Two New Articles Discuss UFO Demons in the Defense Department

5/23/2019

This week, two very different articles both discussed the same bonkers idea, namely that a significant faction in the U.S. Department of Defense believes that the country is battling demons, poltergeists, psychic mind storms, and other refugees from bad horror movies. A Den of Geek article pulled together a number of statements from the past year given by various players orbiting around ESP investigator, former U.S. government paranormal researcher and To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science executive Hal Puthoff to the effect that the U.S. government has been investigating what one former employee of Robert Bigelow’s UFO research company called “bizarre creatures, poltergeist activity, invisible entities, orbs of light, animal and human injuries and much more,” all under the cover of UFO studies.

According to Den of Geek, Luis Elizondo of To the Stars alleges that there were two different Pentagon programs. The broader was Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications, which explored all manner of paranormal and demonic activity. Within AAWSAP was the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, which focused on UFOs. According to Elizondo, Christian conservatives shut down AAWSAP for fear of demons, leaving only AATIP, which was less likely to summon Satan accidentally. And I am writing this as though any of this is a normal thing for the military to do. If even half of these claims are true, we need to purge the military of all its paranormal-believing idiots.

While it is disturbing to see all of the information laid out in one article, we have long known that Hal Puthoff, working variously for the government, Robert Bigelow, and To the Stars, has consistently pushed the government to explore supernatural phenomena. Bigelow folded his research into the Skinwalker Ranch “phenomena” into the research done for the Pentagon as part of its UFO tracking program, for which Bigelow was the primary contractor. Indeed, Elizondo told Den of Geek that AAWSAP was created specifically to fund research into Skinwalker Ranch’s alleged interdimensional poltergeists. We know from the recent Hunt for the Skinwalker documentary that the Skinwalker Ranch hunt produced no evidence of otherworldly phenomena, though the researchers involved were nevertheless convinced that the “entities” were simply too crafty to leave any trace of their existence.

But the second article, in which Nick Redfern also discussed the role of Christian conservatives in limiting military paranormal studies for fear of demons, was more interesting for how it dovetails into information that Puthoff’s former paranormal research partner and current “metamaterials” investigative partner Jacques Vallée had to say about exactly where the Pentagon was getting its batshit ideas about demons and flying saucers.

Redfern writes that Linda Moulton Howe of Ancient Aliens received a letter back in the 1990s from two men who allegedly worked on one of the Pentagon programs dedicated to contacting demons or ghosts, which they termed “Non-Human Entities.” The two men read Howe’s book Glimpses of Other Realities and felt compelled to send her a fan letter in 1994. According to Redfern, part of the letter read this way:

Our misguided program directors cling to the false belief that we can control or manipulate the NHEs, when in actuality, the reverse is occurring – we are the ones being manipulated and deceived. […] The ultimate diversionary tactic to this point (and diversions will begin to increase in frequency, degree of strangeness, and in a more overt fashion, visible to greater numbers of observers) is the UFO abduction scenario. The concept of these events, real though they are, being the result of extraterrestrial beings is a masterful piece of disinformation to divert attention away from the real source of the NHEs. Our information as to the true nature of these events does not negate the possibility of extraterrestrial life. But the causal source of the UFO and UFO abduction phenomena is not extraterrestrial. […] Your comments and thoughts (in Glimpses of Other Realities) concerning ancient civilizations and their contacts with the NHEs need to be considered in light of the bigger picture of the deception of mankind as a whole. If this grand deception is taking the course it seems to be, then it makes complete sense to analyze the false gods of ancient civilizations in light of the current level of deception. It is only logical that given their non-human, other-dimensional nature, the NHEs would be able to foresee the need to establish a foundational base, the facts of which could be slightly twisted, or distorted, by the fog of antiquity and forgotten cultural distinctiveness, to seemingly establish themselves as the bringers of all good things to humanity. Explore [Jacques] Vallee’s Passport to Magonia again, for more close parallels between the ‘faerie’ manifestation of the NHEs, and current events. Dr. Vallee was so close to the truth of the situation, with the exception that the ultimate manipulators are not human.

Normally, I would simply discount the whole thing as made up garbage, but the theoretical background the alleged defense officials describe is basically the same one developed by Jacques Vallée and Hal Puthoff in the 1970s. Puthoff helped to push those ideas onto the Pentagon, and the letter is sadly consistent with what we know of Puthoff’s research interests and government efforts to explore Puthoff’s vision of interdimensional poltergeist tricksters.

The reference to Passport to Magonia recalls what Vallée wrote in early 1973 when Hal Puthoff discussed with him an early effort to shape Pentagon UFO/space ghost policies:

Hal has spoken to other “Government officials in a position to discover the true state of affairs” about UFOs. They told him that people who recently saw strange objects in the sky in the Southwest had only been watching classified prototypes. However they also conceded that there were “true” saucers. Hal said his high-level contacts walked around with UFO books in their briefcases, particularly mine. I found this depressing: Doesn’t that imply that they know less than I do?

I am bothered by the consistency of reports that a faction of Christian military brass are afraid of demons and that another faction of UFO-hunters are in thrall to the works of the ancient astronaut/Ancient Aliens shared universe.

Nearly half a century after Vallée wrote, we still seem to have government officials mistaking pseudoscience and fringe history books for serious revelations, and I am worried that Ancient Aliens influences Pentagon UFO research as much as Fox & Friends shapes the president’s morning agenda.

67 Comments

Scott Hamilton

5/23/2019 08:55:40 am

I dunno, I think it's more likely than ever that the whole Collins Elite thing is just a hoax concocted by Ray Boeche, Redfern's original source. Notice how the letter to LMH mentions Boeche's "obvious abilities as an astute researcher." Who talks like that, other than about themselves?

Nick Redfern link

5/23/2019 11:58:27 am

Well, the reason why I don't think Ray hoaxed all this includes the following: why would Ray fabricate it in the first place? It's hardly as if Ray promoted the story to a great degree. He did a couple of lectures that mentioned it, and referenced it in a lengthy paper he wrote way back in the 90s.

And there is a brief reference to the 2 Department of Defense guys Ray met in Jenny Randles' 1998 book, "UFO Crash Landing? Friend of Foe?"

Randles met Ray in May 1992, in Lincoln, Nebraska, and Ray told her part of the same story way back then - which was 15 years before I started looking into it in 2007.

If this was a fake, why would Ray make it such a low-key fake, and just tell a few people like me and Randles? Hoaxers usually have a motive that involves promoting their hoaxes to a significant, widespread degree.

Until I wrote "Final Events" in 2010, I can guarantee that most people in Ufology did not know the story of Ray's meeting with the two DoD guys. Ray only shared this story with a fairly small body of people from the early 1990s onward. My view is that this is not the way a hoaxer operates.

Look at things like the MJ12 hoax, the George Adamski photos, the 1948 "UFO crash" at Aztec, New Mexico, etc, they were all designed to get maximum publicity - and quickly too. In that 16 years between Ray meeting the 2 guys and me interviewing Ray about it all, it was largely in a limbo and was hardly ever promoted. That doesn't sound like the motivation of a hoaxer. It sounds like Ray just discussing the story, from time to time, when people asked him, and that's all. It comes down to this, too: I have spoken to Ray on many occasions and I trust him.

Also, it doesn't sound like a hoax for another reason: when I interviewed people from the group, it was made clear to me (and as I note in my book) that the group was very small. I know for sure that at one point there were less than 10 people in it. On other occasions it reached a couple of dozen, maybe a bit more. They never had a permanent building like the CIA, FBI, NSA etc. do. They were a small, think-tank-type group that would meet from time to time and that would prepare reports for senior people in Govt who bought into the "demonic UFOs" theory. And, as I note in the book they complained about the fact that they had a very small budget.

I may be wrong, but I think a hoaxer would try and present the Collins Elite as an all-powerful agency with unlimited budgets, with hundreds of employees, and probably working from some "underground base" type situation. In other words, to make the story an exciting one of the type that many in Ufology would buy into. But that wasn't the case at all. To me, it sounds exactly like it was: a small number of people funded to a very small degree. That all sounds typical of how Govt will toss money to strange projects.

Here's the important thing: despite being small and limited in funding, they really did influence powerful people in government who have strong religious beliefs.

But, just because there are some people in government who believe that aliens are really demons doesn't make it true. It means that even in the government there are people who have controversial beliefs, who act on those beliefs, and who arrange for handfuls of dollars to be thrown to people who may be able to help their cause.

Not all a hoax

5/23/2019 12:06:00 pm

You mean to say there's something in the UFO rubbish that "is not a hoax"?
LOL

Riley V

5/23/2019 03:15:34 pm

Mr. Redfern,

Thank you for responding.

Nick Redfern

5/23/2019 03:26:00 pm

No prob.

5/23/2019 05:39:48 pm

Heh. Redfern leads with "why would Ray fabricate it in the first place?" As if there aren't a zillion PROVEN hoaxes that don't have obvious motives. He could have made it up just to promote his personal view of UFOs. And if the Collins Elite story didn't do much to promote Boeche, all that proves that he wasn't great at promoting himself. Or that his activities with MUFON had burned too many bridges with the rest of the UFOlogy community.

"And there is a brief reference to the 2 Department of Defense guys Ray met in Jenny Randles' 1998 book, 'UFO Crash Landing? Friend of Foe?'"

So, did Randles meet the DoD guys? How do we know they exist at all? Redfern seems incredibly impressed that someone could tell the same story over a number of years, but he never seems to even consider that maybe a FAKE story can exist for years. The important thing is proving the story is true, not logging how many years the teller told it. I mean, jeez, in field of study that includes Richard Doty and Bill Moore and William Cooper I don't see how an inexplicable hoax being constantly put forwards as true is that hard to understand. Or Alternative 3! Literally a hoax from word one in 1977, and yet people today are still pushing that as true!

"Also, it doesn't sound like a hoax for another reason: when I interviewed people from the group..."

I wonder who put Redfern in touch with these members, hmmm? Someone with the initials of RB, maybe? I'm just guessing. I admit I haven't read his book on this one, but it's not as if it would be the first time a hoaxer has got someone to pretend to be an "insider."

5/23/2019 06:00:40 pm

Hamilton:

Ufoilogy is filled with hoaxes, absolutely jammed with them. But, almost all are high profile hoaxes meant to elevate the hoaxer - whether for fame, infamy, money, publicity etc.

My reason for not thinking this is a hoax is because Ray did not highlight this story at all, apart from a couple of lectures and in his paper of the early 1990s. That's my point: Ray only discussed this when people like me and Jenny Randles asked for interviews. That's hardly like Ray spreading the story here, there and everywhere.That doesn't sound like the approach of a hoaxer.

That was my point. Ray did very little to publicly promote the meeting he had in 1991 with the 2 DoD guys. I had to interview him to get the story. Does that sound like an enterprising hoaxer? Not to me.

No, Ray did not give me any of the additional sources at all.

You also say: "I admit I haven't read his book on this one."

No shit! I assume you do know that if you want to comment on a book it's actually a good idea to read the book first?!

Also, the story told to me by Ray in 2007 revolved around a group in government that was concerned that the UFO phenomenon was demonic in nature. And that the group wanted to try and keep these demons (as they saw them) away. That is eerily close to what we have learned in the last couple of years with Senator Reid, Elizondo etc.

How could anyone - back in 2007 when I interviewed Ray, or in 2010 when my Final Events book was published - have foreseen that in a little less than a decade later, we would learn - officially - that there really ARE people in government who do indeed believe that aliens are demons and that they WERE/ARE working to close doors, keep these things at bay etc. This is exactly what Ray's sources told him 1991 and which Ray told me in 2007, and which I published in 2010.

Joe Scales

5/23/2019 08:31:43 pm

Not all promoting this sort of UFO nonsense are perpetrating a hoax. No, most of them are simply imbeciles.

Carry on...

Why would they fabricate?

5/24/2019 01:05:38 am

This has been repeated zillions of times over zillions of years.
Why?
To catch people like Nic Redfern.

Stumbled on This Site

5/26/2019 09:36:31 am

"Ray did very little to publicly promote the meeting he had in 1991 with the 2 DoD guys. I had to interview him to get the story."

Mr. Boeche presented "UFOS Caught in a Web of Deception" at the Gulf Breeze UFO conference on February 12, 1994. Do I need to mention that the Gulf Breeze sightings were a notorious and well-executed hoax?

As Mr. Boeche stated in the 2/12/94 paper:

"Department of Defense sources involved with research
along these lines have demonstrated to me conclusively that this “web of deception” began to irreversibly close on us with the recovery of the Roswell crash material of 1947.

People are being manipulated for sinister purposes.We are being watched, probed, and manipulated by forces from outside our known physical universe. We are not alone, and we may not like it much when we ﬁnd out what sort of company we have."

So the idea that it took Mr. Refern to draw this stuff out years later stands denuded and ludicrous. Let's give Mr. Redfern a minute to punch himself in the face. A second time.

5/26/2019 12:22:37 pm

"Founder and former director of the Fortean Research Center, The Reverend Dr. Raymond W. Boeche has been involved in the study of unexplained phenomena since 1965. He has served as Nebraska State Director for the Mutual UFO Network, on the Board of Advisors for Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, and in various capacities with numerous other organizations around the world, involved in the study of unexplained phenomena. Boeche has delivered juried papers at two MUFON International Symposia; was retained by the University of Nebraska as a consultant to organize, host, and present research papers at two major international conferences on the unexplained in 1982 and 1983. He has had numerous articles published, as well 4 books: a collection of his writings, "An Anthology of the Unexplained"; "The Collected Annals of the Journal of the Fortean Research Center"; "Bloodless Cuts: The Complete Collected Works of Thomas R. Adams"; and "A Time to Stand: When Government Turns Its Back on God." Boeche is well-known as one of the primary investigators of the 1980 Bentwaters (UK) UFO incident. He is also recognized for his extensive work in the areas of animal mutilations, out-of-place animal sightings, Bigfoot reports, the Men-in-Black phenomenon, and occult religions and philosophies. His research has often been cited in national publications such as Omni and Fate magazine, and in books by researchers such as Loren Coleman, Janet and Colin Bord, Jenny Randles, Jerome Clark, Timothy Good, and others. He has contributed to the Time-Life book series Mysteries of the Unexplained, the LBS Communications production "UFO Coverup. . . Live!" for the Fox Television Network, and Guennette Productions’ Home Box Office special, "UFO’s, What on Earth is Happening?" He helped produce and host a popular weekly radio call-in talk show, Exploring Unexplained Phenomena for three years, is a frequent guest on other talk shows, and a popular speaker on theology and the unexplained."

Yet it took Mr. Redfern to draw it all out.

5/28/2019 09:10:52 am

Stumbled:

You say:

"So the idea that it took Mr. Refern to draw this stuff out years later stands denuded and ludicrous. Let's give Mr. Redfern a minute to punch himself in the face. A second time."

Wrong. If you go back and look at my comments on all this, I said the following: "Ray did very little to publicly promote the meeting he had in 1991 with the 2 DoD guys. I had to interview him to get the story."

I also said: "It's hardly as if Ray promoted the story to a great degree. He did a couple of lectures that mentioned it, and referenced it in a lengthy paper he wrote way back in the 90s."

Those couple of lectures included the Gulf Breeze one.

The "lengthy paper" I refer to is the presentation at the Gulf Breeze gig that you yourself refer to, too. You can read it at this link. Ray sent me a copy of this when I was doing the research for my book:

https://www.academia.edu/11583866/UFOs_Caught_in_a_Web_of_Deception

Ray has a huge, long involvement in Ufology. In fact, page 1 of my "Final Events" book uses info from the very same bio on him that you used.

No one doubts the extent of Ray's work. It goes back decades. But - AGAIN - when it came to specifically the meeting with the 2 DoD guys, the fact is that Ray did not promote that story much, beyond a few presentations and a paper.

And - ALSO AGAIN - the fact that Ray didn't do a large number of lectures or publicity on the DoD meet is one of the many reasons why I don't think this is a hoax. Most hoaxers promote their shit as much as they can. Ray's lecturing on the story was low key: the Gulf Breeze gig and a few others in the early to mid 1990s, his paper, and that is it. My point was that this is not how hoaxers work when it comes to promoting their hoaxes.

It's ironic that you brought up the Gulf Breeze issue because it demonstrates my entire point: the Gulf Breeze saga was promoted to a huge degree and became the subject of a big selling book, TV etc etc. That is exactly how many hoaxers work. Ray didn't do that. He didn't write a book on the DoD story. He didn't do huge lecture circuity-type things. On this particular issue we are debating on, Ray was very low key. Hoaxers are rarely low key.

Stumbled On This Site

5/28/2019 09:39:04 am

So contrary to your claim, it did not take you interviewing him to get the story out. When you present a paper you're PUBLISHING.

Einstein didn't go around shouting "Relativity! Relativity! Relativity!" at everyone he met, but the news got out, even without you interviewing him.

5/28/2019 11:18:11 am

Stumbled:

I said: "Until I wrote 'Final Events' in 2010, I can guarantee that most people in Ufology did not know the story of Ray's meeting with the two DoD guys. Ray only shared this story with a fairly small body of people from the early 1990s onward. My view is that this is not the way a hoaxer operates."

That's true: the fact is that most people did NOT know Ray's story until I interviewed him and published it in 2010. Ray did not share it with many people: he gave a couple of presentations (such as the Gulf Breeze gig you referred to), and wrote a paper (which was basically the text of the speech for the presentation).

Bear in mind, there was no appreciable Net back then. So, if you weren't physically at the couple of gigs and you didn't get a printed copy of the presentation, you almost certainly wouldn't know about the story. In terms of access to instant, widespread info, the world was very, very different then.

Also, as you quoted from Ray's paper in your comment above, I assume you have read the whole paper, right?

If you have, you'll know that while the entire paper is focused on the demonic UFO theory, a couple of references aside it's only in the Appendix of his speech that Ray even begins to address the matter of the DoD guys.

It's not like the DoD issue jumps out at you immediately. You pretty much have to scroll to the Appendix/end pages for the full story.

I stand totally with what I said before (several times): Ray's beliefs were shared - in a paper - at several conferences in the early 1990s. There was no Net then. The story did not go far, in terms of publicity. If you weren't at the gig, you probably wouldn't know about the part of the story that Ray tells in the Appendix. Aside from Jenny Randles' book, and a couple of other brief references.

Ray never wrote a book on the Department of Defense story. He didn't spend decades promoting the DoD story. In those respects, it was very low key until I interviewed Ray and the whole thing came tumbling out in "Final Events."

I see no evidence that Ray engaged in any kind of hoax. In fact, you made the case for me as to how a hoax IS generated when you brought up Gulf Breeze as an example. And Ray's approach to his sharing of the story is nothing like the approach of UFO hoaxers. I've crossed paths with such people on more than several occasions. You called Gulf Breeze "well-executed." In terms of it being a hoax. I see no signs that Ray executed a hoax (well or otherwise at all).

5/28/2019 12:31:11 pm

Did you interview "most people in ufology"? I suspect not.

"There was no net then."

The Mosaic browser came out in 1993 and before that there was text-based Internet. I'm not talking about BBS, I'm talking about the Internet.

You're really being an idiot. Punch yourself in the face, it'll be great, I promise you.

Niick Redfern

5/28/2019 01:52:55 pm

Nope, I'm not being an idiot. What I'm doing is demonstrating that Ray is not a hoaxer. There's nothing in his approach to even suggest he created the story out of thin air

It doesn't come across as a hoax for the following reason: hoaxers typically try and get their story spread far and wide and to secure maximum publicity.

Ray didn't do that, which is why you will find only a very, very small number of references to the story before my "Final Events" book was published in 2010.

The scenario of Ray creating such a complex story and then doing very little with it for years and years is crazy.

Of course, you could always contact Ray and ask him if he's lying. You may find yourself in an interesting debate. You may not need to do that, though. After all, you do know that Ray reads this blog, right?

5/28/2019 10:03:04 pm

Which is more likely, that he would admit he made something up or that you would admit you're being an idiot?

5/29/2019 09:46:34 am

Which is more likely? Neither, of course!!

Nico Santos

11/7/2019 08:12:45 am

So, the idea that little grey men from outer space is perfectly rational, but that the UFO phenomenon is a supernatural demonic hoax meant to deceive humanity is “bonkers”. It all comes down to a question of faith. If you believe there is no God, UFOs driven by aliens from other planets are your substitute. If you believe there is a God, it’s easy to understand that there is an enemy who deceives humanity with substitutes for God. The warnings of high ranking officials of the demonic nature of the UFO phenomenon need to be heeded. There are no aliens, but there is an enemy trying to convince you there is no God.

Jim Davis

5/23/2019 09:04:05 am

"...we need to purge the military of all its paranormal-believing idiots."

Would you care to identify a few of these idiots by name? It's difficult to purge people you can't identify.

William Fitzgerald

5/23/2019 10:33:53 am

No of course he can't because he has no idea what he is talking about in this case. Jason usually does a pretty good job at being a skeptic, but on certain topics the mask slips and he reveals his ideological bent which can overcome his better judgement.

The idea that the U.S. military is serious about demons or other such is ridiculous, but if you were to pursue this line of thinking you should produce proof. In this instance it seems Jason is inclined to believe the worst of the military and therefore, he apparently believes: sure this might be plausible. But, an article from Den of Geek, of all places, is not a good place to start. And relying on a couple of "alleged" one-time DOD employees is not very convincing.

Still, this not to say the military doesn't do a lot of stupid things or that you couldn't find someone legitimately associated with the military who believes this stuff. (e.g. it's unfortunate, but a lot of homeless are veterans with some having very strange ideas, but this is not a reflection on veterans or the military as a whole). The Department of Defense is a massive organization. So, you might find a high ranking nut job or two, maybe; of course anyone who has been in the military can probably tell a good story to that end. But this is again not a condemnation of the military as a whole. Most military leaders have too much else to worry about and are generally pretty rational (part of the job description) that anyone who starts to talk about studying demons will probably not have a long career. (Unless by Demons they mean Chinese communists, Russian fascists or millennials - Just kidding Admiral McRaven).

If your belief is that many in the military hold personal religious beliefs that are, say, odd and you further believe that these beliefs thus translate into policy and programs. I say prove it, Jason!

Demons in the military

5/23/2019 10:42:58 am

Of course Demons are not an official part of the military.
But there are people in the military who privately believe in all sorts of crazy spiritual rubbish.

And witness the existence of Uri Geller being taken seriously within the context of Stargate - that was an official military investigation into paranormal phenomena - that cost zillions of taxpayers money - it was all done because the Russians were doing it ahead of the Americans.

Not only Uri Geller, but screwball Inigo Swann was also taken seriously by the US military, with Puhoff and Targ involved.

The man in charge of Stargate was Major General Albert Stubblebine who not only believed in Geller's parlour tricks but tried to duplicate them.

5/23/2019 11:18:55 am

The cold war was a crazy time. General Patton had some funny personal beliefs as well, but this doesn't mean he should've been "purged." And in any event these examples don't reflect on the military as a whole or even the senior leadership of the military. Like broader society there will be crack-pots and some will even on occasion succeed professionally.

My broader point is the apparent dislike and contempt of the military by Jason, while claiming to be premised on rumors of funny experiments or religious beliefs, but lacking very little actually evidence to base his assertions; this I see as bias, a likely reflection of his underlying ideology.

DEMONS IN THE MILITARY

5/23/2019 11:45:35 am

Project Stargate was the military.

Art Gemeinschaft

5/29/2019 01:02:51 am

"In addition to alleged security violations from uncleared civilian psychics working in Sensitive Compartmented Information Facilities (SCIFs), Stubblebine offended then-U.S. Army Chief of Staff General John Adams Wickham, Jr. by offering to perform a spoon-bending feat at a formal gala; Wickham associated such phenomena with Satanism."

Clearly he figured out the trick.

Frankie

5/31/2019 08:01:36 am

Let's start at the top

Puff the Magic Dragon

5/23/2019 09:20:49 am

Please, please Mister Redfern return to this blog. At least your rambling, half conceived ideas and excuses are at the very least interesting. Then, after being insulted for being a moron you will at least reply by challenging your tormentors to a fight in your favorite gay bar.

What about Albert Stubblebine

5/23/2019 09:45:36 am

This is really very funny because the Roman Catholic church still officially believes in devils and exorcisms.

Albert Stubblebine, in charge of the Stargate Project believed in Uri Geller's spoon bending and tried to duplicate it. Major General Harry Soyster, his successor, put it all down to works of the devil.

This is all real-life stuff without having to enter the fringe. There's more than enough madness in real-life issues.

Hal Puthoff was a true believe

5/23/2019 10:05:34 am

Hal Puthoff seriously believed in Uri Geller's parlour tricks that were lampooned by the late British comedian Tommy Cooper.

Accumulated Wisdom

5/23/2019 10:26:04 am

I have personally witnessed two orbs of light. An energy bubble would be a more apt description. About the size of my balled fist, milky-blue in color, and resembled a high-speed lava lamp. Whatever energy was inside that bubble, it would turn dark blue as soon as it hit the membrane and fall back to the interior. Eventually it shot up through the ceiling, not leaving a burn, or trace of any kind. This was in the library of my fraternity house.

The second was the same as the first except, the color more resembled cream with a dollop of coffee. The light inside would turn brown when hitting the membrane before, falling back to the interior. This was in my kitchen at my old house.

I have heard the possibilities of ghosts, aliens, and ball lightning. I don't think it's any of those. Definitely not aliens, or ghosts. Would be nice for someone to take it seriously... Other than some Nut Jobs hunting ghosts.

Nothing new

5/23/2019 10:29:18 am

anomalous aerial phenomena is truly a boring subject matter that can never be scientifically analysed because it cannot be captured.

Scoober Doober

5/23/2019 10:43:05 pm

What brands this story as fake is the detail of a fraternity house having a library.

5/24/2019 10:37:43 am

"Library" is what the room was called. No books. Just a pool table, some display cases, and a computer.

I fully stand behind my story. Still have no idea what exactly it was, or how it was created. Remains one of the coolest things, I've ever had the privilege of witnessing.

Ever hear of the "Horton Spook Light"?

5/26/2019 03:26:23 pm

"Ever hear of the "Horton Spook Light"?"

Long ago debunked. Don't be an imbecile. Sorry, that's asking too much.

Jockobadger

5/31/2019 12:56:57 pm

ACC-WIS - Cool stories. I saw something similar once myself. I'm a geologist by profession and I've read up quite a bit on the Marfa Lights and the Hesdalen Lights and they seem to be some sort of plasma (orb?) related to the local geological situation - possibly also to accumulated stresses in the rocks. The resulting strain in the rock body may be somehow generating the plasma (if that's what it is.) The Hesdalen lights have been studied for quite some time by some credible folks. It's been awhile since I looked at it so may have changed.

6/1/2019 09:09:09 pm

Jockobadger,

I really wish, I knew what these "bubbles" were made of, and how they are created. I have to admit, I ran after seeing the first one.
There is a fault line in the area, and we've had some minor earthquakes which, originated in another state. I did see a photo of an "orb" similar to the milky blue one, I saw. Unfortunately, it was on a ghost hunting program. No serious scientific investigation.

If someone ever sees one of these "bubbles"...They will NEVER forget it.
I was really hoping someone here, knew what these things are.

6/1/2019 10:34:21 pm

I have attempted to see the Horton Spook Light. Apparently, I was in the wrong area. Locals like to lead "outsiders" astray. Mainly due to some disrespectful people who had damaged property, and trespassed. My friends, and I always stuck to public roads. I forget whom but, some University has begun a new study.

As far as, I know, NO ONE has ever "debunked" this Light. I am unaware of any names attached to another "Spook Light" allegedly in North Carolina. Supposedly, Theodore Roosevelt was a witness to this particular light.

6/2/2019 03:37:42 am

"I forget" and "I am unaware". The cornerstones of rhetoric!

6/2/2019 10:04:26 am

SCOOBER DOOBER
6/2/2019 03:37:42 am
"I forget" and "I am unaware". The cornerstones of rhetoric!

You obviously haven't watched daytime television. The key phrases are, "Studies show"..."research says"..."scientists say"..."research shows" and "scientists are looking into".

I have never claimed to be an expert on anything. I am too inquisitive to settle for one field of study.

Fish Meet Barrel

6/3/2019 08:20:31 am

"11/29/2018 11:02:21 am
Well. Thank you boys and girls for taking me back to Junior High. Seriously. It made me realize, yesterday was the 27th anniversary of the State Football Championship my senior year. Won with a core group of guys who all met in junior high. A core group so close and competitive, we only lost two games in 5 years together. The only two games I did not play. Good memories to have come rushing back. Thank you. Only two of us ever discussed ancient mysteries. We had enough Street Smarts to know better. "

"Street Smarts"! C'est pour rire, non?

5/23/2019 03:11:57 pm

Unless they were a Flag Officer, anyone from the military who wrote a letter in 1994 has likely left or retired.

5/23/2019 04:56:25 pm

When I interviewed Ray Boeche about all of this in 2007, he told me that when he met the 2 guys in 1991 (28 years ago) he estimated they were in their mid-fifties. So, if they were 55 in 1991, that would put them in their early eighties now. Definitely not still working, and maybe even croaked.

You've been factchecked

5/26/2019 08:25:58 pm

While exceptions have been made, mandatory retirement age applies to flag and general officers.

5/23/2019 04:01:51 pm

There is someone who is often very much overlooked when it comes to the demonic side of all this. It's Dr. Nelson Pacheco – a former Principal Scientist with the Supreme Headquarters, Allied Powers, Europe (SHAPE), Technical Center.

With Tommy Blann he wrote a book titled "Unmasking the Enemy," which is totally "The aliens are demons"-driven.

It's an expensive and rare book to find, but it covers very much the same areas as the Collins Elite, Ray Boeche's story, and today's issue of people in Government concerned by a demonic presence.

Here's a link to the book:

https://www.abebooks.com/9781885152015/Unmasking-Enemy-Nelson-Pacheco-Tommy-1885152019/plp

Thanks

5/23/2019 04:46:42 pm

There are other similar rubbish

5/23/2019 06:14:28 pm

Hamilton:

You also say: "And if the Collins Elite story didn't do much to promote Boeche, all that proves that he wasn't great at promoting himself."

That's totally wrong. Ray never went out of his way to promote the story at all. I had to get it out of him. It has nothing to do with Ray being unable to give the story publicity. He chose not to spread the story all over the place.

Demon Spotter

5/23/2019 09:28:59 pm

Is Nick Redfern the guy who threatens to punch people?

The showering coach from Pennsylvania? Demon.
Anthony Warren? Demon.
Jesus Christ? Demon.
George R.R. Martin? Demon.
Every Republican? Demon.

Willard

5/24/2019 03:08:30 pm

Threatens yes. Actually doing it no. He would probably run from any real conflict except perhaps from a six year old cripple, elderly wheel chair bound cancer patients and the newly deceased.

An Anonymous Nerd

5/23/2019 09:34:45 pm

Many of the reactions to this piece are curious.

Somehow Mr. Colavito's wanting his country's military to not waste money is read by one user as a reflection of Mr. Colavito's politics and that he hates the military. Do only people of certain political orientations within the US not want their country's military to waste resources chasing ghosts and demons? If so that orientation is the way to go! And hating the military? There's no way to get that from anything Mr. Colavito wrote. It is, however, a great Conservative talking point. And a frequently used one. But not one that's in touch with reality in this case.

Some doubt that any of this can be true simply because it's too outlandish that the military would do this stuff. Remember that this started with a pretty well researched New York Times piece about a nearly-as-ridiculous program. Also note Project MKUltra. Ok not technically the military but rather the CIA but the same sort of idea -- Folks who should know better, who are paid to know better, wasting money on an idea as dumb as it was unethical. Military research into psychic type stuff is also pretty well documented I believe. There's also been some written on the increasingly monolithic nature of religion within the US military so that part's not outlandish either.

So yeah it's being just too outlandish for the US military to waste its time and money this way is not a credible reason by itself to doubt this material.

Some doubt that any of this can be true because it's from Den of Geek, which is insulting.....However when you look at the Den of Geek article you'll see that the underlying source is.....A FORTHCOMING HISTORY CHANNEL PIECE!!! So that much is a reason to figure that some of this stuff might be, at minimum, exaggerated. Granted it's not implausible, to be sure, but almost anything should seem unlikely when it's on the History Channel. Indeed if I were the government and trying to hide something in plain sight the first thing I'd do would be to put it on the History Channel and then be rest assured that, consequently, any reasonable person would have his or her doubts.

Nick Redfern's replies I honestly have a hard time following, so yeah.

Anyway some really odd replies to this article....

The reason why the stories are invented

5/24/2019 01:08:52 am

The reason why the stories are invented in the first place is to pull the likes of Nick Redfern. Simple explanation. And Nick profits in the process from selling books and the process continues.

5/24/2019 04:54:49 pm

Mrs, Miss. or Mr. "The Reason...," you are wrong. Here's why:

In 1991 Ray Boeche was given the story (by two people in the DoD) of there being a group in the US Govt investigating the UFO phenomenon from the perspective of it being alien, but who soon came around to the theory that the things were demonic.

As they saw it, they had opened a door to allow these things to enter our world. The result, they told Ray Boeche, was that bad luck, weird negativity, even deaths occurred in the program. So, they focused on stopping the contact and instead trying to keep the things at bay.

That's also the very same story Ray told me in 2007, and it's the story I told in my 2010 book, "Final Events."

If that's where the story ended, then I would actually totally understand why you might take the "invented" view that you have.

But, as we now know, in the last year or so there have been slightly guarded references (from people in Govt) to a group / faction in the US Govt that really DOES believe that aliens are demons and that they really DO need to be prevented from interacting with us (Senator Harry Reid's words, etc).

Now, with Elizondo confirming this too, it's clear to me that the group has a long history, and much of what Ray Boeche was told way back in 1991 and what he told me in 2007 has now, today, been confirmed in relation to this angle of needing to hold them back.

Now, that doesn't mean that real demons exist (that's a very important thing to note), but it does confirm that this is not an "invented" story, as you put it.

Even the Govt/military admits it has people within it ranks who think demonic aliens have to be prevented from fucking us up.

The parallels between 1991 and 2019 are so close that - as I see it - we're talking about a genuine group that has existed for a long time, and succeeded in keeping much of their work under wraps. But, the secrecy on it is starting to fall.

In 1991

5/24/2019 11:36:18 pm

Blimey, here's me thinking that it was all regarded as demonic by some people long before 1991

Pierre Charles link

5/26/2019 08:33:59 pm

To say thet some military are Christians and that they believe UFOs are demons is just inevitable.
If you look at L.A. Marzully blog, you will see that even in the 70' Christians believed in UFO's. John Keel (Operation Trojan Horse 1970) and Jacques Vallee (Passporty to Magonia 1969) are often cited by Christians to support they 'demonic' interpretation of ufos.
But the real Christian craze about UFOs started in the 90'.after the publication of Constance Cumby : 'The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow' in 1983, Milton William Cooper : 'Behold a Pale Horse' 1991, Bob Larson's New Book of Cults 1989 and and William Alnor : 'Ufo's in the New Age: Extraterrestrial Messages and the Truth of Scripture' 1992 followed by John Ankerberg : 'The Facts on UFOs & Other Supernatural Phenomena' 1992.
and the list goes on...

Prince Albert

5/26/2019 08:53:15 pm

Dude, Christians believed in UFOs in the middle ages. Make a point or begone.

5/26/2019 09:49:54 pm

The 'demonic' interpretation is more recent. UFOs is a modern term. Angels were not 'unidentified' in the middle-ages.

Ray Boeche

5/29/2019 01:56:03 pm

Wow! The vitriol displayed here is incredible.

Nick Redfern is a talented writer, careful and scrupulous researcher, and a man I consider a friend, although we've not had the oppportunity to meet face to face.

The material presented in the appendix of my paper stands on its own. I attempted to verify it through other sources, but was unsuccessful. In 2007, Nick took up the challenge and succeeded.

This type of mindless polemic is one of the reasons I stay well away from most discussions on these topics.

I find it interesting that Jason references a letter sent from the DOD researchers to Linda Howe -- in response to questions she had posed to them -- as a "fan letter." Tongue in cheek or head-up-backside? I'm not sure I can answer that.

I would find the parochial naivete and utter lack of understanding of basic Christian theological concepts exhibited by those offering their opinions to be amusing, were it not so sad.

Nick, my friend, your well-reasoned replies stand alone on their logical, rational merits, and serve as examples of why these critics and naysayers would be well-advised to remember not to come armed with a mental butter-knife to an intellectual gunfight.

5/29/2019 02:07:24 pm

Dude, you're defending a ghost-hunting charlatan on a website for skeptics. What are you... an imbecile?

5/29/2019 03:40:41 pm

Do you even know what "skeptic" means? Certainly, most people who commented on this thread are not balanced skeptics; their words and approach makes that very clear. They immediately suggested (directly or in couched fashion) that Ray hoaxed it. That's not the approach of a skeptic, as the word is defined.

5/29/2019 05:00:47 pm

Well, I often chide some here, including our host, who believe themselves to be skeptics who allow their politics to dictate their biases... but so long as we're okay with the whole ghost-hunting charlatan thing, I'll give you your due.

5/30/2019 10:20:07 am

Scales:

Huh? Make a compromise?! You're joking, right?

5/30/2019 10:56:07 am

Finally. Somebody gets me...

Stumbled on this Site

5/30/2019 01:52:07 am

https://www.google.com/search?q=skeptic+definition&rlz=1CAHKDC_enUS830&oq=skeptic+defin&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l4.6460j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

"Hoax" is indeed the default hypothesis and usually turns out to be the appropriate term. It's playing the percentages and also saves time because the skeptic doesn't waste his day trying to prove the thing under question is not a hoax; that's a Wolterism. Pursuing the hoax angle is the best use of the skeptic's time.

Especially when dealing with someone who writes nonsense like "There was no Net then.."

Time for your daily facepunch Mr. Redfern. To steal from Fox Mulder, skeptics say "The Truth is out there" whereas you say "I want to believe".

5/30/2019 10:18:08 am

Stumbled:

The story told to me by Ray in 2007 revolved around a group in government (DoD) that was concerned that the UFO phenomenon was demonic in nature. And that the group wanted to try and keep these demons (as they saw them) away.

That is eerily close to what we have learned in the last couple of years with Senator Reid, Elizondo etc.

How could anyone - back in 2007 when I interviewed Ray, or in 2010 when my Final Events book was published - have foreseen that in a little less than a decade later, we would learn - officially - that there really ARE people in government who do indeed believe that aliens are demons and that they WERE/ARE working to close doors, keep these things at bay etc. This is exactly what Ray's sources told him 1991 and which Ray told me in 2007, and which I published in 2010.

That suggests no hoax at all.

5/30/2019 10:59:30 am

UFO's are simply phenomena for which identification is sought. Nothing more. Nothing less. Demons need not apply.

5/30/2019 11:39:27 am

Is suggests a long con and there's no reason to believe the the bizarre belief in flying demons is confined to only one generation of government workers or contractors.

It's probably about time for your daily facepunch, don't you think?

Your argument still seems to boil down to this: "In spite of his publicizing his story in 1994, it took my 2007 interview to get the story out of him."

So you agree that "there was no Net then" was either wrong or a lie? Which one are you going with?

The more you talk the weaker your position seems.

5/30/2019 11:44:46 am

Nah.

Paul Dunston

10/27/2020 01:17:11 am

Seeking information on Lt. Gen. Frank Early USMC/retired as relates to white paper prepared for DOD, on above subject matter, aprx '96-98...I believe he had it outsourced or could have been presented pseudonymously. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you, in advance.

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