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Unexplained Files Tells Us to Fear Nuclear-Obsessed UFOs

9/10/2014

67 Comments

 
Did you happen to see yesterday’s and today’s cable TV listings? It was nearly wall to wall aliens and conspiracies, perhaps worse than I have ever seen it. H2 had the requisite Ancient Aliens episodes, of course. On the American Heroes Channel there was an hour giving Stanton Friedman free reign to proclaim the Roswell incident a genuine UFO crash, followed by Codes and Conspiracies, and then two more conspiracy shows, one asking whether Franklin Roosevelt really had polio. Over on the Science Channel, we have several hours of extraterrestrial shows tonight, including one on alien mummies, capped off last night with a new episode of The Unexplained Files, perhaps their most unbalanced and irresponsible yet.
I can’t offer a formal review of the episode because I don’t have the expertise to evaluate modern UFO claims. I can, though, make a few observations about the poor quality of the show. Unlike most episodes, which feature two different topics, this episode had only one: Are extraterrestrials planning terrorist attacks on the world’s nuclear bases? To investigate this paranoid claim, Unexplained Files turns to a familiar figure, Nick Pope, the former British Defence official who is here described as the head of Britain’s “official X-files”—a claim all the more ridiculous given how Unexplained Files virtually rips off The X-Files’s theme music, not to mention name, graphic design, and aesthetic.

Anyway, Pope starts off by offering a rather dumb claim. He correlates UFO sightings to their proximity to U.S. Air Force Bases, but doesn’t consider the obvious conclusion that such sightings occur due to Air Force activities, such as test flights, as has long been known. Instead, he claims that space aliens have a deep interest in our nuclear weapons.

To illustrate this, Pope and Unexplained Files cover three cases that are extremely familiar even to me—and I don’t have much interest in modern UFO sightings. The three cases are:

  • Malmstrom Air Force Base (1967), when UFOs supposedly shut down nuclear missiles. This story was on Ancient Aliens a couple of times, and skeptics have claim that the event was actually due to a completely non-alien electrical failure.
  • Rendlesham Forest Incident (1980), a case that has been debunked over and over to the point that even the Fortean Times called Nick Pope dishonest for continuing to promote the story. The incident was the subject of a Sci-Fi (as Syfy was then known) documentary, also with Pope, and several episodes of Ancient Aliens, again featuring Pope.
  • Byelokoroviche, Ukraine (1982), when a UFO supposedly caused Soviet nuclear weapons to start their launch sequence, a claim first made on ABC News in 1995. The first version of the story made the UFO 2,900 feet wide (yet somehow unseen except by about four people) but said that just one missile had a signal light briefly light up for less than 15 seconds, indicating that a launch code had been entered; now the story has grown into a much more frighting myth of imminent nuclear catastrophe.

In all three cases neither Pope nor Unexplained Files provided any physical or even documentary evidence in favor of their claims, only hearsay from various supposed witnesses decades after the fact. But having failed to make a case, the show does manage to be reprehensible in two aspects.

First, it never explains to readers that Pope has a potential conflict of interest arising from his financial interest in the Rendlesham story, which makes up the majority of the hour. He is not a disinterested observer or an objective researcher but the author of several books on the subject, including a new one oh so coincidentally just released this summer, as part of his bid to become the world’s leading (and thus highest paid) Rendlesham UFO expert. This documentary was all but an informercial for Pope’s new book, Encounter in Rendlesham Forest—the one that the Fortean Times accused of “mislead[ing] his readers” and purposeful omission of skeptical arguments. You know, like on this show, which includes exactly one skeptical (albeit unusual) argument (that the incident was an Air Force effort aimed at retrieving an Apollo space capsule) only to waive it aside with a fact-free dismissal from Pope.

But here’s the kicker: The narrator repeatedly ties the UFO incidents to abject fear. Words like “terrifying” seep into the narration, as the gravelly voice over offers one “even more frightening reason” after the other to believe in an evidence-free conspiracy. The show asserts a U.S. government conspiracy “to hide the truth,” but offers no opposing view—or even any evidence in favor of this claim, only an assertion without grounding that whatever the government says is a “lie.”

The producers at British production company Raw-TV (with whom I spoke when they wanted me to, essentially, lie about the Smithsonian conspiring to hide Bible giants) should be ashamed of themselves for such fear-mongering. When you contrast their program with the news stories this week about growing public panic that ISIS (ISIL/Islamic State) is planning a terrorist attack against America, as well as continuing upset over perceived invasions across America’s southern border, it becomes irresistible to see the rise of fear-mongering conspiracy programs like this and like the Ancient Aliens obsession with genetic hybridization as a reflection of the post-9/11 world in which traumatized Americans are paralyzed by an overwhelming fear of invasion. The message, distorted through science fiction conventions, is essentially identical to that of nativist political pundits: terrifying foreign forces are trying to attack us, destroy our way of life, and breed us out of existence unless we stop them. Neither your government, nor your land, nor even your families, bodies, or genes are safe. In the meantime, be afraid and send money.

But enough of this. I’ve gone one other nutty idea to share. As you may be aware, America Unearthed is coming back next month and one of the episodes will explore Judaculla Rock, a petroglyph-covered stone in North Carolina often attributed to the Cherokee but possibly dating back as far as the Middle Woodland Period (500 CE). Anyway, North Carolina author David Webb published a book about the rock last year, unbeknownst to me, in which he claims to have decoded the petroglyphs, in defiance of all scholarly attempts to do so. He translated the characters and discovered… well, you’ll see:
…Judaculla Rock tells of a time when giants and little people lived together in harmony and the children of the forest were taught their ways. The ancient language of the stone is a language of the Ginn [sic] (angels who were created 2000 years before Adam). The Ginn language was a language of Mother Nature and was kept hidden in the forest. This book uncovers a creation story where angels communicated with mankind and opens up the possibility of seeing the rich cultural history located in the Tuckaseegee that touches all other histories of the ancient archaeologies.
It’s interesting that Webb conflates the Djinn with angels (they are very different in Islamic lore), and that he ties Abrahamic angelology to Cherokee mythology.

So, the rock was carved in the language of the angels and records secrets of creation, including the deeds of the giants. Where have we heard that before? Oh, right: It’s the damned Watchers and their Nephilim-giant offspring again. The parallel to the version of their story given in the Book of Jubilees is uncanny. In Jubilees 8:3, Kainam finds just such a rock: “And he found a writing which former (generations) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and stars in all the signs of heaven.” It is the same as the Pillars of Wisdom from Josephus (Antiquities 1:68-74) and all the others versions of the same, when the Sons of God came unto the daughters of men (Genesis 6:1-4). I would never accuse Webb of knowing this, but it’s interesting that he makes his angels into Djinn since the most infamous of the Watchers, Azazel, is said in the Qu’ran (18:50) to be a Djinn rather than an angel, assuming that we accept the hadith that the Djinn Iblis (Satan) mentioned in this verse was born under the name Azazel.
67 Comments
Gunn link
9/10/2014 05:07:08 am

"Are extraterrestrials planning terrorist attacks on the world’s nuclear bases?"

Well, maybe. How exactly is it that physical manifestations can give the appearance of following after theosophical or religious thought? Here we see possible illusion when crossing the veil which is meant to separate this physical world from that we don't, and can't, normally see.

I'm talking about apparent physical weirdness that often seems to accompany UFO, Bigfoot, etc., sightings, perhaps in a way that strange phenomena sometimes seems to accompany spiritual or religious activity. There is this strange crossing which seems to occur between the invisible and visible world, dare I say. We think of Jesus passing through a physical door or wall, yet able to consume fish...or else this is a purposeful illusion.

What is illusion and what isn't, might be a key question here. If Islamist extremists cause mischief with America's nuclear capabilities, unseen, someone on the fringe will be sure to blame it on UFO's, for you see, I think there are times when both God and Satan are able to use humans to accomplish their purposes.

When we throw angels into the mix, it can become quite confusing...especially since there are both good and bad angels with varying degrees of powers within their respective principalities...for the most part unseen...unless and until there is a seeming interruption in what should be normal. But don't worry, because God is in charge of the universe He created. It would be a truly FEARSOME situation, otherwise.

Nuclear power? I recommend off-grid, clean, renewable energy rather than the facade of innocent nuclear energy; I'd rather be concerned with the storage of renewable energy from the wind and sun than be concerned about the storage of nuclear waste.

But there is always that pesky FEAR of what UFO's, bad angels and Islamist extremists might be able to do working together, right? (Just a joke, Only Me...take out the UFO's.)

Reply
Only Me
9/10/2014 02:08:49 pm

Actually, Gunn, I find the whole "Aliens are targeting nuclear weapons" idea greatly entertaining.

Let's think on this. Beings with the technology to traverse hundreds or thousands of light years of space are concerned with the presence of nuclear weapons? Why? Isn't that as ridiculous as the crew of a M1A2 Abrams tank being concerned that the locals are armed with flash bang grenades? The whole thing is the Chicken Little reaction of those in ufology who want UFOs to remain nuts and bolts craft, not the result of spiritual/supernatural phenomena. They want Klaatu, not Xenu.

Interestingly enough, on an episode of Mysteries at the Museum, they discussed a situation that played out just like the incidents at Malmstrom, and may have been the one that occurred at Byelokoroviche, Ukraine. The real cause? A computer malfunction that falsely alerted the command staff that the U.S. had launched a pre-emptive nuclear strike. No aliens, as none were needed to explain what happened.

Reply
EP
9/10/2014 02:34:28 pm

Sadly, "malfunction" was and remains the best explanation whenever something goes wrong with Russian technology. Followed by "operator was intoxicated and/or incompetent".

It is amazing that humanity did not go extinct during the Cold War.

Gunn link
9/11/2014 04:50:00 am

Only Me says: "Let's think on this. Beings with the technology to traverse hundreds or thousands of light years of space are concerned with the presence of nuclear weapons?"

Let's think on this some more, Only Me. The beings we're talking about can exhibit physical bodies, or not. We are dealing with spiritual beings that are invisible for the most part, but at times are able to take on physical manifestations...or else exhibit illusions expressing the same.

The bottom line is that spiritual beings don't need to be concerned with time and space and light years, as we are. And, in the case of God, He is able to be in various locations at the same time--instantly. His presence can be anywhere and everywhere, as in "I AM." His creation is limited, but He isn't. I hope this helps.

Can the invisible world mess with the visible world? It happens all the time. Spiritual entities can use humans (willingly or unwillingly) for their own purposes, and I'm not referring to actual UFO's and aliens. I'm referring to the illusion-makers behind the UFO's. UFO's and aliens: no. Bad angels: yes.

Unfortunately, the prophecy-laden future does not look good, until our experience becomes better again. We may expect to see an increase in wickedness, as the End of Times as we know it is drawing nearer and nearer.... The is the real FEAR! Get your souls ready.

Frankenstein's Monster and UFO's/aliens are out, real demons are in. Jason, you need to get your FEARS straight.

EP
9/11/2014 06:32:59 am

Gunn, will the Millenium Wind Turbine help "our experience become better again"?

Only Me
9/11/2014 08:13:35 am

No, Gunn, the beings *you're* talking about are different from the ones *I'm* talking about. I'm referring to extraterrestrials with advanced technology, which was the subject of the episode discussed in the article above.

I don't need a lesson about God or spiritual beings, thank you. In fact, your comments are about subject matter that really can't be applied to the topic. This whole "not aliens...demons" idea smells strongly of L.A. Marzulli.

Gunn link
9/11/2014 03:01:40 pm

Only Me lamely says: "I'm referring to extraterrestrials with advanced technology, which was the subject of the episode discussed in the article above."

Right...and the subject discussed, in referring to extraterrestrials, warrants a comparison of ideas of just what extraterrestrials could be. Unless you've swallowed the UFO/Alien crap hook-line-and-sinker. Or unless you've got a better explanation for the seeming infiltration of the veil which normally separates the seen from the unseen. What do you propose, that everything UFO/Alien or spiritual/religious is imaginary, and not real in any sense at all? Wonderful. Very creative. Highly skeptical on a skeptic's blog.

But perhaps demonology is a viable study, so that I need make no apologies for saying that I think demonic illusions could be behind supposed UFO/Alien activity. At least I have an opinion...and it's not that farfetched as a Bible-based opinion.

Only Me, I venture to say that there are no such creatures as "extraterrestrials with advanced technology" that could reach here, in a physical sense. So that all is illusion. (Spirit entities may take on physical characteristics after reaching here, though.) You can stay on that unsteady platform if you wish, or just say there are no extraterrestrials at all. But I think you are a bit brash by pretending upset by me claiming that extraterrestrials may have a demonic background, given my explantion.

Readers should know that FEAR is generally thought of as being of the Devil, while LOVE is generally thought of as being of God. Who wants to study and be fascinated by FEAR, anyway, when there is a better alternative of study?

Peace, man.


EP
9/11/2014 03:17:54 pm

Can we talk about the Millenium Wind Turbine? Please?

Only Me
9/11/2014 05:27:15 pm

First, Gunn, you can stop pretending you know anything about me. You can also drop the attitude; you expressed an opinion and I expressed mine. Your interpretation, and that is all it is, is no better than my own. Call it lame all you want, I offered an opinion based on the episode and article...that nuts and bolts UFOs have visited military bases to play Red Light, Green Light with our nuclear arsenal.

Ascribing all accounts of cryptids, UFOs and ghosts to demonic manifestations is not a school of thought I find satisfactory. I actually find it to be a cop out, used by those who are afraid to say "I don't know". I want real inquiry and proof, since those who insist such subjects are real claim that the evidence--or truth--exists.

I wasn't upset by your comments in the least, but I am now. You want to smugly say "At least I have an opinion", as if I didn't...or more likely, you didn't agree with it, so you have to dismiss it. You want to say that extraterrestrials are an illusion; it may shock you to know that there are people who think demons are an illusion. It may further shock you to know that both opinions are equally likely to be correct or wrong.

Someday, you need to wake up and realize that everyone will not think as you do. That is not a flaw or sin; that's life.

Enlightenment Science
9/12/2014 12:04:44 pm

There sometimes is something rather physical and direct
that triggers ghost stories & tales of daemonic possession.
Gunn, glad to see you back. I think there is something very
real behind most UFO reports, and its not hallucinations...
I also think that less than one tenth of one percent of the better
reports actually might have an Extra-Terrestrial link. Skeptics
who debunk an obvious hoax that has monetary greed as a
motive are doing us all a service. Its only a very small number
of reports that hold up to a scrutiny, and as people become
better educated, less people hallucinate medieval demons.
To be fair about more than 2000 years of Christian Theology,
I cannot prove that Satan's existence sometimes has a material
plane manifestation, nor can I prove that there is a linkage to
many of the B.C mystery cults, but I am aware that this is again
perhaps possible. I am more comfortable with the things science
can actually measure and formulate new hypothesis about...

EP
9/10/2014 05:45:00 am

Jason, any idea whether either "little people" or "children of the forest" distinct from basic normal humans?

Also, any idea what the nature of the bit of pseudo-legalese describing the book as "historically significant cultural property"?

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Jason Colavito link
9/10/2014 06:19:18 am

I believe that the poorly written book description meant to imply that the rock, not the book, is historically significant. I have no idea about the other groups. It sounds like the "little people" are dwarves or fairies of some kind, while the children of the forest are probably the Cherokee.

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EP
9/10/2014 06:27:41 am

OK, so basically The Chronicles of Narnia, got it.

Shane Sullivan
9/10/2014 06:51:35 am

Poorly written? Are you kidding me? You're not looking forward to reading about the "histories of the ancient archaeologies"?

Clint Knapp
9/10/2014 07:22:27 am

The Little People are a common theme in native lore. The Cherokee variant are the Yunwi Tsunsdi':
http://www.native-languages.org/morelegends/yunwi-tsunsdi.htm

Essentially, yes, dwarves and fairies. Mostly benevolent, but prone to harshly punishing aggression or disrespect.

A bit further west and more in my general locale, we find the same sort of beings portrayed as the Paissa of Sauk and Fox lore; mischievous tricksters, but mostly harmless unless provoked:
http://www.native-languages.org/paissa.htm

The Other J.
9/11/2014 12:08:37 am

"Poorly written? Are you kidding me? You're not looking forward to reading about the 'histories of the ancient archaeologies'?"

If The Chronicles of Narnia are a thinly-veiled allegory for the New Testament, I'm betting The Histories of the Ancient Archaeologies are a thinly-veiled allegory for the histories of the ancient archaeologies.

Duke of URL
9/10/2014 06:27:10 am

"The Ginn language was a language of Mother Nature and was kept hidden in the forest."
Wonder whether it was translated using Gordons or Beefeaters?

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PaulN. link
9/10/2014 12:40:00 pm

No, he did it with his spear and 'Magic' helmet. Or was it a golden helmet and magic goggles with spirit guide. Either way, for that natural effect you can't beat "Magic Mushrooms", cause they are 'Organic' (or was that orgasmic).

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Mandalore
9/10/2014 07:02:28 am

The language of the Ginn was hidden in the forest? The Djinn are beings of smokeless fire; it seems dangerous. I don't think Smokey would approve.

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EP
9/10/2014 07:08:39 am

Given that we're talking about a self-published book sold out of an anarchist hippie coop cafe, I'm pretty sure the only bear whose approval they seek is Tokey :)

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Scott Hamilton
9/10/2014 01:07:22 pm

It's been kinda fun over the last few years watching the few nuts-n-bolts UFO believers left coalesce around the idea that aliens are deeply, deeply, concerned about nuclear weapons. It's an old idea, first broached in books written in the 1950s. For example, in Is Another World Watching? author Gerald Heard developed the idea pretty far, claiming that the first underwater nuclear test had the capability of tipping Earth over, which might have detrimental effects on Mars, where the aliens lived. Also atomic bombs cause sunspots, and our Sun might explode at any time, so the aliens wanted us to stop detonating them. It was silly stuff, but the current version of "Aliens are after our nukes" has even less of a rationale for why the aliens would care.

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EP
9/10/2014 01:23:21 pm

Also, atomic bombs are what Xenu used to explode all them Thetans

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spookyparadigm
9/10/2014 02:05:50 pm

I listened to Stanton Friedman on The Paracast recently. He sounded nearly obsessed with the space/atomic age of the 1940s-1960s, before it all started to come unraveled. Jason has talked about the idea of viewing the Victorians as supermen. This wasn't that far off.

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Jason Colavito link
9/10/2014 02:32:29 pm

I think as we move farther away from the Space Age, it's becoming more mythical. It doesn't hurt that it was also the childhood (or immediately preceding their childhood) for a lot of the researchers in their 50s, 60s, and 70s, and therefore almost automatically the Golden Age when everything was wonderful.

The Other J.
9/11/2014 12:01:42 am

Is The Paracast still mostly insufferable self-promotion? Haven't tuned in for years.

spookyparadigm
9/11/2014 01:26:43 am

Jason: For Friedman, it isn't his childhood so much (though there is that, see below) as his professional life. Friedman was involved in that industry, famously in his retelling in working on an atomic rocket engine. The interview was on August 3 if you are interested. You get the feeling he felt betrayed by not continuing in the industry, and of science and technology not following up on the engineer dreams of the atomic and space age, that we didn't build Project Orion atomic spacecruisers. His hate for SETI, which is more on display in this interview than I've ever heard it and I've heard him speak (Friedman was quite affable and curious when we had an accidental dinner once after the Roswell UFO festival, which is why I found the interview disappointingly harsh), also takes on a shade of envy, of the sort of space science along with probes and such that got greater attention after interest in the Cold War driven manned space missions waned. I actually think there are major critiques of SETI, but not that its silly because UFOs.

Your childhood comment is interesting in Friedman's case. I hadn't really thought about his age before, but yes, he was a child during WWII, becoming an adult in the mid-1950s. I don't think that necessarily explains Roswell entirely or some of his other notions, but it certainly puts certain things in perspective. His claim that the powerful radars at White Sands may have caused the crash. His being the strongest proponent of the "UFOs arrived because we blew up nuclear bombs." That there was a war between saucers and the Air Force, which is why there were so many plane crashes in the 1950s (and not because it was a period of incredibly rapid technological change, before air safety, or much safety period, was fetishized to how we prioritize today).

Where I guess I could be harsh, is that I hadn't realized Friedman's age when he went over to UFOs as a career. I've always sort of thought of him as an old man, which of course is stupid. He was in his early 30s when he switched. As Jim Moseley tells it, Friedman, himself, and a handful of others started working the corporate lecture circuit in the later 1960s. This is the beginning of the height of public interest in UFOs. While they had more immediate reaction in the 1950s as a media phenomenon, if one looks back at the history, the most "serious" interest in UFOs, and by that I don't mean necessarily nuts-and-bolts, coincides nicely with the height of the counterculture, and is bookmarked by the 1966 and 1973 media flaps, though the latter pushes interest through the rest of the 1970s in making UFOs a media item again. This period when Friedman becomes a professional UFO speaker matches the big transition for space funding, and atomic-based space science had already been on the wane. Mid-30s is a bit too early for a midlife crisis, but ...

spookyparadigm
9/11/2014 01:38:11 am

Other J: Depends on what you mean.

If you are referring to the ads for Steinberg's son's novel, or the handful of products Gene does ads for (including for UFO magazine etc), that's all still there, and I actually don't mind those ads. They're inoffensive and quaint. The tea party ads the network puts on are of course awful, but I've gotten pretty good at scooting by those on my ipod if I don't want a dose of weird stupid.

If you mean self-promotion of the hosts, yeah O'Brien is still pushing his efforts and book etc.. But he's just generally insufferable in my opinion. I liked the original Paracast for distinct things Steinberg and Biedny brought. Gene brings tons of experience and knowledge about the UFO cultural scene, while Biedny brought a tendency to tear apart guests who deserved it. He got weirder with time with long paranormal personal experience narrations, but he was still worth listening to as a hostile but critical host. O'Brien just brings a bit of obnoxiousness or arrogance (I'm torn as to which to call it, but I can best sum it up as argument not through information as much as loud insistence, though he's not always like that, usually its just with people or causes he's close to), and a raft of fairly ridiculous guests that he defends even though they are either massively overhyped or just ridiculous.

If you mean self-promotion by guests, I'm not too bothered by that. I listen to The Paracast and Binnall of America not because I agree with the guests but because in the long interview context, you can get a lot out of one of these guests in a relatively easy fashion. Short interviews (either actual short interviews, or long "interviews" that are mostly the host or callers) basically become book plugs (The Paranormal Podcast at 20 minutes of content is very much a glad hand book promotion venue). But in an hour and half or more of content, you actually get into a conversation. So these shows allow me to get some basics of what a particular "researcher" is on about, without consuming a shitty book or some such. I'll do so if I must, but for most of these speakers there isn't much point.

spookyparadigm
9/11/2014 01:41:59 am

And I should note, I once liked O'Brien's first book, The Mysterious Valley. I didn't believe much in it, but I thought O'Brien was being honest. I thought it was a good story if you took it just that way. And as someone teaching and wanting to write about paranormal culture, the reflexive nature of the book was useful.

I still think O'Brien is honest, but I think he's got a low BS threshold, or rather, a warped one in terms of who and what he'll believe. This started to become clear in his second book, but ever more so with The Paracast.

The Other J.
9/11/2014 02:24:15 am

Re: The Paracast -- Awesome answer

My self-promotion comment was mainly in regard to your second paragraph, self-promotion by the hosts. I fell off the podcast after Biedny left, mainly because I missed his belligerent questioning. I think O'Brien's low BS threshold played a role in that as well.

Speaking of which, of the three podcasts you mentioned, Binnall of America is one I'll still tune in to. Some of his topics are just fascinating, like the meat-eating horses. And his year-end specials with Greg Bishop are always fun for listening to two kind of happily grouchy curmudgeons complain about the problems with UFOlogy.

I heard an interview with Tim Binnall a few years ago when he talked about his interviewing style, and he let in on a tic he has. If you hear something that sounds bizarre, and he just keeps saying "wow," that's a tell that he thinks he's either being fed a line, or the guest really believes what's being said and may be a bit deluded. He asks good questions, but doesn't see his role as being a hostile inquisitor, so he resorts to "wow" mode when his inner Tim Binnall is going "waitaminnit."

I've only given the Paranormal Podcast a few listens. The host seems more into a soft-sell of the guest's ideas, and from what I heard, doesn't ask as interesting of questions as Binnall or Bishop on Radio Misterioso. But I might give his interview with Whitley Strieber a go.

So I haven't been in the comments for a few months. This project you're working on -- is it related to podcasts like these? If it is, I'd be happy to help. I used to teach an argument course on conspiracy theories, and became pretty familiar with them. Another good one is Out There Radio. The trajectory of that podcast was interesting -- two college students and a grad student who were just into the weird, and the gradually became more skeptical over time, largely as a result of what they learned through their podcast and how the topics were fed by current events (like 9/11 truthers).

spookyparadigm
9/11/2014 02:56:23 am

No, the project isn't close to this at all. At one time, I was considering something on paranormal and conspiracy culture, with a heavy emphasis on ufology. But while I still follow it to some degree, I think the things I would be best working on are elsewhere (somewhat related to the broad topic, but much more in my professional wheelhouse of archaeology and psuedoarchaeology). I largely listen to these shows now for personal interest, with occasional useful material popping up.

I've largely liked Binnall, and I've liked the minimalist interview style from the get go. I gave up on Tim for a bit because I found a number of his guests to just be awful people. Not so much bad interviews, though that could happen to. But (and I wrote this to Tim, we've since talked more positively, and I ended up being the guy who set in motion him getting in touch with repeat guest Sharon Hill), he had on some guests that were just ridiculous, and some that were horrible. On the ridiculous side, like you say, Tim has especially early on seen himself as being kind of a documenter of the weird, as well as explicitly wanting to follow in the footsteps of Art Bell. So guests like Joe Fex narrating his diplomatic encounter with a group of sasquatch.

But I was far more put off by some of Tim's more offensive guests. The one that drove me off for a time was the Columbine conspiracy guy (Zabel), one of the first in-your-face 'tragedy-worriers" I had ever encountered. He was selling an absurdly over-the-top conspiracy theory of mass mind control via HAARP-technology, satanic-like or evangelical (it gets confusing at points) rituals by the townspeople to sacrifice their children, etc.. This was bad enough until he made it clear that he "confronts" townspeople and relatives of victims with his allegations, presumably having learned nothing from Buzz Aldrin decking the moon hoax guy. Tim had him on, and then the guy disappeared and couldn't be contacted, and he became sort of legendary on the show. This strongly reminded me of Art Bell's showman ginning up of Mel's Hole or the time travel guy (Tantor?) but in a much more offensive way. He then had Zabel back on, and he was even worse than before (this is when I had started listening again).

Of course, now we're all familiar with "truthers" who go out of their way within hours to start attacking the victims of horrible crimes or tragedies such as Sandy Hook or the Boston Marathon attack, accusing the injured of not looking sufficiently in pain, or of the parents of slain children of not being sufficiently sad, and so on. These people are vile scum playing to suckers, and the last thing I want to do is listen to someone who wants to help promote them from obscurity.

Tim has changed his attitude on this, especially after the Boston attack, and that definitely helped bring me back on. He's still got some fairly bad guests, but I just don't listen. Given Jim Marrs going more fully and openly offensive in his conspiracy mongering, I do think it is problematic that Tim will likely have him on again as a season opener (as a tradition), but I can see why he's doing that, sort of.

I used to listen to Radio Misterioso in its early days. I stopped in part because I've never been a massive fan of Greg's interview style, and to be honest the production and quality came to annoy me. I loved his use of Criswell as the opener, the funky music, etc., but otherwise the "I'm taping this in my apartment with my notes on top of an old pizza box" audio aesthetic got old.

But really, I got tired of it because it had that same tendency to have ridiculous friends as guests or co-hosts, and the same petulant attitude I described above with O'Brien, of forthright and non-challenge-able political or scientific attitudes that often were extremely challenge-able, accompanied with often lazy speculation. It was in fact one of the Binnall/Bishop year reviews that I sent to Sharon Hill, noting how many of the stories they were speculating about had in fact been resolved in mundane ways weeks or months earlier. That combined with the increasing promotion of Bosley and his California-centric Edwardian conspiracy theory of everything, was enough. While I was never a big believer in their material, I thought that Bishop/Redfern/Tonnies and a few others were going to take over the mantle of ufology, of Keelian GenXers replacing all the Roswellian Boomers. Instead, UFOs are just being eaten alive by a pincer movement of political conspiracy theory on the one side, and ancient aliens on the other.

I don't know if I'm familiar with Out There Radio. I've heard of it. I kind of want to think I've listened to it once or twice, but I may be mistaking it for something else. While completely outside anything I'm working on, it does sound interesting.

The Other J.
9/11/2014 09:58:28 am

You were responsible for getting Binnall in touch with Sharon Hill? Thanks for doing that.

Like you, I'd fallen off the show after the Zabel thing, and didn't really come back until I saw Sharon Hill was a guest. I still don't listen regularly, but I listen to that one more than other paranormal-ish podcasts.

Same with Bishop -- his show is irregular and pretty Bosley-focused lately, but at least the last time I heard Bosley on, Bishop came right out and said I don't know if this is bullshit or not, but in any case, it could be a good story. What I miss is Adam Gorightly's show -- that's how I first came to Greg Bishop, and Radio Misterioso is a kind of low-rent version of the kookiness Gorightly was doing. But Gorightly is more focused on writing books now, becoming the documentor of the Illuminatus! period of American history, the Manson Family and Kerry Thornley's role in Lee Harvey Oswald's life.

One of the things Out There Radio did was a brilliant take-down of Alex Jones. The main host, Raymond Wiley, ended up writing a book about the Georgia Guidestones that debunked a lot of the mysticism and irrational fear around them. Then he did a master's degree and became more systematic and logical in his approach to weird topics. The other host, Joe McFall, was in grad school for computational linguistics when they started, and he was definitely the most incisive. But his wife passed away during childbirth, and he stepped away from doing the show after that. He had a decent job and wanted to focus on raising his baby. The other host, Austin Gandy, used to just did segments on the show, but took over McFall's spot when he left. Gandy studied comparative religion and wrote a thesis about paganism, or witchcraft -- something like that, maybe both. His big thing is finding stories of weird witchy or demon-like behavior from around the world and reporting them. He never takes the stories quite seriously, but he doesn't denigrate them. It's almost like an Onion approach.

They've only done a hand-full of shows in recent years, but it's my favorite of that genre. And it's really interesting to see how they first get interested in these fringe subjects, then start to touch the third rail, and instead of getting sucked in like many others, they start questioning what they're seeing, what they're doing, and they change tack.

spookyparadigm
9/11/2014 11:58:41 am

No, then I haven't listened to Out There, I think.

I wouldn't normally listen to Gorightly, but I believe he was the guest recently on Binnall on the Discordians, and I actually liked the show. It punctured some of the over-the-topness of the whole thing that had led me to avoid it as just performance art. I mean, that's what it is, but I am somewhat more interested (I also had a friend in grad school who was big into all of this, and was so annoying about it that it turned me off. Kind of like how Whedonites made me hate Firefly for a time through their excessive fandom).

Re: the Sharon Hill Binnall shows. So yeah, Sharon had been recently complaining that no woo-ists ever follow up on stories, that they just take the first mystery and let it fly. This is true of all media of course, but it is so much easier to make something "mysterious" if you just use initial reports. Within a day or two of this, I was listening to the Bishop/Binnall year-end review, and they were going on about story after story after story (ex. the Baltic "spaceship wreck") that Doubtful News had followed up on. I kept emailing her on my walk home (I listen to podcasts as I "commute" on foot) with "and they then went there" "and there"

So she criticized Tim's show in a DN post. Which Tim then noticed. And eventually they contacted and the show was set up. If you listen to the live show they eventually did, I called in and said hey. I never do that sort of thing, but it seemed appropriate. Also, I shit on ufology as folklore when you boil it down, but well yeah.

I'll be curious to see if Tim continues the tradition of a sort of yearly skeptical review, he hinted at such.

spookyparadigm
9/11/2014 12:01:03 pm

To be honest, I suspected that Tim would contact Sharon. It wasn't my intention exactly (I was less certain she would post about the show), but I thought he might, and I encouraged her to do the interview because Tim is a good podcaster.

The Other J.
9/11/2014 08:32:58 pm

I know Tim's had her on twice since last year, so it looks like it could become a regular thing. I don't listen when he has Jim Marrs or Stanton Friedman on, but if he continues to balance out such shows with people like Hill, that's a good sign. It's the only case I know of where the skeptical believer and a knowledgeable skeptic are having constructive dialog, and Tim has a chance to make that model grow.

(Gorightly makes EVERYTHING irreverent, which makes a lot of the topics he writes about more approachable. At least in interviews, that irreverence affords him some leeway, so he can actually dive a little deeper into a subject without coming off like a zealot. As far as I know he hasn't done this, but I think he'd be great for a history of the Zodiac killings.)

spookyparadigm
9/12/2014 08:03:59 am

I don't really like irreverent in this sort of context, as I actually want to learn something. That's been my issue with Discordianism when encountering it in the past, being treated to it being one big clever in-joke of Fnord. And I get why that is, fine, but that doesn't interest me.

Gorightly's interview on Binnall largely avoided the clever obfuscation, slight-of-hand, and mythmaking. He gave a basic history, and that was far more interesting.

spookyparadigm
9/12/2014 08:13:39 am

It's interesting that you mention not listening to Friedman on Binnall of America. I would agree. The downside to Tim's approach is also the upside: he lets the guest speak. For a guest interested in a conversation, that's great. For a guest that's completely new to me, that's great.

But for someone like Friedman, we all know what he wants to say, it will be the same talking points he always deploys. The more proactive question style on The Paracast actually pushed him to say things he didn't intend to say. The big one was that they pushed him on critiquing James Carrion, but there were other places where they got Stan to go beyond his talking points, and give a more raw interview instead of a version of one of his lectures. I thought that was interesting even if I don't buy what he's selling.

PS: I think my favorite Binnall interview has to be the Ouija board one. First, because it's a fantastic episode on a microhistory, an examination of larger American culture through a single point of reference. Great stuff. Second, it was the first time I started to sense Tim really pushing away from the community and models (aka Coast to Coast) that had acted as an early model. There are beliefs in occulture I'm willing to listen to though I think they're wrong. But there are a couple of buzzwords or memes that as soon as they get raised, I have a hard time not viewing the person as a fool or disturbed, including: chemtrails, trauma actors in false flags, any form of "hybrids/aliens" detected via video artifacts or other "anomalies", and ouija boards as dangerous.

J.A Dickey
9/12/2014 12:18:08 pm

"I listened to Stanton Friedman on The Paracast recently. He sounded nearly obsessed with the space/atomic age of the 1940s-1960s, before it all started to come unraveled. Jason has talked about the idea of viewing the Victorians as supermen. This wasn't that far off." (spookyparadigm)


There were twelve men who got to the moon, and there was a
generation of people who looked at the television signal from
our moon. As a generation, we are going to age and die, and
most likely not see more humans going to the Moon or even
traveling onto Mars. Space travel is becoming more remote and
distant, Stanton Friedman's lament is understandable, he is
well aware of our current day "high tech" that can make this all
possible, nothing is at all obtuse or mystical. The desire is not
there, nor the national focus. JFK's vision was fleeting & brief...

EP
9/10/2014 03:39:42 pm

Mars Sector 6:
“Owing to an atomic accident just recently in the USSR, a great amount of radioactivity in the shape of radio-active iodine, strontium 90, radio-active nitrogen and radio-active sodium have been released into the atmosphere of Terra.”

The Master Aetherius, from Venus:
“All forms of reception from Interplanetary sources will become a little more difficult during the next few weeks because of the foolish actions of Russia.
"They have not yet declared to the world as a whole, exactly what happened in one of their atomic research establishments. Neither have they declared how many people were killed there. Neither have they declared that they were really frightened by the tremendous release of radio-active materials from this particular establishment during the accident.
"Because this accident took place, we will most certainly have to use a tremendous amount of energy, which should be used in a very different way. We should not really have to expend this amount of energy clearing away dangerous radio-active clouds from the atmosphere of Terra.
"However, because of Divine Intervention, we are able to use enough energy in this direction to save about 17,000,000 lives, which otherwise would have been forced to vacate their physical bodies.
"Such were the far-reaching repercussions from this accident that we were given permission by the Lords of Karma to intervene! However, although we are at the moment intervening on behalf of Terra, in this direction, certain damage has already been done to large land and water masses!"

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Only Me
9/10/2014 08:41:46 pm

This is just like that other fruitcake, Billy Meier...the guy who's been in "contact" with beings from the Pleiades since 1975.

As of 1995, they've since corrected themselves, and insist they're from the Plejaran star system...beyond the Pleiades...in another dimension.

Yeah, we're supposed to believe these beneficent extraterrestrials are advising us on how to amend our self-destructive ways, but, they can't even get their home address right!

EP
9/11/2014 06:59:48 am

Fun Fact: One of the reasons the Pleiades keeps coming up as the home of the ETs is that it was briefly associated with the center of the cosmos by 19th century astronomers, thus making way into Mormon apologetics and some of the "channeled" religious texts.

BillUSA
9/10/2014 07:27:09 pm

<sarcasm alert>

Nyaaaah, you've all got it wrong.

The real reason ET's in their UFO's are after WMD's is because they want to get high on them like the alien did in "Mars Attacks".

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titus pullo
9/11/2014 02:32:21 am

I don't get the apollo capsule theory. The last apollo was launched in 75 (the Soyez/Apollo mission) and the program was over. There were many boilerplate apollo capsules used for water landing testing but honestly why five years after the program ended in the UK for gosh sakes. Makes no sense.

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FDR had polio!
9/11/2014 10:11:32 am

FDR had polio. I'm backing up the statement with
a rather reliable pair of links on order to be on topic.

http://harvardmagazine.com/2012/10/four-freedoms-park-honors-fdr-class-of-1904

http://www.fdrfourfreedomspark.org/news/entry/76-years-ago-today-march-of-dimes

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Only Me
9/11/2014 05:31:14 pm

Off-topic comment, Dickey.

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YES and NO
9/12/2014 11:47:23 am

JASON SAID THIS UP ABOVE...

"On the American Heroes Channel there was an hour giving Stanton Friedman free reign to proclaim the Roswell incident a genuine UFO crash, followed by Codes and Conspiracies, and then two more conspiracy shows, one asking whether Franklin Roosevelt really had polio. Over on the Science Channel, we have several hours of extraterrestrial shows tonight, including one on alien mummies, capped off last night with a new episode of The Unexplained Files, perhaps their most unbalanced and irresponsible yet."

THE EXACT CHERRY-PICK "and then two more conspiracy shows, one asking whether Franklin Roosevelt really had polio."

FDR had polio!
9/12/2014 11:54:21 am

^^^^^^^^^^^^

We almost had the a- bomb
during his presidency, and if
the Roswell incident is actually
based on the crash of a test
vehicle, our R&D was top notch.
Much of what HST did is something
that FDR might have done had he
lived longer. I am shocked that
they think he was perfectly healthy
but secretive about things. He had polio.
Jason did not review that lil ole show.
I have succumbed to FOX... i am now
sometimes looking at the live feeds
from UTOPIA when i am not looking at
FOX to see Gordon Ramsey or Cosmos.

Only Me
9/12/2014 05:17:19 pm

The actual article is "Unexplained Files Tells Us to Fear Nuclear-Obsessed UFOs". THAT is what the article discusses, not one line included in a paragraph highlighting the amount of conspiracy programing within certain time blocks.

As usual, you can't even stick to *that* cherry-picked topic. Now you're rambling on about Roswell, Utopia and FOX news. Why can't you offer something related to the main subject, as you did under the "Enlightenment Science" alias--consistently--as opposed to your hobby horses?

EP
9/12/2014 05:40:25 pm

. , you know there are avenues for getting one's writing self-published, right? Why impose it on those who clearly don't want to touch it with a 10ft pole?

the human mind
9/14/2014 07:02:05 am

I'm half wishing Jason had briefly reviewed the show he avoided.
Yes, its like a footnote's footnote, but its part of a trend. I've seen
several interesting conspiracy theories. One had poor Harding
poisoned by his wife, rather than a bad meal. Another delved into
how badly afflicted Woodrow Wilson was, and how controlling
his wife became as a result. Gigantism got linked to Abe Lincoln
and JFK's Addison's disease was hid from the public. All is often
fodder for the mill of the gods, all is now put under a scrutiny or
doubt? History and "American Heroes" are running out of topics?
Pardon me for being mindblewn, but this is on par with being a
flat-earther. "and then two more conspiracy shows, one asking whether Franklin Roosevelt really had polio." The public knew he
had polio, what FDR's better PR people did is make it seem less severe. His ability to be a POTUS health-wise was not an issue...

incapacitated

my take on Ufology
9/14/2014 07:11:38 am

There have been UFO reports that place them near our
nuclear power plants. This blog-post is not the first time
someone has delved into the motivation of the hypothetical
Extra-Terrestrial aliens and why they would be drawn to
something we have constructed. Most of the older reports
do not have a destructive vandalizing incident in tandem
with the ability of the UFO to hover over the plant. This is
unlike some of the UFO reports where people inside an automobile are on a lonely country road and their engine dies.
Assuming UFOs to be real and under the control of a sapient
being, it can be said the vast bulk of the reports do not have
hostile actions happening, only unusual visual occurrences.
There tends to be something up above in the sky that triggers
the sighting, and yes, these reports read like a hallucination.

J.A Dickey
9/14/2014 07:41:25 am

The Foo Fighters in 1942 may not have been ball lightning.
We had tested experimental vehicles five years later in the
Four Corners area as well as rocket designs. The Roswell
incident began with very fast radar blips. The plant in Japan
had a basic design that General Electric went with as IKE
was promoting Atoms For Peace. Unexplained Files is at
the very least feeding into the climate of cynicism and fear
the other very similar shows have recently brought into being.
I do not remember having the impression that Leonard Nimoy
was either uber-paranoid or expecting some sapient being
to invade us. IN SEARCH OF had a content at times similar
to ANCIENT ALIENs but with far less fear and distrust. Is this
generational and reflective of a peer group perspective and
social meme or is this a comment about our mass media?
Are boomers more trusting and less fearful, and more open
to bold ideas? Do millennials distrust other people more while
being less bigoted than their elders? Does today's worries
feed into our science and our politics? Yes, the Tobacco Lobby
for years hid the studies that connected cigarettes to lung cancer
as it created a lifestyle meme of fun fun fun things in tandem with
their product. E.F like A.A and A.U feed on linkage ideas, yes...
Marshall McLuhan 101 thought on the brain, what took radio a
few hours in late October of 1938 to do has taken our tv sets at
least several decades to do... prime an audience into a full panic.

Robert
9/12/2014 05:43:42 pm

The notion has always entertained me that extraterrestrials would waste their time checking out the obsolete technology we use. Same goes for most abduction and animal mutilation stories. They have no way to gain info than physical abductions and surgical procedures? They couldn't give the cows or people MRIs? And rather than dispose of the carcasses they leave the animals sliced up to be found and return the people with the chance they'll remember to tell their stories?

Reply
Only Me
9/12/2014 06:19:26 pm

Obviously, 1950s-1970s technology was "magical" to our ancient ancestors. The whole AAT story about aliens in prehistoric times sounds like a rip-off of Thundarr the Barbarian's version of Earth: "A world of savagery, super-science and sorcery." But the magic disappeared once time marched into the millennium.

We were expected to believe aliens utilized Flash Gordon style technology, a curious mixture of energy weapons and rocketry, back in the day. Now, to remain relevant, we have interdimensional travel through wormholes or portals, genetic manipulation and the jump start of all civilization.

Reply
EP
9/12/2014 06:22:00 pm

I think we should all watch Krogoth of Barbaria and smoke a peace pipe to set aside the animosity and negaitve energy, man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep65rr-9qjQ

Robert Hastings link
9/20/2014 06:46:01 am

Jason wrote: “I can’t offer a formal review of the episode [Are Aliens Attacking our Nuclear Arsenal?] because I don’t have the expertise to evaluate modern UFO claims.” Nevertheless, he quickly followed-up by calling the show “poor” and “dumb”.

As the leading researcher on UFO activity at nuclear weapons sites, I feel the need to comment. I have been pursuing documents and witness testimony relating to these cases since 1973 and have presented my findings at more than 500 U.S. colleges and universities, including Stanford, as well as at Oxford University in the UK.

CNN streamed my September 27, 2010 press conference in Washington D.C. at which seven U.S. Air Force veterans discussed their involvement in UFO incursions at ICBM sites and nuclear Weapons Storage Areas (WSAs). The full-length video may be viewed at http://www.ufohastings.com/.

The declassified U.S. government documents currently available, coupled with the testimony of more than 150 ex-military veterans who I have interviewed over the years, confirm beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of vastly superior aerial craft—piloted by persons or entities whose identity remains unknown—who have monitored and sometimes disrupted American nuclear weapons since the late 1940s. A small cross-section of those documents and witness affidavits may be read at http://www.ufohastings.com/documents.

Furthermore, documents and witness testimony emerging from Russia in the early 1990s, following the collapse of the Soviet Union, confirm that such incidents also occurred in the U.S.S.R. during the Cold War era.

Jason claims to be “extremely familiar” with three of these American and Soviet cases, which he listed (●) and commented on. I have inserted his remarks below, interspersed with my retorts:

• Malmstrom Air Force Base (1967), when UFOs supposedly shut down nuclear missiles. This story was on Ancient Aliens a couple of times, and skeptics have claim [sic] that the event was actually due to a completely non-alien electrical failure.

RH: Actually, there were two separate events, on March 16th and March 24th. Three of the four missile launch officers (Capt. Robert Salas, Col. Walter Figel, and Col. Frederick Meiwald) have confirmed bona fide UFO activity during the missile shutdowns. My comprehensive summary of these incidents, with audio-taped interviews, may be accessed at http://www.ufohastings.com/articles/the-echo-oscar-witch-hunt.

Corroborating the former/retired officers’ statements, Boeing engineer Robert Kaminski—who headed the technical investigation into the first event, at Echo Flight—states that “no technical explanation” for the full-flight (ten-missile) shutdown could be found. Kaminski’s written confirmation of this fact appears in the above-mentioned article. So much for the skeptics’ unfounded claims that a prosaic electrical failure caused the missiles to shut down.

Moreover, another former USAF officer, Capt. Robert Jamison, has sworn an affidavit saying that he and his missile targeting team were explicitly told that UFOs had caused the second full-flight shutdown, at Oscar Flight, prior to being released to the field to retarget the stricken missiles. That affidavit appears at http://www.ufohastings.com/documents.

Former launch officer Robert Salas has publicly discussed the Oscar incident for years, at various websites. His missile commander that day, now deceased Col. Fred Meiwald, has said on audio tape that Salas’ summarized the events “very accurately.” One may hear my conversation with Meiwald at http://www.ufohastings.com/articles/echo-flight-ufo-incident-not-unique.

Consequently, Jason, the individuals who were actually involved in the two events—sans one launch officer, Eric Carlson—have admitted to a UFO presence, reported by security guards, during the shutdowns. When I told Col. Figel that his missile commander, Carlson, denied knowing about UFO activity during the Echo Flight event, he responded incredulously, “…he was sitting right there, two feet away from me” when the event occurred. One may hear all of this on the tape of my interview with Figel at the “Witch Hunt” link mentioned above.

• Rendlesham Forest Incident (1980), a case that has been debunked over and over to the point that even the Fortean Times called Nick Pope dishonest for continuing to promote the story. The incident was the subject of a Sci-Fi (as Syfy was then known) documentary, also with Pope, and several episodes of Ancient Aliens, again featuring Pope.

RH: I have interviewed on audio and/or video tape over a dozen ex-USAF witnesses who were involved in the events at RAF Bentwaters and nearby Rendlesham Forest, including the two air traffic controllers—Ike Barker and Jim Carey—who were on duty that week. They tracked a UFO that cover

Reply
Robert Hastings link
9/20/2014 06:53:15 am

CONTINUATION:

RH: They tracked a UFO that covered 120 miles in 8 seconds, did an instantaneous right-angle turn, and briefly hovered outside the ATC tower. Barker told me that the object was an orange-colored sphere, about the size of an F-111 fighter-bomber, that appeared to have portholes around its equator.

I also interviewed Air Force security personnel posted at the Bentwaters Weapons Storage Area, who saw a spherical UFO maneuvering near the facility. All of the veterans’ remarks may be read at http://www.ufohastings.com/articles/beams-of-light.

Jason’s claim that Nick Pope has shamelessly hyped the Bentwaters/Rendlesham events is without merit. So Fortean Times says the incidents have been debunked. Whoopee! Did anyone affiliated with that website ever interview even one witness? No, they did not. Armchair UFO experts are a dime-a-dozen. So what’s new?

BTW, Jason, radar tracking data is scientific evidence, as is the radiation detected in the forest. The fact that those data have been classified does not change that. The anecdotal evidence provided by the various witnesses is the best that can be offered at the moment.

• Byelokoroviche, Ukraine (1982), when a UFO supposedly caused Soviet nuclear weapons to start their launch sequence, a claim first made on ABC News in 1995. The first version of the story made the UFO 2,900 feet wide (yet somehow unseen except by about four people) but said that just one missile had a signal light briefly light up for less than 15 seconds, indicating that a launch code had been entered; now the story has grown into a much more frighting [sic] myth of imminent nuclear catastrophe.

RH: I bought the transcript of the ABC News program from the network. Odd that you cite the show and then claim that only four persons saw the huge UFO. In the transcript, ABC reporter David Ensor says, “Every person we spoke to in Bylokoroviche said they saw a flying saucer on that day. They told us it was huge, about 900 feet in diameter.”

Moreover, four years ago, a number of the Soviet Army personnel involved in the incident went public. In June 2010, I was contacted by a Russian journalist, Inessa Kornienko, who was writing an article about the case. She and her colleagues utilized documents smuggled to the West by American investigative TV reporter George Knapp. In one official affidavit, Major Michael Kataman, who was responsible for the missiles' guidance systems, reported that the computer equipment and security systems had been disabled by a powerful [electromagnetic] pulse. He wrote that all of the control panels had lit up, indicating the missiles were preparing to launch toward their strategic targets.

Among other veterans, former Missile Division Chief Yuri Zolotukhin was interviewed by Kornienko’s team. He said, "I too was a witness to these events and also saw the UFO, but could not reveal what had happened to the sensitive equipment because I signed a non-disclosure document [designed to] protect state secrets."

Kornienko contacted me to ask about my interview with former USAF missile launch officer David Schuur, who described a very similar incident at Minot AFB, North Dakota, in 1966.

My summary of the Russian newspaper article may be read at http://www.ufohastings.com/articles/recent-russian-newspaper-article-discusses-ufo-incidents-at-soviet-and-american-nuclear-weapons-sites. In the original article, one former military witness, radio operator Vladimir Matveyev, estimated that a thousand soldiers and officers at the missile base saw the UFO, which was as large as “a five-story house”.

An article summarizing my interview with Schuur may be read at http://www.ufohastings.com/articles/launch-in-progress.

In short, Jason, you are clearly uninformed about these three incidents—and undoubtedly many more that I have investigated over the past 41 years—despite your claim to be “extremely familiar” with them. I have learned that persons with your hutzpah and strong biases are rarely willing to change their minds, so I merely post this information to be on the record. It’s also clear that others who have commented on this blog posting are equally convinced that their own uninformed opinions about UFOs are the final word on the subject.

So be it. I am busy working on a documentary film about my work and not willing to waste time sparring with you folks. While I may post a few additional comments, I have better things to do.

BTW, I was approached by the Raw TV productions group and asked to participate in the “Are Aliens Attacking our Nuclear Arsenal” program. I refused, just as I earlier refused to be involved with Ancient Aliens and 11 other such, ahem, documentaries on UFOs. In fact, I recently wrote a comment at another blog complimenting your critique of Hangar 1: The UFO Files, which sucked as badly as you said. And, yes, I declined that show’s offer too.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
9/20/2014 08:56:45 am

Robert, you have misunderstood a bit what I was going for. When I said I was familiar with the stories, I meant that I was familiar with them from their use on TV shows like these, not with the stories themselves. In fact, I have found very little factual information about the Malmstrom incident, for example, not written by UFO believers. UFO shows give highly condensed, highly inaccurate accounts.

Similarly, when I mentioned the four people who saw the Ukrainian UFO, I was going off of the presentation as given on the Unexplained Files, which never mentioned anything about everyone in town seeing the object. Again, the failure is on the part of the TV show.

Reply
EP
9/20/2014 07:53:46 pm

Jason, it's not always clear whether they are talking about the nearby town or the military base. If they were talking to people at the base, they would not be allowed to talk to just anyone, so four people is (more than) a reasonable number. Byelokoroviche is the name of the base. There are a few villages around, but none closer than a couple miles away. In poor visibility conditions, it is not impossible that *something* would have appeared to the base personnel but not to local residents.

Robert Hastings link
9/20/2014 09:47:29 am

Hi Jason,

You wrote: "In fact, I have found very little factual information about the Malmstrom incident, for example, not written by UFO believers."

Well, now you have a great deal of it to review. I would start with CNN's coverage of my press conference. The veterans speak for themselves and, with a couple of exceptions, one can hardly call them "believers". They were just at the wrong place at the wrong time and had a life-changing experience. Many more accounts appear in my Articles pages, all based on tape recorded interviews.

BTW, perhaps you don't realize it, but "UFO believer" is a prejudicial term; in response, I might call skeptics "UFO deniers", which is not fair in most cases. Persons such as myself are UFO advocates who have gathered and analyzed a great deal of data over the years. I do not "believe" anything at face value.

Now, to be sure, there are indeed true believers among ufology's camp--persons who will believe anything anyone says if it is spooky enough. But, by the same token, there are true believers in the skeptics' camp--those who will deny the validity of all UFO-related data, no matter the specifics, and will offer the most absurd explanations for the phenomenon, as reported by credible witnesses.

The late Dr. James McDonald, of the University of Arizona--one of the very few scientists to have actually studied UFOs--wrote:

“From time to time in the history of science, situations have arisen in which a problem of ultimately enormous importance went begging for adequate attention simply because that problem appeared to involve phenomena so far outside the current bounds of scientific knowledge that it was not even regarded as a legitimate subject of serious scientific concern. That is precisely the situation in which the UFO problem now lies. One of the principal results of my own recent intensive study of the UFO enigma is this: I have become convinced that the scientific community, not only in this country but throughout the world, has been casually ignoring as nonsense a matter of extraordinary scientific importance.”

—Dr. James E. McDonald
Senior Physicist, Institute of Atmospheric Physics
Professor of Meteorology

Reply
EP
9/20/2014 08:01:04 pm

Do you believe that it's aliens? Do you think it's a serious possibility that it's aliens?

Reply
Robert Hastings link
9/21/2014 06:26:45 am

Please read all of the documents and affidavits on my website's document page. Once you have done so, and can demonstrate to my satisfaction that you have done so, then we can discuss this subject.

http://www.ufohastings.com/documents

EP
9/21/2014 06:38:51 am

I'm not going to let you dictate what I should read before asking you a simple yes/no question. If you aren't willing to answer it, then you are obviously not worth taking seriously.

Robert Hastings link
9/21/2014 06:22:39 am

EP wrote: "There are a few villages around, but none closer than a couple miles away. In poor visibility conditions, it is not impossible that *something* would have appeared to the base personnel but not to local residents."

The English translation of the documents smuggled out of Russia by TV journalist George Knapp indicate that a number of Soviet Army personnel in nearby towns, returning to base, saw various objects in the sky that night. The towns of Perebrody, Usovo, Zhitomir, and Korosten are mentioned.

I have already provided a link to my article on the case, which incorporates statements made in 2010 by some of the base's personnel, as gathered by Russian journalists. Why don't you read it? Here it is again:

http://www.ufohastings.com/articles/recent-russian-newspaper-article-discusses-ufo-incidents-at-soviet-and-american-nuclear-weapons-sites

Reply
EP
9/21/2014 06:37:51 am

Could you link to Knapp's documents themselves? Nothing you linked seems to mention any of these other locations, some of which are really far away.

Also, if you cite anything related to UFOs from Russian media without independent corroboration, then LOL

Reply
Robert Hastings link
9/21/2014 06:43:56 am

I will ask George if I may post the six pages of translated material that he gave me last December. I know that he is writing a book on the case so he may decline my request. But I will ask.

Robert link
9/21/2014 06:52:28 am

EP wrote: "I'm not going to let you dictate what I should read before asking you a simple yes/no question. If you aren't willing to answer it, then you are obviously not worth taking seriously."

I understand that rampant speculation, usually based on one's biases, and almost always crippled by one's lack of knowledge about this or that subject, is the coin of the realm in the blogosphere. Which is why I don't participate much.

The ratio of researchers to garden-variety bloggers is about one-to-a million. I don't waste my time engaging in the pointless back-and-forth that you seem to think I am required to do. I could care less what you think about me or my work. BTW, your answer screams "I am too lazy to review declassified facts about UFOs."

Reply
EP
9/21/2014 07:03:42 am

If "lazy" is the only explanation you can think of, then you have no business researching anything. (How about "busy with other things", or "not interested enough in the topic", or "read it all before"?)

In the meantime, I asked you a simple yes/no question: Do you believe that it's aliens? You don't have to answer it if you don't want to, but your non-answer screams: "I have books to sell and don't want to be subjected to scrutiny in a context I do not control."

Serious, honest researchers don't hesitate to answer simple questions, especially when they are willing to write unsolicited lengthy posts. (Unsolicited does not mean unwelcome, in case you're looking for a reason to feel offended.)

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      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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