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Thursday Grab Bag: Jewish Pyramid Conspiracies, Atheist Spirituality, and Bergier on Lovecraft

9/11/2014

46 Comments

 
I have three brief topics for today.

An Alleged Jewish Pyramid Conspiracy
First, I don’t really have much to say about, but figure I should mention, yesterday’s story in the Jerusalem Post reporting claims by Egyptian heritage activist Amir Gamal that Israeli operatives are infiltrating archaeological teams in order to fabricate evidence that the Jews built the pyramids of Egypt. According to Gamal, the Israelis are plotting to identify Pharaoh Sheshonq I with the Biblical King Shishak (a rather common identification made long ago and supported by a stela at Megiddo) in order to claim the gold of Egypt as the Temple treasure stolen by Shishak during his invasion of Judah (2 Chronicles 12:9). Similar claims have popped up over the last few years, particularly after the fall of Pres. Hosni Mubarak and the ouster of Antiquities Minister Zahi Hawass, largely due to nationalism and continued popular resentment over what many Egyptians and Islamists see as the country’s too-friendly relationship with Israel.
Sam Harris Finds Religion... of a Sort
Second, since I repeatedly discuss the way the ancient astronaut theory and even fringe archaeology have been overtaken by a quasi-spiritual quest for transcendence—whether through communion with space brothers, drug-fueled romps in the spirit dimension, or the discovery of the “truth” about Jesus and the sacred feminine—it is only right that I report that New Atheist Sam Harris has joined with them in declaring his newfound belief that spirituality is essential for a fulfilled life. According to a book review in this week’s eSkeptic, Harris has declared an idiosyncratic form of Buddhism essentially the one true scientific religion, praising Buddhism for its atheist spirituality and writing in favor of atheists adopting meditation techniques to achieve the negation of the self and contact with the true essence of consciousness beyond the illusion of the unified self. Harris’s version of Buddhism is apparently unique to him, and he is presenting himself as a spiritual guru for achieving transcendence.

I haven’t read the book and can’t comment on whether Harris makes a compelling case that such negation of the self is either rational or desirable (this would seem to be a value judgment since an argument could be made that preserving a sense of self is more fulfilling), but I find it fascinating that Harris achieves his results through the same combination of meditation and drug ingestion that Graham Hancock uses to enter the spirit dimension and meet with demons and angels. When people as diverse as lost civilization advocates, ancient astronaut theorists, and atheist activists are all working toward the same spiritual ends, it certainly must say something about a certain reaction occurring in our culture right now, one that I think is reflected also in the rise of evangelical Christianity and the creationist movement that so closely parallels fringe archaeology. It’s a cultural revitalization movement in embryo, struggling to find a new way to reconstruct the old pillars of culture.

I would challenge, incidentally, the idea that humans have an innate longing for spiritual transcendence. Some people might, but certainly not everyone, and the modern notion that individuals should have a special and individualized relation to the divine (or, for atheists, the transcendent non-self) is a rather recent phenomenon. Through most of recorded history, so far as we know religion was rather transactional (sacrifice X in order to receive Y), and in the past most religious rites were entrusted to specialists. Individuals in many societies had only an indirect relationship to “spirituality” as we think of it. I’m reading a book about medieval England right now that noted that during the six years of the interdict the pope imposed on England during the reign of King John there was not a single recorded complaint that mass had been suspended, or that anyone cared much for the supposed spiritual consequences of it. As I understand it, in the West the idea of having an ongoing and continuous individual relationship with the divine (as opposed to rare and extraordinary experiences more typical of Classical paganism) is a Protestant innovation, and the idea of the desirability of the individual achieving transcendence is still more recent.

Just as Harris earlier argued that middle class American morality was objectively correct and ordained by the laws of physics, he also seems to think that modern American notions of desirable and effective spiritual goals are also provable by neuroscience and physics. To the contrary, I think he is rationalizing culturally specific expressions of faith particular to the perceived needs of this time and this place.

Bergier’s Encounters with Lovecraft
Finally, I wanted to call your attention to a paragraph I’ve added to my article about Jacques Bergier, Louis Pauwels, and H. P. Lovecraft. As you will recall, one of the criticisms I’ve received about my Cult of Alien Gods is the claim that there is little evidence that Jacques Bergier’s and Louis Pauwels’s Morning of the Magicians was influenced by H. P. Lovecraft in the development of its version of the ancient astronaut theory. In the comments on a previous blog post, EP asked about Jacques Bergier’s letters to Weird Tales in the 1930s, and this prompted me to collect a bit more evidence that I did not previously have access to that demonstrates that Bergier wasn’t just familiar with Lovecraft prior to Morning of the Magicians but that Lovecraft shaped Bergier’s perception of ancient mysteries.

Here’s what I’ve added:
[Bergier] discovered the works of Lovecraft in Weird Tales at the Gibert-Joseph book store in the early 1930s, and two letters from him were published in Weird Tales in 1936 and 1937. The first praises Lovecraft and other weird authors for their work. The second makes plain the debt Bergier owed to Lovecraft for shaping his cosmic thinking: Lovecraft, he wrote in honor of the author's March 1937 death, "has been so well received in France, because he was crying out against the absurdity of a scientific civilization encroaching upon man. [...] The passing of Lovecraft seems to me to mark an end of an epoch in the history of American imaginative fiction." Both Bergier and Pauwels, inspired by Lovecraft's philosophy and vision, published some of the first French editions of Lovecraft's work. In 1955, Bergier published an edition of Lovecraft translated by Bernard Noël in which he included his own preface, titled (in French) "Lovecraft: The Great Genius from Elsewhere." This same piece was recycled later as the first story in Planetè, the magazine published by Pauwels and Bergier.
Bergier was a student of chemical engineering in the 1930s, but it was his reading of weird fiction in the 1930s that caused him to begin an interest in alchemy and thus ancient mysteries. In fact, according to Bergier himself, he took up the mantle of alchemy only in 1938--after he had already absorbed Weird Tales and decided Lovecraft was a genius, one whose vision would shape his own. This is why, in Morning, Bergier cites Lovecraft by name, calls him the father of science fiction, and declares him “the greatest poet and champion of the theory of parallel universes.” In 1975, describing how science fiction defined his worldview in life, Bergier all but paraphrased Lovecraft. Bergier stated (as I translate) that science fiction offers “victory over time, over space, over the hostility of the universe, victory gained through technique.” Compare that to Lovecraft, for whom weird fiction allowed him “to achieve, momentarily, the illusion of some strange suspension or violation of the galling limitations of time, space, and natural law…” as he wrote in “Notes on Writing Weird Fiction.” Since we know Bergier considered Lovecraft a science fiction author, there can really be no question how much he owed to “the great genius” who shaped his conception of time, space, and—yes—ancient aliens.
46 Comments
VorJack
9/11/2014 05:21:28 am

Thanks for your comments on Harris. I think you've just about nailed it. That said, I think the idea of personal transcendence is an old one that is commonly found among the Christian mystics. They would describe their personal transcendence and loss of the self as becoming "one with God," but the basic experience sounds the same.

My guess is that there is a physical explanation behind the experience, and that different traditions have placed the experience into their own framework.

Reply
EP
9/11/2014 06:45:31 am

"claims by Egyptian heritage activist Amir Gamal that Jewish operatives are infiltrating archaeological teams in order to fabricate evidence that the Jews built the pyramids of Egypt."

Jason, I would strongly recommed changing "Jewish operatives" to "Israeli operatives". Not only because we are talking about an aleged state action (and such conflation is potentially offensive to non-Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews), but because the article itself reports Gamal as alleging that "Israel does not send its own Jewish archeological teams to Egypt".

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/11/2014 06:52:42 am

Point taken, and wording changed, though I'm not sure Gamal sees much of a difference.

Reply
EP
9/11/2014 06:52:58 am

"in the West the idea of having an ongoing and continuous individual relationship with the divine (as opposed to rare and extraordinary experiences more typical of Classical paganism) is a Protestant innovation"

More precisely, the idea that such an ongoing and continuous relationship is desirable and attainable for ordinary laypeople is a recent innovation. It has long been seen as a goal by many mystic and monasitc individuals and groups, (and not just in Christianity). Protestantism's innovation was, here as elsewhere, "democratizing" this aspect of religious life.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/11/2014 07:21:44 am

Yes, indeed there have always been individuals who were religious specialists and devoted themselves to such matters of faith. As you note, the recent innovation is that this should extend beyond specialists to the general laity.

Reply
666
9/11/2014 07:20:54 am

>>>during the reign of King John there was not a single recorded complaint that mass had been suspended<<<

This was at a time when churchgoing was mandatory, only repealed during the 19th century.


Reply
lurkster
9/11/2014 07:29:42 am

Zahi Hawass was ousted?!?! Damn... I missed that tidbit despite following the Arab Spring fallout somewhat closely.

Reply
Paul
9/11/2014 07:44:11 am

If you want to buy Egyptian artifacts talk to Zahi.

Reply
Clint Knapp
9/11/2014 07:45:52 am

As a personal friend of Mubarak and a state official, Zahi was doomed whether it made sense to oust an archaeologist or not. You should hear George Noory complain about all the secret things he thinks Zahi stole from under the Sphinx that we'll never get to see now that he's not in charge of antiquities.

Noory explicitly states that he "remote viewed" Zahi and knows he's hiding the secrets of Atlantis.

Reply
lurkster
9/11/2014 07:54:14 am

I always found Hawass' enthusiasm and passion quite entertaining - despite his rough edges. Noory... not so much.

Clint Knapp
9/11/2014 08:27:57 am

I've always enjoyed Hawass's work, even when he's had to resort to appearing in questionable American television programs to get some exposure (See; Chasing Mummies).

His stalwart defense of Egyptian archeology and rejection of the fringe nutbaggery that dominates the tourist trade is rather refreshing. If the man could be a bit acerbic at times, I can understand why. It can't be an easy job trying to maintain a professional atmosphere in a field where so many people would rather denigrate the achievements of the people responsible for the sites under his purview.

EP
9/11/2014 07:31:40 pm

Dr. Zahi Hawass is a hero and a legend and a true old-school pimp daddy.

The AA crew should be rounded up and condemned to indentured servitude as manual laborers under Dr. Hawass's heel.

Paul
9/12/2014 09:29:01 am

"His stalwart defense of Egyptian archeology and rejection of the fringe nutbaggery that dominates the tourist trade is rather refreshing. If the man could be a bit acerbic at times, I can understand why. It can't be an easy job trying to maintain a professional atmosphere in a field where so many people would rather denigrate the achievements of the people responsible for the sites under his purview."

--Now that is funny--

Gary
9/13/2014 12:46:08 am

Hawass is a bad tempered, self aggrandizing, Jewish conspiracy spouting jerk who was disliked by most of his colleagues.

EP
9/13/2014 11:25:38 am

I agree that Hawass's statements about Jews and Israel are factually false and morally problematic, but read in context they are not enough to condemn him as a "Jew-hater".

EP
9/11/2014 07:29:44 am

"EP noted asked about"

Which is it, then? :)

"Both Bergier and Pauwels, inspired by Lovecraft's philosophy and vision, published some of the first French editions of Lovecraft's work."

I think the situation here is a lot more complicated. While is is certainly true of Bergier, I am not entirely sure it is true of Pauwels (at least to anywhere near the same extent). Pauwels was, however, strongly influenced by Gurdjieff, having spent time at Gurdjieff's Swiss center in the late 1940s. (Pauwels went on to write a book on Gurdjieff.) I think that Gurdjieff doesn't get nearly enough credit for his contributions to the AA theory and related fringe ideas. After all, right around the time Pauwels was at his center, Gurdjieff was finalizing the manuscript of Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson (his most influential work). Chapter II begins as follows:

"It was in the year 223 after the creation of the world, by objective time-calculation, or, as it would be said here on the "Earth," in the year 1921 after the birth of Christ. Through the Universe flew the ship Karnak of the "transspace" communication. It was flying from the spaces "Assooparatsata," that is, from the spaces of the "Milky Way," from the planet Karatas to the solar system "Pandetznokh," the sun of which is also called the "Pole Star." On the said "transspace" ship was Beelzebub with his kinsmen and near attendants. He was on his way to the planet Revozvradendr to a special conference in which he had consented to take part, at the request of his friends of long standing. Only the remembrance of these old friendships had constrained him to accept this invitation, since he was no longer young, and so lengthy a journey, and the vicissitudes inseparable from it, were by no means an easy task for one of his years. Only a little before this journey Beelzebub had returned home to the planet Karatas where he had received his arising and far from which, on account of circumstances independent of his own essence, he had passed many years of his existence in conditions not proper to his nature."

Note that this works was originally announced in the early 1930s, thus predating the UFO craze of the late 1940s. The outline published in The Herald of Coming Good (1933, I believe) already speaks of "trans-space ships" and makes Beelzebub a recurring visitor to Earth since ancient times. (And this is just a sample of the goodies contained in that book.) The whole thing reads a lot like it's trying to be both Voltaire's Macromegas and The Book of Mormon at once.

Reply
EP
9/11/2014 11:23:01 am

From the 1933 outline of Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson:

2. Why Beelzebub was on our Solar System.
3. The reason of the delay in the falling of the trans-space ship "Karnak".
...
5. The system of Archangel Hariton.
6. Perpetual Motion.
...
8. The impudent brat Hassein, Beelzebub's Grandson, dared to call us "slugs".
9. The cause of the genesis of Moon.
10. Why "men" are not men.
...
15 . The first descent of Beelzebub on the planet "Earth".
...
17. The arch-absurd! Beelzebub affirms that our Sun neither lights nor heats.
...
19. Beelzebub's tales about his second descent on the planet "Earth".
20. The third flight of Beelzebub to the planet "Earth".
21. The first visit of Beelzebub to India.
22. Beelzebub in Thibet for the first time.
23. The fourth sojourn of Beelzebub in person on the planet "Earth".
24. Beelzebub's flight to the planet Earth for the fifth time.
25. The very Saintly Ashiata Shiemash, Sent from Above to the Earth.
...
27. The kind of organisation for man's existence created by the very Saintly Labours of Ashiata Shiemash.
28. The chief culprit of the destruction of all the very Saintly Labours of Ashiata Shiemash.
29. The fruits of ancient civilisations and the blossom of the contemporary.
...
31. The sixth and last sojourn of Beelzebub on the planet " Earth ".
...
35. The alteration of the foreseen course of falling of the trans-space ship "Karnak".
..
39. The Holy planet "Purgatory".
40. Beelzebub's tale of the way in which people learnt and again forgot about the fundamental cosmic law "Eptaparabarshmock".
...
43. Beelzebub's opinion about the process of man's periodal and reciprocal destruction.
...
45. In the opinion of Beelzebub the extracting by man of electricity from Nature and its employment for his needs is one of the causes of the shor­tening of man's life.

Reply
Shane Sullivan
9/11/2014 09:07:13 am

I think you hit the nail on the head in the section about Sam Harris, when you talk about transcendence and how it's just not that important to everyone. It's quite presumptuous for him to claim that anyone who doesn't embrace this atheist spirituality is missing something.

My sister's husband, for instance, is an atheist (or at least a materialist) with a grudge against religion, yet he's also a well-adjusted member of society with a strong sense of family and community. My brother's wife, on the other hand, is a Korean Buddhist, and in the seven years I've known her I think I've heard her talk about Buddhism once, indirectly--she mentioned it was Buddha's birthday--and meditation zero times.

They were raised about as differently as can be, but one thing they have in common is a notable lack of all-consuming significance placed on spiritual completion.

Reply
Shane Sullivan
9/11/2014 11:13:43 am

Addendum: Good for Sam Harris for doing something he finds fulfilling, though.

Reply
EP
9/11/2014 11:24:08 am

Assuming he's not just trying to sell books...

charlie
9/11/2014 03:31:02 pm

So, self proclaimed atheist Sammy Harris has found hos own "spirituality"? Well, I fail to see how that is news. Yeah, I am an old heathen/pagan, and I would never follow Harris, Dawkins or any of the other "big name" atheists. Why? I left ALL religion because every religions lays down idiotic rules that must be followed. These so called "new atheists" are quite the same and if you want to think for yourself, control your own life, you cannot do that AND follow any of these clowns.
As for the "peaceful" Buddhists, just look at what the Buddhists in Myanmar are doing to the Rohingya, then get back and tell me how very "peaceful" they are. YES, I do know that not all Buddhists are like those in Myanmar, but how many "common" people do?
Just my 2 cents worth...............about $0.000000247116 when adjusted for inflation.

Reply
EP
9/11/2014 04:05:18 pm

"YES, I do know that not all Buddhists are like those in Myanmar, but how many "common" people do?"

You're "special", then? :)

Reply
charlie
9/12/2014 04:12:42 pm

@EP, I have no idea who appointed you as arbiter of everything in the comment section here. You never let anybody make any comment without your additions. I never made any mention of being special in any way.
I am just an old working class man who has had a rather full interesting life. I may not have your educational background, you come across as being "highly educated" school/book wise. Life experience is worth more than just books/school.
Criticize me all you want, I have been through more in this life than you can possibly imagine and I never have considered myself anything other than a normal working class man. I have no pretensions about myself. You on the other hand seem to hold yourself in a very, very high regard as being quite superior to those like me who have no advanced degrees from some college or university. Well sir, I DID attend a university; the University of Science, Music, and Culture; aka USMC.
You can go ride your high horse off to where ever you wish, I'll keep living my life as I please though I may "suffer" for lacking your great and mighty input.

EP
9/12/2014 05:56:06 pm

Perhaps I misunderstood your comment. Did you mean "how many *other* common people"? If so, then I apologize for the confusion, but you should have said what you meant. Besides, what I said was a light-hearted remark in no way meant to imply anything about your character or to compare you to myself or anybody else. I'm happy to clarify that, but you had no reason to read it into my comment.

"I have been through more in this life than you can possibly imagine"

Perhaps. But (a) you don't know what I can and cannot imagine and (b) you don't know what I've been through. I've been shot at, for example - bet you didn't expect that one.

"Well sir, I DID attend a university; the University of Science, Music, and Culture; aka USMC."

I see what you did there... You know what Eleanor Roosevelt said about the Marines? I always wondered if she banged any. What do you think?

"You can go ride your high horse off to where ever you wish, I'll keep living my life as I please though I may "suffer" for lacking your great and mighty input."

I hope that you do. For real. But what does this have to do with what I said?

Gunn
9/11/2014 03:38:52 pm

Jason says: "As I understand it, in the West the idea of having an ongoing and continuous individual relationship with the divine (as opposed to rare and extraordinary experiences more typical of Classical paganism) is a Protestant innovation, and the idea of the desirability of the individual achieving transcendence is still more recent."

Wrong, Jason. Having an ongoing and continuous individual relationship with The Divine is certainly not a Protestant innovation, or a recent thing. I don't know how you can say this. The entire Bible is about an individual's relationship with The Divine! From Abraham's would-be sacrifice to Acts, Chapter 2, which details the infilling of God's Holy Spirit.

I don't like saying this, Jason, but you might be more lost than you realize. A baaaad lost sheep. God wants serious relationships with individuals, and He always has. OT characters and NT characters had ongoing relationships with The Divine. People today can have a relationship with The Divine. God's Holy Spirit will indwell a human. Better to indwelt by God's Spirit than demonic spirits.

Jason, maybe you should stick to history more, rather than getting involved with attacking God, the notion of God, Christians and Christianity, and trying to explain to a skeptical readership how a relationship with the Almighty is what...imaginary?

An ongoing relationship with God is no more difficult to believe in than believing in God Himself, and millions of people believe in God, and in God's goodness.

People can commune with God, just as they can commune with demons. People can be indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God, just as someone else can be indwelt with demons.

There is a wickedness, and a fear, to avoid.

Reply
Only Me
9/11/2014 05:01:37 pm

"People can be indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God, just as someone else can be indwelt with demons."

Just for clarification, you're not suggesting Jason is "indwelt with demons" are you? It struck me as peculiar that you would use *people* when talking about the Holy Spirit, then *someone else* when talking about demons.

Reply
EP
9/11/2014 06:21:30 pm

"God wants serious relationships with individuals, and He always has."

He just says that in order to get in your pants. But will he be there to help you raise the child? No way! :)

Reply
Not the Comte de Saint Germain
9/11/2014 07:26:19 pm

Jason's remarks may be exaggerated, but they do not strike me as entirely incorrect, partly because not long ago I read something along the same lines. It's from the blog of an ex-Catholic (John C. Durham) interested in religious studies, saying that Richard Dawkins has made faulty assumptions about religion based partly on his Protestant cultural background:

"Dawkins fails to appreciate the fundamental difference between Protestantism and Catholicism. Protestantism is essentially about personal religion, about individuals being in a personal relationship with God, whereas Catholicism has essentially been about social religion, about the Church being in a relationship with God and individual believers being part of the Church.

"In Catholicism, God has not revealed Himself doctrinally by speaking to lone individuals on discrete occasions, but by speaking to the Church over time, over the whole Christian era. Thus, when popes have made any given doctrine official, they have claimed to be passing on not something that God told them personally one day, but something that the Church has gradually formulated over the centuries of its collective engagement with God."

Other Catholics or Catholic authorities may disagree with Durham's statements, but I get the impression from other sources as well. Catholicism emphasizes the communal more strongly than Protestantism does, and Protestantism emphasizes the individual more than Catholicism does.

Pre-Christian Mediterranean religions were even more communal in their focus, and when they describe direct interactions between gods and humans, it's usually in short-lived mystical episodes. You implicitly raise the patriarchs and prophets in the Hebrew Bible as counterexamples. My impression is that these stories emphasize that the patriarchs and prophets are intermediaries between God and his chosen people. Most of the prophetic books condemn Israel for failing to adhere to the covenant with God, and not much of their text describes the stories of the prophets themselves.

I don't believe Jason is trying to condemn religion. He is questioning Harris' assumptions based on his understanding of how religions have historically developed. You assume Jason is attacking Christianity and ask him to "stick to history." If he's attacking anybody, it's Harris (an atheist, remember?) and trying to provide historical context to his claims.

Reply
EP
9/11/2014 07:37:48 pm

Jason's remarks contain no judgment of religion at all - neither explicit, nor implicit. Anyone who fails to see that fails basic reading comprehension.

Gunn, I'd recommend you stick to wind turbines, except you're not really competent at that either.

Gunn Sinclair link
9/12/2014 04:23:45 am

Yes, it may be true that Jason is not trying to condemn religion. But I think he is, and I think he tries to make fun of and make light of religion regularly, as part of his "thang." Don't you know by now that it is part of his "thang" as a skeptic to regularly and oh-so-smoothly make stabs at anything to do with a sincere faith in a real God?

Look back through his posts and you will see that he puts religion and God in the same bag he labels UFO/Alien/Garbage/Teenage/horror, etc. Jason likes to take that fabric and twist and turn it to make religion and God as unseemly as this other nonsense he regularly discharges onto this blog. This is a skeptic's blog...remember.

Extended Problem, I don't know what your problem is. Only a dumb ass would make fun of clean, renewable energy. Right now my new technology is being assessed and analyzed for possible commercialization through a major US university that works extensively with wind energy. Try not to be a non-Biblical ass, okay? Hee-haw! (Or is that a jack-ass?) How dare you question my audacity.

EP
9/12/2014 04:47:25 am

"Only a dumb ass would make fun of clean, renewable energy."

Perhaps. But I'm merely pointing out that your windmill idea isn't something that you should "stick to" in light of your failure as a religious scholar. Because you fail at that as well.

"Right now my new technology is being assessed and analyzed for possible commercialization through a major US university that works extensively with wind energy."

What a deluded man you are.

"Try not to be a non-Biblical ass, okay? Hee-haw! (Or is that a jack-ass?) How dare you question my audacity."

That's, like, .-tier gibberish. You feeling alright, mang?

J.A Dickey
9/18/2014 08:59:48 am

EP --- Skepticism's set theory overlap with Atheism allows
simple cut and dried opinions, observations and conclusions.

EP --- Over the past 500 years there have been between 20
to 100 significant Protestant Bibles. Sometimes a statement
taken to be a basic truth by one Protestant faction is rejected
by another faction that is very similar. Catholicism has had
perhaps 3 to 5 equally significant Bibles over 1500 years. I
am not an expert on Eastern Orthodox.

As a very loose rule of thumb, Gunn's humble opinion on
the social covenant the Creator Being had with the people
of Moses before, during & after his excursion up Mt. Sinai
tends to be correct. Protestantism of the Calvinist variety
made it a point to carefully read the Old + New Testaments.
Catholic names were less opted for, the young were often
given Old Testament names. This also has a parallel to the
revival of the Classical aesthetic styles of Greece + Rome.

Clint Knapp
9/11/2014 10:35:31 pm

Gunn, does the fact that you never rise to defend your faith against the one person here who actually does routinely level attacks on Christianity (666) while launching into tirades any time Jason even benignly mentions Christian belief ever strike you as hypocritical?

Even your own example, Abraham, is not a directly Christian commentary but a Jewish one which largely concerns itself with issues of inheritance and establishing a patriarchal line of authority descended from Abraham. His relationship with God is almost entirely related to this issue, and does not so much denote advocacy of an individual relationship with God (though one could be extrapolated in a less literal reading of the text) as it does the divine selection of Abraham and his people as God's Chosen.

Reply
Gunn
9/12/2014 04:31:16 am

Clint. You sound like a dumb ass, too. I told 666 that only a fool would take on that moniker. I might add that only a fool would bring to the world's attention the fact that someone is using a pen-name on a blog. Not that I care, but what special joy do you have in announcing to the world that my real name is Bob Voyles? Is Clint Knapp your real name...and what does it matter? I think most readers and contributors here use a screen name. My guess is that you might be a dumb ass. Just to be clear (Only Me...ha! ha!), I'm talking about those little donkey-like creatures...they don't seem to be very smart compared to people.

EP
9/12/2014 04:39:29 am

I thought you real name was Lee White Fox :)

Oh, wait. That's your pen name:

https://openlibrary.org/publishers/Hallmark_Emporium

Clint Knapp
9/12/2014 05:54:33 am

You might notice yours is the only mention of your name on this entire page, and that I addressed you by your alias, Gunn. You might also notice that when honestly questioned and provided with a sound rebuttal of your evidence free of judgment, you are the one who decided to resort to name calling and declarations regarding other people's intelligence.

Bravo, Gunn. I guess you really showed me.

For the record, yes, this is my real name. I use it because I do not feel the need to hide behind a wall of anonymity to separate myself from my words and actions.

EP
9/12/2014 10:07:07 am

Even I refrained from mentioning your real name out of respect for your choice. Even though you label your own photos with "Robert Voyles (also known as Gunn Sinclair)". Also, you keep linking to the website dedicated to your joke of a turbine and your pseudo-archaeological follies, where you use your real name. I'm confused why you're bringing this up.

For the record, I choose *not* to use my real name because I do not wish to deal with special snowflakes who may over-react to me calling them out.

Gunn
9/14/2014 03:54:15 am

"I do not feel the need to hide behind a wall of anonymity to separate myself from my words and actions." - Mark Twain. (Not really.)

Also, some folks will suggest people with beards may be hiding something. (No, not in the beard.)

J.A Dickey
9/18/2014 09:18:53 am

I did much worse... like Mr. Steve StC i even put an ancestor's
name online. I claimed a bloodline connection to the fellow
who hid two of his wife's relatives in barrels at about 1690!
The two priests in question then blessed the couple and
their descendants. I am not a close relative to the guy from
the state of Georgia who got his poetry happily reviewed in
1960, nor his son Christopher who worked for Newsweek.
The odds are that Theophilus Dickey, Abe Lincoln's close
friend, is sorta rather close to me in terms of being a cousin.
Given the fame James from Georgia had much more recently,
were he closely related to me, we'd all have been at his family gatherings. I also said the town in the North of Ireland my dad's
ancestors came from is about 30 miles away from the one that
William McKinley's ancestors did. I also have a connection to
the Kennedy family through their marriages, I do have a JFK
connection, and perhaps a close one by blood or marriage to
Chester A. Arthur. To me, FDR is more distant, save for a very
Dutch ancestor in New Amsterdam, or maybe the women who
married into his father;s male bloodline. Even Barack Obama
is a distant cousin of both Harry S. Truman + FDR. As to Bill
Clinton, if he's at all related to Grace Kelly, then he and I are kin!


http://www.state.il.us/court/SupremeCourt/JusticeArchive/Bio_Dickey.asp


Tara Jordan link
9/11/2014 07:55:07 pm

Jason.

Harris has been an intolerant bigot from a very long time.In light of the aftermaths of the 9/11 attacks,he took a radical approach by supporting the use of torture,ethnic profiling,extraordinary rendition & illegal detention.

I personally used to enjoy his work when he primarily dealt with rational criticism of organized religions,before he started engaging in issues he knows absolutely nothing about, & revealed himself as a despicable little bigot & a trumpet for war.Although Harris was not alone,soon enough Richard Dawkins also jumped on the hysterical bandwagon of Arabs & Muslims phobia.

During one of the Beyond Belief debates (in 2006,I think) one scholar ridiculed Harris with statistics on terrorism.Harris claimed that Muslims were the main perpetrators of terrorism and religious/political violence,statistics proved it otherwise.

His views on Eastern spirituality also reveals his hypocrisy and incoherence.Harris is neither a scientist nor an academic,he is the Pamela Geller of the skeptic industry.

From the horse`s mouth:
"Some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them."
On torture:
"We should say we don't do it,we should say it's reprehensible and then do it anyway.....".
Sam Harris.

Sam Harris's Faith in Eastern Spirituality and Muslim Torture by John Gorenfeld http://tinyurl.com/18r

Reply
EP
9/11/2014 08:18:55 pm

Honestly, I'd chalk it up to desire for popularity/publicity at any cost more than anything. His narrow-mindedness is a byproduct of his extreme arrogance and equally extreme partisanship. As for the quality of his work, I'm unaware of anything he's written that neither has been done better by someone else nor is pretty lowbrow even by bestseller standards.

While I don't subscribe to any of the views you mention in quite so vulgar a form as he does, they definitely can be held by people who are neither narrow-minded nor bigoted. It is not outrageous to suggest that the legal system wasn't really designed for "war on terror" (regardless of what you think about the war itself). And it is a lot more difficult to oppose torture unconditionally and consistently on ethical grounds than many people realize.

Reply
J.A Dickey
9/18/2014 09:26:46 am

With my luck I may be closer related to William McKinley
who was not fond of or praising the practice of "waterboarding'
circa the Spanish-American War than i am Richard Cheney
who delighted in the ability to 'break' people down. Dick Cheney's
mother may be a distant kinswoman of mine. I am upset over
the unconstitutionality of our regrettable tactics, I see a problem
over time being sadly accumulative. I did not create the paranoia.

expat link
9/12/2014 04:28:22 am

Zahi Hawass is a jew-hating, self-important scoundrel.

Reply
Paul
9/12/2014 09:30:20 am

He is not a good man.

Reply
EP
9/12/2014 10:46:29 am

My understanding is that Hawass has indeed expressed strongly anti-Israeli sentiments and gone so in a way that is .

The views he expressed, which I mostly disagree with, are not only quite mainstream in his society, but shared by many in the West who would justly resent being labeled as anti-Semites.

Basically, if you refuse to recognize Israel, then it is perfectly sensible to speak, as he did, of "Jewish Palestine" or "Palestinian Jews". Certainly more accurate less reprehensible than something like "Zionist entity".

When he said

"The only thing that the Jews have learned from history is methods of tyranny and torment - so much so that they have become artists in this field. They have done to the Palestinians what Pharaoh and Sargon did to the Jews..."

you may accuse him of speaking irresponsibly, or of exaggeration unbecoming for a historian, but he is speaking of a phenomenon attested to by many Jewish Israeli intellectuals and public figures (namely, the culture becoming less cosmopolitan and more hawkish over time).

This does not make him a Jew-hater. Especially not in a society where expressing even tolerance of Israel is problematic. Moreover, even Jason made an analogous conflation in this post (since corrected) - surely no one would accuse Jason of anti-Semitism! (Incidentally, leaving "jew" uncapitalized like you did is also offensive to some people and a trademark of old-fashioned anti-Semitism. But you're not a Jew-hater, I'm sure!)

Also, keep in mind that Hawass was a very visible political figure for many years. His administrative and academic work is in the field that faces enormous dangers from the Islamic and anti-Israeli hardliners, who were ready to jump at any excuse to condemn the secular, Westernized field of antiquities, with unpredictable results. Recall what the Taliban did to the Bamyan Buddhas. For Hawass, and this is hard for us to fully grasp, this is a real threat to Egyptian relics (worst-case scenario, but far from merely hypothetical). As a political figure in charge of the antiquities, he had to do whatever it takes to make sure this doesn't happen.

Reply
EP
9/12/2014 05:42:42 pm

Sorry, first sentence should end with "and done so in a way that is unworthy of the man".


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    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
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      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
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      • Blunders in the Sky
      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
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      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
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    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
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      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
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    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
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        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
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          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
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          • Leon of Pella
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          • Famine Stela
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        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
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          • The Secret of Creation
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          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
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        • Hesiod's Theogony
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        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
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        • Tacitus' Germania
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        • Aelian's Various Histories
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        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
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          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
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          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
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          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
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        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
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        • The Interglacial Period
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      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
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        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
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          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
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          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
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        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
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        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
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        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
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        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
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      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
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      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
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