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Thinking about J. Allen Hynek's Fraternity Days and Ufology's Masculinity Question

9/15/2020

47 Comments

 
As I’ve been working on my book, I’ve noticed that the theme has slowly drifted away from my original plan. My outline had such a nice, rigid structure with a tripartite division among the three moral panics that originated in 1947, the Red Scare, the Lavender Scare, and the UFO scare, with discussion of how these panics resulted from defining groups of outsiders against a conformist mainstream culture. But as I wrote, the separation between the parts started to break down, in large measure because the social aspects of all three moral panics rather quickly subordinated themselves to a broader concern about redefining masculinity after the crisis of the war years. Hence, the Red Scare devolved into panic over gays, gay panic plunged into disputes over effeminacy and weakness, and from the very first day of the UFO flap, everyone measured witnesses’ credibility by their masculinity. The very first flying saucer articles even talked about Kenneth Arnold’s high school football salad days and how muscular and tall he was, as though masculinity equaled credibility.
The drift is my fault, really. When I decided I needed a point of view character to tie the story together, it opened a can of worms. One of the truisms of writing is that characters tend to have minds of their own, despite an author’s plans. The original structure I had planned came about when I toyed with the idea of making Rebel without a Cause director Nicholas Ray the point of view character. He was quite involved with the House Un-American Activities Committee and had a lot of thoughts about communism, sexuality, etc., and was superficially well positioned to serve the role. But he was also an unpleasant character and probably a statutory rapist, and I had no interest in trying to work with that. I saw how the effort to steer a story about him out of gross territory undermined the book about the making of Rebel without a Cause, which took him for its lead, and I didn’t want to go down that path.
 
But switching the main character to James Dean ended up undermining my plans because he came with his own baggage, and in remaking the narrative quite literally gave me the book’s thesis: “Being an actor is the loneliest thing in the world,” he said. “You are all alone with your concentration and imagination, and that’s all you have. Being a good actor isn’t easy. Being a man is even harder. I want to be both before I’m done.” And who am I to turn down a gift-wrapped roadmap, however much it has changed my plans?
 
Anyway, it turns out that this lens has produced some rather compelling insights. I listened recently to Edward R. Murrow’s April 1950 CBS radio documentary about flying saucers, and it’s interesting to listen to the show using witnesses’ traditionally masculine virtues, particularly military affiliation, as evidence that they saw flying saucers, while the only woman interviewed thought she saw an airplane until her husband corrected her and she went on to tell Murrow about how her husband had to be right.
 
But it was more interesting to read J. Allen Hynek’s books from this perspective. Most readers focus on his UFO evidence, of course, but if you start looking at what he felt made a reliable witness, and how that changed over time, it starts to become pretty obvious he, too, had some clear biases. In the beginning, he seems to have become troubled by his inability to reconcile his initial UFO skepticism with his sexist belief that traditionally masculine men, particularly men in uniform, couldn’t suffer from effeminate hysteria or the psychological errors—which in those days were treated as a weakness, and therefore something that classified a person with women, queers, etc. on the outside of mainstream culture. He isn’t doctrinaire about it, and he certainly refers to women on occasion, but the overarching theme comes through pretty clearly, particularly when describing how his initial skepticism gave way to belief through repeated work with enlisted military men.
 
I didn’t know how hard to push this theme, however, until I read the opening chapter of The Close Encounters Man, the recent biography of Hynek. It’s spotty on the first several decades of his life, condensing them all down to a couple of pages, but I found this anecdote particularly telling:
Finally settled on a career in science, he made the unlikely decision to pledge Alpha Tau Omega, a predominantly athletic fraternity.
 
According to Hynek’s son Paul, the fourth of five children from his father’s second marriage, pledging to ATΩ was a strategic move that could have been made only by a refugee from an all-male high school: “[The athletes] would help him meet girls, and he would help their grades.” There was, however, a wrinkle. “There were already two brothers in the fraternity named Joe,” Paul said, and Hynek did not want to repeat the experience of being the third and lowest-ranking Joe in the household.
If I read between the lines correctly, it sounds like the undersized science nerd bought his way into a frat by basically doing athletes’ homework for them in exchange for help getting dates. He even changed his name to fit in better, and kept the new name for the rest of his life. It seems that his high school and college experiences gave him a strong affection and respect for a certain stereotypically masculine archetype, if his later conclusions are any guide, and as much as I don’t like to psychoanalyze dead people, it’s hard not to draw a line straight from this to his difficulty in separating his feelings of admiration for airmen, soldiers, and other grownup frat boys from the utter lack of evidence that the things they claimed to see were actually alien or occult machines flying in the skies. It was easier to imagine space poltergeists than to imagine that real men might be in error, or even irrational.
 
I especially liked this anecdote because I love parallelism, and it allows me to create an echo between Hynek’s experience and James Dean’s. Dean also joined a fraternity dominated by jocks, but he had the opposite experience. Rather than spending four years trading favors to be part of their world, Dean lasted about four months. He got mad at what we would today call their culture of toxic masculinity, and it all ended at a party when the brothers called him gay and he punched one in the nose. Like I said, I like parallelism, and the unintentional echo makes for good art—and also an object lesson.
47 Comments
E.P. Grondine
9/16/2020 11:56:41 am

Hi Jason -

You are wandering. If it was me, I'd stick with the Dean material from Elvira to his death.

Also, I'd organize the material into a screen play.

But then what do I know? Well, I read books sometimes, and sometimes I watch TV.

Reply
Jim Davis
9/16/2020 01:12:03 pm

I think the issue here isn't so much one of masculinity but one of authority and/or status. Authority figures (police, military, politicians, teachers, etc) tend to be looked upon as more credible than others. The same is true of people of high status (doctors, lawyers, professionals, intellectuals, wealthy, famous athletes, famous entertainers, etc).

It's just that in the 1940s and 1950s these people were overwhelmingly males.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/16/2020 02:25:51 pm

You're certainly right that high status seems to be behind it, but there are two mitigating factors: Most of the "credible" military witnesses were low-ranking or mid-ranked, so their status is more social than actual. Second, he says he had an antipathy toward the high-ranking officer class, as he also did for intellectual elites. As you note, the question of who held high status and authority in those days was bound up in sexist ideas.

Reply
Nick Danger
9/17/2020 11:06:12 am

I recently watched an old Roger Corman movie, I forgot the title, where four people where marooned on a "deserted" island. There was a woman, an Asian assistant, a Latinx ship captain, and the white guy.

Whenever a problem came up, they all (even the captain!) turned to look at the white guy to hear what his orders were. He was obviously at the top of the status order.

If there had been more than one white guy, I assume there would have been a battle for superiority, or a clear acknowledgement by one that the other was superior (or perhaps an ongoing conflict between the good guy and bad guy). Sounds like masculinity to me.

It seems to me that the "good vs. evil" narrative could, in some instances, override the masculinity narrative. Mr. Colavito, I think you're close.

Reply
Karl
9/16/2020 05:27:46 pm

With regard to the witness credibility issue, some of it may be bias towards "masculine" witnesses, but some of it is clearly a (badly, badly misguided) bias towards "experienced" witnesses based on serious failures to understand the degree to which perception is constructive and expectation driven. I can think of few categories of people who would be *less* reliable witnesses than experienced military pilots, for instance. If there was a sighting from a commercial aircraft, and you had a choice between a description of the event from a pilot in the cockpit with 30 years' experience and a description of the event from a 7 year old looking out the window, you'd be infinitely better off with the child's account for exactly the same reason stage magicians *hate* performing for small children -- it's hard to engage in misdirection with them because they "see* what's actually happening, not a conditioned, learned *interpretation* of what's happening. Ruppelt's account of the military pilot who got into a dogfight with a balloon near Cuba is a classic example of this problem.

Reply
Behold El Caballo del Oro
9/16/2020 09:10:05 pm

This pretty much cinches it. From several of your posts beginning with the protocols of the elders of Zion being published by the FBI, I feel like I've just read Behold, A Pale Horse all over again. Those are three hours I'll never get back.
Thanks for rubbing it in.

Reply
Clete
9/16/2020 11:21:50 pm

You know, there is an old trick to avoid jury duty that I have used twice when called. When the judge asks if you would believe a police officer's testimony over that of an ordinary citizen, I always said I would believe the police officer. I was usually dismissed right away and could then continue on with my day instead of being trapped in a courtroom.

Reply
tom mellett
9/18/2020 02:14:21 pm

Jason,

Simultaneously with your posting here, Robert Shaeffer posted his own review of Mark O'Connell's book, linking to it on UFO FB.

https://badufos.blogspot.com/2020/07/book-review-close-encounters-man-by.html

I then put up your link and got this reply from Robert

=============
Tom, in my opinion Jason is really stretching here to manufacture a political point out of nothing. Hynek never came across to me as a "macho" sort of guy, nor did he display any concern for sports or other "macho" pursuits. In fact, he appeared somewhat low-key and soft-spoken.

I guess some people are determined to see a "masculinity question" in UFOlogy, whether there is one or not.
=============

Quite fascinating how Robert totally misconstrues what you said about Hynek. In no way, shape or form did you even imply that Hynek was macho. If anything, Hynek was *overtly* anti-macho, which would fit his *overtly* low-key and soft-spoken manner as Robert observed with him.

But covertly? Well, that's the whole point of your post.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/18/2020 07:24:42 pm

That's so odd that he misunderstood my meaning like that. The whole point is that he was kind of gullible (as Shaeffer notes) and seems to have formed his views about UFOs in response to spending a lot of time working directly with macho military types who were so different from him, and, in his estimation therefore simple, honest, and credible.

Reply
Pulling A Jim
9/18/2020 04:13:49 pm

https://www.bbc.com/reel/playlist/the-secrets-of-the-templars

Someone has found one of the larger oculi. Now if folks would only pay attention to the cathedrals.

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
9/18/2020 06:44:24 pm

I suspect Hynek at least was engaging in the same kind of lionizing of the common manover the "elites" that leads to the fetishization of Sam Gamgee, or for that matter my name here. The difference between Hynek and Dean in this regard looks like Dean was always searching for something, and discarding avenues of approach as soon as he decided it wasn't down that road. Hynek stuck school out, if only because not to do so wasn't an option for whatever reason. It's a little amusing to imagine a Freaky Friday situation where Dean becomes a physicist and Hynek an actor, but I don't think Dean would've managed grad school.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/18/2020 07:33:38 pm

In terms of the single-minded commitment and the stress, no doubt Dean wouldn't have made it through grad school. But he finished his first year of college near the top of his class, so it wasn't an intellectual impossibility, only a temperamental one. By contrast, Hynek lamented in 1973 that "I've never launched any new theories; I've never made any outstanding discoveries. I guess I am not very innovative." If the comments from Elia Kazan and George Stevens are any indication, movie directors of the time tended to prefer that unimaginative approach to doing what you're told.

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
9/18/2020 09:05:28 pm

The temperament was actually what I was thinking of, as I've known plenty of marginal brains with advanced degrees. If a year as a student left him impatient and ready to move on, ten years of school working on a doctorate isn't likely.

Jason Colavito link
9/18/2020 10:04:01 pm

It's interesting how some people are temperamentally driven to climb while others just aren't. Hynek's own biographer couldn't manage to find enough incident about his first 40 years of life to fill more than half of a chapter heavily padded with UFO sightings. I have the opposite problem; Dean did so much in his final 18 months of life that it will be a struggle to make a reasonable abridgment to fit into the space allotted in my book.

E.P. Grondine
9/20/2020 12:07:58 pm

Hi Jason -

While the \mind will wander where it will, you have another book here.

The one with Brando, Vampira, Dean and Mineo is enough. If you do not do it, someone else will.

Kent
9/18/2020 08:32:02 pm

I bet Hynek was never a five-time all state football champion.

Reply
Dinky
9/18/2020 10:21:38 pm

He would have to attend highschool for 5 years. You're dumber than you make Hynek out to be.

Reply
Kent
9/19/2020 12:57:41 am

It's not unheard of to attend high school for five years, but I didn't say "high school". I shall reserve comment on your intelligence.

Thunderstick the Bold
9/19/2020 02:17:05 pm

"all state football"

Your statement implies the highschool level of American Football. DUH!!!

Kent
9/19/2020 07:40:26 pm

http://theallstategame.com/

https://oregonallstategame.com/

http://kymsfa.digitalsports.com/

I could go on, but... duh.

Tom brady
9/20/2020 09:32:05 pm

One might attend high school for five years but would only have four years of eligibility. Even if five years of eligibility did occur, who did you know who has done it and won five championship? Likewise, it is highly unlikely that anyone has participated on five of any other sort of all state football championship teams. I could be wrong. Can you give an example? Maybe flag football or church league touch football? A powderpuff team maybe?

Kent
9/20/2020 11:43:54 pm

Well, said the spider to the fly, take it up with Anthony Warren, a.k.a. Priceless Defender, a.k.a. Junior Time Lord, a.k.a. "Pulling a Jim" above. He claims he did it. I don't claim anything.

Proconsul obvious
9/21/2020 10:29:09 am

Can you point out where he made that claim or are you just going by what the voices in your head told you that he said? And why did you post links that would support such an assertion if he did make them and you have such a low opinion of him?

Never stop letting your reach exceed your grasp. It's fun to watch.

Kent
9/21/2020 04:56:58 pm

Yes I can. So can you. Just use the site's Search function. Please don't "pull a Jim" and try to tell me this site has no Search function.

Sub chief obvious
9/21/2020 08:25:24 pm

Burden of proof, ortho. Burden of proof.

And the search engine would explain why you posted information in support of an alleged claim by someone whom you discount? I'd love to see you play chess.

Michael Redmond
9/20/2020 05:09:08 pm

I'm sure, Jason, you've heard all the gay buzz about Dean. I have no idea what's fact or fiction, but I have a friend, now 85, who was in the right place at the right time and insists Dean worked both sides of the street, as it were. If I can persuade him to go on the record, would you be interested in talking to him?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/20/2020 06:19:29 pm

Sure, I'm always happy to listen.

We needn't speculate too much. Dean said himself that he had been with both women and men. The historiography of it is weird and somewhat strange, though. Biographers took very different views. In the 1950s & 60s they made him straight. In the 1970s and 80s they declared him gay. In the 1990s and 2000s they went with bisexual. A distinct minority argues for straight with predatory opportunism and a side of sociopath.

We can't very well measure a dead man's feelings, and he had relationships with people of both sexes. However, all of that took place over a very brief period of about three and a half years, and the majority in the last 18 months. I'd guess that he hadn't really sorted his own feelings out before he died. That said, for someone in those days to devote so much energy to pursuing men, when it was dangerous and detrimental, probably says something. I read the catalog of books in his library when he died, and I recognized a lot of the titles because I read them, too. Somewhere between a quarter and a third were books by or about gay men, or on homoerotic themes. My thought is that not too many straight guys have libraries like that.

Reply
Michael Redmond
9/20/2020 06:47:31 pm

I'll try pitching him, then. He's a long-out gay man with a lot of history on both Coasts and in jet-set Europe, retired in Santa Fe. As time has gone by he has opened up more and more. He has all his marbles and then some. I think he would be intrigued by the 1947 focus. If this starts coming together I'll switch to email coms. /mr/

E.P. Grondine
9/20/2020 10:08:32 pm

Damn it, Jason. Brando, Dean, Mineo and Vampira.You have stumble into a great story, and ifd you do not write it, someone else will.

Tom M
9/20/2020 10:38:49 pm

I think Dean had most certainly “sorted things out” in terms of his sexuality for the reasons you stated. It’s seems to me he was a gay man who had sex with woman out of opportunity or just sheer boredom. Given the choice however, men was his preference. I suppose that qualifies as bisexual in the broadest sense. He was also into S&M as Natalie Wood supposedly commented, sex with Dean was too rough for her tastes.

Straight men most certainly don’t have a third of their library in homo erotic literature. He certainly wasn’t very discreet in his pursuit of men. Although as an actor I don’t know how detrimental that would have been. There have always been many gay actors. At the time, Dean, Brando, McQueen, Newman, represented a new generation of gay actors less worried about their public image. As opposed to say, Rock Hudson and the gay actors of his generation that would have been terrified of such revelations. Although Brando, McQueen, and Newman all married women to appear more traditional and probably more macho. Newman, while married to Woodward, is said to have come on to Robert Redford who respectfully declined. Had he lived, Dean probably would have followed a similar career path. Or he could have followed in the career path of his costar Sal Mineo. It’s impossible to say. But I don’t buy the argument that James Dean was a young man confused about his sexuality. He knew who he was and he knew how to use sex to get what he wanted. Just as many actors and actresses did at the time and continue to do so even now.

Jason Colavito link
9/21/2020 10:04:05 am

You mean, Tom, that you don't feel the passion emanating from Dean's relationships with women? They were like siblings, one girlfriend said of their coupling. He would sit and stare at the ocean in silence when they were together, said another. He only wanted to talk about death, gushed the most famous one. Friends noted that the last one looked exactly like Marlon Brando. Romance!

I kid (just barely), but to make a point: When reconstructing a life from other people's hearsay, we can make the evidence say anything. The problem, of course, is that we are two layers removed from the person. The people who relate the stories are biased, wanting to be seen as having a special relationship. The second layer is that most of what was later written about Dean (excepting the first, expurgated biography) was written by straight men who by and large don't like the real man because he doesn't match their imagined childhood icon.

But keep in mind that he was 24 when he died, so there are limits to how much one knows oneself at that age. My solution is to avoid labels and let actions speak for themselves. He had intense but brief infatuations with women that fizzled out into companionate friendships and longer but tempestuous relationships with men that he inevitably sabotaged because he was deeply uncomfortable with those feelings.

My gut feeling is that if he lived in this century he would probably be dating a man, but that is just an impression, and it is not for me to speak for the dead.

Tom M
9/22/2020 01:17:49 am

At this point Jason, hearsay is pretty much all we have. Please understand I have no horse in the race one way or the other. I find human sexuality as complex as it is diverse. It’s extremely fascinating to me why people like what they do. I think we can both agree Dean wasn’t straight. So the question becomes, was he a gay man who had sex with women or was he as passionate with women as he was with men? I don’t presume to know. I can say on a personal level, by the time I was 24 years of age I was confident in my own sexuality. I certainly knew what liked and what I wanted. And by all accounts so did Dean. He wasn’t “bi curious “ at that point and in some sort of experimental phase. It seems to me he knew who he was in a sexual sense at least.

I do think your correct in that he would have lived his life as a gay man had he lived today. I also think if he had lived he would have married and continued his relationships with men. Much like Brando and his long term love affair with comedian Wally Cox, the oddest of gay couples there ever was. Yet both married women. Which begs the question. Was Brando gay or bisexual? Clark Gable supposedly traded sexual favors with men to advance his career. Was he straight or bisexual? Cary Grant worked as a rent boy, had long term relationships with men, yet married an actress late in life and had a child. Did he become straight in his old age? The list goes on and on. Can we really put a label on anyone? I’m not so sure....

Jason Colavito link
9/22/2020 07:30:33 am

I wouldn't have chosen a straight man for the focus of my book, since that wouldn't have worked out very well. But when I say he hadn't worked out his feelings, it was less about knowing what type of sex he wanted than what to do about it. The running theme, consistent across his life, is that he was deeply uncomfortable with his attraction to men and worried that it was a sign that he was "evil." Hence the obsession with worrying about life after death, and also some of the reckless behavior. Since there is no possible way to measure a deceased person's levels of arousal, the question instead becomes more of how he behaved and how it impacted his life.

E.P. Grondine
9/22/2020 10:14:47 am

It looks to me that what we have here is a gay writer having problems writing about a bi-sexual man.

Kent
9/22/2020 07:10:55 pm

Who are you writing about?

EDWARD LOPEZ
9/20/2020 05:52:53 pm

You say, above: "...and from the very first day of the UFO flap, everyone measured witnesses’ credibility by their masculinity." Where do you get that opinion from? I was introduced to UFOlogy in 1957 by an Air Force captain while stationed in Morocco. Since then I have read hundreds of UFO books and NEVER in my reading did I read about what you opined. Provide examples.

Reply
Kent
9/20/2020 07:54:45 pm

Maybe look at it this way: everyone has their lens(es) through which they see matters. Jason has the Republicans=BAD lens and the gay exegesis lens. Also the Russian Disinformation lens, both in politics and in UFO matters. That said...

Could we consider Project Blue Book which was largely an effort devoted to debunking and explaining away the toxically masculine witnesses' accounts, and the Condon Report to be super stealthy Russian disinformation efforts? Hynek is a Czech name and Condon had his security clearance pulled multiple times. I don't think so because I don't have that particular lens.

It seems to me you are saying "from the very first day of the UFO flap, everyone measured witnesses’ credibility by their masculinity" is an extraordinary claim and you know what they say about extraordinary claims.

Reply
EDWARD LOPEZ
9/21/2020 11:33:49 pm

Masculinity has nothing to do with UFO witnesses. I never read anything associated with masculinity because UFO witnesses came from all classes of people. Women and children witnesses have no connection to masculinity. And who did the measuring and how did they develop a "masculinity" attitude towards witnesses? Any claim requires evidence, the claim doesn't have to be necessarily extraordinary, UFO reports had no connection to masculinity, only to befuddlement.

Tom M
9/23/2020 05:33:38 am

But as I understand it, you’ve moved off Dean for possibly J Allen Hynek as your protagonist? Do you really feel he was a closeted gay man? I would caution against such assumptions. Consider our favorite cable channel, History and “Project Blue Book”. Where J Allen Hynek is a fighter pilot getting in dog fights with UFO’s. Or he’s an Arctic explorer searching for his partner that’s been abducted by aliens. Where Russian lesbian spies monitor his every move. Project Blue Book makes J Allen Hynek into this hipster with a hot wife with possible lesbian tendencies. Which I’m sure scores well with heterosexual male viewers but has absolutely no basis in reality. I picture J Allen Hynek as an intelligent if somewhat dull scientist. Not unlike Stanton Friedman who was on the other side of the UFO fence. Not nearly as handsome or interesting as Project Blue Book makes him out to be. And that might very well be why his biographer had so little to say about his early years. We’re not all beautiful people with interesting back stories such as James Dean. And therein lies the problem with using real people to tell a story. Everyone brings their own interpretation on real individuals that are in the public domain. Unlike fictional characters who can be whoever you want them to be.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/23/2020 12:15:43 pm

No, not at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I am organizing the chapters as a panorama, so each one covers a period in the life of various people--Joe McCarthy, J. Allen Hynek, Shirley Jackson, L. Ron Hubbard, etc. A couple of people are the focus of each chapter, with James Dean appearing in each chapter as the point of view character driving the narrative forward. Each chapter is unified thematically, and then all of the chapters together build toward a story. Al the pieces therefore lock together.

The material on sexuality is only one part of the whole. And, no, I am not trying to argue anything about Hynek's sexuality. He doesn't figure into that part of the story.

Reply
Tom M
9/23/2020 11:36:00 am

If your dead set on having a real life protagonist for your book that lived during that time. Have you considered Howard Hughes? Young, handsome, rich, famous, bisexual, eccentric. He checks all the boxes. He testified before an angry congress. It’s rumored that he was flown to Roswell In 1947 but wanted to take charge and run the operation himself. The military said no. His fascination was from an aviation standpoint on how the craft worked and not a philosophical one. And there’s scandal too. Hughes was rumored to be involved with the murder of gay actor David Bacon who was allegedly blackmailing Hughes over a gay affair. This according to Bacon’s wife Greta Keller, a lesbian singer/actress herself. Who admitted later in life that her marriage to Bacon was a lavender one.

You have to admit, there’s a lot to work with here. And due to Hughes drug addiction, paranoia, and bizarre behavior later in life, just about every theory could be plausible. Infinitely more interesting and salacious than J Allen Hynek. But I’m guessing you really want to write a book about James Dean and are looking for an angle that hasn’t been done before. Trying to find something new to say. And that’s fine too.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/23/2020 06:55:06 pm

Tom, I think you may have misunderstood. My book is nonfiction. It needs real people because it's true. Because it is narrative nonfiction, I am preferring to tell the story through the lives of people to avoid the impersonal listing of facts. I chose James Dean in the end (he wasn't the protagonist for the first or second draft of my outline, as you recall) because his life has an end point within the time period, represents a significant turning point in popular culture, and creates a dramatic climax-cum-apotheosis that will allow the narrative to achieve Aristotelian catharsis rather than peter out. It's simple storytelling.

Reply
Tom M
9/25/2020 10:45:44 pm

I have totally and completely misunderstood your book. And for that I sincerely apologize Jason. Evidently I’ve been watching too much pseudo history. I was confused as to how you were going to tie your three main themes together. Your explanation makes perfect sense.

Let me make clear. My rant on Howard Hughes was for a possible literary reference. I wasn’t implying Roswell was real. Rather that Hughes could be linked to the Roswell myth. Even if it’s tenuously at best. You certainly don’t need my help. You have a clear vision on what you want to accomplish.

I look forward to reading your book.

Kent
9/26/2020 05:30:33 pm

On 9/26/2020 Coast To Coast Am will be/was some crazy nonsense about Howard Hughes.

EDWARD LOPEZ
9/23/2020 04:42:40 pm

Some goofballs always have to reveal their ignorance by saying something that's not true because the facts undermine their ignorance.

"It’s rumored that he was flown to Roswell In 1947 but wanted to take charge and run the operation himself. The military said no."

Prove with evidence as your comments without it are useless and worthless.

FYI: No UFO/saucer crashed near Roswell nor anywhere for that matter.

Reply
Kent
9/23/2020 10:21:35 pm

Your FYI is an extraordinary claim, and you [apparently don't] know what they say about extraordinary claims.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/science/2015/12/06/50-years-later-the-Kecksburg-Westmoreland-County-UFO-is-identified-probably/stories/201512060146

Asking someone to prove that a rumor existed? That's a pretty tough ask. All that was claimed was that there was a rumor.

Reply
t'mara
9/30/2020 12:16:50 am

havent men always been plunged into disputes (that are really
over) effeminacy and weakness? i dont think masculinity was redefined after the war years. it's never been clearly understood.

Reply

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          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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