Dufeu similarly argued that the pyramid encoded the circumference of the earth in its various measurements, if multiplied by special numbers only they were able to deduce.

I have no idea where Stecchini got his material, but I can make a stab. Flinders Petrie measured the base of the Great Pyramid and, after doing some restorations to find the size with the missing casing stones, he suggested it as being 440 royal cubits per side, using simple geometry calculated from the height of the pyramid, 280 cubits. Petrie then explained that these 440 cubits were equivalent to 1.25 stadia, giving five stadia for the whole circumference. Petrie also gave a chart explaining the various measurements and their relationship to each other and to the earth. Since Petrie is the first pyramid writer to give these particular numbers (though the 440 cubit claim apparently predates him), he must therefore be the originator of the measurements cited by Stecchini.

I do not know, though, why Stecchini would make up a fake ancient source for Petrie’s measurements. The only insight I can offer is that a character by the name of Agatharchides was the subject of an ancient bit of pseudo-scholarly fraud. A certain non-existent Agatharchides of Samos was cited in the Parallela Minora of pseudo-Plutarch (2.1), a document that many scholars feel was meant as a parody of Plutarch, and Alan Cameron (Greek Mythography in the Roman World, Oxford, 2004) points out that this fellow never existed, though it did not stop centuries of scholars from puzzling over whether he was real and if so what happened to him and his books. Perhaps Stecchini was honoring the dubious citations of this figure with his own bogus citation of another by that name, but, alas, Stecchini is long dead and all we have is dozens upon dozens of pseudo-scholars repeating his claims as though they were ancient fact.

47 Comments
Tara Jordan
7/14/2013 02:06:08 pm

Jacques Grimault is a well known impostor,attention seeker,fraudster and Guru. He cites his own book "La révélation des pyramides" publication date:7 April 2005, Carnot editions,EAN13 : 9782848551289 ISBN : 978-2-8485-5128-9,but the book isn't available anywhere, neither in libraries nor in bookstores,& there is a good reason for that.The book was never written & never published in the first place, according to Opale-Plus,the catalogue of the BNF (the Bibliothèque nationale de France). Grimault defrauded the editor,he sold the project & the name of the book to the director of publications,received some advance payment,but never delivered anything.
Jacques Grimault is also since 2008 the president of a publication & an association called“Atlantis”.This association is a sect.Grimault also acts as the president for yet another esoteric association: "Association fédérative de recherches libres, La Nouvelle Atlantide" http://tinyurl.com/ottan4p
I wouldn't be surprised to see him or one of his lackeys reacting on this blog

Reply
Jason Colavito link
7/14/2013 02:22:57 pm

Thanks for the information, Tara. I must admit that I don't keep up with all of the Francophone material. I can barely keep up with the English language nuttiness!

Reply
Tara Jordan
7/15/2013 12:23:01 am

The final act of this absurdity.Olivier Krasker Rosen the executive producer of the movie "La Révélation des Pyramides",is suing Jacques Grimault for something related to Intellectual Property Theft,therefore preventing Grimault from:
1) using the movie
2) releasing a "companion book to the movie.
3) blocking the production & the release of "La Révélation des Pyramides" part 2.
Jacques Grimault is now asking for donations to finance his own"researches".
The sharks are eating their own......

Irna link
7/15/2013 10:57:07 am

The Editions Carnot went bankrupt in 2005, that could be an explanation for the fact that the book was never published. As for Atlantis or La nouvelle Atlantide, I would not say that they are "sects"; maybe "esoteric association" is nearer to reality.

Reply
Tara Jordan
7/15/2013 01:21:46 pm

Irna.Jacques Girault`s "associations" are listed as "sects" by numerous French organizations who monitor cultic activities. I am not responsible for the listing. Take a look at http://www.sos-derive-sectaire.fr/FICHES/atlantis.htm
Atlantis was listed as early as 1995. it was founded in 1927 by Paul Le Cour.Do some researches on Paul Le Cour,the man was obsessed with Judeo Masonic conspiracies, which lead Roger Dévigne the number two of "la Société des Etudes Atlantéennes" to separate himself from Paul Le Cour. A month later, Paul Le Cour founded "Atlantis"

Tara Jordan
7/15/2013 01:42:28 pm

The Editions Carnot went bankrupt in 2005,but they registered an acquired EAN13 & ISBN numbers before going bankrupt (EAN13 : 9782848551289 ISBN : 978-2-8485-5128-9).
If you consult the catalogue of Editions Carnot http://www.decitre.fr/editeur/Carnot%20Editions/?p=1 “La Révélation des Pyramides”is not even listed,because it was never written in the first place.Furthermore,a former employee of Editions Carnot testified " Il n'y a jamais eu de livre La Révélation des Pyramides publié chez Carnot en 2005.
J'ai travaillé pour les Editions Carnot. Le Jacques Grimault en question avait vendu le sujet à notre directeur, il a ensuite perçu une avance mais n'a jamais livré le moindre chapitre de ce livre fantôme.Notre directeur a été malheureusement hypnotisé par ce personnage ingérable, "monsieur je-sais-tout" au profil de gourou qui ne lui a jamais rien livré, et jamais rien rapporté. Peu de temps après cette histoire, notre société a déposé le bilan. Je vois maintenant qu'il est au générique d'un documentaire qui porte le titre la révélation des pyramides... Indépendamment du contenu de ce film, je souhaite bon courage à ceux qui doivent gérer ce type au quotidien !".

Pirvonen
7/14/2013 07:48:13 pm

"... the French meter...", which you will find was designed to be one ten-thousandth of the Pole to equator distance, not ten-millionth. That would be the millimeter.

Reply
Irna link
7/15/2013 11:00:20 am

Pirvonen, I think Jason has got it right: one ten-millionth of the distance from the Equator to the North pole, that was the definition chosen during the French revolution.

Reply
Pirvonen
7/16/2013 01:40:20 am

Oops. For some reason I was thinking in kilometers. Ten-millionth is right.

Irna link
7/15/2013 11:03:54 am

Thank you Jason for the additional insight!

Reply
Irna link
7/16/2013 01:22:32 am

Hi Tara,

Editions Carnot: Yes, I know of this "testimony"; but testis unus testis nullus, moreover when it's an anonymous testimony. There are numerous other examples of books that should have been published by Carnot, that received an ISBN, and that were never published, or later by another publisher. The only real fact that we have for now is that there are no published books by Grimault, whatever the reason.

As for the sect claims, the link you give does not claim that Atlantis is a sect; the title of the original book is "Dictionnaire des groupes religieux aujourd'hui (religions - églises - sectes - nouveaux mouvements religieux - mouvements spiritualistes)". Another link classifies Atlantis as "secte ésotérique" (http://www.vigi-sectes.org/liste/classification_sectes.html), but you should use it very cautiously, as their definition of "sect" is not the legal one, rather a theological one from a Christian point of view (see the "Avertissement général" here: http://www.vigi-sectes.org/presentation/avertissement-generale.html: "nous devons prendre garde de considérer le mot "secte", dans son optique globale et théologique").

I do not wish to defend Grimault and Pooyard here, but I would rather have them attacked on the *content* of their documentary film, and on their *methods* of manipulation of the facts, than by exaggerated or unsustained accusations.

Reply
Tara Jordan
7/16/2013 09:02:40 am

1)I agree about the anonymous testimony,I am taking it with a pinch of salt.
2)The sect claims.I understand the need to be careful when it comes to classify a religious or spiritual organization as a sect,but Vigi-sectes.org/ (among others groups) also list Atlantis as a sect.In reality,there is a thin line between alternative religious & (or) spiritual, esoteric societies & cultic activities. l`Ordre du Temple Solaire immediately comes to mind.Do you remember Ron Hubbard saying " if you want to make real money,start a new religion..."(I am paraphrasing), but based on Grimault`s manipulation techniques, the man has great potential to develop a cult leader mentality.
3) I consulted your site on many occasions,and you are doing a great job.Keep it up.

Reply
Stéphane ELSENER
7/18/2013 12:39:51 am

Dear all,

as a "follower" of this movie, I have to warn you about a fact.

The links you used to discredit Atlantis as a sect are made....by religious fanatics (I hope you'll be smart enough to check it.)

The correct link to follow in order to know that this association has never been recognized as a sect is the official french government website.
http://www.derives-sectes.gouv.fr/

(here you can notice the ".gouv.fr" that proves the official website)

giving any other link to spit on the movie is defamation and isn't an correct way to act in my opinion.

I have by the way to thank IRNA here who warned you before me about thos allegations of sect.

Have a nice day and keep on questionning about those facts....

Even if you believe that this movie is wrong, it will surely make you open books and learn more about all those ancients mysteries.


Reply
Stéphane ELSENER
7/18/2013 01:08:30 am

Tara, I can't resist to ask you...

Who are you working for to defame the movie like that?

From whom are you the lackey here? ;)

Reply
Tara Jordan
7/18/2013 02:12:00 am

I am working on behalf of the Illuminati but the CIA is paying my bills

Reply
Tim Coan
6/12/2018 01:58:40 pm

Can you get me a job with the Illuminati? I enjoyed your commentary. Can you recommend a book or film on archeoastronomy?

Stéphane ELSENER
7/18/2013 01:08:36 am

Tara, I can't resist to ask you...

Who are you working for to defame the movie like that?

From whom are you the lackey here? ;)

Reply
Tara Jordan
7/18/2013 02:33:48 am

You are asking me to cite http://www.derives-sectes.gouv.fr/ as a reference?. You`re either utterly ignorant or totally dishonest. Let me remind you that during Nicolas Sarkozy`s quinquennat, Sarkozy (who happens to be Tom cruise personal friend) personally intervened upon his administration to "make it easy" for the Church of Scientology who became entangled in a series of scandals.legal suits & criminal prosecutions.You have the right to believe that Jacques Grimault is a man of science,honest and ethical,mais il faut arreter de nous prendre pour des imbéciles.

Reply
stéphane Elsener
7/18/2013 04:10:04 am

No comment Tara, you must be right by using a Christian evangelist support to convince the world...

And you are right too, since Sarkozy, each French is a scientologist unable to understand what a sect is...yark

So in order to help you....I saw this movie, I NEVER paid anything, I'm still working and I'm not going to any kind of church pretending eating a floor dead body part :D

So, all you do is defamation and religious fanatism...

Let's talk about the facts proposed in the movie, even if we disagree, we can discuss and learn all together...As we do with IRNA (sans rancune)

Spitting on the autor and realisator of the movie is a mark of weakness proving that you're not able to default the facts....And spite of you, you promote the movie.

Et je suis capable de discernement ;)

Reply
Irna link
7/18/2013 04:28:15 am

Stéphane : "As we do with IRNA"? Really? That's probably why you blocked me on Facebook, why Patrice Pooyard also blocked me, and why Jacques Grimault is unable not to resort to personal attacks :)
Let's talk rather of the facts: as we are here on Jason's post about Agatharchides and Stecchini, would you have some informations about these mysterious quotes that can be found nowhere in Agatharchides' fragments? Mr. Grimault claims that he has all the necessary references, maybe you could ask him for some enlightenment?

Reply
Tara Jordan
7/18/2013 05:55:55 am

1) Je ne suis pas une Chrétienne évangéliste,je suis athée
2) Grimault est un imposteur,un charlatan & un vulgaire marchand de clowneries ésotériques. Son public est composé d`adultes attardés en quête d`identité. Ses recherches ont été démolies a maintes reprises,il ne reste rien de ce sous produit de la culture Erich Von Daniken

Reply
Stéphane ELSENER
7/18/2013 04:25:38 am

I meant Flour dead body part sorry for my English. It was for holly bread

Reply
Stéphane ELSENER
7/18/2013 04:35:38 am

IRNA, we invited you on other supports where some of your friends as cerberus, nemrod and tsuki won't be able to pollute and insult us on each comment.

As you were censoring some posts and not those ones, we decided to stop losing time on your wall (on Facebook).

You are still welcome on our forum and we would be pleased to talk again with you here. As I already told you, it was good for each "side" to learn like that.

I hope it's clear enough

(I saw that you finally admitted the size of 1 meter for the pyramidion. Great point ;) )

Reply
Irna link
7/18/2013 05:09:35 am

"we invited you on other supports where some of your friends as cerberus, nemrod and tsuki won't be able to pollute and insult us on each comment."

No thanks; I do not feel like writing in "Facts in the film and their pseudo-refutation", or in "Official history and real past" :)
And I do not wish to write in a forum where a participant wrote that http://www.larevelationdespyramides-leforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1487&start=20#p9544 (without giving the source that could enable the reader to see that it's false), and refused here https://www.facebook.com/irnafrance/posts/10201084115413885?comment_id=6162388&offset=50&total_comments=931 to correct his false accusation.

" (I saw that you finally admitted the size of 1 meter for the pyramidion. Great point ;) )"

Are you dreaming?

Back to the topic: any information about the sources for Agatharchides' quotes?

Reply
Stéphane ELSENER
7/18/2013 04:50:05 am

I just realized that it would have been more correct to write

"as we DID with IRNA" but I hope it will change soon ;)

Reply
Paracelse link
9/21/2015 03:44:37 pm

I don't know who you all work or getting paid by. You don't have to be a scientist to know that the wobling of the earth will create changes and there aren't any conspiracies in saying that there is no man made climate changes. Nature does a fine job of changing every second. Furthermore did any of you actually read Schwaller de Lubicz? Yeah I know he had nazi connections therefore he was a coot. Why did SRI (the CIA research facility from Standford) has paid to investigate what was underneath the Sphinx? Because there isn't anything underneath right? I don't particularly care if Jacques Grimault is a crook, I haven't donated anything so as far as I'm concerned he can be whatever he wants (his Karma).
One thing is certain is that movie brought together in one place several scientist (I'm thinking of Dune in particular) instead of searching in thousands.
Anyhow, fighting like proves one think, I will never come back to this site. I rather stay with honest pyramidiots. At least we can still talk like civilized people even when we disagree.
Cordially yours.

Reply
lllo
10/22/2015 04:30:21 pm

I also wanted to find the original book by Grimault. It does not exist. Has not ever existed. Even Amazon which has everything - has not a record of it whatsoever.

Reply
Murgatroyd
10/28/2016 11:59:00 am

Illo wrote:

"I also wanted to find the original book by Grimault. It does not exist. Has not ever existed."

The good (?) news is that, according to this blog https://zegatt.wordpress.com/2016/09/12/la-revelation-des-pyramides-6-a-qui-profite-le-sarcophage-tout-en-amont/ , Patrice Pouillard states that it does exist.

I found that link on this page http://irna.lautre.net/La-rupture.html (Fr.) of Irna's site, which reveals the devastating news that Pouillard ("Poopoo") and Grimault ("Grigri") are no longer working together.

Reply
Martin Stower
11/3/2015 11:45:58 am

I have a theory that the credence given to Livio Catullo Stecchini is a function of the sheer impressiveness of the name.

In a similar way, R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz is that much more impressive than just plain René Schwaller.

Reply
Tom
12/11/2015 07:10:48 pm

Dear All, simple question:

has anyone from you analysed facts and figures given in the movie? I am not a scientist /a scientologist neither :)/, so it might be quite absorbing to do all the homework by myself.

Can anyone brief on most crucial elements of the movie? To them would belong:
a). staying pyramids in a one line,
b). the line from a) beeing 30 degrees to equator,
c). dimensions and geometrics of the pyramis: relation of Pi, Fi, 1 meter, multiplies of those numer hidden in different dimensions,
d). geometry of astrological indications of sphix: that every ca. 26.000 years the new cycle begins
e). strong coleration of cycles mentioned in d) with climate changes incl. fires/storms/catastrophies.

Let's do some critics: I have seen the movie and it appeared to me enormously interesting - BUT ARE THEESE FACTS ALL TRUE?

Best regards,
Tom

Reply
Irna link
3/14/2016 05:41:39 pm

Hi Tom, there have been a lot of analyses of the various claims in this film, but mostly in French. If you understand French I can give you a few links.
In a nutshell: most of the "facts" in the film are either false or wrongly interpreted in a dramatic and far-fetched way. Grimault, the author, is not a scientist, he's unable to provide his sources and never published his so-called measurements. He was recently invited by an online skeptic podcast, and he failed miserably to provide any argument, resorting instead to insults.

Reply
Harte
12/27/2016 03:23:26 pm

No, these are not true. Frank Doernenberg explains the "pi in the pyramid" quite well on his website: https://doernenburg.alien.de/alternativ/pyramide/pyr12_e.php

Irna: The reason there is little debunking of the film in English is that most people can't get through the first half hour without giving in to the temptation to simply close the YouTube window and walk away shaking their heads.

Hell, it's hard enough just to get past the first images - alternating Egypt with Easter Island moai and such.

The French are far more tolerant. I cite Jerry Lewis as an example of this.

Harte

Reply
Irna link
12/27/2016 07:01:15 pm

Hi Harte, I don't know whether the French are more tolerant, or just less used to this kind of crap! After all, Ancient Aliens was broadcast on French TV for the first time only last year!
I have to admit that I'm quite ashamed that, in the country of Descartes, people could give almost 200.000 $ to help the authors make the second part of this film...

Martin Stower
12/27/2016 07:37:21 pm

Le pays aussi de Pauwels, Bergier, Charroux . . .

If you can find it, it’s worth reading a 40-year-old paper by John Brunner: “Science Fiction and the Larger Lunacy”. He mentions in passing the difficulty he had in getting his point across in French science fiction circles.

M.

irna link
12/28/2016 07:29:02 am

"Le pays aussi de Pauwels, Bergier, Charroux . . ."
Yes, unfortunately! :)

Russell Alger link
4/2/2020 08:23:24 pm

I have checked and continue to check the 'facts' presented in the documentary and find all of it to be true and a great deal more amazing facts have been presented (with the help of a CAD program). Whoever designed the cubit/meter and the Great Pyramid also designed it all to be found and proven true if Pi is reconciled as add 1/10,000th to Pi and remove any remainder, or Pi = 3.1416
Pi = 3.1416 divided by 6 is .5236 leaving 2.618 of the circumference of a circle of r = 1 meter. Use this cubit to construct the G. Pyramid in CAD and measure lengths and angles and it all fits perfectly, even to the King's chamber measures, plus the ratios of the height shown in the film are perfect. I'm no Egypt scholar but I can add, subtract, multiply, divide and do ratios with numbers for cripes sake. That's all one need do to check this!!!
Oh, by the way... The inset of each side that makes the pyramid an 8 sided polyhedron encodes the RADIAN!!! Just facts by the number.

Reply
y
3/14/2016 07:49:42 am

Reply
Deb
8/26/2016 12:15:27 am

Hello guys, I am a French girl suspecting one of my best friend to be mislead by Jacques Grimault and cie. I watched the video, read a lot about it, but I can't figure out if it's true or not. I don't think it can be dangerous anyway. He's just loosing his money I guess. But if anybody can tell me more about science and real facts, I'll be glad. Merci beaucoup ! Deb

Reply
Irna link
8/26/2016 04:58:04 am

Bonjour Deb, j'ai rassemblé des liens vers pas mal de ressources sur LRDP et Grimault sur mon site :
- articles de blogs et forums les plus anciens : http://irna.lautre.net/La-Revelation-des-Pyramides.html
- mise à jour suite à l'émission de la Tronche en Biais : http://irna.lautre.net/Jacques-Grimault-invite-de-La.html
- vidéos : http://irna.lautre.net/LRDP-en-videos.html
plus bien sûr les articles critiques sur mon propre site.
Je doute que ça permette de convaincre votre ami s'il est vraiment fan de Grimault, mais ça peut vous donner des éléments. Vous pouvez me contacter en privé si vous avez des questions sur le sujet !
Cordialement, Irna

Reply
Tomo
2/21/2017 03:13:56 am

Hi all,

Interestingly enough - to watch only personal attacks without explaining any (counter)fact is like listening to teenagers quarreling about should they play football or basketball in gym.

I can't read French, so I miss the details on Frech sites, but as far as I can see (from comments like "buahaha", "imbecile" etc which are rather understandable even to non-French speaker) I can count those and debunk "facts" as nothing else than another personal attack.

People who follow people who call opponents an "imbecile" are just likely - imbeciles and it does not give any heavy argument on their side.

Noone mentioned it was a scientific movie. But there is a ton of facts. One can check it and either accept them or deny them. Calling someone an imbecile is not a counterfact. Quite contrary.

Best regards
Tomo

Reply
bob smith
5/9/2017 09:50:21 am

if i ever won the lottery and could get back into reading, i'd just rent and apartment and do nothing but read jason colavito and my other favorite author, harvey cox, who wrote all those books about religions.... i had to write a paper about one of harvey cox's books way back in college, and he's written alot since then. but jason colavito does everything in just one source.... and i just don't have the time to read and read anymore...

Reply
Marco
5/22/2018 03:08:40 pm

Came across this after watching the German version of the _Révélation_ occultism on YouTube. So here's my two cents even though it's been a while since the last post.
There's one point the video rightly makes: whenever modern science does not know what to make of something ancient, they explain it away as something religious, mythical, or cultist. They should have enough guts to simply say, We don't know.
Apart from that, most of the video's points are logical nonsense, whether you know mainstream egyptology or not, whether you advocate this being sectarian or not.
1. The two ancient cultures we have some supporting evidence on to say their big constructions have some calendarian and cosmological significance – the megalithic culture in Brittany and Greater Cornwall (Carnac, Stonehenge, etc.) are not on the video's alternative equator.
2. Angkor Wat sneaks in because it happens to be on the alternative equator, despite not being pyramidic at all. If you actually ask engineers, as the video advocates, they are amazed at the irrigation systems of Angkor Wat or Machu Picchu, the sheer inconceivability of building the large, tonnes-weighing monuments with little lifting equipment, but not at the occult numerology around pi and phi (where phi almost never appears in the film as such, only phi²).
3. It's well-known that ancient civilizations knew and used the golden number in art and architecture. They simply tended not to call it thus.
4. The video admits that the pyramids had a limestone coating, just advocates the one found at the base of the Great Pyramid didn't belong there. Whoever coats the surface cannot have in mind the play of light at equinox at the centerline break. So the video raises a point, but the explanation it gives is simply illogical.
5. If that ancient, no-writing, alien civilization had the pinpoint geometrical and geographical accuracy, why would it need a 100 km-wide band as an alternative equator? Because if it was as accurate as the civilization is portrayed as being, then even the Peruvian sites next to each other would not all be on the same equator.
6. If the civilization was as advanced as to know that it takes 72 years for the stars to shift by 1 degree in the sky, to come up with a 26,000 years cycle, why would they have the sphinx gaze at a fixed point in the sky? Knowing that a civilization to come in a few thousand years' time would not see the sphinx gazing at that star it gazed at when the mysterious alien civilization was on Earth.
7. If the sphinx is the hand of that sundial (or, rather, star dial), why does it not gaze in the direction that one of the edges of the Great Pyramid indicates? Considering that they are meant to point to the bright star in Taurus, Leo, Scorpius, Aquarius. And that's not thinking of the nonsense it would be to line up the pyramid with stars in the sky their advanced architects know will not be in line with those edges just a few hundred years later. Why would the edges allow indicating the 26,000-years cycle if these very indicators were visibly wrong after one-tenth of that period?
8. And finally, the biggest nonsense of all when you consider this a numerologist's research: The relation of inside and outside circle around a square will always be based on pi and does not indicate any hermetic, occult wisdom. It's what pi actually is: the irrational number defined as the ratio of the radius of a circle to its circumference, where the circumference then logically defines the length of any secant through that circle. That's not some arcane knowledge; whenever you go after the relation of a circle to a line segment or a rectangular shape, you'll find pi somewhere in your equation.

And that's just the logical nonsense in the video. If you happen to have some knowledge (mainstream and besides) of ancient civilizations, just watching the video is a tough assignment, until you start taking it as a prank and laugh wholeheartedly,

Reply
Kevin Tibbetts
2/10/2019 10:28:05 pm

You don't debunk any of the math. You just site sources you believe the math came from and call those authors names like pseudo archeologist. And not one time in the documentary was the idea of atlantis mentioned. You mentioned it first paragraph to let your readers know that you are "on the side of science". Nor did they make any erroneous claims about aliens. The documentary ask the questions if it was possible we lost knowledge.
Using big words and meaningless run away sentences doesn't make you a credible scientist, Just a typical skeptic who doesn't publish any original work.
Why do you really think works like these are never released into the mainstream? You ever thought about why throughout history the mainstream views always sought to oppress any new ideas? Probably not, considering that's your religion.

Reply
bob newb
7/8/2019 10:53:52 pm

Skeptics r often guilty of their own claims, ie focus on trivial aspects as a means of fear mongering. Much like focusing on spelling errors as a means of discrediting work. Spelling is important & sometimes critical, but usually not important. Focusing on 'sources' is another diversionary tactic. While critical in scientific circles the move is not a scientific exercise so does not need to satisfy skeptic criteria. As per usual Jason haven't focused on the actual claims just sources. No one cares if the ancient sources r cited correctly or not.Get over your desire for scientific process.

Are the logical & math claims correct???
Are the construction claims correct or not?
etc
etc
Unless Jason can counter the claims as wrong, or provide counter claims then one has to wonder if he & others have OCD or related issues or part of the establishment, simple lack logical skills.

The movie may be utter rubbish but Jason has done little to prove that.

BTW, astrophysics & other real sciences now prove Atlantis destruction occurred during last meteor shower that wiped out the mega fauna to within 100 yrs claimed by Plato & the pharaoh's. Trending data over the last 430,000 yrs demonstrates the earth was mostly in ice age periods with only 3 short lived inter-glacial warm periods. ANd within 15 yrs earth will re-enter the mini-ice age last seen in t he middle ages according to science.
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-mini-ice-age-is-coming-in-the-next-15-years


the problem with people today is that they focus & specialize but in doing so loose the big picture.

a scientist recently found a pyramid in indonesia 20,000 yrs old.

maps from middle ages show land masses that have not existed since the last cataclysm 10k yrs ago. The maps used knowledge not available till 1800's. Maps were copies of ancient map.

etc etc

skeptics can play arrogant all they like but the joke is on them...

Reply
Marcosmologia
3/12/2020 03:07:37 pm

"pseudo-scholarly fraud"
Who cares!? The calim is to 99,9% CORRECT!

if you understand the geometry of the great pyramid, you can crack the "code" behind it. i can prove to 99,99992785% NASA telemetry DATA are encoded into the original shape of the great pyramid.

coincidence or architectual purpose?

Reply
David Barcelona
6/15/2020 07:21:35 pm

Dear all,

first of all let me say that I enjoyed every minute of the movie The Revelation of The Pyramids. It takes talent and powerful imagination to create such a story, even if it is fake, which I'm not capable to tell.

I also enjoyed all your comments, even if disagree with some of them, because discussion is always a source for new ideas coming.

I'm an architect and, when projecting a new building, there's no such a radical separation between maths, technics /science and beauty / poetry / message. All them are sides of true, deep knowledge / intelligence and real good design.

I don't see Girault as another thing than a brilliant thinker / creator. Ok, not a "scientist". No need for calling him "pseudo-scientist" though. I don't think that he intends to be one either. And definitely not a cultist. I see more sectarianism in certain comments claiming to be "purely scientific", instead.

Reply
jason cocavito escobar
7/14/2022 01:44:29 pm

You didn't even watch the film, it's not "just a line".

So instead of debunking any of the 50 math, geological, astrological claim of the documentary you are talking about neo nazis, what a pyramidion

Reply

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    • Television Reviews >
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    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
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      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
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      • Blunders in the Sky
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      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
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      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
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    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
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      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
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    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
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        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
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          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
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        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
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          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
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        • Hesiod's Theogony
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        • Sanchuniathon
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        • The Book of Enoch
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        • Aelian's Various Histories
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        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
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          • Sardinia and Atlantis
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          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
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          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
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          • Rebuttal to Termier
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          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
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          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
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          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
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        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
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      • Religious Conspiracies >
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        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
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        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
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          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
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        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
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        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
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        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
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        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
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        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
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        • Mexican Mythology
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        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
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        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
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        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
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        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
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      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
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        • The Moon Hoax
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        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
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      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
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      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
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